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Just recently got Shogun (as part of the TW: Eras package), and I must say that, despite its age, it looks as interesting as every other TW game I've played.
I've run through the tutorial a couple of times just to make sure I have the basics down, and now I'd like to start a serious campaign. What would you guys recommend as the "best" pick for a new player like me?
If you mean easy faction to start with,i would recommend Hojo, Uesugi or Shimazu.:bow:
Specialist290, I hope you enjoy STW as much as the rest of us have. You'll probably find the strategic part of the game much more limited than the later TW games, but once you get to the battlefield - that's where the magic starts.
If you want to start off easy, probably the Shimazu (green) is your best bet. They are off in a corner and have limited foes to contend with at the beginning. Hojo (purple) and Uesugi (blue) have a similar situation at the other end of the map with the added bonus of having rich provinces, but they are right next to each other and the aggressive Takeda (black). The deathtrap that is Shinano ($$$$) is also right there. Oh, how many samurai have died for the riches of Shinano? :shame:
It also depends on your style of playing. If you are an attacker, go with Shimazu, Hojo or Uesugi. If you are a turtler, Shimazu isn't the best faction to start with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Specialist290
Well, I wouldn't exactly say I have any real specific "style"--I simply try to adjust myself to the situation at hand. I do, however, play somewhat aggressively in general, which is something I'm certainly taking into account.
Thanks for the advice, all ~:) I'm certainly enjoying the game so far. Glad to see there's still a (relatively) active community even for a game this old.
Personally I have RTW and STW, and really prefer STW. It's old and the grapichs may not be... 'new'.. but for lots of reasons, for instance the ones stated in this thread (link), STW is the game I liked most from all games I ever played. ~:)
I'd say... start with Hojo! Place a large enough army in Musashi, Takeda will attack you there. Try to attack the Uesugi in Mutsu or the Takeda in Sagami... enjoy! ~:)
Good luck!
:bow:
I'll second the Hojo for your first campaign. They have rich lands which are reasonably defensible, and can construct castles for half the normal cost. In addition, they have access to lands that are even more rich, particularly the eastern provinces of the Uesugi clan. And finally, there is nearby (and strategically important) Shinano province--although you'll likely have fight at least 2-3 clans for the privilege of owning it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Drisos
Checking out the Sword Dojo makes me eager. My copy should arrive soon in the mailbox, can't wait! I will start as Hojo when I get it, following the advice given here :bow:
Im playing the Mongols-a really different kettle of onions.
But Ill also have a go at Hojo after what I ve read here. On holiday till the 8th Jan!
I've played Shimizu/Sengoku Jidai as my first campaign. They're in a great strategic position, I like their bonus of No-Dachi swordsmen, and they are more easy to convert to Christianity for both RP and game reasons you might want to do this.
How are the Hojo campaigns coming along?
I decided against expanding South West and invaded Takeda. After the initial snub, I had three emissaries in the Throne Room. Probably trying to pacify my expansionist plans. I accepted all.
I ve reached Swordsman and Warrior Monks in my troop upgrades.
Think I'm gonna start my Hojo campaign soon, Tony. Gotten used to the game first with my Shimazu campaign, got to Portuguese traders, so I could train those arquebus troops. Haven't used them yet, though.
The Shimazu clan is the best to start with for beginning generals. You have lots of heirs and a pretty save starting location. You only have to fear enemy forces from the east. :yes:
Here's an old Shimazu campaign tga ( I just converted to jpg).
https://img232.imageshack.us/img232/...og04dn2.th.jpg
1) Bypass the little island and plug Bungo(?) with a peasant unit and the rebels won't attack.
2) I think those are a lot Shinobi(s) to foil assassination attempts.
3) The rebels are a pain in the neck because if you deal with them first, the AI will send more reinforcements.
4) Oda died and Takeda inherited the land, I think. I've skirted the rebels and isolated Tamba.
Looking good, looking good. Thanks for the tips.
Though the battles rock, I still don't like Shogun's limited strategic options, so I'm kinda in between Shogun and M2TW now, hah hah.
I've never liked anything much that the MI expansion introduced into STW. The Mongol Campaign is pretty ficticious anyway, and the campaign itself is very dull if you play as the mongols, only being able to build watchtowers and border forts. The Hojo campaign is dull because you're controlling all provinces and are just trying to defend against the Mongol Invaders. The Mongol units are extremely overpowered, though almost everything is overpowered in MI, but especially the Mongol Heavy Cavalry and Mongol Horse Archers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Furze
Out of the new MI units, the Korean Skirmishers, the first javelin TW units, were my favourites. Then there were the Thunder Bombers, the predecessors of Naptha Throwers in MTW. Some of the units that could have been done without were the Battlefield Ninja which were the predecessors of Hashishin and Kensai which were one of the major fantasy units, but were quite fun for a while. :2thumbsup:
Yeah, I never cared for the Mongol campaign either - regardless if I was playing the Mongols or the Hojo. The different start dates are nice, though, and I admit I like that the build times (and costs) for structures are halved. Otherwise it takes an infernally long time to develop everything (at least to me, it does)! Still, I do agree that overall MI didn't really add a whole lot to the original game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
I know they're ridiculously unrealistic, but I confess I've had great fun with Kensai -- nothing like using one to carve a bloody path through the enemy. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
I think the usuegi are extremely good because of theryre low cost archers but not exactly noob friendly( to the TW series not the game its self) But continuing on an extremely good strategy with them is get some Yari Cavalry and some archers then attack in Winter/Fall Where there is a high chance for fog and when they get set up move your yari in front then move your archers to the side of the map get them to chase your yari to your archers and the have your archers take care of there units (unless cav)(but u dont have to worry to much in early game about cav) then have them pick off enemy units and since ur archers are outa their units LOS you can fire and not worry bout your archers.(to much) now in late game accept your invite to christains then make muskets not arbs to weak bu have a bunch ashguri stand infront of the muskets as they pound away at the enemy very usefull for taking out enemy cavarly these strategies work uptill hard mode then the enemy gets wise to it
I have lost countless archers there in my latest campagin for Japan(Uesuegi) Ive lost almost 16 battalions/hordes(80 men each) of heavy cav 100 or so yari ashguri and counltess Yari cavalry and Cavalry archersQuote:
Originally Posted by Gregoshi
Shinano is nasty. I usually always conquer some of the provinces surrounding it first before even thinking about going there. It's often impossible to hold once the AI stacks start coming from all directions.
This is from a post i made in the .com for the "War College" sticky:
It is rather long but might be worth it for new players (if you have the patience to go through it). I am planning to complete it as it was promised there and write the IIIrd part soon.
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Poles & Axies - Part I
As it has been hinted countless times before there are some povinces that are strategic goals and that usually "unlock" the door to occupy others far less strategic.
Generally speaking the status of a province as "strategic" is determined by:
a) the defensibility of the province.
b) the koku return at present and the koku return potential (ie the profit with all the upgrades/ports/trding posts/mines).
c) geographical importance ie how many other provinces the province borders and it's distance to a "bottleneck" (eg Wakasa, Iyo, Kawachi etc). This is very important as it maximises the territory one can keep with a minimal amount of garisson armies.
d) the development of the game at hand ie which teritorries factions control? which of these are accessible and how well are guarded? what troop producing facilities/centres exist in what provinces?
Obviously provinces that posess highly all of the listed properties/attributes rise in terms of strategic importance; ie a province with a river that acts as a single connector between others, produces plenty of koku and has been highly developed is an 100% (or very strong) pole. The more from this ideal a province deviates the less of a pole it is with such examples (as has been noted by King Haggard) Izu and Noto, and i would add also Hida and Osumi. Some teritorries (that is geographically related collections of provinces) have not very strong poles; in this case some provinces will develop to poles according to the style of play and game development. In this case the phrase "poles are not clearly defined" applies.
According to my theory, conquest should follow the occupation of these provinces that i term as "poles", which in turn enable the building of axies ie lines of power/communication between poles which provide secure occupation of all other "attendant lands" around the axis. Such communication is obviously better accomplished through ports. Following this as a rough priority conquest guide (sometimes destroying the enemy's resource or troop building centres takes priority eg Hojo is coming after you with the Geisha while you only have a famous tea-house! OR Shimazu is coming with hordes of high tech troops after your borders leaving his countless ports in his heartland undefended) should yield victory more steadily and with less snags in the way, as you'll find that once you firmly occupy the poles then you have a powerbase for expansion which puts the other clans into serious trouble.
Since there are clearly geographically defined areas whithin Japan which correspond to geo-socio-political distinctions of the period (and of the present day in many cases actually) that are represented more or less by the territory the clans occupy in the Sengoku (the arguments here apply equally to all other campaigns) starting positions.
Some territories have stronger poles than others ie their poles produce more money, are bottlenecks or closer to botllenecks and are more defensible; generally speaking these clans tend to do better (when all are starting with undeveloped provinces) eg the Shimazu tend to swallow Mori (that get misplaced somewhere else if not anihillated); as we'll see their poles are srtonger and more clearly defined than those of the Mori clan. The same happens with the Uesugi - Hojo pair; the Hojo tend to win the confrontation most of the time (if the player is not Takeda or Uesugi). The reason imo is that the Hojo (as we'll see) have stronger, more clearly defined poles.
I will present individually each of the territories/areas of Japan and their poles and axies and further expand on the usefulness of these concepts after the presentation.
Kinki (Central Japan): This is the area the Oda clan occupies initially. Poles are: Owari and Kawachi, with secondary poles Yamashiro and Omi. The area is clearly defined and easily defended, all the more so because of the rivers in its primary poles; holding on to Kawachi and Owari will almost certainly certify your lordship on the area. Furthermore it has economic potential and plenty of resources and attributes such as the emperor's palace, iron and sand in Iga and Omi, the Owari Ahigaru, the Iga Ninja and the Kii monks. The Oda Ai unfortunately goes for Yamashiro neglecting Kawachi which results in losing both.
Chugoku (Hiroshima Area): This is the area the Mori clan occupies initially. Poles are: Aki, Bitchu and to a lesser extent Mimasaka with secondary poles depending on the development of the particular game. Harima and Bingo are secondary poles that unfortunately have rather low defensibility and thus the player is forced to watch them actively throughout the game as they will be threatened generally with good prospects. Unfortunately they are the ones that are economically viable as well. This in my opinion is what makes the initial Mori position even more dire than it is ie their economically important provinces are along a large (4 provinces!) border and are of low defensibility. This sucks-in large amounts of defensive troops (as the border is usually threatened by two different opponents) that prevents expansion as it reduces the koku available for building and maintaining an "offensive" army. The obvious resource advantage of iron and sand in almost all provinces is off-set by cash availability for the "native" clan. This is why Mori has to make for Kawachi and/or Aki asap or accept a deal with the Portuguese and start building ports (&trading posts) litteraly everywhere.
Kyushu (Southern Japan): This is the Shimazu/Imagawa clan occupied southernmost island of Japan. Poles are: Chikugo and Satsuma with secondary poles Hizen and Chikuzen. Satsuma besides giving its fine No-dachi borders with Osumi, Hyuga and Higo ie all the eastern part of the island - the only disadvantage is its low income; Chikugo apart from being the most rice productive province in the island AND the most defensible has a similar position to Satsuma in the west side. Chikuzen and Hizen are listed due to their riches (port and riceoutput), it is not by accident that the Imagawa can subdue or hold indefinitely against the Shimazu if succesful defence of these is carried out. Anyone with views in Kyushu should take these (Chikugo, Chikuzen, Hizen) out first as his contenstant will lose all the economic advantage and will in return get a bunch of provinces that are demanding in garisson but that result at a loss for it (due to upkeep costs).
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Ok, so here goes the second part which concerns north-east and norh-west Japan. A few introductory lines: Central-North Japan is significantly more rich than southern (Kyushu, Shikoku and Chugoku); stable domination in this entire area or in most of it usually means that you are 75% Shogun. Provinces here are naturally rich (Echigo, Dewa, Mutsu, Kozuke, Hitachi, Musashi, Kai and Shinano are very to extremely wealthy) and also are numerically much less than the ones found in Hiroshima, Shikoku, Kyushu and Kinki areas and thus the dominant clan here makes usually its way southwards faster with more advanced troops unless the southern/central clans have the money (based on port/post trade & cathedral as the viable answer) and means (good troops and guns) to stop them on their tracks and have a fair chance.
Poles and Axies Part II
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Tokai Area (Central-east Japan): This is the area extending North of the Oda territories and is occupied by the Uesugi, Imagawa and Takeda initially; it includes Shinano, Mikawa, Totomi, Suruga, and Kai; Mino may be considered as part of this area or of the Kinki (Oda) area since despite having iron and sand and being relatively defensible, its low output and many approaches mean that is better secured once the economy wheels are turning sufficiently. Musashi is a province that belongs to Kanto (North-Eastern Japan); nonetheless it plays a significant part in Tokai as well since it is such a strong pole that effectively acts as one in the Tokai area as well. The other pole of the area is Mikawa (and not Shinano!). Kai is a secondary pole. Mikawa, despite its low income suggests that your southern flank is secured; the river also makes sure that the province can be easily defended. Holding on to Mikawa and Kai is advantageous, holding on Mikawa and Musashi means almost victory.
The area is seemingly dominated by the presence of Shinano; which according to my definition should be strong a pole: it is quite defensible, it has iron and sand, fine cavalry, not so bad rice output... despite appearances though and counter to intuition as many experienced players have found already and stated in many guides, threads and miniguides, Shinano is not worth taking unless the intending conqueror holds half of its adjacent provinces at least. This is because Shinano is (one of) the least "bottleneck" province(s) in the map bordering with land all around; this drops the "polarity" dramatically according to the number of adjacent provinces that belong to rival clans. The more adjacent provinces you own the more Shinano is a pole; the less, the less it is.
Usually the winning combination comes from the east; ie whoever has Mikawa, Totomi, Suruga, Kai and/or Musashi can take and keep Shinano with an economy of force and effort. This turns Shinano to a virtually very strong pole; the disadvantage is that this condition is fluid ie if someone is pushing you back or a clan reappears then Shinano's status might be reversed again.
The reason for this is that Shinano is very prone to invasion from multiple opponents; this overruns its position advantage, defensibility, income and cavalry bonus as the position cannot be easily secured and thus safely developed (unless you like to see all the hard saved koku you spent on that horse Dojo wiped out by the various Takeda's, Uesugi's, Imagawa's or Hojo's); once you defended succesfully against one opponent another will spring as a mushroom. The usual pattern is that the first opponent will weaken you significantly while the more prudent/patient that was developing all the time you two were fighting, will smack you at that point.
Once you get though the aformentioned provinces then Shinano becomes the almost-great advantage it appears: instead of defending 5 provinces individually; you just make sure you have a large appropriate stack in Shinano that "covers" Musashi, Kai, Suruga, Totomi and Mikawa. This is the reason why taking Shinano works well for some time for the Imagawa at the beginning of the game; it "covers" their core territories and provides economical defence. The mistake the Ai does is to use it as an expansion point and attacks usually Echigo or Musashi. This is not such a bad move in it self, it happens though quite early usually (and while there is the Takeda around that find an opportunity) and thus the Imagawa are spread thin, breaking their "balance" and being unable to hold onto their new acquisition AND to Shinano: chaos ensues usually as other "opportunists" join in, typically the Takeda. The other mistake the Imagawa AI does is not to pay attention in Mikawa that is Imagawa's strongest card. Totomi is a very very susceptible place to develop unless you hold Shinano and have a good income from, say, holding on to the rich Kuyshu provinces. Don't let the archer bonus fool you - it works for the early game as it saves you the cost to go for the famous archery dojo, but it isn't a long term reliability unless you get Musashi and Kai at least.
Trying to occupy the provinces west of Shinano, in order to capture it does not fare half as well as trying with the ones in the east; this is because these are less numerically (3 = Etchu, Hida, Echigo) and also because the strong clear poles there are Echigo and Kaga from which only Echigo makes contact and that does usually result in a "weak" and unreliable holding of the province. This is why the Uesugi are much better off holding on to Echigo, Dewa and Mutsu and targeting Musashi and then Shimosa before faring south, rather than hitting Shinano as they often do.
The Takeda usually fare well as long as they hold Aki (Chugoku's most powerful pole - fairly easy against a weak Mori army which gives plenty of chances for large kills and honour levels to your elite Aki samurai) which can feed their north territories with good quality troops. The Takeda game seems so difficult in the North simply because all their provinces there are very weak poles: Kai, the best of them, is a secondary pole at most and provides very little security. This is why it works so well to make a strong army in Aki and keep moderate garrisons in Kai and Sagami as well as "ally" with the Hojo in order to make them keep a small garisson in Musashi. Do anything possible to let them get their guard down and then move your army in Musashi in two turns from Aki; the Hojo Ai does the mistake of fighting useless wars with the Uesugi and over garrissons Shimotsuke more often than not which is welcoming as they cannot reinforce Musashi at the time of your attack. As many stated before me, Musashi not Shinano is the way forward for the Takeda. After this you can play cat and mouse with the Hojo until you have taken Shimosa (which spells their doom) or concentrate on Imagawa and Shinano.
Kanto plain (North-East Japan): Well this is the area occupied by the Hojo and it is the best in the game from a polarity of provinces point of view, as it has three, potentially four adjacent strong poles. These are obviously Musashi and Shimosa closely followed by Kazusa and Hitachi.
Clearly Shimosa and Kazusa may develop to probably the safest military centres in the map and with the addition of ports in them and in Musashi-Hitachi (that will increase your income anyway) make the Kanto the best area to be/have (if you wish to safeguard against port raids then build a port in Musashi and in Hitachi and keep stacks there throughout the game). The relative disadvantage of Hojo comes later in the game as someone might have conquered all Kyushu, Chugoku and Kinki and will be coming at you with all his might, but usually it is of no concern as the Kanto holder will reach Kinki faster be it controled by the AI or a player. If not, the Hojo or whoever else dominates are at least able to put a very gallant resistance which with trade and guns can result minimum to a stalemate.
It is a mistake to start developing Hitachi right away - that might lead in risky, cold war style, dead locks if Uesugi does the same in Mutsu: ie both clans pile up stack after stack in these two provinces without being able to move it from (justified) fear of attack and pillage of their main facilities from the other, that will eventually happen when all these deadly high tech stacks are unleashed inevitably towards each other. Usually pillaging from both sides occurs as the armies are very big with lots of reinforcements and the result quite difficult to fortell or ensure.
Hitachi is a very viable option once Mutsu, Dewa and most importantly Echigo (Uesugi's strongest pole) have fallen; then you can start making that precious armoury.
I find that the "If its roots are left behind any tree will grow again" advisor quote is particularly applicable to the Hojo because of their lands; no matter how many times you take Hitachi or Kozuke they'll come back and take them and grow again. This is because their core of Musashi, Shimosa, Kasuza is one strong pole that needs to be broken systematically rather than by winning battles on a border line that will never stay still. Conversely if you are the Hojo all you have to do is defend Musashi (with your life) and turtle while waiting the opportunity that your foolish neighbours will weaken each other. Hojo can comfortably live even with the loss of, say Kozuke that can be recaptured when the opportunity arises; do not overstretch just to defend it, just make sure that Musashi has border forts and the right troops to defend against any invading army (that is ususally not a problem). The same goes for Hitachi to a certain degree if you lose it its not the end of the world. Beware of losing Musashi though (that usually attracts all the trouble as it is adjacent to Kai and more importantly Shinano): if you do lose it you are potentially one step in the grave.
Losing Musashi is a very severe blow from which the Hojo or the Kanto holder might never recover; losing (permanently) Musashi and Shimosa spells the end for Hojo, a new power has arrived and taken over their lands.
Hokoriku & Tohoku (Northwest Japan): This is the area occupied by the Uesugi; it stretches from the Kinki area (Etchizen, Kaga, Etchu, Noto) all the way north (Ecthigo, Mutsu, Dewa) including the island of Sado. Main poles are Echigo and Kaga with Mutsu and Dewa being secondary poles (due to their incredible income potential). The area has one clear pole that is in the clans holding right off the start: Echigo. Echigo has a great income, a one-bridge river, access to Shinano, Mutsu and Dewa and its back on the sea which makes it the perfect capital province for the Uesugi. Some advocate Sado as the main troop producing province due to the iron and sand and its isolation; in an (almost) unavoidable war with Hojo though, speed of troop movement will play an important role and Sado is at a disadvantage in that respect (1 turn difference + many turns & funds to build the required port). It also forces the player to keep a garisson there whenever someone approaches from Dewa or Noto - considering that you will be keeping one in Echigo anyway due to the income and the solidity it provides to your borders/territories, it is a waste of resources. Last but not least a battle for Sado will be fought in the open while in Echigo will be fought in the all familiar bridge choke point.
Shinano as i explained previously is a risk for the Uesugi all the more so because the Hojo are waiting to hit while you are fighting Imagawa and/or Takeda or both. Hida is together with Izu and Noto and Osumi one of these provinces that deserve very little attention. Your goal on the south west should be Kaga that has a decent income, facilities ready for use and the monk bonus. Kaga is relatively isolated from other places of interest in the sense that there are no other polar provinces around it except itself; this means that potential aggressors such as Mori and Oda in certain occasions are simply waisting their time and this is good for you: keep defending and producing monks and other troops and let them give you some extra honour with their ashigaru armies. A port in Echigo and in Kaga would make for a very strong axis that will serve you well.
Once Kaga is set up (or even before that) concentrate on the real enemy, which is Hojo and take him out once and for all. Don't fight hardcore battles in Mutsu and Dewa, let him overstretch his forces (making that all the more necessary with a few shinobies) while you firmly occupy Kozuke and pave the way for an extra "special" stack to attack Musashi. After Musashi falls Hojo is easy pickings, take out Shimosa as well and he is completely doomed; you'll see that his territories will fall like paper castles. In that case (much as in the case of the Hojo once they take out Uesugi) the other clans in the area are off the race: you have the resources to wage the long war that leads in founding the shogunate. Your real opponents now rest to the south.
Great post, excetchzebe1! Very informative; and as you said, new players would probably find it quite useful. :thumbsup: Perhaps this should be stickied?
Great post excetchzebel.
Archers and cavalry, my friend, archers and cavalry. I usally have 4 or 5 archers 2-3 infantry and 3 cavalry hopefully 2 of them ca. Put your men on the hill up front left. Your archers can fire down almost from the beginning of the fight, and the enemy will spend some time repositioning themselves. You can rout any ashi's with arrows alone. Their archers usually get stuck on the bottom of the cliff and stay their trying to shoot. Their infantry should be so weakened by your archers that when your infantry engage them and your cavalry flank them they will rout. only need one cav for this usally, depends on composition of enemy army though. Your other cav should chase the archers into that valley by the cliff. When the enemy inf is routed chase it with one cave, close the bottleneck of the valley with your infantry and kill the enemy taisho with two cav units. The rout and die on the spears of your infantry. 600 killed 20-40 lost is the norm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
After Mino this is the best defensive province in the game, it leaves all the bridge provinces in the dust.
Thanks Martok and Sasaki,
it would be an honor sticky-ing it and would also provide very good motivation for me to finally edit out all those misprints ~D
This question does get asked a lot.
ok, i've edited various minor misprints and i will add the IIIrd part (here and at the .com) that will concern expansion avenues and long term strategy relative to the use of the "pole" concept, sometime whithin the next two weeks.
I am also considering to add map references/examples to the text and perhaps a "polarity" histogram over an axonometric view of the map, if i get the chance, since the forums here allow for that without the use of links.
Sounds good. :2thumbsup:
(guide for MORI Clan)
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simple there buddisht monks are cheaper and there better VS yari samurai/yari calavry
and ashagru. they maybe weak to archers but the computer never makes that many.
as for the reason why locaiton wise.
that area around there has iron deposite for master armorys for oyur future badass monks and tenasi.
as for shinano..
make a group of yari samuari and kenasi.. 1 or 2 kenasi and have them hide in the numbers of yari samuari. why you ask? simple consider the yari samuari a huge sheild in which to block the arrows from your tenasi.
if you started out as mori and you manage to get to shinano by that time you should be able to build kenasi and afford there support cost. so its matter of lots of yari samuari to hide the kenasi amogst the yari samuari as you run up the hill (rember there an elite unit meanign they would rather die then run)..
just remeber after the kenasi make contact you've just won the map.. rally the routing guys and await the deaths of the kenasi on the top of the hill.
if they do die.(by this time if your ammo setting is set to realism not unlimited) the numbers and morale would have shift so much your yari samuari just have to run up . take oyur taiso too.. cause there out of arrows.
congrats minnano is yours.
as for early strategy its simple monks... show your love for budism and way of the samuari the way of the warrior and jsut go straight out monks and archers. after oyu build sword dojo to the point ot make kenasi (perferably over an iron deposit so you have have a golden palace,master swordsmith,and master armory there you set jsut make kenasi here 1 or 2 at a time.. too expesive other wise. other provinces golden palace-and buddist temple complex for 2 morale. depend on provinces.
put the monks under the command of your heir or taiso.
go forth and conquer japan and send christianty back to the shores of europe where it should have stayed and died.
Mori was too my favourite clan, but have a lot of problems for a newbie:
1. Like all the southerness (or westerness) clans of STW, Mori will advance conquering the SW part and you can feel powerful, but is a false position, the North-Eastern clans like Hojo and Uesugi grow to a fantastic level and you always will be in vastly inferior numbers using all the richness of your half Japan.
2. Have a bad strategical position, not so bad like Oda but worst than most of the clans, in the middle of two emergents powers.
3. The agriculture of Chugoku, and in genereal the southwestern half, isn't specially profitable.
4. The warrior monks, wich are the native and elite troops of the Mori, are expensive and difficult of to develop, contrary to for example the No-Dachi of Shimazu.
Of course have a lot of advantages but i will say only following to Bonfire that there is a crucial advantage on the iron mines of Chugoku. Develop the commerce trade wich give a sure economical base (ports first and then agriculture, and the dutch better than portuguese of course) and a few but highly quality troops.
All in all as i say before, Mori is not for newbies, better is Shimazu and Hojo-Uesugi. Oda, Takeda and Imagawa are very very hard.
I know that anybody is reading this forum in these times, and that this is phantom thread, but i wanted remember all times. ~:handball:
Maybe a ghost thread but still interesting for newbie to get a few ideas.
For my first STW campaign I chose.. the red ones. I cannot get that much into it as I am used to RTW's graphics. But it has kept my interest for a lot longer than I thought it would. :yes:
Mori? awww, they don't own a lot of money at first, (compared to Hojo, Uesugi)
thip, any specific questions, things that are going wrong?
If you use search, or just look into old threads, you'll easily find lots of basic information of beginners. If you have specific questions, ask here. ;) :book:
hmm, I'm going to reply to the part of this thread about Shinano, (a bit late, but since the thread got bumped ... :P ..) I always loved Uesugi for that region, because it would garantee many enemies attacking it. I usually didn't have trouble keeping it, and killed hundreds, sometimes over thousand when they were foolish enough to try again. The ongoing attacks of Takeda, Imagawa and sometimes Oda made sure I could keep their armies limited by simply defending Shinano once a year or so, such an easy way to kill off their ability to grow stronger. ~:)
I preferably used loads of archers. usually around 10. and a few heavy units (ys, naginata) and a few cavalry. ~:) of course, archers run out of arrows, but coming down from such a mountain they beat anything, anyway.
Edit:
@thip:
If you want help on how to play campaigns: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=56338
It's full of links to campaign stories. Reading some will help a lot I think! People have written detailed stories about their campaigns, so..
If you want help on battles.. hmm.. just describe how you're acting and how the enemy is acting and how and why you are losing (or winning!).
a few tips.. make lots of samurai archers and yari samurai. try to keep balance between them. (army of 2 sa, 2 ys, etc) when defending, use more archers then normal, when attacking, use more yari's. use your army as one, don't let a single unit attack, let all attack together. if you can, shoot the enemy as long as you can before engaging. (unless the enemy has more firepower!) alway try to be on high ground. and, always keep your general alive! if he dies, your men will have no morale.
That's a few veeery basic tips for a beginner playing the beginning of a campaign. ~:)
Enjoy, and feel free to ask! :bow:
Stay away from any clans that have provinces separated from each other, like Takeda. I remember the first time I played STW, and chose Takeda (I had recently watched the film Kagemusha) - I was defeated easily. Next game, I chose Hojo (and also set the difficulty level to easy), and took over the map.
So, I say Hojo is the best clan to start with. Rich provinces, and the reduced prices of castles make development far easier. Although you start off in (arguably) the hardest part of the map, surrounded by two clans (including the very aggressive Takeda clan who want your rich lands), you can easily defend your provinces and develop your army at the same time.
I think that the Shimazu clan are harder for a beginner. You should only play as Imagawa after you have beaten the game a couple of times - I find them the most enjoyable, but the hardest.
Well it depends really i've been playing for a while and i like using the mori but everyone has their own tastes
If you play in cutom battle mode play as the mongols boot up your max money to 99999 then go halves one half heavy cavalry and one half light cavalry and completely upgrade them it is so fun:2thumbsup:
to be honest, it's been a long time I haven't played... I just didn't found the game since I'm in europe... but it's TEKEDA POWER i swera you,ll kick asses! The problem is that you got a difficult position. so try to make as many allies as possible in order to prepare a good and sharp knife to trust them in their back... otherwise, they'll smash you soon...Quote:
Originally Posted by Specialist290
A hint is to make allies of your enemies but make sure you have a geisha house
(you need to have maxed out your ninja house and teahouse and possibly have built a tranquil garden) then you need to assassinate your enemy occasionally the enemy daimyo's forces will become yours but most of the time they will become rebels and ronin who are easy to destroy due to lack of good commanders.
Also if you wish to bribe an army but the general is to loyal to his leader assassinate him a new possibly more bribeable general will be put in power.
This takes a very long time though. I have forgotten the exact time it takes, but I've only ever managed to build a geisha house towards the end of the game, when there are maybe one or two factions left. However, I have never really prioritised this, so I suppose it wouldn't take a player too long to produce a geisha if he/she made it a priority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gehngis Khan Lord of Asia
For a new player, I think that avoiding the geisha would be a good move, as it would teach you about the other features in the game. If you want to obtain a geisha early on, you will need to be a very good defender, as you will not have enough of an army to do much in the way of conquering, and neither will you have the resources to train large defensive armies.
Rather than geishas, use ninjas to remove high valour enemy generals. They may not succeed as many times as a geisha, but they are easier and quicker to produce (4 ninjas in the time it takes to train one geisha, and they have fewer building requirements). Also, if an enemy decides to use a geisha on you, a few honourable ninja can be used to dispose of her.
Shinobi are fantastic counter-intelligence agents - make sure you have at least one in every province, and many around a high valour general to capture any ninjas the enemy may send to assassinate him. The best thing about them is that they increase loyalty, but unlike a garrison army, cost nothing to maintain!
Is this possible in STW? I have never tried as I did not know this could be done. If it can be done, it is a good idea - I never thought of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gehngis Khan Lord of Asia
Yes it is possible to bribe armies but heirs cannot be briebed for obvious reasons but only do it when you have enough money as higher rank generals or bigger armies cost more to bribe.
Good to know! You know, I've been playing this game for so many years, and never knew you could do this! I should give it a try at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gehngis Khan Lord of Asia
How do you go about doing this? I mean, do you drag your emissary on top of an army you want to bribe (the same way you would do so in MTW)?
yes it is just like in mtw, im suprised you didn't hit on it at least by accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
yeah thats how i found it
Thanks guys! I am a also little surprised that I hadn't discovered it by accident. It may be because I only tend to use emissaries at the beginning of the game, and stop once I am powerful enough to get by without diplomacy - I always found it a little pointless, as it didn't seem to stop the AI from breaking alliances. Maybe it delayed them a little.
Anyway, thanks for the help!
Yeah it does slow them down but it also gives you a protective force you can look to help for.Quote:
Originally Posted by mps247
I often broke alliances myself because i was expanding and had no room
Interesting to know. Thanks for your help!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gehngis Khan Lord of Asia
Its no problem.
By the way a good way to upgrade the skill of your ninjas is to take out emmisaries who have just visited you and low ranking rebel generals:yes: :skull:
"Although it does not mindfully keep guard
in the small mountain fields
the scarecrow does not stand in vain." -- Bukkoku Kokushi (1256-1316)
A little piece of strategy concealed in an old poem ~;)
I like that peom not many people realise the power of prose:book:
Great thread, some really interesting ideas on here. I found shimazu easy early on because of the natural defensive qualities of kyushu. With Mori I always tried to push up to Nagato then take the small Island as long as the rebels aren't too strong.
Biggest problem I found was that the computer was much quicker at forming alliances. I'd find everyone allied against me before my emissaries had even found a daimyo to ask :)
I always tried to take shinano as the drain on enemy troops was massive considering wha it took me to reinforce it. Generally two or three YS plus 3-4 SA to start off with. Add naginata as soon as you can and maybe stash a warrior monk or no dachi unit for fun. line up the archers along the top of the right hand cliff face. Use YS (and naginata) to hold off direct attacks while the archers do their business. If you have a daimyo then putting him in the valley draws the enemy troops in and your archers will cut them to pieces. Even if they do suvive and try to chase him up the hill you'll have had loads of time to move in some troops to attack them and the height bonus added to their exhaustion makes light work of them.
It is easier to just take Mutsu, dewa and echigo, then take Hitachi for a troop production facility and finlally take musashi to have 5k coming in a year before expenses.
how is that? simply use the ports (satsuma, hizen, aki) and your emissary is in the east in no time if you are one of the western clans. if you are in the east it's even more simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by Jef Costello
up to now in every campaign the other clans sent emissaries to ally themselves to me, so i didn't need much time travelling. only negative thing is that the emissary doesn't level up :D
Takeda/UEsegi/hojo are easy enough but Mori/shimazu/oda the daimyo can be hard to find at first.
I found Hojo to be the easiest. Nice starting position and wealthy provinces. Oda is hard, especially with all those rebel warrior monks milling about. I remember taking one province and all the nearby garrisons ganged up on me and attacked. I did quite will defending with all ashigaru and archers. I was quite proud of myself after winning! Oda is fun if you can get into it!
Oda indeed is fun, becuse also you have no "edge" of the map secured and you have to (for most of teh game) play with a serious balance between the two fronts the clan has to maintain.
:bow:
Oh but they do! I trained one up to level 4 just for s@%^$ and giggles once.Quote:
only negative thing is that the emissary doesn't level up
On topic: Hojo or Uesugi.
i meant when you can't arrange alliances or stuff with him because you are already allied to everyone and haven't got the money (as we talk about the beginning of the game) you can't level him. or is there sth i don't know? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai
Iirc he can level up by making bribes, no? Also kazusa in the northeast has a bonus for emissaries.
the bribe thing is what i tried to exclude but didn't finish writing, seems i was quite tired yesterday evening :D
Quite so. Sometimes, it makes things move quicker by bribing. I mostly bribe rebel armies especially ones that have a higher honor Taisho. When a rebel army has withstood several assaults from an opposing clan, and it's Taisho has gained several levels, I'll step in and offer a bribe before successive assaults annihilate him. Sometimes they go for it, sometimes not, depending on how many troops he has left and the honor level of my emissary. I've picked up my share of 3 and 4 honor Taisho's that way........Quote:
Iirc he can level up by making bribes, no?
There is nothing wrong with bribing. It was common custom during the period rather to pressure or bribe smaller clans and vassals of other Clans to join your forces.
Bribing is very expensive and it can be a bit risky. I've successully bribed a unit only to see it disappear without a fight (maybe a bug). I find it's usually only worth bribing smaller armies which means you really need to reinforce it when you bribe armies.
Of course, bribing is usually for when you have an excess of koku. I've never seen an army I've bribed 'disappear without a fight.' And yes, sometimes you need to reinforce one especially if there are still enemy stacks in the province.
I tried bribeing once late in the game when there were two rebel stacks in a province. I bribed one of them then let the two stacks fight in auto-calc because the one I bribed was smaller. I then moved into the province afterward and defeated what was left of the rebels. Mabey dumb and a waste of money but I wanted to see what would happen.
I don't know what happened to it, I only bribed them because it was a 4 star general available for about 2k :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai
Usually if a unit that is the target of a bribe seems to disappear, it has been destroyed after moving out of your visual range. If the unit is destroyed before the emissary can offer, it seems as if nothing happened. This has happened to me when trying to bribe 4-stars in central Japan while sweeping west; during that turn, the target moves out of visual range, is attacked, and destroyed (or the general is killed).
Bribing 4-star gens can be a very smart move--particularly if your clan is one of those with crappy leaders (or you are in a period when its good leaders have not yet arrived, or have already passed). I only bribe rebels though, usually with small stacks; rival clan generals are too expensive.
Well I've played all of the Total War Games and this one without a doubt sucks the worst. I started the campain game as Shimazu and you get screwed not matter what you do. Before all is said and done everyone declares war on you and stops trading with you and kills all of the hostages. That leaves you without any infrastructue and in financial ruin. It's without a doubt the most ridiculous Total War I've ever owned. I can't believe you have to pay your own Ninja that you've bought and trained to do a service for you. If you haven't played the game you will not know what I'm talking about. I just don't see how anyone could win this game! It's fun for a while but when your money goes your done, the end. The best I can figure out is that the powers that be want you to play the multi player game online and not play Single Player because no way to win. I was within 3 provinces of winning and just said to hell with it and quit. I've been playing strategic games for alot of years and this is without a doubt crazy...so do not plan on winning unless someone comes up with a money fix or cheat.
You should be telling the truth to newbees. They will never win this campaign. It sucks...the only good thing about Shogun 2 is castles can be defended outside of that it's a no win situation....
Hello Royce,
it seems your comments are for Shogun 2. If that is the case you better post them in the Tea House, the forum for S2:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forum...?312-Tea-House
In case you refer to STW, i have played many many camps as well as most other people and the game is absolutely winnable.
Although i haven't bought S2 yet the same appears to be true as many people already posted their screenshots of them winning the camp.
So the new game is actually difficult... well this looks promising for a change...
Apparently some folks aren't used to losing:laugh4:Quote:
So the new game is actually difficult
Have played Mtw 2 and mods Europa Barbarorum 2 and Stainless SteelI like the map set up of these games is Shogun a similar type of map setup ?
Maps in Shogun I are "Risk" style:
https://www.google.com/search?source...w=1920&bih=937
Samurai Warlords is a mod that adapts MTW map style to STW, along with improved unit stats.
I think best clans to start with are Shimazu followed by the Uesugi, due to their good starting position, rich lands plus the very good bonuses they get.