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It's official: BXL tops A'dam
I have been to Brussels over Christmas and had a truly great time. I saw La Traviata in the 'Mint' Opera, went to the Leon Spilliaert exposition in the Royal Art Museum, had fresh oysters with white wine on Grand Market. It truly hurts me to admit this, but I am afraid there is no way around it: Brussels beats Amsterdam for atmosphere, architectural beauty (both modern and classical), food, drinks (I had three blonde Leffes with a superb steak at the famous restaurant De Ultieme Hallucinatie yesterday night), public transport, nightlife, manners, stylishness, the works. And most important of all, Brussels is more relaxed than Amsterdam. Congratulations, Belgium! The Adrian II stamp of approval makes it official: Brussels is now the superior destination.
:thumbsup:
This has been a public service announcement on behalf of Adrian II ®
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Adrian II
...(I had three blonde Leffes with a superb steak ...
This has been a public service announcement on behalf of Adrian II ®
You rock! :thrasher:
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Vladimir
I have been known to rock occasionally, yes. But this week I left the rocking to Verdi who did a much better job of it. To get in the mood I had an aperitif at the Café Métropole, which isn't half as posh as it looks and twice as nice. Apart from the superb fittings and trimmings, there are signatures, sketches and menu-card doodles of Toscanini, Sarah Bernhard, Arthur Rubinstein behind little glass plates on the walls.
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Re : It's official: BXL tops A'dam
Ah, Belgium...Europe's unknown cultural powerhouse and the EU's secret WMD in the struggle for global cultural domination.
It beats Italy in architectural beauty, Germany in beers, Amsterdam in atmosphere, Vienna in music, France in gastronomy, comic books and fashion, and everybody in the fine arts.
And then they want to split the place up. :no:
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Re: Re : It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
And then they want to split the place up. :no:
The joke is that they can't! The Bruxellois/Brusselaars will not allow it.
Since you are a French speaker, I have a suggestion. I picked up some books by Xavier Hanotte (attention, c'est les Wallons!) who writes pretty good polars. The first book by Hanotte I read was De secrètes injustices and I was immediately taken by his melancholy flic Dussart. This time round I bought, among others, Manière noire . This is the cover text -- it show you why BXL will never be split by the way:
Voici un polar ethnologique - découverte de la Belgique avec ses diversités culturelles et linguistiques - dans lequel l'intrigue policière n'est qu'un prétexte à un exercice littéraire. L’inspecteur de police wallon Barthélemy Dussert est un drôle d’animal ! Traducteur d’un obscur poète rosbif - le britannique Wilfred Owen - et amateur d’une langue à coucher dehors - le tchèque - il mène une enquête bien mystérieuse. Épaulé d’une coéquipière flamande et pianiste, Katrien Verhaert, ce duo de choc est chargé de rouvrir le dossier, non élucidé et classé depuis belle lurette d’un tueur de flics cultivé, donné pour mort depuis six ans. De Namur à Bruxelles en faisant un crochet par Prague, Xavier Hanotte nous invite à partager un fantastique voyage. Ce roman d'atmosphère, métaphysique et naturaliste, tient à la fois du suspense psychologique et du roman policier.
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Re: Re : It's official: BXL tops A'dam
It pleases me that you liked Brussels Adrian. And what exquisite taste you have. I never had to chance to really see Brussels, which is quite a pitty. Ofcourse I've been there, more then once ofcourse. But being there and experiencing it, is quite a bit different. However I'm planning to visit Brussels for real. Is it possible you might have any tips on what I should visit except for the usual and obvious things?
I can't believe that Brussels is that luch "better" than Amsterdam. I must admit that I've never been there, but still you make it almost sound that it is a cultural backwater. Which I find hard to believe.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
... and Rotterdam beats them both. ~:pimp:
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
Ya why have a nice cozy medieval centre if you can have endless grey concrete. Ok, the germans may have something to do with that.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Fragony
Ya why have a nice cozy medieval centre if you can have endless grey concrete. Ok, the germans may have something to do with that.
Just a reminder:
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Originally Posted by Basil Fawlty
DON'T MENTION THE WAR !!
Well, alot of Belgians don't like Brussels. They are afraid to go there, because they think it is a very dangerous city. It's a pity, and apparently it takes a foreigner to point out to us how much beauty there is in Brussels. And of course, there are some dangerous spots over there, but hey, there ain't no such thing as a perfectly safe big city.
Thank you Adrian II to remind me of the forgotten beauty of our capital :bow:
People always tend to complain about high crime rates, but we forget way too often what a georgeous city Brussels can be.
Didn't Napoleon call De Grote Markt/La Grand Place the biggest ballroom of europe?
For some reason, Brussels always make me think of one of our best artists ever, a true Belgian too: Jacques Brel.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by AndresTheCunning
For some reason, Brussels always make me think of one of our best artists ever, a true Belgian too: Jacques Brel.
A great artist indeed. :bow:
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by AndresTheCunning
Well, alot of Belgians don't like Brussels. They are afraid to go there, because they think it is a very dangerous city. It's a pity, and apparently it takes a foreigner to point out to us how much beauty there is in Brussels.
Oh, show me one metropole without 'disturbing' crime rates, 'out-of-control' youths and 'unmanageable' social problems. Welcome to the big city...
Ever the detective, I even did some film research in Brussels. I went around the Grand-Place to find out in which establishment (on the first floor) Roger Moore took Susannah York for an early-morning onion soup in That Lucky Touch (1975). It turned out to be the Roy d'Espagne at Grand-Place No 1, famous for its Belgian cuisine and particularly its onion soup. I had some; I believe it gets its particular flavoure from the broken laurel leaves in it.
Alas, the chef wouldn't divulge the secret... ~:)
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Fragony
Ya why have a nice cozy medieval centre if you can have endless grey concrete. Ok, the germans may have something to do with that.
You suffer from the notorious and nefarious country bopkin syndrome (which, as AndresTheCunning proves, Belgians suffer too in regards to their village-on-steroids-capital), good sir. Only newbs who don't know jack about the Netherlands' (this includes Belgium) only city say that.
Wait, scratch that. Only people who know jack about cities in general say that. ~;)
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
Belgium Isn't part of the Netherlands anymore (thank god ~;)), it is however part of the low countries if that's what you mean.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
The state Kingdom of the Netherlands got that name because it originally encompassed all the Low Countries. Hence... ~;)
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on
The state Kingdom of the Netherlands got that name because it originally encompassed all the Low Countries. Hence... ~;)
Not meaning to nitpick but it was the United Kingdom of the Netherlands (het Verenigd Koninkrijk der Nederlanden).
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on
The state Kingdom of the Netherlands got that name because it originally encompassed all the Low Countries. Hence... ~;)
And It indeed was the unied kingdom of the Netherlands.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
Indeed, but it's the name Netherlands that interests me. And, before you come along with the argument that the Republic also used the term, the Union of Utrecht's original hope was to get all the Low Countries on its side.
But this is nitpicking. So let's ditch the semantics and get back to explaining why Rotterdam wins and your hamlets don't. ~D
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
You crazy lowlanders and your funny wooden shoes. :grin:
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on
So let's ditch the semantics and get back to explaining why Rotterdam wins and your hamlets don't. ~D
Let's ditch the city bashing, too. Instead, why don't you explain to us what makes Rotterdam the best city in the world? :balloon2:
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
imo Belgium has only 2 nice places. Brugge and the Ardennes, but then it's hard to find nice places here in Holland. Cant really think of something, Limburg maybe, and Twente here, but everything else is build up and modern.
Rotterdam is the worst, our German friends destroyed everything which might have been nice and now it's all modern and no atmosphere.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
Gentlemen, the Frontroom is the realm of Love, Peace and Understanding. Let's stop bashing each other's favourites and promote our own, in the same way others promote their favourite beverage in the beer thread.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
I don't promote my own ... I haven't even started about Groningen yet ~D
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Re : Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Stig
imo Belgium has only 2 nice places. Brugge and the Ardennes
Only two nice places in Belgium? No way:
Bruges - it's so gorgeous I can't walk it's streets without tears in my eyes.
Ghent - apparantly the most 'Flemish' of all it's cities, I have yet to see it but I'll make sure I will.
Antwerp - nice! More cityesque than than the much smaller other Flemish towns. At it's best a great blend between the charm of those small towns and the grandeur of a proper city.
Ypres - weird but interesting place, the Middle-ages meets a Hollywood movie set. The whole city was destroyed in WWI, then rebuild. It felt the way somebody suffering from extreme paranoia must feel, as if everything around you appears real, but is not, yet everyboy else goes about their daily business pretending nothing is wrong.
Bruxelles - well Adrian covered it. Underrated. It used to be thought of as a failed city: a charming Flemish town that tried too hard to imitate Paris, failed miserably in that and consequently now has neither the grandeur of Paris nor the charming atmosphere of a northern trading town anymore.
But the place has improved a lot. The influence of the EU, OTAN and other international institutions has given the place that necessary cosmopolitan flair. It's a wealthy city again too, the buildings are well kept, there's a market for the more refined things in life, there's an eye for elegance in the streets and cafes. A proper capital.
And, not every second person you meet is a close-minded crypto-facist like in Antwerp or a narrow-minded loser like in Liège or Charleroi. Maybe you are right, Adrian, and the Bruxellois/Brusselaars will save Belgium in the end.
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Re: Re : Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
And, not every second person you meet is a close-minded crypto-facist like in Antwerp or a narrow-minded loser like in Liège or Charleroi. Maybe you are right, Adrian, and the Bruxellois/Brusselaars will save Belgium in the end.
Very well-informed post, as usual, Louis VI the Fat. :bow:
Ironically, the thought that Brussels would preserve the Belgian nation occurred to me over the years as I spoke to many of the (minority) Flemish intellectuals in Brussels like philosopher Dieter Lesage, writer Koen Peeters and choreographer Anne Teresa De Keersmaeker. These Dutch-speakers don't want anything to do with the Flemish 'identity politics' inspired by Antwerp. They have found new allies in the Wallish elite, and together they will support an 'independent' Brussels as a cosmopolitan centre.
It is these people who are (re)creating the new Brussels together with Maghrebine immigrants and intellectuals from all over the world. They are quite a force in Belgium, and a growing one. In the end (or so one hopes) Brussels will no longer be ruled by the divisive politics of the two linguistic communities (i.e. by Flemish peasants and Wallish Lumpenproletariat) -- it will, in turn, rule Belgium and help it integrate into Europe and expand globally.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
[sigh] I suppose with this write up, the Eurostar, and my new carbon friendly no fly regime, the Assassins will simply have to take a weekend break to Brussels now?
Hitherto I have only been on business, but, a few mad taxi drivers aside, it seems a very civilised place. And unlike SOME cities I could mention cough Paris cough they seem to be willing to at least give points for trying to speak French.
OT but is Wilfred Owen considered an obscure poet then? Fair enough I suppose, after all I couldn't name any Belgian poets without the help of Google, but he's a firm fixture in the school curriculum here. Or he was, back in the days when kids learned things in school, and all the policemen were 6'6", and England won test matches, and....
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on
You suffer from the notorious and nefarious country bopkin syndrome (which, as AndresTheCunning proves, Belgians suffer too in regards to their village-on-steroids-capital), good sir. Only newbs who don't know jack about the Netherlands' (this includes Belgium) only city say that.
Wait, scratch that. Only people who know jack about cities in general say that. ~;)
What's so great about it, the architecture has the charm of a pregnant spider, nightlife is boring as hell and far too stretched out. I liked going to Parkzicht, or was that The Hague, been a while :beam:
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Rotterdam is the worst, our German friends destroyed everything which might have been nice and now it's all modern and no atmosphere.
You see, this is what we call a failure when it concerns city knowledge. Instead of your oversized villages and hamlets, those provincial towns you call 'capital' like Amsterdam, Utrecht, Den Haag, Antwerpen or even Brussel, Rotterdam is a real city -- the only one of the Benelux.
It has a real city center -- not that every other town has, but a real one with skyscrapers and modern architecture. You know, like modern cities, not like five hundred years ago. What makes all your tiny towns fail in regards to Rotterdam is that they lack a skyline, except the odd building they managed to build ten miles outside of the city core.
But of course, this is taste. You're country bopkins, and I'm a metropolitan, of course ~D But to each his own ~;)
What doesn't fall under that category, however, is the labelling of Rotterdam as "soulless", "charmless", or another of such fine generalizations.
You see, anyone saying such a thing about Rotterdam clearly doesn't know jack about the city; doesn't know jack about the people living there; doesn't know jack about the things there are to do; doesn't know jack about the city culture; doesn't know jack of the city past a fleeting glimpse of the city core; doesn't know...
Enfin, need I continue? It may appear as if I'm a hypocrite by saying this, but remember that I am arguing taste above. I am saying I find "cities" like Brussel or Amsterdam to have the atmosphere of nothing more than tiny villages, instead of that of a world city. Unlike you, I am providing my opinion, based on what I know well -- instead of trying to present my ill-concieved opinion of the life in these "cities" (sorry ~;)) as fact.
Last but not least... Rotterdam is the most important city of the European Union. Game over. ~:pimp:
P.S. If my debating style is un-Frontroomish, feel free to delete and warn me for it. I know it's far more suited to Backroom discussions.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
Baba I suggest you come over to Twente (where I come from) and visit the real small villages. They are no-where near Amsterdam, Brussel or even The Hague (tho that isn't a city, doesn't have the rights). To me all of Rotterdam looks like the Groninger Museum ... well maybe not that bad but it just lacks atmosphere, just how I would say that New York doesn't have atmosphere, like the Docklands in London don't have atmosphere, while the City does. For me Rotterdam just lacks that city-ness which makes the city nice to me. I'm from the countryside, it's not like I want to stay there, but if possible I want to affoid the Randstad, give me the countryside, I prefer the small villages here, I like the fact that I had to cycle 8 km to school everyday, and you still had to go back then, I even like the language they speak here, tho it can be irritating when talking to "Hollanders" (everyone west of the IJssel).
When I think of a city, I don't think of New York and anything else with far more then 5 million inhabitants, when I say "city" I say: Prague, Vienna, Rome, London, even Amsterdam or things like York, Brugge and stuff.
And Brussel is the most important city in the EU
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
As I said... to each his own.
But I live smack dab in the middle of the bloody Bible Belt, on Goeree-Overflakkee, as rural as it gets (though you can usually find me in glorious Rotje Knor), and the core of our village looks almost exactly the same as the core of Amsterdam save perhaps the height of the buildings (in Amsterdam they're marginally higher... wow).
I just find that most Dutchmen -- that is, those not from Rotterdam -- view the concept of "city" exactly like they did five centuries ago... yawn. Real cities are Rome, Istanbul, NYC, Paris (though everybody knows it's crackin' in Paris outside of the city core! ~D), Miami, and yes, Rotterdam... that's where it's up. Amsterdam, Utrecht -- anything in the Benelux not Rotterdam... it just looks like a freakin' village! Get me outta here and back to the urban environment!
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And Brussel is the most important city in the EU
For political reasons, maybe... economically (but not only that!), I fear Rotterdam is simply the EU's most important city by quite a margin -- all thanks to its harbor, the gates of Europe. 'Course, you could argue that that has little to do with the real city of Rotterdam (the Europoort is ten kilometers away at the least), but most of the riverboats are near the city core...
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Re : Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by English assassin
OT but is Wilfred Owen considered an obscure poet then?
Not obscure, but what is known about him over here is I presume limited to this one single poem 'Dolce et Decorum est'.
I read it in Ypres, where it adornes a full wall in a WWI museum in the former clothhall.
Why do you ask though? Should somebody have mentioned it, did I miss something in this thread?
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
Ah, well, you know as much about Owen as we do then.
Dussert is apparently a "Traducteur d’un obscur poète rosbif - le britannique Wilfred Owen" hence the question.
BTW I struggled with un drôle d’animal. With the aid of google I think an (idiomatic but old fashioned) translation would be "a queer fish", is that right?
Maybe they should film him? There was a very good series of Maigret here in the 1980s and the repeats always make me want to visit France and make world-weary comments while sipping an armagnac in a corner cafe somewhere. Surely the honour of Belgian detectives needs to be rescued from Hercules Poirot and the ghastly Agatha Christie? European rapprochement through crime fiction, the EU has funded worse.
Annnyway..., back to la belle epoche, cocktails, and the opera.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on
But I live smack dab in the middle of the bloody Bible Belt, on Goeree-Overflakkee, as rural as it gets (though you can usually find me in glorious Rotje Knor), and the core of our village looks almost exactly the same as the core of Amsterdam save perhaps the height of the buildings (in Amsterdam they're marginally higher... wow).
I just find that most Dutchmen -- that is, those not from Rotterdam -- view the concept of "city" exactly like they did five centuries ago... yawn. Real cities are Rome, Istanbul, NYC, Paris (though everybody knows it's crackin' in Paris outside of the city core! ~D), Miami, and yes, Rotterdam... that's where it's up. Amsterdam, Utrecht -- anything in the Benelux not Rotterdam... it just looks like a freakin' village! Get me outta here and back to the urban environment!
I agree with your opinion of cities. They should be a center of modernization and not quaint little things that would look good in a museum.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by English assassin
Surely the honour of Belgian detectives needs to be rescued from Hercules Poirot and the ghastly Agatha Christie?
I don't think anyone on the continent has ever taken Agatha Christie seriously, even when she was writing about Britain.
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Re : Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by English assassin
Ah, well, you know as much about Owen as we do then.
Ah wait that's right, that character translated obscure English poets. I wouldn't call Owen obscure, but just like that guy who wrote 'In Flanders Fields' and who's name unfortunately eludes me for a moment, he's known for just one single poem. But both had the good fortune to write that poem about WWI though. Poems which are still read today because they encapsulate one of the most tragic moments in our history. Both would have been long forgotten, indeed would never have left the mists of obscurity were it not for a few brilliant lines of poetry they scribbled in the trenches.
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BTW I struggled with un drôle d’animal. With the aid of google I think an (idiomatic but old fashioned) translation would be "a queer fish", is that right?
I do not know the meaning of 'a queer fish'. Maybe it's an English expression I'm unfamiliar with, but it sounds like something an online translator would come up with. Me, I'd translate un 'drôle d’animal' as a 'funny creature'. Somebody who is odd, in a singular kind of way. You can also use it for things instead of persons. You'd use it to express a certain bemusement, used if you think someone or something is weird but you mean that not in an unsympathetic kind of way. Consider:
L’homme est un drôle d’animal social, n’est-ce pas? 'Man is a funny social creature, isn't he?' I.e., humans are peculiar in that they're social.
Ou: l'Union européenne est un drôle d'animal. 'The European Union is a funny creature'. (If creature can be used here) It emphasises the EU's singular and odd nature here.
Et: le Marsupilami est un drôle d'animal belge. Hehe. ~:)
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Adrian II
Let's ditch the city bashing, too. Instead, why don't you explain to us what makes Rotterdam the best city in the world? :balloon2:
I don't know. I hear the bombing improved it.
~;)
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
What so great about skylines, only blocks the sun. And a skyline you can build, everywhere. And they are... everywhere. Frankfurt or New York, looks the same to me, the same boring buildings. Oh it's high it's shiny yay. And no Rotterdam has no soul, it has tall buildings but not the energy of New York. It's just about nothing. And what city life, having to take cap when you change plans isn't metropolian, it's just a hassle.
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
I don't know. I hear the bombing improved it.
~;)
Rotterdam est une drôle de ville. :smug:
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
I don't know. I hear the bombing improved it.
~;)
You're German, you're not allowed to joke about that ~;p
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Fragony
What so great about skylines, only blocks the sun. And a skyline you can build, everywhere. And they are... everywhere. Frankfurt or New York, looks the same to me, the same boring buildings. Oh it's high it's shiny yay. And no Rotterdam has no soul, it has tall buildings but not the energy of New York. It's just about nothing. And what city life, having to take cap when you change plans isn't metropolian, it's just a hassle.
Once again: it's a matter of opinion. The mistake you're making is presenting yours as fact.
My opinion is that Amsterdam/Brussels/Antwerp/Utrecht = overestimated villages; your opinion is Rotterdam = soulless pile of glass and steel.
Thread over. Well, as far as I'm concerned ~D
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
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Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on
Once again: it's a matter of opinion. The mistake you're making is presenting yours as fact.
[/SIZE]
In a 'city x' tops them both kind of way huh :laugh4:
Not that I am so crazy about Amsterdam, disneyland for adults
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Re: It's official: BXL tops A'dam
I think I made a mistake in my initial post by comparing Brussels to Amsterdam, even though it was meant as a compliment to Brussels and certainly not as a sneer against my home town. If the negative posting doesn't stop, I suppose this thread has served its purpose and can be locked.
Yes, I must be growing mild in my old age. :yes:
