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About time an' all.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6215847.stmQuote:
Britain will settle its World War II debts to the US and Canada when it pays two final instalments before the close of 2006, the Treasury has said.
The payments of $83.25m (£42.5m) to the US and US$22.7m (£11.6m) to Canada are the last of 50 instalments since 1950.
The amount paid back is nearly double that loaned in 1945 and 1946.
A big thanks to our allies who helped us in our hour of need but 60 years!!! Yikes! ~:eek:
Are the Americans going to start reciprocating those so-called technology exchange programmes? Which we could have sold to cover those payments, but which we idiotically gave away free in the naive belief that the Americans would keep their end of the bargain? Quite apart from those loans and their terms which Churchill and Keynes took exception to, the later McMahon Act was a spectacular act of betrayal. How big a chunk of those loans was spent on developing our own nuclear programme which should by right have had reciprocal access to American research?Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Aside from that, an unadulterated thanks to the Commonwealth nations who helped us with scarcely a well-deserved complaint in our hour of need. The debt can never be repaid, except perhaps for Australia, who periodically extract their pound of flesh every time we play cricket. Rugby...football...tiddlywinks, etc.
Hey we beat you in WWII dont think we wont do it agian
Try beating them at cricket. It's the only thing that hurts them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
:idea2:
I refuse to have American sweat grace a game in which we can never understand. I mean for Gods sake where are the damn pads! Somone could bruise!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
No offense to our British friends, but maybe some American team could teach them to sweat. Their players seem to be lacking in that department lately...Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Contary to popular belif I have no friendsQuote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
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I need to sleep
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Your welcome. ~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
And remember after Dunkirk there was only 1 division in all of Britain fully armed. The one that had been late to the BEF party. The 1st Canadian division.
In 1919 most people estimated that Germany would have paid off it's reparation debt by 1984.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
They also never thought Hitler would take power.....Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
We should have forgiven that debt 30 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
I never realized there was any unforgiven debt left from WW2. Considering the small amount, and the fact it's our closest most dependable ally, I wonder why? Could it be that maybe the Brits insisted on paying it off as a point of pride and heartfelt obligation?
If we had forgiven the debt, they might have gotten uppity. It's good we made them pay every penny, with interest. I'm just shocked we didn't jack up our late fees ...Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Doubt the brit's would have allowed that 30 years ago. Though we didn't take much in the way of territorial claims after WWII. The least we could get was being an efficient banker for the allies. Still though the loans given to the european countries have payed for themselves time and time again, even including interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
oops, double posted somehow.
Yikes indeed , still at last you get your territory back in September , damn lucky you didn't hve an Ameican citizen as a President(wellnot strictly speaking) , or you would have lost it in perpetuity(wherever that is , it might be next to downtabackofdasofa , since you always lose territories and other interesting stuff down there)Quote:
A big thanks to our allies who helped us in our hour of need but 60 years!!! Yikes!
Now BTW which September exactly would that be when you get you territory back ?:inquisitive:
Hmmmmm....STFS doesn't know about cricket and pads , though to be honest I thought you crowd would have given it up once they re-intoduced all day pub opening , I mean that was the only reason for cricket wasn't it , to get a pint when the pubs were closed .Quote:
I mean for Gods sake where are the damn pads! Somone could bruise!
According to BBC Radio 4 we still owe money from WW1!Quote:
If we had forgiven the debt, they might have gotten uppity. It's good we made them pay every penny, with interest. I'm just shocked we didn't jack up our late fees ...
About time. ;)
Yes, I read something about that. Apparently all of the debts from the First World War were put under a moratorium during the Depression which has still not been revoked. Nor have the debts been written off, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester
It seems that, with interest, the United Kingdom owes the USA something in the region of 12,000 billion dollars. :jawdrop:
Time to send round the bailiffs and repossess Tony Blair. That should settle it.
:wink:
This article:
UK WW1 debt
suggests that the UK defaulted on the loans after a 1 year moratorium in the 30's. This backs up the aphorism: "If you owe the back £5000 it is your problem, if you owe the bank £5 000 000 it is the banks problem."
I think it was the preconditions for the loans that made Churchill, Keynes, and anyone else British who was involved in the negotiations livid. Basically it was sell off the empire at a knocked-off rate or loans would not be forthcoming and we wouldn't be able to continue fighting the Germans. I can accept that as the price Britain needed to pay to hire mercenary help.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
What irks me is the various technology exchange programmes that always went on way - west across the Atlantic, with nothing coming back. If we had been as ruthless in looking after our self-interest and keeping down the opposition as FDR, we would have charged for those, whose value was estimated as being many times the loans we were actually given. Instead, we gave them away freely, in the belief that the Americans would reciprocate this as befitting the idea of "exchange". They didn't, of course. The McMahon Act was symbolic of this - our Tube Alloys project added their research to the Manhattan project, only for the Americans to block any sharing of their nuclear research with anyone else, including their allies who helped them get the bomb in the first place.
That's why assumptions that we should be forever grateful to the Americans for WW2 annoy me. We were thankful for the help, but my goodness they made sure we paid through the nose for it.
Perhaps what Churchill should have done is make peace with the Nazis after Dunkirk. By continuing the struggle he virtually ensured the destruction of the very empire he had vowed to preserve when he became PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Ah, but that was not the honourable thing to do.
This debt should have been dropped long, long ago, as was the case for nearly all other countries who owed money to America, such as the Soviet Union. But no, that would have meant that America would not have had the leverage for matters such as decolonialization.
So, if this debt was not cancelled, what did the United Kingdom gain from joining America in the latest Iraq War apart from 900 casualties?
Just shows what you get when you play the lap dog.
Down boy...
I highly doubt America has ever used the WW2 debt to force Britain into anything, especially not the Iraq war with the debt being so close to being repaid.. There are far better ways of getting what the US wants.
Britain has chosen to be America's special partner, and reaped the benefits and payed the consequences of that decision. Blame your own government, and dont be so bitter about paying back a debt. Thats a good thing. :yes:
Heck, we're still waiting for reimbursement from that runaway bonfire on the White House lawn back in 1814.~;)
And where did I say I was bitter about paying back the debt? Where did I even say that the debt was wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJager
The older I get, the more aware I become of generations, and one generation's obligations to another. The men who imposed that debt, and the men who agreed to incur it, should have, in my opinion, not saddled the next generation with that kind of obligation.
America should have done the american-style "right thing", and cancelled the debt after 20 years, so that the sins of the father were not visited on his sons, so to speak. Bankruptcy, re-inventing oneself, starting anew,unburdened - all features of yank citizenship. We should practice what we preach.
I don't mind our repaying the financial debt we owed America. It's the debt the US owed, as allies and partners, to the British of the same generation, that annoys me the most about that particular period. If the Americans, through choice, were never going to reciprocate the exchanges of technology, they should have offered to pay for it or gone it alone. Instead, they took all that we offered them, then put a block on any technology going back the other way (and there was plenty to hand). It's as though 2 people form a partnership to create an innovative and successful product, then one of them copyrights it and shuts the other out from subsequent profits.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
By 'tech exchange' I guess you mean, for example R.A.D.A.R., Enigma, and the like. Your assertion then is that the UK should have charged for the R&D on those, vesus giving them away to Allies, in light of the US's selling war-making equipment to Allies?
I see the point. I guess the only defense/explanation for that seeming inequity is to point to pre-7 Dec 1941 Congress preventing FDR from entering a Euro war. He had to "sell" that stuff in order to support UK at all.
There's also the post-war McMahon Act, which stopped the US from sharing its nuclear research (which we contributed to by shipping over the Tube Alloys team). There were a number of other things such as jet research, microwaves, etc. which our guys were rather miffed about late-war when they saw nothing was coming back the other way.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Yeah, that was a crazy time in the US, what with McCarthy, the Red Scare, the Rosenbergs, and all. I certainly grew up in those days, absolutely convinced that nuclear armageddon was only days away.
Sorry about that. But hey! We lent you Elvis! :laugh4:
p.s. Since the Dutch are getting interested in New York (New Amsterdam) maybe Brits would be interested in New London
Bleh. 60 years? That's fast for us. We are still paying out 2.5% pa on consol bonds that we issued to finance the little run in we had with Napoleon 200 years ago. Its cheaper than redeeming them, apparently.
And while we are on the subject, now that even the most paranoid would have to agree that the Napoleonic threat is well and truly over, can we hope for the final abolition of the temporary tax that was also introduced to finance that war, namely income tax? http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/history/taxhis1.htm
I loved this bit
Hurray for parliament. But, Oh, the perfidy:Quote:
Nicholas Vansittart was Chancellor when Napoleon was defeated. His inclination was to maintain some tax on income, but public sentiment and the opposition were against him. A year after Waterloo, income tax was repealed ‘with a thundering peal of applause’ and Parliament decided that all documents connected with it should be collected, cut into pieces and pulped.
That damned remembrancer, eh...Quote:
The critics were frustrated in the destruction of the records, unaware that duplicates had already been sent to the King’s Remembrancer.
Shame on you EA you know darn well that 'Grumpy' Gordon re~instates it every year with his budget speech.
Anyway they should bring back window tax. That'll sort the beggers out at KPMG. Have you seen their HQ? :laugh4:
RemembrancerQuote:
That damned remembrancer, eh...
Fascinating ancient job and ceremony.
Now of course, I'm inspired to see if the US is still paying "old" debts.Quote:
During the ceremony, a black and white cloth is spread out — it is from this the name Exchequer derives. In this ceremony, the City of London pays service for two pieces of land: The Moors near Bridgnorth in Shropshire for which the City must pay two knives, one blunt and one sharp; and a forge in Tweezer's Alley, just south of St. Clement's Dane, near the Strand in London, for which the City must pay six horseshoes and 61 nails.
Does this mean we can finally stop owing the USA favours and start acting British again?
I hear Somalia is up for grabs these days.
Sometimes I wonder why foreigners all think the British live in some sort of eccentric medieval theme park, and then I see stuff like this, and I think, well, fair enough.Quote:
Quote:
Remembrancer
Fascinating ancient job and ceremony.
Quote:
During the ceremony, a black and white cloth is spread out — it is from this the name Exchequer derives. In this ceremony, the City of London pays service for two pieces of land: The Moors near Bridgnorth in Shropshire for which the City must pay two knives, one blunt and one sharp; and a forge in Tweezer's Alley, just south of St. Clement's Dane, near the Strand in London, for which the City must pay six horseshoes and 61 nails.
Why, next, we'll be counting all the swans on the Thames and telling the Keeper of the Royal Swans, just so Liz knows how many she's got. http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/w...99/upping.html
Typically when someone is not getting their part of the deal they stop giving theirs, if you wanted your sink fixed you should have stopped paying rent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
I think it is pretty sweet to see a debt paid off, I think it means your buying this round! ~:cheers:
I remember the party we had when we made the last mortgage payment.~:cheers: :balloon2: :balloon2:
The UK can be so quaint sometimes. Just imagine these great career opportunities:
Clerk of the Green Cloth
Page of the Backstairs
Gentleman Usher of the Purple Rod
Oh, I'd so love to parade around in a scarlet robe with fur facings and an enormous wig on my head and be completely serious about it. Brilliant, got to love the British.
Looking to revisit those wild and wooly halcyon days of Britannic alpha male dominance? Sounds good to me, at least mainland Europe (especially France) would ease off on their anti-Americanism and revive the previously fashionable trend of despising the English...Quote:
Originally Posted by BDC
As Nappy used to say, "Perfidious Albion!"
no part of the payment was ever late.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Actually, three payments were deffered.
Well now that we don't owe America anything anymore will you be nice and come back to the fold?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petition to revoke the independence of the United States of America
Indeed. :laugh4:Quote:
Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
Divus MarkMcManus. It would be nice if the Yanks also got to see Rab C Nesbitt. Followed by Pobol y Cwm, accompanied by that wonderful tribute to the Welsh language TV channel "S4C makes me want to smoke crack". A singalong to the bestselling Super Furry Animals album "Mwng" to be arranged afterwards. Failing that, try International Velvet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall
Deffrwch Cymru cysglyd gwlad y gan,
Dwfn yw'r gwendid bychan yw y fflam
creulon yw'r cynhaeaf, ond per yw'r don
daw alaw'r alarch unig yn fy mron
Gwledd o fedd gynhyrfodd Cymraes swil
Pan darganfyddais gwir paradwys Rhyl
I remember that, funny stuff. I received a variation of that email during the 2000 recount episode, and the actual quote there was "your failure to elect a president" (at all)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall
Also "missing" from your version:
No offense intended, I just thought it was to funny to be left out :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Original email (I think)
Anyway, the USA response:
Source: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blrevocation4.htmQuote:
The Supreme Court of Florida has instructed me to post the following to ensure strict balance in these turbulent times.
DECLARATION OF ANNEXING THE BRITISH ISLES AS PART OF THE USA
To the imperialist British colonizers.
In the light of your indecision over joining a common European Currency, your dissatisfaction with the European Union, your bickering with European Governments and the fact that you already almost speak our language and refuse to speak any other European languages, you are to be annexed as a State of America. Your state code will be GB. Zip codes will be assigned to replace your old postal districts. The state capital will be Stratford-upon-Avon which is a lot prettier than London. Princess Diana will be declared a saint. You have already assimilated so much American culture that you are unlikely to notice the transition. To aid in the assimilation, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
1. Look up "aluminum" in any good American Dictionary. Check the spelling and pronunciation guide. We discovered it, we named it, you are mispronouncing it. Learn to live with it. You are, of course welcome to your idiosyncratic and illogical place-names such as Edinburgh, if you wanted it pronounced 'Eddinburra' you have spelled it that way in the first place. You will quit using words such as "fortnight". The correct term is "a two week period". You will learn words such as "credenza", "intern" and "chad".
2. There is no such thing as "UK English". UK English is the relic of a defunct colonialist power which attempted to impose British English linguistic superiority on a nation which has a higher number of English speakers.
3. Your film-makers should learn to distinguish the American and Canadian accents. American accents are not limited to redneck drawls or New York accents. Mainland Americans have more than enough accents to cope with in our own country, so all British dramas will now bear subtitles, especially those made in impenetrable dialects such as Scottish, Scouse or Geordie. To make life easier for mainland America, all British films and TV programs must use American vocabulary and accents; Scotch characters will wear plaid, Irish characters will have shamrocks on them, Welsh characters will not be used since we don't have Welsh Americans, and English characters will wear bowler hats and pinstripes.
4. The British film industry will no longer portray all Americans as cowboys, rednecks, trailer trash or Beverly Hills billionaires. Hollywood will continue to use "Mockney" and "Posh" British accents as this makes it easier for viewers to identify which characters are British. You can have Hugh Grant back. He's a lousy actor and we don't want him either. All British films will be made in Hollywood where the weather and scenery are better. Your film industry is already unable to make a halfway-decent film which doesn't contain a American in the starring role. All American characters should be 'good guys'.
5. You will learn your new national anthem "The Star Spangled Banner". It shall be sung every morning at kindergarten, high school, university and your places of work. Your Union Flag will be hung up any damn way we wish so stop bitching about it being upside down. If there was meant to be a right way up you should have made it simpler. All Union flags will be replaced by the Stars and Stripes over a 12 month period of time.
6. You should stop playing soccer and rugby. There is no need to have two games, one of which is confusingly like Football and one of which is called football but patently isn't real football. If it doesn't require 45 pounds of padding, it isn't football. You should also stop playing cricket. Americans can't understand the rules. If you insist on playing this game which is only played by former British colonies, you will introduce a simplified scoring system, timeouts, colored strips and cheerleaders to make it more interesting. Any match which takes longer than 90 minutes will be declared a draw.
7. In films, as in real life, we decide who the bad guys are. The bad guys are those guys who don't do as we tell them. They are also the guys who attract the biggest audiences into movie theaters. You will cease using the word "cinema". They are "movie theaters". The snippets of forthcoming films are not "trailers" they are "teasers".
8. November 5th is no longer a day for fireworks. July 4th is the appropriate fireworks festival. If you want a big fireworks party on November 5th, we will help you to blow up your Houses of Parliament. You won't be needing them any longer; Disneyland London will be situated there. Hunting with packs of dogs is also banned. Instead, you will go hunting with a pick-up truck, some six-packs of beer, two coonhounds and enough guns and ammo to equip a private militia. There is also no such activity as "caravanning". It is properly called "camping". The thing boy scouts do with tents and bedrolls is called "tenting".
9. Roundabouts will be banned. What is the point of turning left in order to turn right? They are confusing to Americans and are death traps. You will start driving on the right with immediate effect. Most of the world drives on the right already. You will be allowed to turn right on a red light if safe to do so though you must check local county legislation as this is not permitted in all areas.
10. Those things which you call chips are cholesterol-soaked abominations. You will start to eat fries - light fluffy potato in crisp coating. If you want to eat British-style fried potato sticks you will need a certificate from your doctor and good medical insurance. Beer is to be served cold. The warm, flat drink you call beer is properly termed 'ale' and the FDA have determined it to be unfit for human consumption. You will also learn the difference between crackers, cookies and biscuits to avoid causing unnecessary confusion to mainland Americans.
11. All inter-personal communications between family members, even if resident in the same house, must be through a lawyer. It is compulsory to sue somebody at least once per year - be inventive. It is compulsory to have therapy three times each week and to recover false memories of your childhood which allow you to sue your parents and/or your therapist. Therapy will take the place of speaking to family members. You will be given compulsory courses on how to become dysfunctional. Name your children after interesting medical conditions.
12. You will not have guns. In the eyes of Mainland Americans you are wayward children. Children are not permitted to play with firearms unless they have a legitimate reason to do so i.e. they plan to gun down the population of a small town (self-defense) or slaughter every living creature within a mile radius (hunting).
Thank you for your co-operation. You will be assimilated.
as i understand it the repayments started in 1950, and were to consist of 50 repayments, nominally on an annual basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall
the repayment agreement allowed six individual deferments of the annual payments, which the UK took when it considered economically necessary, thus we come to the final payment in the year 2006.
Interesting how the original makes fun of the Americans and the reply makes fun of.... Americans. :2thumbsup:
PT: So you admit we deffered payments.