EU has new members

Romania and Bulgaria. Dust off the welcomes, I'm already overfilled with these things. I went in the Revolution Plaza in Bucharest, to enter the New Year with champagne and many people. And also, the high ranking EU officials.

I want to ask our european members, their opinion about the EU.
For me, it doesn't look like something extremely "happy" to cheer about it. I mean, what is it actually? To me, just a more complex economic alliance. Nothing more.

Just wanting to share some opinions on this. :bow:

Thats two targets for Greece down the tube :2thumbsup:

They can still get turkey

Hope they don't get into the EU :p

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=118517

He saying maybe israel should join the EU there not even in Europe:dizzy2:

Morocco wasn't allowed into the EU because they weren't in Europe, I doubt they would allow Israel in.

most of turkey isnt in Europe either but they are considering them? they allowed Israel into the European cup although i doubt its the same thing :juggle2:

Yes, Only Constantinople.

dont the greeks want it back?

Of course :beam:. We really want our empire back :laugh4:.

Good luck with the empire buliding:laugh4:

Yeah.

Turkey :surrender:
Bulgaria :surrender:
All the Balkans :surrender:
Italy :surrender:
Egypt :surrender:
Coast of the Middle East :surrender:


:2thumbsup:

wow big empire

:idea2:
wasnt it roman...:dizzy2:

Yes, it was the Roman Empire. It's only called the Byzantine Empire by historians who don't like the fact that it was the succesor of Rome.

It has its flaws, but generally speaking it's underapreciated.

I've heard it called the Eastern Roman Empire...

As for the EU it is about money and the more people the larger consumer base the more economic currency you can wield as a group. From this evolves other things like political currency as having such a large consumer base will make other nations/economic entities salivate at the idea of entry into such a large market. Also as less money has to be spent on defending from each other more can be spent on socio-economic projects from manufacturing to football.

What does the EU do besides make taxes?

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Originally Posted by Patriarch of Constantinople

Yes, it was the Roman Empire. It's only called the Byzantine Empire by historians who don't like the fact that it was the succesor of Rome.

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People have a proiblem calling it the Roman empire because Rome itself was in other hands by that time. The Byzantine Empire was as Roman as the current American empire is British. Actually, rather less so, since the Americans at least speak English, while the Byzantines spoke Greek.

I think I'll write to my MP tomorrow, applying to become the new governor of the American colonies, citing the Byzantine-Roman link as a precedent.

The people considerd themsleves romans and Heirs. i dont think americans considers themselevs brits?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

People have a proiblem calling it the Roman empire because Rome itself was in other hands by that time. The Byzantine Empire was as Roman as the current American empire is British. Actually, rather less so, since the Americans at least speak English, while the Byzantines spoke Greek.

I think I'll write to my MP tomorrow, applying to become the new governor of the American colonies, citing the Byzantine-Roman link as a precedent.

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Oh come on. So if they speak Greek, they aren't the Roman Empire? Even though they spoke Latin, followed Roman customs and such? Really.

Constantine, the founder of Constantinople, was Roman. He put the capital of the Roman Empire at Constantinople, in Greece. So, since the city was situated in Greece, the Greek language was learned so they could communicate.

isnt Constatinople at the time actully in thrace?

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Originally Posted by Bar Kochba

isnt Constatinople at the time actully in thrace?

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Yes which was Greek.

And really, don't get me on a nationalistic mode.

isnt there a problem of turkey having a population like 5 times your size:wall:

That's only because of our slow expansion. Turkey had huge territories while Greece was still gaining their independance.

so even if Greece tried to invade they would have there arses handed to them?

It really depends.

On what? Maybe you can get the Kurds to back you up a bit make it a 2 front war....:beam:

And besides, our nations is smaller than Turkey.

Greek Consitution says that all citizens capable of bearing arms must defend Greece.

:laugh4: I can just see armies of Hoplites invading Turkey

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Originally Posted by Bar Kochba

On what? Maybe you can get the Kurds to back you up a bit make it a 2 front war....:beam:

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Why we attack, the situation of both armed forces, the backings of different nations, civilian opinion etc

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Originally Posted by Bar Kochba

:laugh4: I can just see armies of Hoplites invading Turkey

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Yes
:beam:

Turkey has one of the largest army in the world, but a large army can easily be defeated by an experienced force the the mountains :2thumbsup:

im sure some of our turkish friends here wont be to happy about your plans for glory and empire :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Bar Kochba

im sure some of our turkish friends here wont be to happy about your plans for glory and empire :2thumbsup:

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Well thats what you get from nationalists :beam:

It would be like me saying Israel should invade Jordon and some other sourounding countries becuase they were once part of Solomons empire

If they were that nationalist, sure :beam:

Well the settlers are. lol. Just the lefties in goverment arnt perticularly

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Originally Posted by Bar Kochba

Well the settlers are. lol. Just the lefties in goverment arnt perticularly

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Bah, lefties

are there alot of nationlist greeks out there?

Of course. It's our main export :laugh4:

LOL anyway weve gone off the subject completely.... Now Britian is going to have Thousands of bulgairians and romanaians coming here to work aswell as our hundred of thousnads of polish people. Fun

The EU has expanded too quickly its now bloated with far too many countires that cannot contribute forcing the larger members to foot their bill... god help us if we let Turkey in too...

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Originally Posted by Bar Kochba

LOL anyway weve gone off the subject completely.... Now Britian is going to have Thousands of bulgairians and romanaians coming here to work aswell as our hundred of thousnads of polish people. Fun

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Long live Europe eh?
:laugh4:

everyone in Eurpoe wants a piece of the pound.. there are some places in London where it is just polish community they got shops and they all drink loads.. crazy

edyzmedieval made a post enquiring about the role of the EU.

I would appreciate if we moved away from the unhelpful nationalist sabre-rattling and got back to the thread topic.

Thank you kindly.

:bow:

Two pages of :furious3: complete off-topic nonsense! Great way to mess around when moderators aren't looking :thumbsdown: .

About Israël as a possible member for the EU. This was a [sarcasm\] brilliant idea [\sarcasm] from Blair in order to lessen the problems in the Middle East. It's just laughable when you consider it. It won't change much about Israëls policy (even if it wants to be part of the EU which I doubt) and furthermore it will destroy the small leverage we have in that area.

About Turkey joining the EU. It won't happen in the first 10 years if it ever will happen. Turkey isn't adopting fast enough and on certain matters not at all. If a country doesn't acknowledge a country that is part of the EU and is even boycotting it, that country doesn't deserve to join. If it was up to me I would freeze the negotiations for at least 5 years just to get the message across but then again I'm no diplomat.

About the new EU members. There is a negative atmosphere around the EU for quite some time, certainly in the UK (Thatchers "I want my money back"). The feelings towards the euro can be used as an example: Price augmentations are being blamed on the euro although research have proven the difference.
I, however, have to admit that the EU has grown to fast.
Politically, the old system based on 12 members can't manage the number of member states we have today effectively.
Economically, it will take a while before most new members are up to speed with the rest while they will need a lot of help that now is used elsewhere.
And don't forget problems with corruption, new alliances in the EU itself, ...

The EU will remain problematic for a number of years or even decades if this expansion continues without the EU orginasation following it.

Though I don't mean to say anything against the citizens of the two countries in question, I can't help but think that the decision to accept them into the EU was motivated more by strategic reasons than any other. Certainly both, and all other new members, will benefit greatly from joining the EU, that is unquestionable.

Both countries are fairly rich in resources, and Romania still has oil reserves (even though they are lessening) and a fairly large amount of population to serve as a workforce.

There is an interesting pattern to the expansion of the EU and the expansion has a special accent on the former Soviet block of countries ... the Baltic countries, Poland, Hungary, now Romania and Bulgaria ... even aiming at Turkey. Who wants to bet that the EU will be aiming at Ukraine and Belorussia next? And after Turkey eventually gets in ... who wants to bet that Georgia, Armenia and others will be aimed at?

Now, it seems to me that the EU is slowly developing something of a ... rivalry with Russia, especially with Russia holding so much oil and gas that Europe likes and, as things stand, with the situation in Russia actually improving, it seems that the EU is interested in expanding it's zone of interest, while lessening the Russian one, and fast.

Not that it matters and not that there'll be a war or anything, but it just seems to me that the EU is pushing in on the Russian sphere of influence, and quite successfully it seems, too.

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Originally Posted by Keba

There is an interesting pattern to the expansion of the EU and the expansion has a special accent on the former Soviet block of countries ... the Baltic countries, Poland, Hungary, now Romania and Bulgaria ... even aiming at Turkey. Who wants to bet that the EU will be aiming at Ukraine and Belorussia next? And after Turkey eventually gets in ... who wants to bet that Georgia, Armenia and others will be aimed at?

Now, it seems to me that the EU is slowly developing something of a ... rivalry with Russia, especially with Russia holding so much oil and gas that Europe likes and, as things stand, with the situation in Russia actually improving, it seems that the EU is interested in expanding it's zone of interest, while lessening the Russian one, and fast.

Not that it matters and not that there'll be a war or anything, but it just seems to me that the EU is pushing in on the Russian sphere of influence, and quite successfully it seems, too.

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Or perhaps that the EU is simply incorporating whoever wants to be included. Morocco has asked to join, but entering Africa would lead to difficulties with land borders, so why not let the Mediterranean be a natural southern border? West is the Atlantic, and north is the Arctic - no expansion is possible there. So, under pressure to expand, not least from the countries asking for inclusion, we've gone steadily in the only direction possible - eastwards. IIRC even Russia had discussed the possibility of being included at some point, before its recent re-infusion of pride under Putin - there may well be an equal partnership or entente at some point.

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

I want to ask our european members, their opinion about the EU.
For me, it doesn't look like something extremely "happy" to cheer about it. I mean, what is it actually?

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The EU is an organization that forces you to pay taxes so rich elite politicians can toast in Champagne on a cruise to the Pacific where they discuss how to solve poverty, the length of bananas, and other important things.

Also be aware that it is now officially illegal to toss dwarves. That is a directive (or regulation) that the commission has forced on its members... bah!

About Romania and Bulgaria: there are too many new members who are too underdeveloped and have joined too soon.
Nonetheless: welcome and here's to a fruitful partnership. ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Also be aware that it is now officially illegal to toss dwarves. That is a directive (or regulation) that the commission has forced on its members... bah!

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Well so much for your favourite pasttime then, hey?

No, wait. Being a sensible and intelligent poster you probably have never tossed a dwarf and are quite repulsed by the idea. Really, I don't see the problem, Sjakihata.

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Originally Posted by Keba

I can't help but think that the decision to accept them into the EU was motivated more by strategic reasons than any other.

There is an interesting pattern to the expansion of the EU and the expansion has a special accent on the former Soviet block of countries ... the Baltic countries, Poland, Hungary, now Romania and Bulgaria ... even aiming at Turkey. Who wants to bet that the EU will be aiming at Ukraine and Belorussia next?

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This is so not a relevant description of the expansion. Or shall I just be frank and call it conspiracist rubbish? There is no secret masterplan to sneakily encroach on anybodies sphere of influence. That's the Russian/Tsarist/Communist/Putinist way of seeing the world.

The EU isn't 'aiming' at countries it would like to pry away from Russia. There has on the contrary always been a quite open invitation to all European countries to join according to their own free, democratic will. Pannonian already pointed out the apparantly not so devastatingly obvious: to the west, south and north there is only sea. By 1989, the whole of democratic Europe was a member of the EU, with the exception of neutral Switzerland and Kuwait Norway. Which means only countries from the east were eligable for membership after 1989. [Pedantry]: after 1986 to be precise, as that was when the last west European countries joined[/pedantry]

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

About Turkey joining the EU. It won't happen in the first 10 years if it ever will happen. Turkey isn't adopting fast enough and on certain matters not at all. If a country doesn't acknowledge a country that is part of the EU and is even boycotting it, that country doesn't deserve to join. If it was up to me I would freeze the negotiations for at least 5 years just to get the message across but then again I'm no diplomat.

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More than anything else I wish we'd make up our mind about Turkey. Either we want them in or not. These 'negotiations' have been dragging on for over forty years now. Mostly it's just staling for time because nobody has the guts to either allow Turkey in or give it a clear no.

I dont' want them in. I want a decent set of treaties installed for an equal partnership, with close economic and military ties. If the majority do want them in, then fine too. But then present Turkey with a clear and definitive list of standards, with a clear prospect of membership after meeting them.
But for God's sake stop with these endless bogus negotiations that only serve to avoid any decision, and which - completely justifiably - exasparates and antagonises Turkey.

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Originally Posted by Bar Kochba

are there alot of nationlist greeks out there?

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In Greece? Nah. No more than - oh, let's say - some ten million.

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The EU in it's current state is doomed to fail. The simple fact that there is this debate about new members and it's become so heated is proof enough why. Yall are English, French, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish, Romanian, and not European's.

Good luck to the new countries on their venture.

Can the EU effectively enforce its policies on a military level? I doubt it.

And Greece would totally pwn turkey. Their horse-archers arent that great now with the invention of long range guns.

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Originally Posted by holybandit

And Greece would totally pwn turkey. Their horse-archers arent that great now with the invention of long range guns.

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:laugh4:

Janissaries watch out!

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

This is so not a relevant description of the expansion. Or shall I just be frank and call it conspiracist rubbish? There is no secret masterplan to sneakily encroach on anybodies sphere of influence. That's the Russian/Tsarist/Communist/Putinist way of seeing the world.

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~:( Aww, but I love my little conspiracy theories ... they're so entertaining, especially when people believe them, which appears not to be the case here, unfortunately.:laugh4:

Besides, I am a communist, raised in a country that was communist and a Slav at that (at least partially).

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Yall are English, French, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish, Romanian, and not European's.

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What an odd statement, most of my generation (currently going to various universities) do, in fact, consider themselves European, with only a minor accent on national identities (in the form of cultural uniqueness).

Oddly enough, I am the only one amongst them who actually has reason to consider himself European first (since the only country, if one counts ancestry, I could list for being my nationality is now gone a good 90 years).

I guess you should give it time, in a generation or two, I suspect things will be quite different. If someone fixes the horrible mess the EU is currently, that is.

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Originally Posted by holybandit

Can the EU effectively enforce its policies on a military level? I doubt it.

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Why should hey have to?
The EU doesn't even have an army. It doesn't need to as the EU isn't a new country but a highly developed economical, political and social alliance between independent member states.

EU needs to die. Only costs money and slows down already painfully slow decisionmaking, and it sticks it's nose where it doesn't belong. And they just don't get a hint, we said NO to your consitution so LISTEN instead of trying to covertly implement it anyway. The majority of us DON'T want Turkey in the EU, so LISTEN instead of throwing them on our laps.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

By 1989, the whole of democratic Europe was a member of the EU, with the exception of neutral Switzerland and Kuwait Norway. Which means only countries from the east were eligable for membership after 1989. [Pedantry] : after 1986 to be precise, as that was when the last west European countries joined[/pedantry]

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Accepts Louis' wisdom and excludes Sweden, Finland and Austria as democratic nations and that they belong to western Europe.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

~;p [Pedantry]And that still doesn't include Malta and Cyprus[/pedantry]

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Accepts Louis' wisdom and excludes Sweden, Finland and Austria as democratic nations and that they belong to western Europe.

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Finland does border Russia, so it's geographically east...

Maybe he means 1995 anyway.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

About Romania and Bulgaria: there are too many new members who are too underdeveloped and have joined too soon.
Nonetheless: welcome and here's to a fruitful partnership. ~:cheers:

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Thank you Louis. ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by BDC

Finland does border Russia, so it's geographically east...

Maybe he means 1995 anyway.

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That's why he corrects himself with 1986 instead of 1989 you know ~;)

And Finland is still not democratic. ~D

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Originally Posted by Ironside

That's why he corrects himself with 1986 instead of 1989 you know ~;)

And Finland is still not democratic. ~D

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Quoted for the truth. It may seem from outside that we are a democratic Nation,but its just a big scheme to fool other countries into foolish sense of security. Infact Finland is a worst kind of rogue state ruled by a unique female dictator called Tarja Halonen. Soon there will be banners and sculptures of her all over the world, once our devious plans of world domination will be revealed. Osama and Kim Yong Il are nice little boys when compared to the future dictator of the world.Watching her will propably melt the eyes of lesser men.See for your self if you dont believe me:

https://img218.imageshack.us/img218/...nettiinrz9.jpg

While the IAEA is foolishly worried about Iran´s nuclear program. Finland is building at the moment not first,second or third, but its sixth Nuclear reactor. These reactors are pumping out material for immense Nuclear arsenal which will be used on sudden first strike against west,while Russia will get all the blame and retaliation,becouse the Missiles are practicly launched from Russia or atleast from so small country near Russia that it cant be pointed out without immense knowledge of Geography. So when you sip your beer or coffee and think that you are safe,beware soon all you will be doing is hailing Tarja 1st the Dictator of Tellus!:whip:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

EU needs to die. Only costs money and slows down already painfully slow decisionmaking, and it sticks it's nose where it doesn't belong. And they just don't get a hint, we said NO to your consitution so LISTEN instead of trying to covertly implement it anyway. The majority of us DON'T want Turkey in the EU, so LISTEN instead of throwing them on our laps.

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Now let's look at this wise and informed statement provided to us by one of the European populace who has benefitted from the EU and all its predecessors.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

EU needs to die.

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A statement any intellectual would make about an orginasation. Ignoring any benefit and only focussing on the negative, because if there was a decent benifit/cost ration a reorganisation would be desired above dumping the whole idea.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

And they just don't get a hint, we said NO to your consitution so LISTEN instead of trying to covertly implement it anyway. The majority of us DON'T want Turkey in the EU, so LISTEN instead of throwing them on our laps.

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1) Turkey is far from in the EU. No decision has been made and that's the real problem (like Louis said).
2) How do you know if the majority of the populace of the EU MEMBER STATES ( Not the Netherlands alone) are against the inclusion of Turkey. Show me a poll and I'll believe you but until then this is just an unfounded statement (like the rest of your post).
3) Their was no majority against the constitution. There was a majority against the constitution in certain longstanding member states. As a result other referenda were put off and the constitution it its current form was put in the freezer. I must admit that this was a political manoeuvre so the constitution wasn't shot down completly as the atmosphere when it was voted on was very focussed on money.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Only costs money

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The Netherlands together with Germany, the UK and some other countries like Austria give more than they get back in cash. The famous Thatcher-quote "I want my mony back" is an argument in this country to be against the EU. Belgium, My home country, is a special case as we to are a netto payer, like they say, but get a large but unknown sum back because of all the European institutions in Brussels and the economical boost it brings with it.
But you should also think about the economical boost these countries get from being in this big new free market. No import/export taxes, a moving workforce, one cuurency, ...

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Originally Posted by Fragony

and slows down already painfully slow decisionmaking

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True, one of my biggest arguments against the EU in its current form. The constitution, however, was/is a first step to an efficient and effective political decisionmaking system. But right I forgot, You voted against it

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Originally Posted by Fragony

and it sticks it's nose where it doesn't belong.

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Well so does your countries government. The only difference is that the EU involves more people, so the chance that the view of the EU is different than your own is bigger. If you don't want an institution sticking their noses where it, according to you, doesn't belong than you should be looking for a nice anarchy. May I suggest Somalia for it's warm climate and powerhungry warlords.

Of course it has already been decided that Turkey joins the EU. For the rest, well if someone handed me a bag of money and said here you go go crazy then I wouldn't complain either, but it's me handing the bag. That, and they never asked me anything. EU ackomplishes nothing. They claim to be the ones holding us all together, yeah right, great $elling point. We have reached a balance in europe, that is all.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Accepts Louis' wisdom and excludes Sweden, Finland and Austria as democratic nations and that they belong to western Europe.

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Acknowledges Ironside utterly pwning me with his superior knowledge. :2thumbsup:

Darn, I completely forgot about all those miniature countries joining in 1995.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Of course it has already been decided that Turkey joins the EU. For the rest, well if someone handed me a bag of money and said here you go go crazy then I wouldn't complain either, but it's me handing the bag. That, and they never asked me anything. EU ackomplishes nothing. They claim to be the ones holding us all together, yeah right, great $elling point. We have reached a balance in europe, that is all.

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Remember that together we are strong.
What if the Netherlands have a problem with some evil country that for example captured a few dutchmen and they establish a trade embargo. Would that country really care? Would it care as much as if the whole EU backs the Netherlands and the EU sets a trade embargo? Also don't forget about cheap goods. And don't forget that you most likely pay a lot more taxes to your own government than to the EU. If it's all about money, then get rid of all forms of government and live on yourself.:juggle2:
Ok, maybe not that easy to do in Europe but I think Antarctica has not been claimed by anyone yet.~;)

Yeah the EU handled that brilliantly with the cartoonstuff, Denmark was all alone on that one. Together we just talk a lot. Balkanwars....... we really gave them the shakes huh.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Yeah the EU handled that brilliantly with the cartoonstuff, Denmark was all alone on that one. Together we just talk a lot. Balkanwars....... we really gave them the shakes huh.

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IIRC the last time Britain changed America's mind on anything (and remember, we're supposed to be their closest and bestest allies) was when we joined the EU in a trade war with them, forcing them to respect a WTO ruling on steel imports. The likes of Bush don't care about arguments over whether something is right or wrong, they care about whether or not you can hurt them. Now imagine a resurgent Russia. Does YOUR country get gas from Russia?

If Au = Gold = First Place
Does that meant that Eu = Fifth Place?

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Yall are English, French, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish, Romanian, and not European's.

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Ah, but the two are not exclusive. They work at a different level. There's room for a European identity because it is supranational, just like there is room for a regional identity next to a national one because it is subnational.

More than that, not even national identities are necessarily exclusive- it's perfectly possible to be both Italian and French. People can have a multitude of identities.

With the return of regionalism, the slow rise of a European identity, immigration and inter-national breeding, a mixture of identities is in fact becoming the norm.

Poland entered EU some years ago and situation changed a lot. Due to emigration unemployment lower and payments are rising. Poles established national minorities into some countries like Ireland or Islandia.

Peasant earnt big money soon after accession - when Germans saw how cheap is food here, they started buying everything that can be eat.

Cars are much cheaper now - because Poles are buying 2nd hand cars into Germany. Furthermore car stealing is lowering - 50% into 3 years. People prefer buy legally imported car than stolen one.

Poles are not blind US supporters like they were about 5 years ago and they are slowly starting to understand European point of view.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

IIRC the last time Britain changed America's mind on anything (and remember, we're supposed to be their closest and bestest allies) was when we joined the EU in a trade war with them, forcing them to respect a WTO ruling on steel imports. The likes of Bush don't care about arguments over whether something is right or wrong, they care about whether or not you can hurt them. Now imagine a resurgent Russia. Does YOUR country get gas from Russia?

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A bad example since we export gas. It's the rest of the EU that's going to get cold ~;)

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Originally Posted by KrooK

Poland entered EU some years ago and situation changed a lot. Due to emigration unemployment lower and payments are rising. Poles established national minorities into some countries like Ireland or Islandia.

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Isn't there supposed to be a depopulation problem among the younger age range, who've decamped to other EU countries like UK or Ireland? Sort of like rural communities elsewhere, but nationwide.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

A bad example since we export gas. It's the rest of the EU that's going to get cold ~;)

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OK, my mistake, bad example. My point remains though. All the EU countries, with the possible exception of Germany, are small fry compared to the big boys like the US, Russia, China, etc. If we separate, those big boys are going to stomp all over us when we have competing interests. Better to gang up and give ourselves more clout.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

If Au = Gold = First Place
Does that meant that Eu = Fifth Place?

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Not really.

Au as you rightly point out is the chemical symbol for gold.

Eu stands for Euphonium, a dense element of base metal that is commonly made into a booming instrument powered by lots of wind.

:wink3:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Not really.

Eu stands for Euphonium, a dense element of base metal that is commonly made into a booming instrument powered by lots of wind.

:wink3:

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Nope. Eu Stands for Europium.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
Not really.

Eu stands for Euphonium, a dense element of base metal that is commonly made into a booming instrument powered by lots of hot air wind.

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The most accurate thing said about the EU in this thread so far. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Isn't there supposed to be a depopulation problem among the younger age range, who've decamped to other EU countries like UK or Ireland? Sort of like rural communities elsewhere, but nationwide.

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Not really. I can assume that about 90 % of those people are abroad only temporary. In general they work abroad and come back with earned money.

There are some sectors of economy which suffer from lack of workers now, but it was hard to avoid anyway - building industry requires more people than before everywhere - in the entire EU so it wasn't strange that they are the majority of the Poles working abroad.

Actually the young people suffer from high unemployement here - the lucky generation of early-mid 90s which was able to get jobs easily is still here despite of impressive economic growth we have from 1989 it still doesn't generate enough well payed jobs, especially in some sections.

The large, though temporal emigraion is also the result of the 'baby boom' from early 1980s - those people are entering the age when they start working from the beginning of XXIst century and it will take some time before the polish economy will finally be ready to absorb them all.

I think it will be something quite opposite - the returning people will generate more jobs starting their own companies - I know several examples myself.

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OK, my mistake, bad example. My point remains though. All the EU countries, with the possible exception of Germany, are small fry compared to the big boys like the US, Russia, China, etc. If we separate, those big boys are going to stomp all over us when we have competing interests. Better to gang up and give ourselves more clout.

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I agree with the conclusion, but what Russia is doing among the 'big boys' ?

Its economy has the size of the Netherlands or slightly bigger... In the EU - the UK, Italy, Germany, France and maybe even Spain are wealthier. It is not even much larger than Polish economy.
Actually oil and gas fed growth it experiences is rather bad reason to give them so much credit - the membership in G8 was given for political reasons to appease former super-power's pride, but Russian Federation is only bigger Saudi Arabia or Iran and comapring to any other G8 state it is like a beggar or very poor and odd causin.:inquisitive: