Grand Bombard = teh sux

Fought a battle yesterday, open battlefield, no trees. I was defending, and situated my forces at the edge of the battlefield at the top of a very gentle upward slope. Had one GB unit that I parked in fron of my army. The AI decided they were too afraid to charge me, but not afraid enough to stay out of range of the GB.

And ideal situation for GB fire, one would think: Enemy lined up all nice and neat in a big bunch, at the bottom of a very gentle slope, just waiting to be blown up.

The result?

The GB expended all ammo (firing flaming rounds) during the "battle." The targets never moved, they just stayed where they were.

Only one shot hit.

It was like clockwork: One shot would plow into the dirt well in front of the enemy, the next one would go sailing high over their heads.

One thing I will say, the one shot that hit killed 25 enemy.

But come on! One hit? In ideal conditions?

I'm going to melt down all of my GBs and turn them into Camel Gunners. Those guys at least know how to kick a little arse...

When having fired upon their target, especially a fixed one, the artillery crew should have zeroed in on it, then make many effective casualties. Or like somebody once suggested a "Fire at this area" option must be included. Maybe it's moddable? Probably not :no:

You do realise that the purpose of GB is demolishhinmg walls, it even says they are innaccurate against infantry. They arn't SUPPOSED to kill much in the way of enemy infantry when fired at them, plus flaming rounds are even more innaccurate in any case so turning those off would have helped a lot.

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Originally Posted by Carl

You do realise that the purpose of GB is demolishhinmg walls, it even says they are innaccurate against infantry. They arn't SUPPOSED to kill much in the way of enemy infantry when fired at them, plus flaming rounds are even more innaccurate in any case so turning those off would have helped a lot.

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I realize that. But they were firing at an entire full stack army grouped together. The army wasn't moving, and was as big of a target as a wall would be.

And only 1 shot hit.

Let me say that again:

Only one shot hit.

I wouldn't be complaining if even 10% of the shots had hit. Or even 5%.

But only one hit in those conditions is just silly.

And I actually did (sorry I didn't mention it in my earlier post, but I didn't think it was material to the topic) try turning off the flaming ammo for about 5 shots.

None of those hit anything either.

Bombards are desgined to hit the broad sides of barns. They couldn't hit men in the field if they had an engraved invitation and the enemies names scratched into the ball. The larger siege guns do better, cannons, culverins, basiliks. But with falming missiles they miss almost everytime. The field guns (mortars, serpentines, ribaulds) hit troops much better.

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Originally Posted by lars573

Bombards are desgined to hit the broad sides of barns. They couldn't hit men in the field if they had an engraved invitation and the enemies names scratched into the ball. The larger siege guns do better, cannons, culverins, basiliks. But with falming missiles they miss almost everytime. The field guns (mortars, serpentines, ribaulds) hit troops much better.

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I must admit, the most pleasure I have had from this game so far is when I managed to sneak a ribault around the flank of an enemy army and it put down volley after volley of perfect enfiladed fire, reducing several entire units to nothingness.

Mwahahahahaha.....

But have I mentioned camel gunners yet?

Have you tried them?

Man! They lay down a perfect hailstorm of death, and they're fast enough to keep out of trouble.

Hands down the best unit in the game.

Also bear in mind that a bunched up army like that is the worst thing to shoot at with bombards, you need them spread out so even the misses hit somthing. Finnially, Wals are taller and wider than packed units. If the Bombard gets a miss result in the stats against a wall it's still likliy it will slam into the wal anyway at which point the animation ovveridde kicks in and it does damage.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Also bear in mind that a bunched up army like that is the worst thing to shoot at with bombards, you need them spread out so even the misses hit somthing. Finnially, Wals are taller and wider than packed units. If the Bombard gets a miss result in the stats against a wall it's still likliy it will slam into the wal anyway at which point the animation ovveridde kicks in and it does damage.

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Sorry, I wasn't clear. By bunched up, I mean the enemy army was situated something like this (c=cavalry, x=infantry, m=missile troops):

CCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCC CCCCCC
CCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCC CCCCCC

XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM

I was firing at the infantry in the middle of the the pack. So theoretically, my "drop shorts" should have been hitting the missile troops, and my overshoots should have been hitting the cavalry. But every shot except one fell well in front of the missile troops, or well behind the cavalry.

I think the GB is meant to be intrinsically innacurate, so no matter how many times the crew get to fiddle with it, it's still probably going to miss due to the nature of it's construction

I remember the trailer where the monster bombard seemed to kill all those English knights and we started to worry about artillery being overpowered. I'm not convinced that kind of siege ordinance really belonged on a Medieval field battle, so if it is nerfed that seems fine by me. How is it against castle walls?

Inaccurate. Did a custom battle and it missed a tower (that is harder to hit though) 17 times out of 20. The times is does hit though.....wow.

does the effectiveness of a siege weapon have to do with the experience of the crew handling it? In rome, I remembered that higher experienced onagers had higher chance of hitting targets, while fresh recruits cannot be counted on at all. So I only build onagers in settlements where they come out with 3 bronze stripes.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

I must admit, the most pleasure I have had from this game so far is when I managed to sneak a ribault around the flank of an enemy army and it put down volley after volley of perfect enfiladed fire, reducing several entire units to nothingness.

Mwahahahahaha.....

But have I mentioned camel gunners yet?

Have you tried them?

Man! They lay down a perfect hailstorm of death, and they're fast enough to keep out of trouble.

Hands down the best unit in the game.

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I haven't managed to get that far as the Moors yet. I did use a Ribault on the Aztecs once. :skull: Those head dress wearing native didn't know what hit'em. Routed one spearmen unit after 2 volleys. :evil:

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Originally Posted by econ21

I remember the trailer where the monster bombard seemed to kill all those English knights and we started to worry about artillery being overpowered. I'm not convinced that kind of siege ordinance really belonged on a Medieval field battle, so if it is nerfed that seems fine by me. How is it against castle walls?

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Well that was the luckiest of shots crafted soley for the trailer. Any cannon is great vs. walls. 3 GB mean you can take a citadel without any other siege gear.

How do you select to do sieges in a custom battle? I've selected every single map and not one of them gives me different settlement options! :(

You need to select one WITHOUT a greyed out X tnext to the name.

...And then you need to set the 'settlement level' to what you want

Doh!!! I feel so stupid about that, I'd checked them hundreds of times before but I just kept missing that >.< thanks guys!

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Originally Posted by Goofball

CCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCC CCCCCC
CCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCCCCC CCCC CCCCCC

XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM

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Ah, now if that artillery crew misses anything when firing at 'em in THAT position, and that army is just standing there, there's DEFINITELY something not right. I even had artillery shoot right NEXT to 'em, over and over! So when I see my shot finally going at a good height, horizontally they seem to miss :wall:

Maybe it's good to mention the unit scales people are playing.

Artillery at close range is one of the greatest sights in the game.
Once, as the French, the Scotts were storming a city of mine. I set up some pikes and such as a distraction and threw my few field artillery pieces up in the streets to provide cover.
So, long story short a horde of about a thousand Highlanders/various nobles ended up charging a Serpintine.
So I watched in amazement as the guys working the cannon didnt succumb to the urge to pick it up, turn it around, re-aim it, and take forever to load, but actually managed to get a shot off at JUST the perfect range.
I then watched as a wave of Scotts rose into the air in a straight line in front of the cannon.
Then I watched half the Scottish army panic and run for it, at which point they were promptly slaughtered by the voulge militia.

Pro tip: don't use flaming rounds. They're extra inaccurate and don't do the "skipping."

The GB is quite useless. When it comes to taking down walls, the other artillery pieces are more than enough, and the GB, like already mentioned, is horrible at anything else.

Whilst having a mess with one I ended upwith a GB right up against one edge of a map and the enemy a short distance away, (within Longbow range). The misses where somtimes landing outside the other edge of the map, hey where littrially missing by a whole maps width:smash:.

Grand bombards are not very effective firing at the front of the enemy. But very deadly when firing at the flanks, since the balls would bounce and wipe out rows of enemy units. Just make sure to send some protection such as a couple of cavalry units and ribault units. Great during a siege, since you can send your bombards out on the sides of the citadel or city. The enemy only send a few units at a time to counter the threat, your ribaults would tear them apart.

flaming shot is worthless. try using regular shot when it hits the ground it bounces and takes out a lot of enemy soldiers. never had much with flaming ammo dont even know why it is in the game.

It's hard to hit even walls with flaming ammo on.

What about high "valor or exprience? then does flaming do better.

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Originally Posted by cegman

What about high "valor or exprience? then does flaming do better.

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Yes accuracy increases with experience but don't expect to hit units with flamming ammo even if you have full experience.

An "area of effect" targeting option would be a godsend:idea2:

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Originally Posted by mad cat mech

never had much with flaming ammo dont even know why it is in the game.

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It probably has a larger morale penalty when it hits a unit...

According to the description it has larger effects full stop , both morale and normal. This actually seems to hold true for arrows as when they hit a high defence unit they do tend to be more likliy to do damage, they're also usful in seiges.

The other day, I was playing a custom battle, and there was a melee directly in front of my GB. Like, two yards in front of it. I fired directly into it, and . . . wow. Insta-rout. Took out a not-insignificant part of my committed forces, as well.

Use the Ballistae for anti infantry! damn accurate.

I was attacking a city and had taken down the gate and some walls. The enemy was bunching (6 units) together along a straight street, just within range of my ballistae which was just outside the city. One flaming shot took out 2% of 1000+ troops! that's 20 guys per shot! at least 4/5? of the first 10+ shots landed perfectly.

p.s I expended 2 cannons with half ammunition each (exploding ammo) and landed one shot only....

I don't know u guys, but i got real good accuracy grand bombard.
In my spain campaign, i have an army which have 1 GB and 1 trebuchet. Up to the battles i have fighted, 80% of them have the enemy general killed by a GB bomb. My GB is now expierence 6, with the XP gained only from shooting. I guess more XP means more accuracy. Th trebuchet don't have such accuracy except it is very close.
Flaming GB bombs are not as good as not flaming one. That is because tehre is a chance that the rock will hit the ground and rebounce in front of the enermy killing them.

I've been having terrible luck with artillery against units; they can use their entire ammo supply and not take out anything. But I did have fun in Florence with a cannon. I knocked down a wall in front of the street leading to the town square, then wheeled the cannon in, shooting down that street. It's the only time I've ever managed to get any significant casualties with artillery, though the AI's artillery is always spot on.

I agree...
I hired a merc GB unit once to take on a full stack Citadel and wished I'd saved the money.

The Culverins I took were far more effective, not only at knocking down the walls, but in dealing with the defenders within.

The trick is to click on the enemy unit when there heading your way, down a street, but still out of your line of sight.
This starts the loading sequence ending in a shot when the enemy is much closer. Combined with archers, the other guy often breaks.

If you dont think you'll get the shot off in time, then double click and run.

Now... I wonder if the Monster Ribault could be used like this, or if its just as worthless as the Moster Bombard?

Many thanks
SJH

Though I now mainly use cannons,Grand Bombards actually worked for me once. I was beseiging a fort with a prince inside. I knew the guy would take out lots of my units when I rush inside once my bombards brought the walls down.

The idiot stood just next to the 2nd wall line in a rather weird thin line formation with him at the front. Then wham --We have cut of the serpents head-- message appeared(I'm playing turks) Apparently a stray ball landed a perfect shot on him. Without their general, the bodyguard suffered heavy casualties due to morale loss.What are the chances of that??

Monster Ribaults are much different then the Monster Bombard - they're more like ribaults on crack. Or multiplied by 6, technically. I don't have a lot of experience with ribaults on the open field, but on bridges and attacking/defending cities, where the enemy get funnelled into a narrow corridor, they're absolutely brutal. They're not artillery so much as a full unit of arqubusiers in a box, and you have the option to fire all 36(!) barrels in rapid sequence. I've had battles where I'd bust a hole in the hall, wheel up the MB's and shred the enemy inside. They're still useful in field battles too, just take into account general artillery weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by supadodo

The idiot stood just next to the 2nd wall line in a rather weird thin line formation with him at the front. Then wham --We have cut of the serpents head-- message appeared(I'm playing turks) Apparently a stray ball landed a perfect shot on him. Without their general, the bodyguard suffered heavy casualties due to morale loss.What are the chances of that??

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Yeah, that's always awesome...I mean, how cool is that when sometimes you haven't even engaged the enemy's main force yet while you've just suddenly killed their general 'cause he got hit by some giant rock from your catapults/trebuchets. It's the climax of the battle!...or not..you decide:laugh4:

I dunno, I have a bad habit of shooting my own generals. It's been a problem since RTW, although not always a bad thing...I remember trying to re-paganize Western Rome and being held up by a troublesome Christian general in Egypt that I nevertheless needed to hold off the hordes. He ended up getting immolated by friendly onager fire...whoopsie daisy!

Totaly off topic. :oops:
Sorry about this Goofball, but I just saw the title and had to ask because I don't understand. Why do people spell "the" as "teh"?, as in the thread title. It's not a spelling mistake, so I'm guessing I've missed something. Is it some kind of L33t talk?

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Originally Posted by Booga

I dunno, I have a bad habit of shooting my own generals. It's been a problem since RTW, although not always a bad thing...I remember trying to re-paganize Western Rome and being held up by a troublesome Christian general in Egypt that I nevertheless needed to hold off the hordes. He ended up getting immolated by friendly onager fire...whoopsie daisy!

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Now THAT'S a rare occurence in my opinion.....having lost your general because of friendly artillery fire.:skull:

In my battles, I take care to make sure that this kind of disaster doesn't even become a possibility.:book:

I had a thing for using mass onagers, for some reason. I found that experienced onagers could sometimes inflict as many casualties as archers, so I used them to compensate for the Roman factions' weakness thereof. I have a feeling I'm rather alone there, though.

Anyway, it wasn't friendly fire so much as "whoops, the firepot just sort of fell out of the basket, directly onto the general's head!" As though it magically lost all momentum and gravity took over. Like I said, few tears were shed - he was a real pain in the posterium, he even had holy relics and everything. He was holding Egypt but making it entirely too restless for comfort.

As for cannon, I just forget to have the artillery/gunners stop firing or just decide to run the risk anyway and the damn fool manages to get himself in the way of a cannonball. Part of a larger trend of being careless with generals, really.

I also had an enemy general get killed by rotten beef!! Flies were buzzing over his corpse. And they said eating too much beef kills? This guy ate half a cow at one go??

General: Haha by sunset we shall have this castle.
Soldier: General whats that greenish red thing in the sky?
General: Bah, thats some rotten beef. Don't worry it wont.....
***WHAMMO***
Soldier: Are you alright sir?
**A fat arse lies on the ground with flies buzzing around him**
General: I shouldn't have eaten all that beef in one go.
His heart cracks from all that fat and toxic.