Iraq Government Decapitates Saddam Associate During Hanging

I think this is really disgusting. Two of Saddam's associates who also did not get a legitimate trial were murdered just like Saddam was and one of them got decapitated during the hanging.


I wonder if perhaps this disgusting decapitation might be a sign from God that by the Iraq government brutally murdering it's enemies without so much as a legitimate, fair trial first, they are no better than the terrorists who also murder their victims by decapitation.

Here is an article about this atrocity.


Sunnis blast hanging of 2 Saddam aides

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sunnis blast hanging of 2 Saddam aides By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer


BAGHDAD, Iraq - The Iraqi government's attempt Monday to close a chapter on Saddam Hussein's repressive regime — by hanging two of his henchmen — left many of Saddam's fellow Sunni Muslims seething after the former leader's half brother was decapitated on the gallows.



A thickset Barzan Ibrahim plunged through the trap door and was beheaded by the jerk of the thick beige rope at the end of his fall, in the same the execution chamber where Saddam was hanged a little over two weeks earlier.

A government video of the hanging, played at a briefing for reporters, showed Ibrahim's body passing the camera in a blur. The body came to rest on its chest while the severed head lay a few yards away, still wearing the black hood pulled on moments before by one of Ibrahim's five masked executioners.

The decapitation appeared inadvertent, and Iraqi officials seemed anxious to prove they hadn't mutilated Ibrahim's remains.

By day's end at least 3,000 angry Sunnis, many firing guns in the air, others weeping or cursing the government, assembled for the burials of Ibrahim and al-Bandar in Saddam's hometown of Ouja, near Tikrit, 80 miles north of Baghdad.

The hangings came as a suicide car bomber slammed into an Iraqi army patrol in the northern city of Mosul Monday, killing seven people and wounding 40 others, police said. A total of at least 55 people were killed or found dead across Iraq, authorities said.

The U.S. military, meanwhile, announced the deaths of two more soldiers, both killed in Baghdad.

While Ibrahim's body was wrenched apart by the execution, his co-defendant, Awad Hamed al-Bandar, head of Saddam's Revolutionary court, died as expected — swinging at the end of a rope. Both men met death at 3 a.m. wearing reddish orange prison jumpsuits.

Prosecutor Jaafar al-Moussawi, who witnessed the hangings, said Ibrahim looked tense and protested his innocence as he was brought into the chamber. The condemned man had once ran Saddam's feared security agency, the Mukhabarat.

"I did not do anything," al-Moussawi quoted Ibrahim as saying. "It was all the work of Fadel al-Barrak." Al-Barrak ran two intelligence departments in Saddam's feared Mukhabarat.

Saddam was hanged amid shouted taunts and insults from Shiite witnesses — a scene Iraqi officials said was not repeated Monday.

All three executions took place in Saddam-era military intelligence headquarters, located in the north Baghdad neighborhood of Kazimiyah, a Shiite area.

The deaths aroused anger in mourners at the funerals of the former Iraqi officials.

"Where are those who cry out in demands for human rights?" Marwan Mohammed, one of the mourners, asked in grief and frustration. "Where are the U.N. and the world's human rights organizations? Barzan had cancer. They treated him only to keep him alive long enough to kill him. We vow to take revenge, even if it takes years."

Ibrahim's son-in-law, Azzam Saleh Abdullah, said "we heard the news from the media. We were supposed to be informed a day earlier, but it seems that this government does not know the rules."

The execution, he said, reflected what he called the Shiite-led government hatred for Sunnis. "They still want more Iraqi bloodshed," he said. "To hell with this democracy."

The executed men, at their request, were buried in a garden outside a building Saddam had built for religious events. Saddam was buried there on New Year's eve in a grave chipped out of an interior floor.

Ouja, just outside Tikrit — about a 90-minute drive north of Baghdad on the Tigris River — is near the scene of Saddam's capture by American soldiers in December 2003.

Saddam was discovered hiding in a small underground bunker nine months after he fled the U.S.-led invasion that toppled his regime.

Saddam, Ibrahim and al-Bandar were all handed the death sentence after their conviction for crimes against humanity, in connection with the killings of 148 Shiites in Dujail, north of Baghdad, in 1982 — following a failed assassination attempt there against Saddam.

Saddam was executed last month, four days after an Iraqi appeals court upheld the verdicts in the Dujail case. Reportedly, the court was under pressure from Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who wanted Saddam hanged before the end of 2006.

Iraqi Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi said Monday he should have been consulted before the executions were staged, because he and the two other members of Iraq's presidential council — President Jalal Talabani and Vice President Adil Abdul-Mahdi — had asked for the hangings to be delayed.

The execution video was shown to reporters Monday in an apparent attempt to prove that Ibrahim's corpse was not intentionally mutilated after death.

Video of Saddam's execution was broadcast worldwide. But Ali al-Dabbagh, the government spokesman, said there would be no similar public distribution of the video of Monday's hangings.

"We will not release the video, but we want to show the truth," he said. "The Iraqi government acted in a neutral way."

Monday's video was shown to reporters without sound — as was the official video of Saddam's execution in December. But al-Dabbagh said no taunts greeted Saddam's co-defendants.

"No one shouted slogans or said anything that would taint the execution," he said. "None of those charged were insulted."

The official video of Saddam's hanging was quickly pushed aside by a second one taken with a cell phone camera by a witnesses and leaked to the media. It showed the gallows floor opening, Saddam falling and swinging dead at the end of the rope.

Some of those in attendance could be heard taunting the former Sunni strongman with shouts of "Muqtada, Muqtada," an apparent reference to Muqtada al-Sadr, a radical Shiite cleric.

Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia is believed responsible for the deaths of thousands of Sunnis in the past year.

The unruly scene at Saddam's hanging drew worldwide protest and calls for Ibrahim and al-Bandar to be spared.

On Monday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Saddam's execution was mishandled and said she hoped that those who made cell phone videos of Saddam's execution would be punished.

"We were disappointed there was not greater dignity given to the accused under these circumstances," Rice said during a news conference with her Egyptian counterpart in Luxor, Egypt.

A spokeswoman for U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Monday he "regrets that despite pleas from both himself and the high commissioner for human rights to spare the lives of the two defendants, they were both executed."

After Saddam's execution, Human Rights Watch released a report calling the speedy trial and subsequent hanging of Saddam proof of the new Iraqi government's disregard for human rights.

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Associated Press correspondents Bassem Mroue and Qassim Abdul-Zahra contributed to this report.

Decapitation by hanging? How common is this?

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Originally Posted by GoreBag

Decapitation by hanging? How common is this?

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Seeing how thick the rope was that they hung Saddam with, and how it was placed on his neck. I'd say it is nearly impossible to decapitate them through hanging. Though I think our friend Nav here is trying to say breaking their necks by hanging. Generally speaking one of the least painfull, and quickest way's of being executed.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Seeing how thick the rope was that they hung Saddam with, and how it was placed on his neck. I'd say it is nearly impossible to decapitate them through hanging. Though I think our friend Nav here is trying to say breaking their necks by hanging. Generally speaking one of the least painfull, and quickest way's of being executed.

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No, I wasn't trying to say that because he was decapitated. If it is very uncommon then that's all the more likely that it is a sign from God that the Iraq government and US puppeteers are just as guilty as the terrorists who perform decapitations.

How unusually. I've only heard of it happening once before, in the Old West. It being decapitation by hanging.

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Originally Posted by discovery1

How unusually. I've only heard of it happening once before, in the Old West. It being decapitation by hanging.

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Indeed, I believe that would be the only time it's ever been recorded. Even that one case is debated as being only a myth. But it also took an exceptionally thin rope by standards and a very large man. Going to have to say unless you can produce some proof that the rope cut and severed his neck and spinal cord. That this happened post-mortem and those executioners mutilated his body.

There is a video recording of the hanging, and several Iraqi journalists have seen it.

Apparently, it's something that could happen pretty easily depending on the method and calculations used...

Read all about it: link.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Apparently, it's something that could happen pretty easily depending on the method and calculations used...

Read all about it: link.

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Thanks for the link Xahou. But it is generally prevented by placing a cloth between the neck and the rope. You saw that on Saddam. So unless they didn't place it there, or purposefully used thin rope and a higher drop, it wouldnt happen. The fact that the forces at work can be measured and the proper calculations are known about tends to mean this was meant on purpose. Quite sickening if it did actually occur from the rope and not post-mortem.

I doubt if it made any particular difference to mr. Ibrahim though.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Thanks for the link Xahou. But it is generally prevented by placing a cloth between the neck and the rope. You saw that on Saddam. So unless they didn't place it there, or purposefully used thin rope and a higher drop, it wouldnt happen. The fact that the forces at work can be measured and the proper calculations are known about tends to mean this was meant on purpose. Quite sickening if it did actually occur from the rope and not post-mortem.

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Indeed, many people are questioning just how they could have got it so badly wrong. After the debacle of Saddam, the last thing they needed to do was hash it up again, but hey presto. Even more intelligent, they dressed the condemned in orange jump suits, thus linking Guantanamo Bay and the US with these brutal acts of vengeance. How many proto-jihadists will now conflate the two? Is it actually possible to think of a way to better this stuff as a terrorist recruitment drive?

:bomb:

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Originally Posted by Navaros

I wonder if perhaps this disgusting decapitation might be a sign from God that by the Iraq government brutally murdering it's enemies without so much as a legitimate, fair trial first, they are no better than the terrorists who also murder their victims by decapitation.

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Signs from God have a funny way of being open to interpretation. Whereas many Sunnis may agree with you, the Shia appear to be taking it as a sign that God wanted the body to be desecrated as punishment for the wickedness that this man inflicted on innocent people. Which, as the head of Saddam's secret police, there is no doubt about, despite the evident flaws of the trial process.

:shrug:

I presume Mr Ibrahim was a rather bulky chap? In this case the rope was probably too long. When people are hanged, death is actually supposed to happen fairly quickly, as the drop snaps the neck. This is where a little bt of calculation is required - if the rope is too short, not enough speed is built up, and the executee ends up being choked to death. If the rope is too long, too much speed is built up, and, well, pop.

Of course, an experienced executioner would also be able to plan for either eventuality, if he/she so desired.

It's all a bit of an art really...

The man doesn't actually look particularly corpulent in photos of the trials I've seen though. About the same as for example his half-brother Saddam.

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Is it actually possible to think of a way to better this stuff as a terrorist recruitment drive?

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Makes you wonder doesn't it...

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Indeed, many people are questioning just how they could have got it so badly wrong. After the debacle of Saddam, the last thing they needed to do was hash it up again, but hey presto. Even more intelligent, they dressed the condemned in orange jump suits, thus linking Guantanamo Bay and the US with these brutal acts of vengeance. How many proto-jihadists will now conflate the two? Is it actually possible to think of a way to better this stuff as a terrorist recruitment drive?

:bomb:

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Precisely.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

If it is very uncommon then that's all the more likely that it is a sign from God that the Iraq government and US puppeteers are just as guilty as the terrorists who perform decapitations.

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If God wrote the Bible, why is he restricted to sign language these days? :dozey:

Millions die unobserved, uncared for, without a strain of mercy or justice shown them in any way by anyone, and we're supposed to spend our finite compassion and precious moments in thoughtful application of justice and human rights to the types of people who make those millions die?

Not a chance. If I feel the need to show compassion, there are a billion people waiting right now who are far more deserving of it then Saddam Hussein's beer buddies.

Amen. They got it better than any of their victims.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

Millions die unobserved, uncared for, without a strain of mercy or justice shown them in any way by anyone, and we're supposed to spend our finite compassion and precious moments in thoughtful application of justice and human rights to the types of people who make those millions die?

Not a chance. If I feel the need to show compassion, there are a billion people waiting right now who are far more deserving of it then Saddam Hussein's beer buddies.

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The point is not that anyone feels compassion towards the executed, but that the botched manner of the executions will lead to many more of the innocent dying.

And I would venture that the application of thoughtful justice and human rights is exactly what is supposed to differentiate us from those monsters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtBpiz0J8w0

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Indeed, many people are questioning just how they could have got it so badly wrong. After the debacle of Saddam, the last thing they needed to do was hash it up again, but hey presto. Even more intelligent, they dressed the condemned in orange jump suits, thus linking Guantanamo Bay and the US with these brutal acts of vengeance. How many proto-jihadists will now conflate the two? Is it actually possible to think of a way to better this stuff as a terrorist recruitment drive?

:bomb:

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Hmmm... an infiltrator with influence on the execution of the prisoners? Saddams hanging and now this...

Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

The point is not that anyone feels compassion towards the executed, but that the botched manner of the executions will lead to many more of the innocent dying.

And I would venture that the application of thoughtful justice and human rights is exactly what is supposed to differentiate us from those monsters.

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I very much doubt there could be more hatred and sectarian violence than is taking place right now. The only thing keeping a lid on it at all is the presence of coalition forces. None of the combatants seems to need much prompting to justify and create another "snuff film". When they proclaim martyrdom and hero worship for such people that have probably killed more people than anyone living today, many victims were Sunni also, and at the same time cheer when innocents of other sects are filmed being murdered doesn't give either side much credibility to me. The current Iraqi government refuses to arrest and disarm violent militias from their own sect, so they have no legitimacy. One can lead a horse to water, but cannot make him drink.

Before the elections of the current Iraqi government, the coalition had a "no capital punishment" policy in place. After the elections the Iraqi government changed this, as was their right. So unless one identifies with being an Iraqi, whatever that is, I don't understand the "us" designation.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

And I would venture that the application of thoughtful justice and human rights is exactly what is supposed to differentiate us from those monsters.

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But it wasn’t “us” that popped this guys head off. This is something that “they” have to do, although we might want to send them a consultant or something.

Sheesh, if they can’t even get executions right is it any wonder their military is taking so long to train.

If they have to one day protect themselves from the likes of Syria and Iran theri only hope is that Iran and Syria are dee dee dee too.

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Before the elections of the current Iraqi government, the coalition had a "no capital punishment" policy in place.

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That is because there was no constitution in place that allowed for such judicial punishments , and the majority of the coilition members would not allow such a policy under their provisional authority since they are nationaly opposed to the death penalty .

After viewing the hanging of Saddam, I explained here that I was dissapointed with the process. It was unprofessional and provided yet another easy target for propoganda against our interests.

And now this. I am truly taken aback by the incompetence of my government at its highest levels. I have no doubt that the United States holds plenty of leverage in advising the Iraqi government on its own policy implementation. Even if, and this is a big if, the United States has less control than we assume, the perception of influence in the new Iraqi government is enough so that this incident further damages United States credibility.

The War on Terrorism is a complex, multi-dimensional, asymmetrical global conflict. It requires our diligence, professionalism, and integrity on every front- media, economic, and military.


These two failures of character have been a disastrous loss, as equally damaging as a military defeat.

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

After viewing the hanging of Saddam, I explained here that I was dissapointed with the process. It was unprofessional and provided yet another easy target for propoganda against our interests.

And now this. I am truly taken aback by the incompetence of my government at its highest levels. I have no doubt that the United States holds plenty of leverage in advising the Iraqi government on its own policy implementation. Even if, and this is a big if, the United States has less control than we assume, the perception of influence in the new Iraqi government is enough so that this incident further damages United States credibility.

The War on Terrorism is a complex, multi-dimensional, asymmetrical global conflict. It requires our diligence, professionalism, and integrity on every front- media, economic, and military.


These two failures of character have been a disastrous loss, as equally damaging as a military defeat.

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Well said. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

After viewing the hanging of Saddam, I explained here that I was dissapointed with the process. It was unprofessional and provided yet another easy target for propoganda against our interests.

And now this. I am truly taken aback by the incompetence of my government at its highest levels. I have no doubt that the United States holds plenty of leverage in advising the Iraqi government on its own policy implementation. Even if, and this is a big if, the United States has less control than we assume, the perception of influence in the new Iraqi government is enough so that this incident further damages United States credibility.
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I agree with what you say, but i feel a bit sorry for the US government on this one, they want to make the process look, or even let the process be run by the Iraq government, and when the Iraqi government does it a different way to what we expect (and below standards really) both groups get criticized. If they take a more active role they get criticized for controlling the Iraqi government etc. they just cant win whatever they do... :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

The point is not that anyone feels compassion towards the executed...

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The opening post expressed sentiments along those lines.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

And I would venture that the application of thoughtful justice and human rights is exactly what is supposed to differentiate us from those monsters.

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Agreed. On paper it's a perfect and noble enterprise - freedom, justice, and human rights for all. In real life it's unattainable. Our nature does not allow us to give justice to all. My complaint is that what limited effort we do expend on justice and human rights is often expended in the wrong place. The world weeps at the injustice of Saddam and his friends hanging but has little more than a "who?" when mention is made of their victims.

Granted, any effort at justice itself is a noble one, but are we so dumbstruck by the symbology of justice applied that we cannot use better and more realistic judgement in its application?

Saddam Hussein and his friends get lawyers and international covergage and rallies in their defence but the poor SOB who was tortured by them gets a used tea bag and a cup of cold water for consolation.

What happened to Ceausescu of Romania is how these matter should be dealt with. They caught him and shot him and dumped him in an unmarked grave. No fuss, no muss, case closed, get on with fixing what they broke.

He should have been found to have 'killed himself' just before the US forces got him, or given a proper trial.

None of this thinly veiled revenge. It's just turned him into a martyr. He even managed to look quite respectable and sensible and friendly.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

The opening post expressed sentiments along those lines.

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I didn't read that in the post, but fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

Agreed. On paper it's a perfect and noble enterprise - freedom, justice, and human rights for all. In real life it's unattainable. Our nature does not allow us to give justice to all. My complaint is that what limited effort we do expend on justice and human rights is often expended in the wrong place. The world weeps at the injustice of Saddam and his friends hanging but has little more than a "who?" when mention is made of their victims.

Granted, any effort at justice itself is a noble one, but are we so dumbstruck by the symbology of justice applied that we cannot use better and more realistic judgement in its application?

Saddam Hussein and his friends get lawyers and international covergage and rallies in their defence but the poor SOB who was tortured by them gets a used tea bag and a cup of cold water for consolation.

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As you say, it's the nature of things. I can't disagree with your sentiments, but I'm not sure that should excuse us from trying.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

What happened to Ceausescu of Romania is how these matter should be dealt with. They caught him and shot him and dumped him in an unmarked grave. No fuss, no muss, case closed, get on with fixing what they broke.

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On a purely pragmatic level, shooting Saddam in his hole would have been a reasonable choice. I still believe however, that the trial (however flawed) was (or at least would have been in a stable and hopeful Iraq) essential to confronting and exorcising the ghosts of the past. Imprisoning him and his associates with hard labour - as I suggested some while ago, the digging up of all the bodies of his victims from their mass graves, and their reburial would have been a good task for the rest of his life - would have punished him far more than a quick death, and removed any martyrdom element. He would have just been another broken old man shifting dirt.

Saddam and Co. should have been turned over to the Hague. His crimes were against his people, his region, the world, and humanity.

I understand the desire to empower the Iraqi government, but all this botched job has done is fuel further rage. Life in prison in a foreign ally would have been fine with me.

The credibility of international review would have been well worth it.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

I didn't read that in the post, but fair enough.

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Navaros wrote: I think this is really disgusting. Two of Saddam's associates who also did not get a legitimate trial were murdered just like Saddam was and one of them got decapitated during the hanging.

I think my impression was fair.

I can't argue with your sentiments, BG, and I don't mean to. You're right. My problem is that even if you are right, it's all still so wrong. Human nature I guess.

Fair trial? He deserves nothing but a firing squad. Scratch that, hes not worth the bullets, much less money it takes to hire the judge. Do it Crassus style, with cudgels.

Pop goes that weasel. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by holybandit

Fair trial? He deserves nothing but a firing squad. Scratch that, hes not worth the bullets, much less money it takes to hire the judge. Do it Crassus style, with cudgels.

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Why do you hate freedom ?

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Why do you hate freedom ?

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Why do you love crazy dictators?

Why do I apparently need to explain why a fair trial is important period, no exceptions ?

My first impression was that this guy was left to rot for so long that his neck gave way from the stress, but then, that would hardly be news, or even a 'professional execution' for that matter. With what was he hanged? Was he really heavy? Weighed down with oats? An anvil, perhaps? You guys are all missing the point.

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Originally Posted by GoreBag

My first impression was that this guy was left to rot for so long that his neck gave way from the stress, but then, that would hardly be news, or even a 'professional execution' for that matter. With what was he hanged? Was he really heavy? Weighed down with oats? An anvil, perhaps? You guys are all missing the point.

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He didnt look too fat. Perhaps Saddam did some weight-lifting in prison?

:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by GoreBag

My first impression was that this guy was left to rot for so long that his neck gave way from the stress, but then, that would hardly be news, or even a 'professional execution' for that matter. With what was he hanged? Was he really heavy? Weighed down with oats? An anvil, perhaps? You guys are all missing the point.

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None of these things are necessary. It is well documented that decapitation is likely to occur during a hanging if the drop is too long. The executions were rushed and no-one bothered to make the necessary calculations, probably because they were more afraid of the implications of a too-short rope - ie slow strangulation.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

None of these things are necessary. It is well documented that decapitation is likely to occur during a hanging if the drop is too long. The executions were rushed and no-one bothered to make the necessary calculations, probably because they were more afraid of the implications of a too-short rope - ie slow strangulation.

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A highly probably case. Hanging if done properly is quick, with very little mess. It also involves very little pain. But the amount of a fit that liberal's would throw if the hanging had been botched in the other direction would have been incredible. Death by strangulation would take a few minutes, and it would not be quiet.

Though the drop to weight ratio isnt that hard to do, and it is also very forgiving in both directions. But still the cases that happened out west involved them not using that small bit of cloth between the neck and the rope. That will go a very long way to preventing decapitation and even rope burn and disfigurement of the body. This was more then likely an attempt to defile a baathist by the sunni's.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

What happened to Ceausescu of Romania is how these matter should be dealt with. They caught him and shot him and dumped him in an unmarked grave. No fuss, no muss, case closed, get on with fixing what they broke.

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This is exactly why rough justice advocates keep shooting themselves in the foot - pun intended. Rough justice only seems robust and adequate from a distance and without knowledge of the particulars. Close up, the picture quickly becomes blurred and rough justice often turns out to be no justice at all.

Ceauşescu was quickly disposed of by former associates in order to silence him and prevent a resolute break with the past. Former Communists took over the country and thwarted any attempts to hold Securitate killers to account for their recent misdeeds. No wonder that rumours that the KGB had overseen the Ceauşescu execution were rife, and still are.

By contrast, the 'Velvet Revolution' in former Tchekoslowakia (without bloodshed, kangaroo trials and days of reckoning) constituted a real break with the past.