Microsoft has released vista, dose anybody care and will you be buying it. Has anybody tried it because a friend of mine has and he crashed it within 10 minuets.
the bbc has a bit of info
Printable View
Microsoft has released vista, dose anybody care and will you be buying it. Has anybody tried it because a friend of mine has and he crashed it within 10 minuets.
the bbc has a bit of info
I read a review on it. I won't get it, but it will start to show up on the newer computers(of course). Bill Gates was on The Daily Show last night and they were talking about it. I'll find the video later.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieFriedNuts
I won't get it, XP can last for about 5 years now, by that time I might buy a new PC and get the new thing with it
i wont buy it... its like 350$ even if i wanted it i couldnt afford it... :P
My PC struggles with M:TW, has to search through it's memory to find the tinest little bit of RAM for R:TW and EB almost burns my computer to ashes. Henceforth I will not be getting Vista, it's not that I don't want to, it's more than I can't - my PC can't run it.
Not until DX10 Games start coming out enmass.
I'm expecting my next PC upgrade won't be including Vista. I think it'll be at least a couple years until gamers are forced into buying it.
Don't care until release of the first Service Pack 1 for Vista to solve security problems (like in every version of Win in the past). :book:
MS is really hyping this baby like it's the next coming of Baby Jesus. I spotted a massive, state of the art RV splattered with MS and Vista logos right outside my place of work yesterday morning (corner of 44th & Broadway). I'm sure they were trying to get the word out with flyers, freebies, demos and other assorted silliness. Hey you, come over here and let me show you a good reason for plunking down a few hundred bucks for this gizmo that costs a ton and will run slower on your PC than XP! Wheeee!
MS has, in part, failed to realize that OSes are not like cars or TVs where incremental advances in technology can become a huge selling point for consumers. Most people don't give a hoot what an OS can do so long as it is stable and runs their favorite applications with nary a hiccup. However, there are clearly some at MS who saw the writing on the wall which is why DX10 is a Vista only application. Unlike the average computer user hardcore gamers come from the same stock as car & gizmo junkies in that they are obsessed with anything which will improve their perceived experience, regardless of whether those improvements justify the expense (i.e. the uber-expensive Crossfire/SLI phenomenon).
I agree, DX10 games won't be a factor for at least another year, possibly longer.
You're forgetting the sheeple mentioned in the iPhone thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spino
The general public are all muppets who believe New > Old.
I personally believe it's all a great conspiracy between M$ and hardware manufacturers. Release an OS that they know a whole load of people will want to buy, but requires a new and very expensive computer to run, while having all these hardware products endorsed by M$, thus allowing them to recieve a slice of the sweet pie.
XP to the death! It can last for about 5-6 years i bet.
I have it but I want to get a new HDD for it first, I want to keep this one for XP for now.
My University is a part of the Microsoft Developer Network Academic Alliance (MSDNAA), so I can legally get a free copy of Windows Vista Business, as well as a lot other stuff.:yes: I only found out this today.
I may end up getting it in 2-3 years, but there's no way I'm going to "beta test" Vista. I'm building a machine in the next couple of months, and it's getting XP Pro. There is no upside to Vista, it's a pig, it's got restrictive DRM, and it's ready to be exploited.
Moved.
But Bill Gates said it's been thoroughly tested, so there's no need to wait. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
As a gamer, I'd guess it's gonna be roughly 3yrs until everyone is forced into DX10. I keep hoping for "never" instead of 3yrs, but you've gotta be realistic. :yes:
Ditto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakizashi
no it costs 1 GB of memory i believe, and games with Shader 3.0 model such as Oblivion will still be worth playing for long.
It took me so long to move onto XP that it will probably take me longer to move onto Vista. All of the Windows Genuine Advantage stuff is likely to get even more annoying though surely? Anyone heard any info on that?
Well, that's where I got mine from.:2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Doctor
I am staying well, well away from Vista until I am obliged to upgrade for DX10 games. I really can't believe the extent to which MS have gone for form over function-you know you're in trouble when your new OS's big selling point is 'Transparencies! Woo!'
Heh. Vista Schmista.
Those transparencies look nice, though. I must-- resist-- getting-- Vis-- ta. . . .
Arrgh! That's it! I'm gonna get it, just for the graphics! I mean, truly, it IS a GREAT OS improvement, isn't it?
It is worthless to just go out and buy Vista now. Better to wait at least until after the first service pack so the problems it has can be worked out. I am probably gonna get it when i upgrade my pc in a year or two
I think there were more points when I tried the beta but since that was a while ago I forgot about them. Not saying they were big points though. It just felt better here and there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
i will play old gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Wakizashi
I'm still kinda nostalgic for Win2k. It had it all, and it ran like greased lightning on everything. Is it wrong to feel a little resentful for having to move to XP? Obviously, I'm going to take my sweet effin' time with Vista. Apparently there is no technical reason why DX10 can't work on XP, so maybe I'll just hang around waiting to see if Microsoft blinks on the issue. Unlikely, I know, but possible.
If you want to read up on the V word, I don't think there's a more comprehensive review than this one.
Considering that most of vista's features are focused on buisnesses, i'll hold off until games start relying on dx10
Even if they don't, I imagine someone will hack it at some point.Quote:
Apparently there is no technical reason why DX10 can't work on XP, so maybe I'll just hang around waiting to see if Microsoft blinks on the issue. Unlikely, I know, but possible.
No reason at all, as far as I can tell either. This is quite simply a ruse to force more XP users onto Vista. Having achieved a virtual monopoly with their graphics API they are now in a position to dictate as to what you buy and when.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
City-hystery caused by the arrival of Bill Gates in February. In Bucharest, on Magheru Avenue, instead of Christmas lights, we have Windows logos. At least 50 logos on the avenue, because Gates is gonna come to launch Vista.
~:|
Pope Gates I, ensures that all Cathosoft factions adhere to the code or face excommunication. Once excommunicated other Cathosoft factions can then crusade against that faction. Otholinux and Maclim factions cannot crusade, but can do what they like without the Pope's approval... they may find crusades heading their way though. The Cathosoft code involves the usual indoctrination, invading the users' privacy and working it's way into every part of their lives.
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
Well, it either shows that Microsoft does have a fanbase or that there are many greedy romanians who want Bill to adopt their children and/or kidnap him.:sweatdrop:
I completely agree. Win 2000 w/SP4 is probably the best MS OS so far, but they abandoned support for it. :thumbsdown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Gota say that Win2k3 gets my vote... Compared to Win2k I find it a rock solid server OS...Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
Back to Vista... I got it (just because I am a total sucker for new and shinny things) and am still fighting it onto my system...
Upgrade from WinXP Pro to Vista Ultimate took forever... And it is not a slow machine...
I have vista drivers for MB chipset and NIC and the beta X-FI driver from creative and the latest nVidia driver for my 8800GTX also for vista.
Downloading updates for logitech (my G7 mouse just stopped working with it) and the latest version of nTune...
Worst issue so far... It would appear some content protection widget in Vista does not allow you to view an HD signal via component video. The DVI - HDMI HDCP link thingy seems to be working though except I have it hooked up to be 40" HDTV and using DVI-HDMI you loss some of the visable area off the edges of the screen (a TV thing apparantly). The Component HD connection could compensate for that but as above it no longer appears to function. I thought it was something wrong wth the driver but found info on line about issues with HD output and component connections and vista...
rofl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
Brilliant. :bow:
Nice one Caravel :yes:
Still, you have to admit that most microsoft products are good, even if you don't like them ;)
I've never understood this idea/theory/opinion/whatever, that Win2K/SP4 was the best ever. With some minor tweaking I can turn XP/SP2 into what is effectively a newer, faster, more secure, updated, stable version of Win2K/SP4 so I'm not sure why some people still cling on to it? Am I missing something here? :listen:Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
@ Caravel: Brilliant.
My PC can't run Vista. My friend has a Macbook, and the irony is that it runs vista better than OSX.
I was on Windows 98 until a year ago.
So, no, I don't think I'll be rushing out any time soon...
Anyway, what about all this broken by design DRM stuff? Buying Vista is inviting The Man to tell you what you can do with your own PC :furious3:
@assassin - not for a long time - enforcing hdcp now would kill the industry
*remembers that he needs to write a debate speech praising laws against music file sharing in the next few days and sighs
My friend has a friend thats a Microsoft Developer (i can say that right? :laugh4:) so he somehow got a copy of the beta of Vista. Looked cool...but now with the connectivity and security issues...I might stay with XP. At least that gets out the trojans et al..albeit with at least five virus protection software running 24/7....
I'll be waiting for a long while yet. It's expensive, I barely use a PC right now, and as for games there's still a huge backcatalogue of great games I've yet to buy before I could care particularly about the next generation.
No, you don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapi
You read my mind..Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
And.. Nice one! :laugh4:
Quote:
Pope Gates I, ensures that all Cathosoft factions adhere to the code or face excommunication. Once excommunicated other Cathosoft factions can then crusade against that faction. Otholinux and Maclim factions cannot crusade, but can do what they like without the Pope's approval... they may find crusades heading their way though. The Cathosoft code involves the usual indoctrination, invading the users' privacy and working it's way into every part of their lives.
As Sun Tzu would say: "Those skilled in programming do not release the same OS twice, or patch the same security hole three times."
:bow:
:tomato:
:creep:
Sure, you can turn off services and de-glitter XP until it feels exactly like Win2K, but that's sort of missing the point. Win2K had all of the essentials that make an MS operating system worthwhile, and almost none of the crapware. You could load it on your grandma's PC, spend less than twenty minutes configuring it, and it would run forever. It was the just-right OS, in this Lemur's opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
You call XP a "newer, faster, more secure, updated stable version" of the Holy Grail, Win2K. Let's break that string of adjectives down.
Newer? By definition. So what?
Faster? No, not really, and not in any test I've ever seen published. Default installs of XP are slower than default installs of Win2K. And don't go whinging about how you can reconfigure the OS to be less of a hog; that's beside the point. (And remember, when your friend fries his laptop and asks you for help, it's the default install you'll be dealing with.)
More secure? Marginally, and only because MS stopped releasing updates for Win2K, but with a little TLC you can still secure the OS just fine, thanks very much. It's not as though you want to run WinXP with no 3rd party security, either.
Updated? By definition, but its day will come, and sooner rather than later, especially if users stay away from Vista in droves. MS has no reason not to make XP look bad in the next couple of years.
Stable? Win2K was rock-solid. I worked with it for years, and the only applications that could take it down to the metal were Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer. I never saw a non-Microsoft app take it out. Same goes for XP. I think it's a tie.
Does this help you understand why some of us old geezers have a soft spot for Win2K?
Unfortunately that is not entirely true. The API and the functionality will port, given the right graphics card, but Microsoft radically changed the graphics driver model in Vista, moving the drivers from ring 0 to ring 3. This has completely revamped the performance characteristics of the API... calls that used to be really expensive to make are suddenly dirt cheap because you avoid the kernel mode transitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
The end result is that an engine written for DirectX 10 on Vista would run fantastically slowly on a hypothetical DirectX 10 for Windows XP - and by fantastically I mean at around 20-30% of the fps. Sorry about that :) Although I have heard some rumours that there may be an updated DirectX 9 which includes some of the new hardware capabilities introduced in DX10.
Enfin... Total War games will support DirectX 9 for a good while yet, so no real reason to worry.
An update to my post...
Well Vista is all up and running and such, drivers updated etc... And M2TW totally works fine so I am happy... :2thumbsup:
And the Midway demo functions too...
I will play around with other games and stuff this evening...
Additional: the flick3D thingy gets my vote for most sucky feature so far...
And it rates my machine as 5.1!!! What on earth does that mean???
Apparant it was limited to 5.1 because on my processor... My Intel Core 2 Extreme x6800 processor... :help:
I wasn't planning to whinge. I never whinge! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
I stand by my original statement though. Win2k and XP are basically much the same animal: Windows NT5.x. With all of the crap stripped away and properly optimized XP is the better OS.
Now don't get me wrong I'm not an XP fanboy, or a Windows fanboy even. I just happen to think that, at present XP is the best of a bad lot.
:bow:
FWIW, I've always liked XP better as well. When 2000 came out, I used it alot at work but never felt like upgrading from Win98 at home. It was when XP came out that I saw an OS that felt worth upgrading for. And I definitely prefer 2003 server to 2000 server.
Article from HardOCP on Vista.
http://consumer.hardocp.com/article....xoY29uc3VtZXI=
Not too flattering.
Ugh, this is sad news. So there's no practical way to get the new driver model ... without buying into the DRM junk bundled with the new OS. Which means that if I want the shiny goodness, I have to purchase a video card with a %#$@*#%! tilt-bit built into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke
I guess I'll be sticking with DX9 for a while. Not only will it save me money, but it won't leave that icky pigopolist taste in my mouth.
Guess who I work for. :creep:
Vista has this User Access Control setting that is on by default... What a pain it is...
I am using an admin account but trying to do anything remotely admin like involves having vista bombard you with dialogs asking if you really want to do o it and to grant the admin privilage to do it or something along those lines...
Things got a lot more normal after I disabled that...
That article summarized my feelings pretty exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
The only amusing thing I've seen in relation to this cluster-suck from Microsoft was the Romanian President telling Gates what a boon software piracy has been for his country. If I didn't check the URL, I would have sworn it was from The Onion.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I'm afraid it's a case if M$ releasing the same OS yet again with a few extra gimmicks and toys, which is not what people want from an OS. With DirectX10 as the added bit of leverage.
DX10 seems to be the only leverage. I don't know why I find this so upsetting, but I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
Well, there's the 64-bit capabilities as well, you might feasibly want it for that. But in general, yes, the way DX10 is being used to ram the operating system down people's throats is rather breathtakingly cynical.
Nope, that's not strictly true. It's DX10, pure and simple. I feel a need to fall on my knees like Chuck Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes and do some screaming about how "you blew it up."Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
Unfortunately what we have is a narrowing of the market. Very few options out their and the leaders are very much into the propriety stick one way or the other.
I would love to see a market where gaming and enterprise level computers could be a mix of any apps on any OS on any hardware... as long as each level had the grunt not the makers mark to run it.
I couldn't believe my ears when I heard the president of my country say that on national TV. :thumbsdown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
There would still be a need for standardization or otherwise the programming work would be really hard I think. As it is now, there already needs to be optimizing for different hardware, by throwing more differences into the mix, the bugs may become more and more on certain configs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Standardisation does have it's good sides after all.
:laugh4: No offense to anyone who has already, but you'd have to be the world's biggest sucker to buy Vista before SP2.
SP1 will come out before Christmas, you can count on that 110% (most people wait until SP1 to purchase software, you do the math). SP2 will come out about 6 months later.
Until then, you are all beta testers suckered with cute Aero interfaces. :laugh4:
(All of my information comes from my Dad, who worked on Vista back when it was named after texas cattle).
"No offence", but it appears to me that you've just turned up here to state the obvious, troll the thread and make us all aware that "daddy works for Ms". :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTa
I'm sure he didn't intend any hard feelings. So let's take none! ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
A nice smiley would be the best course of action.. <-- Me thinks! :idea2:
Thanks for the info, PaulTa! :clown:
im probably not gonna buy vista until Cod3 comes out on pc, because word has it it will be vista only!! which is why it is not out yet
plus if shogun 2 is on vista only, then vista will end up getting 100s of new customers
Actually, I suspect some people's aversion to a potentially destructive OS is likely to be stronger than his/her love of the Total War games.Quote:
Originally Posted by General Boreaus Brittanicus
Moreover, Jerome just guaranteed us in this very thread that CA will be releasing games on DX9 for some time yet. Wonderful thing to know, that.
I would not touch Vista with a ten-foot pole. I might get the cheapest version for gaming purproses only, after games that I want to have start making heavy use of DX10, but it will probably be quite a while before that point.
I rather doubt that. From what I've read, the DRM crap in Vista has to be integrated into new sound and graphics hardware, which drives up development costs; this should show in the price tag of the products, narrowing the market and making people more reluctant to upgrade.Quote:
I personally believe it's all a great conspiracy between M$ and hardware manufacturers. Release an OS that they know a whole load of people will want to buy, but requires a new and very expensive computer to run, while having all these hardware products endorsed by M$, thus allowing them to recieve a slice of the sweet pie.
Didn't that already happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEel
My 7950Gt has "HDTV" and "HDCP" written on the package so I guess that incorporation is already done and to be honest, I didn't really notice it.
The thing that everyone misses in the vista DRM debate is that if vista didn't support it, you wouldn't be able to watch anything, even if you had the right hardware
why cant we play games like Halo 2 and CoD3 on XP too? i hear its only Vista!
Halo 2 is a dx10 tech demo (so it's meant to only run on dx10 and thus vista)
not sure about CoD3 though
You'd need a new gfx card to play them anyway :laugh4:
Well, in that case everybody would complain about being unable to watch new movies on Vista and how the big evil Microsoft screwed it up so much etc.:sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by sapi
Exactly :laugh4:
Way to over-simplify the issues involved! Bravo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Look, the providers of technology need to negotiate with the content providers over where and how much to restrict our ability to use technology as designed. This has been going on for decades. What gets people like me riled up is the way Microsoft bent over backwards for the content providers, and gave them everything they demanded and then some.
It's supposed to be a negotiation, not a capitulation. But if you want to see peoples' concern about Vista DRM as blind, stupid Microsoft-bashing, well, that's your privilege.
Sounds like a great business chance for Apple... so what are they doing with the content providers.
No, I'm not a big fan of that decision either, but I can accept it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Concerning their negotiations, we don't really know how they went, who was doing them and who influenced who by which means etc. so I wouldn't judge that too fast either.
I also wonder what happened to TCPA?
Wasn't that supposed to be included in the next Microsoft OS?
I'd just hate Vista telling me I cannot install for example Mount&Blade simply because the devs didn't pay a few millions to Microsoft or whoever is responsible for that.
I have yet to see an unbiased review of Vista that actually gave it a solid thumbs up. Were I ordering a new computer anytime soon, I'd want it loaded with XP, not Vista. And if it's as bloated as so many are saying that it is, XP could possibly be my last MS OS. :shrug:
Here's an amusing little story that cites anonymous Microsoft executives complaining about computer makers installing non-MS approved applications on their computers. I like how they refer to 3rd party applications as "craplets"- really classy. Sounds to me like they're trying to get out ahead in the upcoming finger-pointing by blaming software makers if their software no longer works in Vista. If only they had paid their protection money to Microsoft, they wouldn't have this problem. :rolleyes:
I'm having a friend who builds systems slap me together a small, cheap laptop. For the same cost he can load it with Vista or XP (don'tcha love how MS keeps old licenses as expensive or more expensive than the new ones?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
You can guess from my previous posts which way I'm going on this. For the same price, XP is a much better deal.
Its to do with the way business licenses are done. You now pay $X per seat which gets you access to the OS and/or Office Products of any supported version.
As before you never buy software you buy a license to use it. I don't think car licenses are based on the car type you drive...
I am annoyed with Supreme Commander now. New game from the makers of TA.
Minimum specs have XP. Reccomended have Vista :angry:
I believe it's to do with the games for windows branding - it makes absolutely no difference (and the vista version will probably run worse)