The Shooting in Utah...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070214...e_070214033710
Interestiung news. I have a feeling will be seeing more of these "random" attacks. It appears that this young man was also involved in a religious belief system that seems to be in the news lately for its strange tendency to deviate from its supposed "message". I wouldn't call it a violent religion since I've been schooled and trained to be tolerant of other's beliefs and the immediate alergic reaction I get from orange prison uniforms and sharp utensils slicing at my neck...
Question:
Do you think this is an random act or will we be seeing much more religious expression and the attempt of the media to frame it as some sort of random act?

It will be interesting to see what motivation he had - just plain crazy, or 'sudden jihad syndrome', ala the Seattle Jewish Center killer.

I wonder what idiots will call for more gun control - though I wouldn't mind if they called for strict controls on the weapon he used.

CR

Now, Dave, you're insinuating that he shot because he was a Muslim, are you?

Where does it say the kid is Muslim? It says he's Bosnian but Bosnia is not a 100% Muslim country.

The World Fact Book reports

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Muslim 40%, Orthodox 31%, Roman Catholic 15%, other 14%

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so your assumption has a 60% chance of being wrong. But you aren't the racist type who would assume a number of things about someone because of their race or because of the religion you guess they follow.

Valentines day... either he is a gangster or another rejected kid...

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Valentines day... either he is a gangster or another rejected kid...

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Or a wanna be gangster. Besides, those killed weren't mob members.

Salt Lake City is getting more and more violent every day...I am glad I live in St. George, where it is still nice and quiet.

Well, from the description

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Originally Posted by article

"He was totally calm and didn't seem to be upset or mad or anything. He was just completely tranquil. It was so bizarre," said Marie Smith, the manager of a toiletries store.

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I would guess he had left this world already for a better one.
That better one could be his 72 new wives or just some hideout in the depth of his brain that had no real connection to reality anymore.
Before jumping to conclusions I would wait a little bit until the police have done their work, Dave.
What about the shooting in Philadelphia btw?
That was an unknown office worker it seems, but I found it strange that both happened on the same day, pure coincidence?

I really dissected that article and found no mention of religion at all, so have to assume either external sources of information thare are not linked or a wild leaping-to-conclusions are at work here. Shurly not?

Since the kid's dead it's gonna be pretty hard to interrogate him about his motives. But I'd reckon from past experiences of "school kid shoots up random strangers" he's just fully integrated into the American way of doing things.

Of course, connecting Utah and wierd religious communities generally makes me leap to quite a different group to DD's favourite scapegoats.

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Solejman Talovic

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I'm not an expert on Balkan nameology, but I do believe this is a distincly Muslim Bosnian name.

But that simply denotes his heritage, not necessarily his religious convinction. I'm not going to speculate about this guy's motives, or the possible role of any religious persuasion he may or may not have.

It's very sad, but I don't think there is something any government, an institution or society as a whole can possibly do against crazy, psychopatic lunatics.

:stupido2: Nah, who am I kidding, we all know it are those violent video games that are to blame! GTA, Total War etc. They should ban all that crap !

If you will excuse me now, I am about to become the next president of the USA

:creep:

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Originally Posted by JimBob

Where does it say the kid is Muslim? It says he's Bosnian but Bosnia is not a 100% Muslim country.

The World Fact Book reports so your assumption has a 60% chance of being wrong. But you aren't the racist type who would assume a number of things about someone because of their race or because of the religion you guess they follow.

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I guess he was Morman then since he lived in Utah, right?

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

I guess he was Morman then since he lived in Utah, right?

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Sounds possible. The first of a wave of mad-Morman massacres?

Hehe.

You Americans and your love of killing people with guns. Look how quickly it spreads to those exposed to it.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

It will be interesting to see what motivation he had - just plain crazy, or 'sudden jihad syndrome', ala the Seattle Jewish Center killer.

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That would be Mr Haq, right?

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At about 4 p.m. on July 28, on the eve of the Jewish sabbath, a Muslim terrorist of Pakistani origins named Naveed Afzal Haq forced a 14-year-old girl to get him into the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle building by holding a gun to her back. He then pulled out the two large-caliber semi-automatic pistols he had just purchased and went on a murderous rampage. Mr. Haq killed one woman, Pam Waechter, 58, an assistant director at the federation, and injured five others, one of whom was 17 weeks pregnant.

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This example is taken from the website of mr Daniel Pipes, who coined the term 'Sudden Jihad Syndrome' and who advocates special police observation of Muslims:

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Originally Posted by Daniel Pipes

Mr. Haq's actions are a clear instance of "Sudden Jihad Syndrome," whereby normal-appearing Muslims unpredictably become violent. His attack confirms my oft-repeated call for special scrutiny of Muslims. Because the identity of the next homicidal jihadi cannot be anticipated, Muslims generally need to come under heightened observation. I regret writing this as much as you dislike reading it, but it needs to be said and operated upon.

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Does this website reflect your own thinking, me hearty?

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Mr. Haq's actions are a clear instance of "Sudden Jihad Syndrome," whereby normal-appearing Muslims unpredictably become violent. His attack confirms my oft-repeated call for special scrutiny of Muslims. Because the identity of the next homicidal jihadi cannot be anticipated, Muslims generally need to come under heightened observation.

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You...REALLY...cannot make this stuff up can you?

Does he have anything to say about non-muslims going postal? As the identity of the next homicidal maniac also cannot be anticipated (certainly not by those repsonsible for issuing them with firearms permits, it seems:furious3: ) it surely follows that EVERYONE must come under heightened observation?

In fact, to be on the safe side, maybe we had better just lock everyone up. After all, in any give year, there are bound to be a number of murders, rapes, and other serious crimes. We can't tell who will commit them, and it may seem harsh to lock up a lot of people who probably would have led entirely blameless lives, but i guess that's the price of our freedom. "I regret writing this as much as you dislike reading it, but it needs to be said and operated upon."

If I had to choose between Sharia and Mr Pipes, you know, I think Sharia might shade it. Under Sharia at least you actually have to DO something before you are in the merde.

I think this much more to do with watching the Basketball Diaries one too many times (right down to the black trenchcoat) then it does with religious tradition.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

You...REALLY...cannot make this stuff up can you?

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No, you can't. This is certified reality, so to speak.

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Does he have anything to say about non-muslims going postal?

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No, he does not. Apparently in Mr Pipes' world there is no such thing as Muslims going postal, only postmen going Muslim.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

It will be interesting to see what motivation he had - just plain crazy, or 'sudden jihad syndrome', ala the Seattle Jewish Center killer.

I wonder what idiots will call for more gun control - though I wouldn't mind if they called for strict controls on the weapon he used.

CR

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=67445

In this thread it was made clear that the Seattle Jewish Center shooter was a convert to Christianity...

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

This example is taken from the website of mr Daniel Pipes, who coined the term 'Sudden Jihad Syndrome' and who advocates special police observation of Muslims:Does this website reflect your own thinking, me hearty?

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Don't forget his Campus Watch, which aims to persecute any academics suspected of anti-Israeli or pro-Muslim thinking. Can you say "Joe McCarthy"?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Don't forget his Campus Watch, which aims to persecute any academics suspected of anti-Israeli or pro-Muslim thinking. Can you say "Joe McCarthy"?

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Pannonian, I think we can. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070214...e_070214033710
Interestiung news. I have a feeling will be seeing more of these "random" attacks. It appears that this young man was also involved in a religious belief system that seems to be in the news lately for its strange tendency to deviate from its supposed "message". I wouldn't call it a violent religion since I've been schooled and trained to be tolerant of other's beliefs and the immediate alergic reaction I get from orange prison uniforms and sharp utensils slicing at my neck...
Question:
Do you think this is an random act or will we be seeing much more religious expression and the attempt of the media to frame it as some sort of random act?

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Hmmm.

I just assumed his motive was that he was an American.

Americans are known to be a violent people who live in a gun-loving culture and regularly produce schoolchildren who go on random killing sprees.

And now it's even starting to spread to us in Canada. I think we should block all American movies, television, and music, and put all Americans on a no-fly list. That would be the most certain way to end the spread of "American Mass Murder Rampage Syndrome."

:juggle2:

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It appears that this young man was also involved in a religious belief system that seems to be in the news lately for its strange tendency to deviate from its supposed "message". I wouldn't call it a violent religion since I've been schooled and trained to be tolerant of other's beliefs and the immediate alergic reaction I get from orange prison uniforms and sharp utensils slicing at my neck...

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Whats up Dave counln't you come up with some "fried chicken and Oprah" crap today , run out of "jewish intern "topics:dizzy2:

I'm currently living in Salt Lake, and the incident has been quite a shocker, as it's certainly not typical for this area (kind of like that freak tornado that tore through downtown Salt Lake City a number of years back). People are talking about it, but I've heard very few solid details and know nothing about the kid's motivation. Sounds more like the weird school rampages than anything religiously motivated, though. He certainly didn't choose a religiously oriented target, and there's plenty of those in the city. It's a little freaky to contemplate since I'm living just a few blocks from Trolley Square and have eaten there several times over the last few months. I'm used to all the crazy stuff happening in somebody else's backyard. Guess my bubble isn't as thick as it sometimes seems.

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Originally Posted by Lignator

Salt Lake City is getting more and more violent every day...I am glad I live in St. George, where it is still nice and quiet.

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Small world. I'm in Salt Lake for school, but St George is home to me, too (also to Ichi, but he's been away so long you probably don't know him). It is still comparatively quiet down south, but with how fast we're growing I can't say how long our little Utopia will last. There was that rape and murder of a 15 year old girl by a 14 year old boy in Dixie Downs just last month, if you remember. The world is catching up with us even in St. George. :shame:

Ajax

Way off topic, but how is Ichi-san? Long time since I've seen him around these parts. Give him our best if you're still in touch.

I'm afraid my only contact with Ichi was through here, so I haven't heard from him in probably about a year now. We never got in touch in real life, and he seemed to drop away pretty quietly here. I think he had more outside responsibilities through work and so on to deal with, but I don't have any details, and it's unfortunate he hasn't found time to stop in and give us all an update (at least afaik).

Ajax

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=67445

In this thread it was made clear that the Seattle Jewish Center shooter was a convert to Christianity...

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And that's why he attacked a Jewish center, saying his motive was vengence for Muslims 'killed' by the USA?

Anyways...
Adrian, I actually did not know the origin of the phrase, and I certainly don't agree with the idea of surveillence, nor the idea that Muslims suddenly become violent.

I think, in the case of Mr. Haq, it was more of a sort of individual anger and revenge thing, fueled by religion, viewing America as the Great Satan, etc.

For this fellow, I will wait to see what the evidence turns up.

Goofball...I am going to assume you're kidding.

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

And that's why he attacked a Jewish center, saying his motive was vengence for Muslims 'killed' by the USA?

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I'm guessing his complete insanity as described by so many who knew him?

Or perhaps it was just a plot to make Muslims look bad, after all, he had clearly converted to Christianity before (still not as crazy as the evil Muslim conspiracy though). :laugh4: Perhaps it was "sudden crusade syndrome" but he got Muslim and Christian mixed up. :laugh4:

Any way you look at it, the "sudden jihad syndrome" thesis is not holding up. :shrug:

Alot of Shootings eh? You had 3 School Shootings back in Late 2006, and Now We got a Mall shooting in Early 2007. What the hell are people trying to do these days. Sad how people have to be victims due to this crap..

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

And that's why he attacked a Jewish center, saying his motive was vengence for Muslims 'killed' by the USA?

Anyways...
Adrian, I actually did not know the origin of the phrase, and I certainly don't agree with the idea of surveillence, nor the idea that Muslims suddenly become violent.

I think, in the case of Mr. Haq, it was more of a sort of individual anger and revenge thing, fueled by religion, viewing America as the Great Satan, etc.

For this fellow, I will wait to see what the evidence turns up.

Goofball...I am going to assume you're kidding.

Crazed Rabbit

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Kidding? Moi?

:laugh4:

I am simply offering a theory that, based on the information at hand, has every bit as much plausability as that of the original poster.

That is to say, not very much...

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I guess he was Morman then since he lived in Utah, right?

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I have no idea. He's from Bosnia which has large Orthodox, Catholic, and Muslim populations. I'm not assuming what he is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17156121/?GT1=9033

Sounds more mental than anything. However, I've heard crazier things than revenge against a country that allowed them as refugees.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

I guess he was Morman then since he lived in Utah, right?

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Well not everyone in Utah is mormon, and since mormonism doesn't promote violence I am guessing he probably was not, although I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

It is still comparatively quiet down south, but with how fast we're growing I can't say how long our little Utopia will last. There was that rape and murder of a 15 year old girl by a 14 year old boy in Dixie Downs just last month, if you remember. The world is catching up with us even in St. George. :shame:

Ajax

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Yea I remember that, the girl that was killed supposedly went to my school. Crime in St. George is definently rising, there was a freeway chase a couple weeks ago that ended in a drug bust,and I have also seen some graffiti, which is new for a small town like this one.

I just heard him described as a Bosnian Muslim but they said there was no direct indication that religion was a cause….

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I just heard him described as a Bosnian Muslim but they said there was no direct indication that religion was a cause….

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Yeah they said that in the link in my previous post.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5230906

So we have a highschool dropout who is a bit of a loner who gets some guns and a trenchcoat and goes a bit mental .
Seems like a typical trenchcoat wearing lunatic on a shooting spree to me .:shrug:
Forget gun laws , you lot over there really need to ban trenchcoats .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Forget gun laws , you lot over there really need to ban trenchcoats .

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Tsk. When trenchcoats are outlawed, only outlaws will have trenchcoats. And then what?

Look, if only everybody in that mall would've been wearing a trenchcoat, this whole tragedy never would've happened. Or take for example Vermont. A cold place, everybody weares trenchcoats. And lo and behold: the state has never witnessed any trenchoat mafia shooting. Clear proof.

So, if we want to prevent kids from going on a trenchcoat shooting spree ever again, we clearly need to make sure all kids have easy access to trenchcoats.

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Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington

Tsk. When trenchcoats are outlawed, only outlaws will have trenchcoats. And then what?

Look, if only everybody in that mall would've been wearing a trenchcoat, this whole tragedy never would've happened. Or take for example Vermont. A cold place, everybody weares trenchcoats. And lo and behold: the state has never witnessed any trenchoat mafia shooting. Clear proof.

So, if we want to prevent kids from going on a trenchcoat shooting spree ever again, we clearly need to make sure all kids have easy access to trenchcoats.

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Trenchcoats don't kill people; Muslims kill people.

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Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington

Tsk. When trenchcoats are outlawed, only outlaws will have trenchcoats. And then what?

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There will be Congressional hearings about "trenchcoat profiling".

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Originally Posted by Goofball

Trenchcoats don't kill people; Muslims kill people.

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Atleast that's the case in most world conflicts currently.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Atleast that's the case in most world conflicts currently.

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I still think the Africans have the lead. So a guy went mental who happend to be muslim. Big deal. I belive Dave is right muslims being pre-disposed to violence but this is not one of those cases and he is promoting the wrong reasons.