MICs and reforms

Hi everybody! ~:)

I'm new to EB and HUGELY impressed by it!!! Kudos to all who have contributed to its making!!! Awesome historywork, awesome detail and artwork, accuracy and game balance, as I can see even after a few turns of gameplay! ~:thumb: ~:thumb: ~:thumb:


I'm currently playing my first game (M/H difficulty) with the Romans. It's now 250 BC and I hold the entire Italian peninsula, all of Sicily, the Adriatic coast, the city of Carthage and the lands of the Epiriotes . However, there are a few things so far that I'm a little bit confused about, despite looking around in the EB forums (including the FAQ) for clarification.

I understand that your MICs are available in relation to the government type you institute. Among these, Type I govt is available only in regions marked as "Homeland". This is of course the case with my starting cities (Rome, Capua etc), and in those cities I can build Roman barracks to produce hastati, principes etc.

My immediate conquests in the north were the 3 regions controlled by the Eleutheroi, all marked as Homeland region. Of these, in Segesta I can build Roman MICs as well as auxillary MICs. But in Bononia and Patavium just to the east, despite also being marked as Homeland, Roman MICs never appear as an option in the build list. The situation is the same with Rhegion and Taras in the southern tip of Italia (both marked as Homeland), both of which I conquered...
I destroyed the Greek MICs in all these 5 new Homeland-marked cities upon taking them. Some other Greek origin buildings (blacksmith, port, etc) are still in place...It also seems like MICs don't appear in the building browser anywhere, homeland region or elsewhere.


Any clues as to why can't I build Roman MICs in these Homeland regions??? :inquisitive: I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but can't figure it out ~:( :n00b:

My second question is about the Polybian reforms...According to the FAQ, they should happen:

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at least year 242, either hold 2 of these cities (Segesta, Mediolanum, Patavium, Bononia) AND 2 of these (Lilibeo, Messana, Syracuse) OR wait until 210BC
You get the new units after upgrading your Mic's. In settlements you don't upgrade you keep your old camillan units, and you are still able to retrain your old veterans.

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I have Segesta, Patavium and Bononia AND all of Sicily. I can't get Roman MICs in them except in Segesta as I described above, I built Level one auxillary MICs in the rest...I guess I have to wait until 242 BC, right? If so, Will the reforms make the missing MICs appear?

Thanks for any help! ~:)

Heh I'm new too but from what I've read on the forums here there is a limit on the number of factional MICs you can build in Camillan and Polybian eras. I belive it is 6 for Camillan and 10 for Polybian. Or so I've led myself to believe, since I have the same issue but I'm not worrying all that much, since I can build the local MICs in quantity and the 6 factional ones I have (I counted just to make sure) have been sufficient for my factional troop needs. But it would be nice to know for certain what the limits for factional MICs are by era. This is great mod; I'm in absolute joy over it. :2thumbsup:

You'll be able to build factional MICs in those 4 provinces after you get the Polybian reforms in 242.

Rome is much more limited in its factional MICs than most factions, at least until much later in the game. You can only build your traditional (hastati, principes and triarii) troops in Italy until you get the Marian reforms much, much later... Then I believe you get cohorts pretty much everywhere.

Until then, mercenaries are your friends, and regional MICs will give you some useful stuff too, at least for garrison duty.

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Originally Posted by LordCurlyton

Heh I'm new too but from what I've read on the forums here there is a limit on the number of factional MICs you can build in Camillan and Polybian eras. I belive it is 6 for Camillan and 10 for Polybian. Or so I've led myself to believe, since I have the same issue but I'm not worrying all that much, since I can build the local MICs in quantity and the 6 factional ones I have (I counted just to make sure) have been sufficient for my factional troop needs. But it would be nice to know for certain what the limits for factional MICs are by era. This is great mod; I'm in absolute joy over it. :2thumbsup:

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Hi there LordCurlyton! ~:)

I just checked my game and you're right, I have 6 Roman MICs in place!...But when I destroy one, the option to build a new one doesn't come up in other cities :dizzy2:

Its limited by particular province, not by number. You can only build camillan MICs in your starting provinces - Rome, Capua, Arpi, Ariminium, Arretium (and Segesta, I cant remember?).
Once you get the Polybian reforms, it activates factional MICS in those other Italian provinces.

Yah I have in Segesta for my 6th. Nice to know its province specific as well.

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Originally Posted by Kugutsu

You'll be able to build factional MICs in those 4 provinces after you get the Polybian reforms in 242.

Rome is much more limited in its factional MICs than most factions, at least until much later in the game. You can only build your traditional (hastati, principes and triarii) troops in Italy until you get the Marian reforms much, much later... Then I believe you get cohorts pretty much everywhere.

Until then, mercenaries are your friends, and regional MICs will give you some useful stuff too, at least for garrison duty.

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Its limited by particular province, not by number. You can only build camillan MICs in your starting provinces - Rome, Capua, Arpi, Ariminium, Arretium (and Segesta, I cant remember?).
Once you get the Polybian reforms, it activates factional MICS in those other Italian provinces.

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Oh ok, now it makes sense...

Out of necessity, it has already become part of my military logistics routine to shuffle wounded units after battles to have as many of them back to full strength as possible and ferry the remaining understrength ones back to Italia for retraining. This makes me choose my targets carefully and wait a while to get the auxilia barracks built, auxillary's trained or in the meantime move in some lower level troops for garrison duty from nearby regions. This is slowing down the initial conquests around Italia but I understand the logic behind this restriction, actually it feels way more realistic this way.

Thanks for the replies Kugutsu ~:)

I am in 258 BC and I still haven't figured out how to recruit local Italic troops. I have Government type I in pretty much all of Italy (and level 1 regional MIC's, I haven't built level 2, because it doesn't seem like they are giving me any troops either), but the only local Italic units I am getting are Samnite Spearmen in Capua, and the funny thing is that I didn't even have to build the region MIC to get them. :inquisitive: I have started buying Italic mercenaries, but they are incredibly expensive and limited in number. What is the way to recruit Italic troops as the Romans then?

In your original starting regions with type 1 goverments building a level 4 factional mic lets you recruit pedites extrodinarii (Samnite assault mercenaries only better, cheaper and retrainable:laugh4: :laugh4: ) and a level 5 factional mic gives you equiteis extrodinarii (like merc hippeis thesalkoi only better, cheaper and retraniable:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: )

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

I am in 258 BC and I still haven't figured out how to recruit local Italic troops. I have Government type I in pretty much all of Italy (and level 1 regional MIC's, I haven't built level 2, because it doesn't seem like they are giving me any troops either), but the only local Italic units I am getting are Samnite Spearmen in Capua, and the funny thing is that I didn't even have to build the region MIC to get them. :inquisitive: I have started buying Italic mercenaries, but they are incredibly expensive and limited in number. What is the way to recruit Italic troops as the Romans then?

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Italian allies come through the factional MIC so that when reforms hit, you won't have them anymore. So far there are only 3 Italian units (2 Samnites and those guys with the hats), and only one samnite unit is recruitable, IIRC.

The extraordinarii are more of Roman units then Italian units, IIRC.

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

I am in 258 BC and I still haven't figured out how to recruit local Italic troops. I have Government type I in pretty much all of Italy (and level 1 regional MIC's, I haven't built level 2, because it doesn't seem like they are giving me any troops either), but the only local Italic units I am getting are Samnite Spearmen in Capua, and the funny thing is that I didn't even have to build the region MIC to get them. :inquisitive: I have started buying Italic mercenaries, but they are incredibly expensive and limited in number. What is the way to recruit Italic troops as the Romans then?

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Italic regionals for the romans are in the factional mics so that, after the marian reforms, they cannot be recruited again. This is to represent how romans changed society in their italic provinces.

Foot

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Originally Posted by Foot

Italic regionals for the romans are in the factional mics so that, after the marian reforms, they cannot be recruited again. This is to represent how romans changed society in their italic provinces.

Foot

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Ok, so does that mean that regional MICs are useless in the Camillan era? What reform level are the extraordinarii produced in?

Thank you all for the responses! ~:)

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

Ok, so does that mean that regional MICs are useless in the Camillan era? What reform level are the extraordinarii produced in?)

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Extrodinarii are recruited in level 4 and 5 camillian and polybian factional mics.:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

Ok, so does that mean that regional MICs are useless in the Camillan era? What reform level are the extraordinarii produced in?

Thank you all for the responses! ~:)

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They are entirely useless for the romani in the italic area. Outside, they recruit as normal.

Foot

Hey!
I am fairly new to EB, i haven't played it since the very early versions. I have a problem. I have completed all requirements for Polybian reforms, and it is already 224 B.C.E and i'm kinda worried.

BTW In my previous roman game, I think I had the reforms(is it the Vanilla Marian Reforms picture?), but by accident I closed that window, and haven't had the chance to read what it said. Any explanations would be helpful.

There'll be a building in your cities in italy that says polybian milatry era. Then just build a newbaraks and your done.

but is there any window popping out announcing the reforms, or they just appear?

Thanks btw for quick response

No there is no window that pops up, we cannot mod events unfortunately.

Foot

Nope, no window, I useually only relise I hav them in the first turn of 241 when the year in history trait pops up I think, "hmm,that means I've had the reforms".

edit: Ok great thanks, turns out "Core" provinces retain the "building" camillian military era.

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Originally Posted by SaberHRE

hey guys now im confused. It's 208 BC and i still dont have any Polybian Military Era, i still have the old Camillan one:dizzy2:. Really weird.

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Have you been starting the script everytime you load the savegame. Also the camillian era building will still exist in the settlement, but the polybian era building will also be spawned in city. It will be at the end of the building list for the settlement, so try scrolling down.

Foot

Dang... sorry for still brining up this problem.

I abandoned my game where I got the polybian reforms, because as soon as i got them(around 205 BC) I jumped in a time machine back to 240 :inquisitive:.

With the new game, i just started a new game, and Since 242 BC i have been constantly checking for polybian reforms in my city buildings to no result. It's again 206 and still can't find it.

You hadn't been starting the script:laugh4:

The script sets the dates for 4 turns a year, and so in year 205 (turn 114) you activated the script, got the reforms, and it set the date as around 240 because it had been (24*4(24 including the first and last tyears I think) which is around 114 turn roughly.
Thats it (I think).

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Originally Posted by alatar

You hadn't been starting the script:laugh4:

The script sets the dates for 4 turns a year, and so in year 205 (turn 114) you activated the script, got the reforms, and it set the date as around 240 because it had been (24*4(24 including the first and last tyears I think) which is around 114 turn roughly.
Thats it (I think).

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Q: what is the "campaign script" and how do I load it?
A: The campaign script is the way EB mods much of the game to introduce new features and gameplay like seasons and stuff. Loading the campaign script is easy. As soon as you start a campaign, and every time after that when you load that game click on any one of your cities. An advisor will pop up telling you to click the "show me how" button. Do this. Now the advisor can be closed if it doesn't do so automatically. Advice does NOT need to be turned on for this to work.
Will this help me?

If you're gonna play EB and have it work right, you MUST do that.

You'll see the date change when you start the script.

I had the scripts activated but I didn't had the reforms either.
Is it if yo own al the cities you need and the date comes(242) you get it or is it not like this. I need new troops cause I can't seem te win from the makedons:(

If you're frustrated you could just mod the script to give you the reforms whenever you'd like it. As far as my experience go it's save safe to mod it as well.

There's a thread in the mod forums regarding this subject.

If you want I could give you the code I've used which gives you the reforms after a set number of provinces is under your control. I guarantee it works ;)

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Originally Posted by Wolfe

In your original starting regions with type 1 goverments building a level 4 factional mic lets you recruit pedites extrodinarii (Samnite assault mercenaries only better, cheaper and retrainable:laugh4: :laugh4: ) and a level 5 factional mic gives you equiteis extrodinarii (like merc hippeis thesalkoi only better, cheaper and retraniable:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: )

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Capua allows you to build the Samniti Milites, which are much better than the stupid Pedites, when you have the right local MICs. It also can build Samnite Spearmen and some other unit.

@Darth_roman
If you have 4 of the cities listed, and it is at least 242BC, then you should see a new MIC show up the next turn.

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Originally Posted by Darth_roman

I had the scripts activated but I didn't had the reforms either.
Is it if yo own al the cities you need and the date comes(242) you get it or is it not like this. I need new troops cause I can't seem te win from the makedons:(

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IF you hit the polybian reforms you should see "Polybian Military Reform" among you settlements buildings (similar to the "Camillan Military Reform" u have been seeing since the start of the game).
Once you see it, you need to build the next available MIC (factional i suppose) to get the polybian units. If you have lready built the highest possible u will have to tear it down and rebuild to get the polybian units.

Edited to scratch erroneous information

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Originally Posted by atheotes

IF you hit the polybian reforms you should see "Polybian Military Reform" among you settlements buildings (similar to the "Camillan Military Reform" u have been seeing since the start of the game).
Once you see it, you need to build the next available MIC (factional i suppose) to get the polybian units. If you have lready built the highest possible u will have to tear it down and rebuild to get the polybian units.

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your right about everything sept the last part which could bring him MUCH heartache if i didnt correct you here, you have an option if you have the highest MIC to make it again, hence allowing you polybian units, you dont tear it down and start again, which would take several years to do.

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Originally Posted by MastaSpoofa

your right about everything sept the last part which could bring him MUCH heartache if i didnt correct you here, you have an option if you have the highest MIC to make it again, hence allowing you polybian units, you dont tear it down and start again, which would take several years to do.

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:oops: soory about that :shame: Thanks for correcting me... I am in my first campaign and i had read it one of the threads here.. I did not realise there was such an option and i had delayed building the higher level barracks bcos i did not want to tear it down and also it does not make a difference to units avaialble in most cases (atleast in the early game). Thanks again. :embarassed:

In 080, you had to tear down the MICs. In 081, you can upgrade top level of one era to the top level of another era.