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I was browsing the backroom, and there was discussion about free (pseudo-free) university/college.
I know in France it's almost free, and in America scholarships help lower the price.
What is your countries form of public education beyond 18 years of age? Is it like France, or American, or something in between.
In the UK, we pay £3K a year. However, in order to pay this we are given special loans, the rate of interest on which is at inflation, so you repay the same amount in real terms. Repayments are taken out of your paycheck automatically once you start earning above ~£15K, and stop if you aren't earning. You also get similar loans to cover maintenance, and grants if your family is low-income.
I think it's a really good system, although the vast majority of students whine about it for reasons which, as far as I can see, amount to "I don't like being in debt".
Depending on the course you do you can either pay up front ($2k to $7k per annum) or pay it as an additional tax once you pass an income threshold (the loan is indexed at inflation)... until the loan is payed off.
Scholarships for most middle class students are pretty tough to come by. Many students graduate with debts ranging from $50,000 -$100,000 for decent State Colleges, much higher for the private colleges. My daughters' nursing degree cost daddy $80,000, I'm glad I was in a financial position to pay it. A young adult starting out with that large a debt had better nail that job they've been studying for or they are really going to struggle.
BKS, are students forced to take out loans instead of paying upfront if they are able? And does these apply to foreign students - could I go to Uni in England, get a job in the USA, and get the loans (and perhaps be less than diligent about paying them back)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
Very true.Quote:
Scholarships for most middle class students are pretty tough to come by.
CR
Hmm, scholarship money ain't so easy to get for undergraduate work, unless you happen to be a sports star or a minority. The Lemur was a National Merit Scholar, and let me tell you, it was peanuts. Some days it doesn't pay to be a middle-class prosimian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
Most Americans take on loans to complete their undergraduate degree. Yes, there are government guarantees that make those loans easier to get, but the perverse thing about our system is that those guarantees make foreclosing the loans very attractive for the lender. In other words, if I'm guaranteed a lump sum if you default, why should I wait ten years for you to pay the loan back? Better to take any excuse to declare you in default, and get my money faster.
It's kind of insidious. I came out fine, but I know a guy who got seriously jacked by the bank because they knew they'd get their money no matter how they behaved ...
It cost me about $20,000 in loans for my B.S. degree. It's a lot of money (which I'm still paying off), but the interest is very low and the payments are totally manageable. My parents were smart enough to start a savings account for me when I was born, which they put towards my lodging, books, ect- leaving only tuition to be paid for with loans.
I suppose it must vary by state, but I've had no trouble whatsoever with any of my lenders. In fact, I never deal with them at all- everything is handled thru PHEAA.
I am using the state lottery plan to pay for my son's edumacation. A dollar a week into the lottery - one day soon it's sure to pay off...:help: :laugh4: :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
Things have changed since your day, many colleges have guaranteed scholarships for national merit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
I'll have about $20,000 in loans after I finish private school. Pell grants help, but room and board costs a bit more than that and it's only since this year we qualified for them.
Any nice scholarship suggestion for the high school senior/college freshman to be? :beam:
See, I'm desperate for money. And since they don't believe that my great-great grand uncle was high chief of the Attapacua tribe and his wife was a descendant of a certain sharecropper in Alabama half of them are kinda closed to me. Also, since I'm not exactly the kind to pretend I actually do anyone any good to sign up for every clubs & "community service" organizations under the sun the other half are also kinda closed to me too.
:balloon:
I believe we are like the American system, but the Labour government has introduced 0% interest on student loans which makes life easier for students. And there are pleanty of scholarships that can be obtained to help pay for university education too. I think it's quite good here.
My school picked up the national merit program between my freshman and sophomore years. I had about half tuition covered by scholarship my first year, and now all of it, and so far no debt!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Still got to figure out how I'll be financing grad school, but I should come out in good shape with my BA.
Ajax
500 euro a year, books and living expenses not included.
No, they are not forced to take out a loan.Quote:
are students forced to take out loans instead of paying upfront if they are able?
I think you can pay upfront, but why bother? Interest-free loans = free money. Go invest your £3k a year or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Overseas students pay a hell of a lot more. Unless they're from the EU of course. For some reason the Scottish manage to have a system where Scots pay nothing, and everyone else pays. No idea how they've pulled that off seeing as everyone in the EU is supposed to be able to go anywhere and pay the same as the locals.
The tution fee loan doesn't work like that. The money is sent straight from the Student Loans Company to the university.Quote:
I think you can pay upfront, but why bother? Interest-free loans = free money. Go invest your £3k a year or something.
However, you can do this with the maintaince loan. Most of mine is in an ISA account.
Kindergarden, primary, highschool and university is completely free in denmark. that means the taxpayers pay for it, so i guess completely free is a moderated truth. students, however, do not pay one bit. on the contrary, for attending highschool (if you are 18+ years) or university the government pay you money just to go, it is around 4.300 dkr a month. that would be equal to around 7-800 dollars, every month.
so Im happy with the system, it is important to motivate people to educate themselves.
edit: in highschool they provide the books, in uni you buy them yourself and they are expensive in denmark.
Australian - hecs, as Pape explained.
tbh (and as someone who will soon have to use it) it's not a great system, especially considering that universities were free under labor.
we have a skilled labour shortage for a reason :(
EDIT:
@sjakihata - they pay you to study?
Where do I sign up? :laugh4:
Well yes, but a bank account with an extra £3k in it is better than one without that £3k because you used it to pay off fees in advance.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Doctor
You can get an EMA here in the UK if you're 16, 17 or 18 and in college. Something like £30 a week, but only if your family earns below a certain amount. From my personal experience everyone who got it dropped out anyway after the first year (probably because no one in their family had much academic experience, so they had no idea how to work at alevel standard), or only got it because 'Daddy has good accountants'.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapi
The government does this because Britain has a horribly large percentage of drop outs at 16. This was fine back in the day when all most people did was go work down the pits, but now we don't need unskilled labourers, so they are desperate to try and get people trained up to a useful standard. Not sure it's working too well. Also fairly dubious about the benefits of having half the population go to uni only to do a media studies degree.
May I suggest Universitas Arhusiensis a fine university where I study, and have been doing for the past two years. Only three more to go, phew.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapi
And yes, they pay me to study which is great. Then you can focus completely on the books (and beers) and don't have to work if you dont like or dont have time. I have a job, though, to supplement my income, only 30-40 hours a month, but it helps greatly.
Your courses aren't all taught in English are they? *cunning plan*Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjakihata
@BDC - I like the way you think :laugh4:
I never thought i'd find a reason to visit denmark, but /shrugs :beam:
Well, there are a lot of courses in english, a lot. Also a lot of guest lecturers from esp. cambridge and oxford. if you are doing a BA not many course are in english, but if you are completing your MA you can individualize your course and aim for those who are taught in english. we have a lot of exchange students also, on semester basis, so the teacher will have to teach in english, which they can with no problem of course.
Excluding living costs and books, I used to pay about 300-350€ a year which included free use of public transport in the whole region.
Now they thought we students could pay more so it's up at around 1300-1350 a year now. For those additional 500 per semester they provided a loan(how nice of them, this way they can get an additional 3.5% interest) which I applied for. Have to pay it back somewhen after studying but not before I have a certain minimum income I think and the positive thing is that I do not need to pay back more than 10000€, they put that as a maximum, it's the advantage you get for taking your student loans from the state.:juggle2:
You aren't forced to, but you'd be mad not to, since it's interest free.Quote:
BKS, are students forced to take out loans instead of paying upfront if they are able? And does these apply to foreign students - could I go to Uni in England, get a job in the USA, and get the loans (and perhaps be less than diligent about paying them back)?
International students pay a lot more, and don't get our loans. They're actually used to subsidise the British students to an extent-the medicine course I'm currently on would cost an international student ~£20K PA in fees. It's not really feasible unless your family is absolutely minted.
Of course it would good in your account, but the £3K from the tution fee loan is never in your account.Quote:
Well yes, but a bank account with an extra £3k in it is better than one without that £3k because you used it to pay off fees in advance.
The point is that if you don't take out the loan, you must have paid them £3K out of your own pocket. Which you no longer have.
Far better to keep that and take out the loan.
Oh no, its MUCH better than that. Scottish students pay nothing (upfront, if we are being strictly accurate). EU students also pay nothing, because as you say it would be a breach of EU law to discriminate between a scottish student and an EU sudent on the grounds of nationality.Quote:
For some reason the Scottish manage to have a system where Scots pay nothing, and everyone else pays. No idea how they've pulled that off seeing as everyone in the EU is supposed to be able to go anywhere and pay the same as the locals.
But ENGLISH students pay, because they are not Scottish, (therefore don't get the Scottish parliament megadeal) but they have the same nationality as the Scots and so it cannot be discrimination on the grounds of nationality to deny them the deal. In principle I should be outraged at this but in practice I find the bare faced effrontery quite funny.
I love EU law. And Scotland. Not as much as I love satan, obviously, but quite a lot nevertheless.
Sooner Scotland gets independence the better. Ideally just as the oil runs out.Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
Ah well, £3k a year isn't much really. Will make it up soon enough.
I think I have misunderstood what BDC was saying.
over here in Portugal in a public university you pay about 1000€ a year in tuitions........a private university is a lot more expensive.....but after all you deserve it because you weren´t good enough to get into a public one :laugh4:
Universtiy tuition is free here, so one only has to pay the exam fees which are a trivial sum, about £200. Books and maintenance are of course not free, but as I won't be moving out of home to pay the ludicrously expensive rents here, it doesn't really matter.
Almost free!? It's a whopping € 10 to € 45!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
Per month!!!1!11!!!! :furious3:
So unless you have rich parents this forces you to waste your time working jobs for like five, maybe even ten hours a month. Precious hours which should be spend writing brilliant post-modern critiques about failures like these of our postindustrial atomised neoliberal society.
How I (an American) paid for college:
1: Joined the National Guard, spent the Summer after High School in Basic Training, attended drill one weekend per month, thereafter and two weeks annual training each Summer. For this, I got 100% free tuition at any state university, pay for the weekend drills and annual trainings, plus a Montgomery G.I. Bill check for a few hundred dollars each month. (Also got good resume material for my chosen field as well as the opportunity to visit several other countries during the two week annual trainings, which is rare for middle class Americans).
2: Got a job processing the scholarships for other people on National Guard Grants and Veteran's Grants at the University.
3: Got a job as a Resident Assistant. R/As maintain some semblance of order within the dormitories, help new students, etc. In return, they receive free room and board at the dormitory.
4: Worked Summers in the agriculture industry.
I ended up with about $3,500.00 in student loan debt, mostly from the first year when I wasn't eligible to be an R/A. Most of that could have been avoided if I hadn't drank approximately $2,000.00 worth of beer and $4,000.00worth of Captain Morgan Spiced Rum.
My parents had no money to spend on my college, but they made too much for free assistance (the reality of lower-middle class in America). It can be done, though, if you are willing to work hard for it. I have no complaints.
Free uni here, and you'll get about 1500 sek a month as "welfare" (if you study full time) and can take student loans upto a total of 7200 sek (both the welfare and the loan together).
You can get this for 6 years (full loan) and will have to pay it back within 25 years. Low interest, but IIRC it's slighty higher than index based though.
The Canadian system is similar to the British: low/deferred interest loans until finished university and working.
Parents can also help out their children by investing in a Registered Education Savings Plan (RESP). I can put a maximum of $4,000 per year into a plan, and the government will match whatever I contribute $0.20 on the dollar, to a maximum $400 grant per year per child. All growth/income of the investments are non-taxable, but taxed as normal income in the hands of my children when the funds are withdrawn for school.
Pretty good deal. We've been contirbuting monthly since our first child was born, and it looks like we should have no trouble paying for most of our kids' education when the time comes.
The Lord helps those who help themselves...
Even though I'm not particularly religious, I am a big fan of that old gem...
Well, the Glorious Executive of the People's Republic of Scotland decided to abolish fees for people in Scotland (and after EU legislation, everyone else in Europe bar the English) studying for their first degree, with certain (very few) reservations. It has still kept grants and bursaries for poor people at the same level, for some reason. It also requests a Graduate Endowment on people who are not too poor of ~£2000 to pay for more grants and bursaries.
This has rendered the PRS's universities somewhat poor, and strapped for cash. The Lib Dems and SNP hope to abolish all fees, much to the horror of the universities and academics, and the almost constantly striking/protesting university staff, who have requested fees be re-instated.
The Isle of Man has no universities, but when Manx students go to a UK university the Manx government pays our tuition fees and provides a small monthly allowance.
I love the Isle of Man.