Htw Spin-off Mod - Ancient: TW

Hi there Dimitrios! Good to see you around again - how can I forget the guy that emailed those pics? :laugh4:

It's taken me a while to get back to finishing off the Bronze Age scenario, as I mentioned above, my last computer died on me and all the old work was lost - including my Roman Invasion one (Britannia 43, I called it) -- that will take ages to redo, so it's on a back burner for now. I had loads of extra stuff gathered together for the BA project though, lots of new ship images etc, but it's all gone, or locked away on a disc I can't recover .... I know, I know, back ups!!! :shame:

Anyway, I've finally got a new PC, back into HTW and relearning all the modding I'd forgotten over the past year or so. Hopefully I'll be able to finish off the Bronze Age campaigns for HTW BA one day - I just found my old notes last night, so I can recreate a lot of the lost work. Meanwhile, I'm working on the Bronze Age Europe "cross-mod". I won't be making any new units as such, just recycling HTW models.

I've got them ported across to the XL map okay, had a few battles as the Egyptians and Hittites, and making steady progress. I'm concentrating on the Egyptians first. Anyway, a couple of tasters for you...

Starting provinces:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/00000043.jpg

Egyptian campaign:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/00000046.jpg


I still have lots of research to do, but it seems Bronze Age warfare was mostly chariots supported by spears and archers, with a few local variants. Getting into western europe things are a lot vaguer, with fewer chariots, more general "tribal" types etc.

16 factions so far but might consider others: Ligurians, Phoenicians, Israelites, "The Sea Peoples", Sicels, Canaanites... The problem is that the Middle East is the most interesting area, but doesn't have enough provinces. I know someone once was making a mid-east campmap, and I'd love to get my hands on that!

No promises on whether it will ever be releasable, or how long it will all take, but I'll try.

@Axel - yes, you've got the latest versions of HTW and the patch, but the factionshields have been redone since that one, and I think I have some newer .txt files too. I'll do a new install and see what has changed since then.

Macsen ,, You are keen !! Seems like it will be a labour of love for you ,, Have you played Rome TW yet ? Im sure if you are going to put so much work into a project it would be better to do it on a platform thats very very popular ! I would be willing to help as much as possible ,, they currently have a Rise of Persia mod happening and also a Hellenic version as well ,, nothing Bronze Age or Old Kingdom Egyptian so it would be a definate goer and im sure plenty of modders would jump aboard to help out ,, cheers ,, DTS

Hi mate,
It looks really great i think there will be a lot of people playing this mod mate:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

(Macsen ,, You are keen !! Seems like it will be a labour of love for you ,, Have you played Rome TW yet ? Im sure if you are going to put so much work into a project it would be better to do it on a platform thats very very popular !) Who sais this is not verry popular ? mate i think there will be a lot of people playing this mod mate :2thumbsup:

Hi Axel ,, Like Mac say's it may never make it out their ,, I wish HTW was still as popular as it was in its heyday ....but it isn't !! check the thread index .... zilch !!! sad but true ,, Seems like other mods are still very popular XL & a few more ,, Like i said earlier I will be reloading MTW + its mods to give em all another crack ... Anyway should Macsen complete the Broze Age I definately want a copy !!! .. By the way have you got Fall of Rome 3.1 yet ?

Hi mate,
Yes mate i hope this will get out also it would be great to play this mod mate
yes i got Fall of rome as well the last version they fixed it up really great its a wonderfull mod. I got 7 modded MTW on my PC i love the game
Well i hope this will get out to play:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

I hope it sees the light of day before another computer dies on me :laugh4:

I have got RTW + BI, but found it bit of a disappointment, and also I don't have the first clue on modding it (okay, so I didn't have a clue when I started on MTW either.... but wanting to get HTW BA working gave me a motive to learn.) Also, I have an NVIDIA video card, so need different drivers to play MTW and RTW. As it's such a pain to keep swapping over (I once left my machine with NO video output by uninstalling the wrong drivers :no:) so I've decided I'd rather have MTW + mods than RTW.

HTW was the first mod I ever tried, and I'll never forget that first battle, invading Messenia as the Lakadaemonians! It really knocked my socks off, seeing all those hi-res shields, javelins flying everywhere, and the battle maps are still some of the best I've seen. They'll be carried across into the Ancient mod when I work out how. I don't think it will be difficult, I just haven't looked into it yet. I think I'm going to have to make my own "hill fort" maps for western europe though :beam:

Latest news on Ancient-XL (my working title!):

- more Egyptian units added: Egyptian archers, Sherdan mercenaries (like Greek BA militia, but tougher), Medianite cameliers (from HTW) only available in Sinai and Arabia.
- proper Egyptian portraits for Pharaohs and princesses
- one "Famous king" added: Ramses II (charismatic leader)
- using HTW versions of nubian spears and guards, only available in Libya and Egypt
- building up a full Egyptian name list

Next faction to look at will be Assyrians, then Hittites.

I need to decide on a date for "iron age" technology to appear (maybe as a "high" period) but giving early access to the Hittites in Anatolia and Celts in Hungary / Halstatt homeland. I'm also making the pagan ("barbarian" tech-tree more drawn out so they have to do more developments in order to catch up with the "civilised" factions of the Middle East (not forgetting that early advantage in ironworking and maybe horse breeding :2thumbsup: )

Wooow great mate if you got the change cane you show somme pics ???:yes:

I've finally got ReadBIF again, so can do some more stuff like faction shields and review panel graphics....

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...us/ramses2.jpg

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/princess.jpg

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...us/battle1.jpg

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...empletitle.jpg

really nice mate really nice:yes:

Brilliant stuff Macsen !! Winter will soon be coming here down under and when it sets in I'll look forward to helping you out on this one both in research & pic & portrait hunting & maybe even more ... ,, I just feel those battles in the sand will be fantastic without trees and shrubs in the way ,, This Bronze Age mod will be a first !! Perhaps eventually we can add Sumeria , Babylon & others for a "Dawn of Civilsation" add on campaign ? !! ,, Anyway my hard drive double very very soon so as soon as MTW + Hellenic is reloaded I'lll be in touch so you make sure I have all your little additions & extra's added to it ,, cheers for now ,, DTS ...
Axel ,, If I can't get to download FOR 3.1 before it disappears may I get a copy from you ? cheers 2u2

Good work !

I can give you some (limited) help with the mod. There are many possibilities to explote with the mod, some are VERY easy to implement e.g. mounted infantry if you need it.

Maybe you should create a new thread right here within this sub-forum to develop the mod.

Some people could help you with the research which would be very useful in this modding project. Currently only some people notice the idea...:juggle2:

Hi Cegorach - thanks for the kind words. I have to admit that some of your ideas from PMTW have already helped me! :bow: So far most of the "hard work" that's gone into this has been second-hand - VikingHorde's map, and the HTW team's units, so I can't claim a lot of credit, I'm just mixing up the toys in my toybox so they can play together :laugh4:

You're probably right about a new thread though -- but that would make it sort of "official", and I don't really want to make too many promises at this stage....

@DTS: I quite like the idea of a Mid-East focus, but that will require a whole new camp map. I'll keep looking to see if that MidEast map ever made it to the light of day. Can't remember where I saw it though....

And of course, the other project is continuing to get HTW-BA straightened out. One day I'll get to play the PM English Civil War scenario....

Hello Cegorach & thanks for the encouragment >> Macsen , I'm fairly certain the map you saw was from the defunkt Diadochi mod being made ,, It was focused in that area of Persia at the time of Alexanders death ,, Perhaps there is some way of contacting this person who was creating this mod & even take all his peices to put into a new playbox !! ... Anyway guys should it be necessary Im sure we could easily make a map of Mesopotamia ... So Macsen keep chipping away on your Bronze Age project and lets see how it all develops ,, In the meantime I'll check out the library to see how maps are made :book: ,, cheers for now ,, DTS

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Originally Posted by macsen rufus

Hi Cegorach - thanks for the kind words. I have to admit that some of your ideas from PMTW have already helped me! :bow: So far most of the "hard work" that's gone into this has been second-hand - VikingHorde's map, and the HTW team's units, so I can't claim a lot of credit, I'm just mixing up the toys in my toybox so they can play together :laugh4:

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True, but it is exactly what I did some time ago lacking skills in drawing, with no support to think about - at least you don't need to do much to have almost perfect collection of animations for the mod - it made me want to see them personally to determine the possibilities.


I am interested in details how will you handle game unit vs. unit balance.

For example some time ago I wondered how to handle things like chariots in a mod requiring them ( I toyed with the idea of RTW on MTW VI mod - simila to the one already in progress).

Here are my thoughts.

Heavy chariot designed to break enemy line should :

1. Lose missile weaponry because the AI can't use it prperly, but not completelly - the 'dismounting' allows adding optional unit of heavy chariots WITH missile weaponry, but because it will be only available by 'dismounting' the recruitable heavy chariots the AI will not use them (because it doesn't dismount units before a battle anyway) and a human player will still be given this option.
The minor flaw is that this way the chariot crew will not dismount into anything else, but from historical point of wiev it didn't happen if I am not wrong.

2. Heavy chariots can be coded as INFANTRY
- it has numerous advantages.
One - this way it ignores anti-cavalry bonuses.
Two - it still can be dismounted and the existence of the steed doesn't matter too - infantry can have mounts as I found out.
Three - the existence of a steed STILL makes it terrible when fighting in forested areas.

3. It needs to get pavise shield - only this way they will not die too quickly from enemy missile fire. Pavise bonus can be very high making the target very hard to kill with ranged weaponry and unlike armour doesn't cause fatigue.
Of course they shouldn't be bullet proof, but it is a matter fo testing.
Just check my WagionInfantry in PMTW if you need something really hard to kill.

4. Fatigue can be controlled by the weight of armour. This way fast chariots with high stamina can get light armour (even none) with protection offered by well-balanced pavise shield.
Heavy chariots quite differently - heavy armour and weaker pavise keep it well protected from missiles, but faster to tire.

5. Defence offers protection not armour so chariots should be given decent defence at the expense of their armour.

6. FEAR is the most potent weaponry in the game ! Thanks to the incredibly flexible system of fear used by the MTW engine it is easy to determine which units fear what which is ESSENTIAL for the chariots to work properly.
Basically heavy chariots should cause fear in infantry except the ones which are designed to hunt them ( e.g. chariot runners).
Chariot hunters can not only be invulnerable to such terror, but cause fear in chariot units...
Because fear adds +2 to attack and lowers target's attack by 4 at the same time it is damn useful and allows creation of units designed to stop perticular enemies.

The AI also seems to use the fearsome units as designed which is even better.


Well... you might already know this all, but I had this idea - hopefully you might find something useful here.:2thumbsup:

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You're probably right about a new thread though -- but that would make it sort of "official", and I don't really want to make too many promises at this stage....

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The mod in general seems to be rather easy to produce - the main problem is research unless you have it done already.
The reduction of techtrees, many cuts here and there will shorten the time required to make it work too.
From my experience I can say that the research takes the largest part of work.

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And of course, the other project is continuing to get HTW-BA straightened out. One day I'll get to play the PM English Civil War scenario....

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There will be two'English' scenarios - Civil War and Armada Campaign.
The problem is the recent discoveries shattered my earlier plans and made me re-define the whole concept of the PMTW...
Currently I am doing some research to add new options to less attractive factions such as Montenegro - which means more time...
At least I managed to add a couple of new animations I managed to create.:juggle2:

After a quick glance at the HTW animations and my Osprey ancient wars books I can say that almost everything which possibly can be used in the mod is already done...

Of courase in case you wanted to add more than the 'vanilla' factions you will need to move some dangerous animations folders to different places (those which cause CTDs when used by additional factions) which still is possible thanks to the fact there are 2 unused custom folders in HTW (those discovered by Barocca which I use in PMTW) it is much easier - besides most of those hoplite infantry has no use anyway.

Good luck !

If you have some specific questions where I can help I will be visiting this forum from time to time so will be able to help I believe.


BTW Are you going to use native names - in Egyptian, Assyrian etc ?

In many cases it is possible because sources do include such.



Regards Cegorach:egypt:

Cegorach your comments & ideas to Macsen have ignited my interest in this mod !! .. I have just read over half a dozen pages and my appetite is ready .. Macsen Im itching to play this mod ! partial & unfinished (( those screenies look soo nice )) If at all possible would you at some stage be able to send over a copy of Bronze Age with any other files so I can reload it over HTW & begin familiarising myself with it ( :idea2: ) , As files for BA are now unavailable ,, Perhaps also Cegorach would also like the same files ,, I also noted that Pericles showed interest in BA by chiming in with comments on Sea-People ... (( He recently finished re-tweaking Fall Of Rome 3.1)) and maybe he is interested in helping out ? as he currently isn't involved in any Total War modifications .. What do you say Macsen ? When your ready & comfortable would you take the plunge and try a "Sub-forum" thread ? :yes: ... It's definately going to get more attention that way ,, As Cegorach said most of the hard-works been done :2thumbsup: ,, So generating interest leads to more people involved/interested then onto forming a team and perhaps one day soon release a mod as as big & popular as XL & Pike & Musket ,, DTS :beam:

Modding team is the last thing he really needs (from my experience) especially with all those sweet animations from HTW.

I suggest looking for research support - this can make the work really easy.

Overall I would say the mod can be ready in time of 10-14 days if done at quick pace.

Researching unit rosters are always the most time consuming part.
It is about 2-3 days to add all units in the game, 1-2 days to balance them, 2-3 to write proper descriptions, 1 day to create techtrees, 2 days to set startpos and about 3 days for bug hunting.
Personally I don't believe in balancing the campaign - I usually have thrown realistic number of soldiers for each faction and let the game resolve the rest.
Funny I got opinions that PMTW is so well balanced after this intentionally careless approach.:juggle2:

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in time of 10-14 days

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:dizzy2:

I should point out I don't have days, only evenings.... :beam: I'm also not keen on time pressure, this is a recreation, I get all the time pressure I need from work (as well as the opportunity to do some research when the boss is out of the office :laugh4: ) A lot of the research is in the modding guides as well - I want to change some of the shields and weapons in the animations, eventually -- keep bronze weapons looking bronze etc. I'm still a bit rusty, but getting back up to speed. I'll also try and be a bit more organised in my approach this time (including more back ups OFF my hard-drive!)

The way it works is that the original install is XL, with units ported over from HTW - I tried the other way round (ie start from HTW and add the XL map) but it wouldn't start properly. It's going to be great fun separating out what needs to be put into an installer later on, but that's a problem for another day. Meanwhile, the best thing is if you have both HTW and XL, you can make a fresh copy of XL, and I should be able to give a list of directories/files that need to be copied in from HTW, and then make a small patch which includes the files that I've changed so far. But that probably won't be just yet...

@DTS - the BA scenario in HTW should work, though a bit buggy, if you use the "Total Patch" which is still up on 3D.

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BTW Are you going to use native names - in Egyptian, Assyrian etc ?

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As much as possible - but it's never going to be exact transliterating into the Latin alphabet (one advantage you have with more recent eras!) I'm also trying to get historical kings in place - ie Ramses II, Muwatillis, etc etc

More next week :2thumbsup:

In brief, it uses the Hellenic Bronze Age units on the XL whole Europe map to create a "Bronze Age Europe" scenario.

Start date is approx 1250-1275BC (ie just in time for Kadesh). The main area of interest is obviously the Middle East, as most of the rest of the map is pretty much uncivilised, although this is an era in which the Celts, Slavs, Balts, Germanics etc are become established. During the scenario, iron use will spread and revolutionise the relationship between the "barbarians" and the "civilised" factions. The age of chariots will be superceded as better horse breeding allows for riding as well as chariot-pulling.

Latest updates:

Egyptians in Battle - the sharp eyed will notice a new unit in the roster - Nubian archers! I found unused frames for this in the HTW "NegInf" animations - this unit has now made its way to the battlefield and works fine (though obviously not as good as Egyptian Archers :2thumbsup: )

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...us/battle2.jpg

Assyrian battle line

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ss_battle2.jpg

Assyrian unit stats

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ass_battle.jpg

A couple of new units:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ass_spears.jpg

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ass_archer.jpg

really nice mate i am itching to play this mod mate :2thumbsup:

Rufus ,, Good to see all these new screenies ! nice :laugh4: ... Im just as keen as you on this mod so keep plugging away till you get it nice Tight & balanced ,, Ok a few questions ,, Can I be your beta tester on this one ?
Also I would like to do any research for you including giving you all the nice pics I collected all those years ago for Komninos when he was working on it with the boys ,, (( I have nice Syrians - Hyksos - Sea Peoples + more )) that would be ideal for review panels / parchments etc etc if required ,, Imagine if a Mesopotamian map was made for this one ! wow !! cause if memory serves me correct their are factions already made by Flip which stretch beyond the XL map ,, Would also be nice if we could get period campap peices as well ..
** MODERATOR ** PLEASE if possible move this thread to the SUB-FORUM :2thumbsup: ...
cheerio for now ,, DTS

@Dimitrios - I'd like to see your stuff on the Sea Peoples & Syrians, please! The Hyksos, I'm afraid are already in the past at this point, as are the Mitanni.

One main focus is trying to get the chronology right - not easy when the sources disagree as to whether the Trojan War happened before or after Kadesh, for instance! Whilst we have a good date for Kadesh (1275 BC +/- 5 years), I've seen dates for the Trojan Wars everywhere from 1300 to 1180 BC. I'm trying to avoid names/factions/portraits that are more recent than the target period (eg found LOADS of stuff for Assyria, but all based around 600BC or thereabouts :wall: ), but I guess I'll have to fudge a few issues eventually!

I will also be doing recruitment on a "homeland" basis, though a few faction-specific units will be recruitable everywhere (eg Egyptian archers are just archers trained Egyptian style and with Egyptian bows and will be available anywhere, but Nubian Archers will ONLY be available in Libya and Egypt).

Some units will have a homeland and available to all factions in that homeland - I'm still undecided whether to make them culture-specific though - if the Celts took Arabia, would the cameliers fight for them or not, for instance?

I'd really like to make a Hebrew faction too (I've already given Palestine a valour-bonus for light slingers :laugh4: ) and I'd love the idea of producing wall-levelling trumpets at a siege engineer's workshop :laugh4: My first thoughts were to maybe dump "The Exodus" in Sinai, but it might be better to wait til approx 900BC and set up a proper Israelite kingdom in the "high" era. But then if I was to include Phoenicians we could be a bit short of provinces...

Western European factions are going to be harder, as we're really talking about distributed ethno-linguistic groups rather than any sort of organised nations at this stage. At the moment their unit roster is the most limited of all, especially the Germanics who never had chariots. I'm verging more towards having lots of rebels across western europe and keeping the factions in small homelands to start with (ie celts and slavs especially) to mimic the culture spreading with time (Halstatt and Lausitz, respectively). Also I'm not yet sure what to do about the non Indo-Europeans of western europe - Iberians and the Atlantic culture.

So far the most developed faction roster I have is the Egyptians and Assyrians:

EGYPT
Egyptian chariots (BG unit)
Nubian spears / Nubian archers / Nubian guards (Libya + Egypt only)
Light + heavy slingers (ALL FACTIONS, ALL PROVINCES)
Egyptian archers
Tower shield spearmen ("homeland" units for middle east - all factions)
Sherdan mercenaries
Medianite cameliers (Sinai + Arabia ony)
Eastern ("Syrian") archers ("homeland" units for middle east - all factions)
To add: Ne'arin (elite infantry) and light infantry (armed with maces)

ASSYRIA
Assyrian chariots (BG unit, valour bonus in Mesopotamia)
Light + heavy slingers (ALL FACTIONS, ALL PROVINCES)
Assyrian archers (Mesopotamia, Armenia, Edessa)
Tower shield spearmen ("homeland" units for middle east - all factions)
Eastern swordsmen ("homeland" units for middle east - limited factions)
Medianite cameliers (Sinai + Arabia ony)
Eastern ("Syrian") archers ("homeland" units for middle east - all factions)
Assyrian spearmen (Mesopotamia, Armenia, Edessa)
To add: possibly horse archers depending on research regarding dates - definitely by 900BC
Battering ram c. 600BC (first siege engineers were Assyrian)

I'm toying with the idea of making light slingers "dismountable" to heavy slingers (which have flaming missiles for wooden walls, and also AP missiles against troops - I've altered the ammo already so that light slingers have 100 (IIRC) as they can just use stones....)

Ok Macsen ,, Send me your email and i will start sending you those pics ,, cheers for now

I've been getting more to grips with unit animations, and last night spent some time in the barbarous lands of the north...

Added shield to tribal axemen
New unit: tribal spears, with shield and throwing spear (see pics below)
Changed shield on Assyrian spears

"Dismountable" slingers works fine, so now I have one trainable unit that can do both jobs.

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ibalspears.jpg

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...axenspears.jpg

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...rianspears.jpg

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Ok Macsen ,, Send me your email and i will start sending you those pics ,, cheers for now

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PM on its way :2thumbsup:

Nice ones Macsen ! ... I only wish i could mod to ,,,, Looking forward to seeing more of your middle eastern units especially chariots & seige equipment (( Assyrian Rams )) :beam: ,, Are you planning on making /modifying the castles on the battlemap to suit the period ? I'll get those pics over to you on the weekend , gotta spend 3 days on the road ,, cheers for now ,, DTS

For the castles, I intend to import all the HTW maps - at the moment it still has the XL maps throughout -- which leaves the great situation of 200 club-wielding nutters trying to hammer down the doors of a full-blown mediaeval castle with ballista towers :laugh4: If all goes well I'd like to make some hillfort maps for the western european factions, as that will be mostly terrain rather than models involved, lots of ramps and ditches and stockades.

I know the whole map import thing will be quite a big job, as it will require me to go carefully through all the province info in the startpos file, make sure I have maps for all the terrain types etc. Yup, that's right, I'm procrastinating on that one :beam: More of a job for a weekend than an evening, I think.

Any new units will depend on what I can make from existing ones by moving shields and weapons around - but that still gives quite some scope. The pre-existing HTW RAM will be fine for the Assyrian one.

As for unit bifs, there are quite a few spares left yet - some of the animations will not be used in BA (oxivolos and eutythonon, for example) and some are duplicated - the bodies of the tribal warriors exist in two animations, so that means I can extract my slingers from the bif which has bronze weapons, and free up the other copy which has iron weapons.

It's going to be difficult to make the european barbarian factions distinct from each other - okay, so the Germanics have no chariots and their BG units are the axemen - but most of them will have the basic tribal warriors (clubs), archers, spears and axes, plus the slingers which everyone gets. So some faction-specific "specials" will be needed. I was thinking along the lines of small "berserker" type units, hunters that can hide in the open and have better bows, and possibly some sort of "noble" unit that can also be a chariot dismount. Javelin throwers also seem desirable. And in due course there will be swordsmen available, which can vary between factions (eg Celtic units with Naue swords, Germanics with longswords maybe....)

macsen rufus:

Excellent work so far :)

You're progressing at a quick pace....

I also love playing ancient empire games such as HTW.

BTW, it would be great to see Babylon and Persia in the mod. Babylon especially fits the time period, and if you have Early, High, Late, periods, then perhaps Persia could be fit in.

Cheers!

Lots of pictures about ancient Egypt you might find useful:

http://images.google.ca/images?q=anc...mages&ct=title

http://classroomclipart.com/cgi-bin/.../Ancient_Egypt

http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/main.html

Hi Pericles,

thanks for the links, I'll go and have a little snoop around shortly :2thumbsup:

It definitely sounds like we need a map for further east, seems there's a lot of interest in Babylonia! For now I think Assyria is the eastern limit with the XL map (at least it has Mesopotamia on it :laugh4: )

Slightly less progress last night, I got kind of caught up with playing the Germanics, and trying a couple of ideas. For the western barbarian factions I've added in three levels of livestock farming (Domesticated boars, Cattle herd, and Cattle Breeder) currently with "cathedral income" as I don't know yet if two sets of buildings with farm income will work, and depending on the other farm upgrades. In time this will extend into the rest of the tech tree, such as leatherworker (needed to make shields and harnesses etc), so the barbarians go through a longer tech-up process, and also to make up for not having the same sort of farmland as found in the fertile crescent. Farm levels and resources are yet to be tweaked, currently I have no resources or trade goods on the map, and farming is at default XL values. Genrally the economy overall will need a complete overhaul, as I have the very cheap HTW units and buildings on quite a high-income map, but for now, whilst I'm testing, quick and easy building is a useful tool...

I'm off to do some research, lunch break is nearly over :thumbsdown:

I would be careful with cathedral income buildings. Too many cause CTD when checking for province's income.
I don't know how many, but I suggest to pack the maximum number of thos you want to add and check for yourself.
Perhaps it is a good idea to keep some of those unique this way they will not appear all together in one place.


I had a look in my Osprey books from ancient period and made a caouple of notes.

So I might have some suggestions for usnits.

Egypt

a number of infantry used throwing sticks so perhaps a kind of skirmishing infantry with this weapon can be added - something like darts in VI I guess ( Ethipian army later used similar weapons with special sharpened boomerangs and many-edged knives).

Makhtu-aa close combat infantry might have two versions :
one - assault infantry without missiles,
two - same, but with throwing spears/javelins - but this one only allowed by 'dismounting' the first one, AI doesn't dismount units and it cannot use javelins properly anyway so recruitable shock infantry with throwing weapons would be wasted by it.

Stave bows - were cheaper and more popular + better in rainy weather conditions and were used by infantry together with later and more expensive composite bows.
Perhaps two types of archers to show it ?

Chariot runners - in my opinion a MUST in the mod.

Two versions with bows and javelins - perhaps only one recruitable and another 'dismountable' only ?
Were used to destroy enemy chariots and support egyptian ones so are perfect to cause fear in enemy chariotry without similar fears themselves. Could receive a charge and destroy the vehicles, though not without losses.
Should be very fast (for infantry)

Mittanian auxilia - Mariyannu hevavy, noble chariots with armoured crews and horses were used by egyptians too as allies after numerous conflicts with their state.

Chariots

Apparently heavier chariots appeared later after wars with Mitanni.
Remained quite light, but got some armour and got faster thanks to better use of horses.


Assyrians


3 levels of army.


Levies called Sab Sharry - peasant infantry archers, spearmen, slingers and shild bearers to protect archers.
Auxilia - cheap cannon fodder.
Bad or no armour + shields.

Kisir Sharruti - reformed army ( around 900 BC).

It included chariots and (later) cavalry).
Infantry was called Zuku sa sheppe - as the levies divided into all 4 infantry types.
Certainly armoured.

Royal guards -Qurubti sha shepe - all types of infantry and cavalry/chariots.
All armoured, but not havily. Disciplined elite of the army.




Assyrian chariots and cavalry.

According to the osprey about Assyrians cavalry started as either horse archers or lance armed support.

Both would act separately as different units.

Later they merged, got a little more armour and their steeds got some protection from cloth half-barding - a kind of extended cloth under the saddle and protecting steed's chest.

Something like a mini-skirt for a horse without protection over the head.


So the final Assyrian cavalry would be a hybrid lancer/archer.

As usual it might cause problems for the AI so perhaps it should be recrutable as light lancers with little arrows with dismountable version with larger number of arrows too ?


Assyrian chariots - simple heavy (getting heavier as the time passed) line breaker with archers aboard.



Overall I would propose the following roster

Sab Sharry - peasant infantry archers, spearmen, slingers and shield bearers to protect archers.


shield bearers either separate or in the same units as archers to give them some ranged protection.



Kisir Sharruti - reformed army

the core of the army - all infantry types, includes cavalry when it appears with reformed version in 'mini-skirt' in the last era ( 700 BC).

Perhaps should have chariots too ?


Royal guards -Qurubti sha shepe

guard infantry so harder to get ( maybe only in the royal court so unique building in one province ?)

Chariots for sure.

Cavalry for sure.

Some infantry too, but maybe without all choices.


I hope you will make the rosters ore diverse - the information might help.


Remember you can use 256 units and it DOESN'T include mounts, agents and ships.:2thumbsup:

Some useful ideas, cegorach, thanks :2thumbsup: I keep on seeing references to Osprey books -- think I might as well invest in some myself...

Couple of questions for you: chariot-runners sounds good - any idea what melee weapons? I guess spears but that's just a guess! I haven't implemented the "feared units" yet, but I like your suggestions about chariots (I think that's something I'll do when I have a full unit roster).

I'm not ready to do it quite yet, but I will need to look at the Steppes eventually (I'm still reading up on early history of horse riding) and think I might like to use some of your steppe cavalry animations etc from PMTW (nogay asker, budiak asker etc) if that's okay? There's a lot of "rebel grey" up there at the moment, so I need to set up appropriate units and possibly factions - obviously in later periods I'll put in the Scyths, but for the early era I'm not quite sure yet...

Meanwhile:

New unit -- tribal swordsmen - taking on a few axemen:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ds_vs_axes.jpg

The first level of barbarian livestock farming:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ufus/boars.jpg

More at lunchtime...

...

... I've added more offices for the Egyptians - basically using four levels of temple (Set, Ra, Ptah and Amun) to give office titles to the "Leader of (insert god) Division", and tieing in the morale upgrades and happiness bonuses. As these are unique, they'll only ever be built in Egypt, so foreign-raised troops will always have lower morale (max +1 morale from Shrines in foreign provinces).

I've succesfully moved the slingers into the new animation, so now there's a "spare" animation folder.

The unit roster will grow as research allows, and of course era divisions will be implemented. Meanwhile, I'm concentrating on early era. I also have a spare culture as yet, as none of the factions have been labelled "orthodox" - I might use this for the non-Indo-europeans in western Europe (Iberians, Etruscans and "Atlantic" culture areas, incuding British Isles, as rebels or possibly new factions).

I think that's all for today, cheers :2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macsen rufus

Some useful ideas, cegorach, thanks :2thumbsup: I keep on seeing references to Osprey books -- think I might as well invest in some myself...

---

They are very useful, though when doing some more in-depth research I discovered much more mistakes than I assumed in the beginning.

Still 'if there is no fish even a lobster is a fish' - old polish saying

Quote:

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Couple of questions for you: chariot-runners sounds good - any idea what melee weapons?

---

Spears were too large I think, so daggers of some sort are better. These guys eliminated horses and later dispatched immobilised crews alone or already crippled by their chariot mounted 'cousins'.

Quote:

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I might like to use some of your steppe cavalry animations etc from PMTW (nogay asker, budiak asker etc) if that's okay?

---

If you like it is not a problem.




ONE note I found that Egyptians used small units of cavalry as scouts so maybe little regiments of very fast horsemen can be added too ?

I guess 12 men units are all you will need - and of course available only from later periods.

Cavalry is a difficult one, as the sources are all contradictory - from some things I've read, I believe Ramses II had cavalry scouts before Kadesh (not that he used them, of course :laugh4: :laugh4: ), and there are mentions of "Libyan horsemen" around that era. Same problems surround chariots -- many sources say they originated in Mesopotamia, but I believe the archaeology suggests they (like so many other equestrian developments) came from the steppes with the Aryans. Either way, we will need some steppe chariots :2thumbsup:

Certainly by my "high" era, Assyria will have cav archers, and possibly melee cav.

Likely eras:
early - 1275BC to 1100BC (175yrs)
high - 1100BC to 900BC (200yrs) - Iron becomes available, some cav
late - 900BC to 700BC (200yrs) - cavalry widespread, chariots in decline

575 years should be more than enough for even the slowest conquerors :beam:

I've done a bit more reading on chariot runners - pity most of the Google searches end up with WarHammer sites :clown: - but generally it seems bows and javelins were commonly used to disable the horses, then daggers or swords for close-quarter killing of crews. I think I'll stick to javelins. Apparently the Egyptians used their Sherdan troops for chariot running, so I will make my Sherdan mercenary unit dismountable into a light chariot runner with sword and javelin, and no shield. In their "heavy infantry" mode, I will keep sword and shield, but no javelin. For later periods there's also good evidence for "horse slasher" units - it will certainly add some variety to the standard spear/polearm options (good anti-cav attack, fear to horses, and less defence than spears).

More later ...

Hi somme links:
http://www.sbh-gent.be/klassiek.htm#Anchor1.2
http://www.larp.com/hoplite/bronze.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sieges#Ancient
http://www.edupics.com/coloring-page...lothes-146.htm
Maybe you cane do sommething with it

Thanks, Axel! Some useful info in there :2thumbsup:

Hi mate,
I hope so, ill be looking for more mate:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

Hi mate,
http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpos...o/default.aspx
http://home.zonnet.nl/postbus/Grechts.html
http://histoforum.digischool.nl/ict/aklink2b.htm#Sparta
If i find more ill post them:egypt:

Hi mate s
Maps :http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/Anci.../AncientL.html
http://www.bible-history.com/art/amaps.htm
http://members.aol.com/TeacherNet/Ancient.html
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/Art...ient_World.htm
http://images.google.nl/images?q=anc...mages&ct=title
Maybe this helps you with names for the campain map :egypt:

Somme info

ca 1552-1085 vC Egypte 18/20 Dynasty
ca 1479-1425 vC Farao Toetmosis III on top of Egypte power
ca 1364-1347 vC Farao Achnaton
ca 1347-1337 vC Farao Toetanchamon
ca 1289-1224 vC Farao Ramses II
ca 1085-664 vC 21/25 Egypte Dynasty

ca 1600-1100 vC Myceners rules on the main lands of Greece capitol Mycene
ca 1100-800 vC Dark age`s of Greece

ca 1140 vC Feniciërs make kolonie`s: Utica in North-africa
ca 814 vC city of Carthago is made in North-africa

ca 1200 vC Mozes leads the Hebreeërs out of Egypte (There are 12 Tribes )
ca 1010 vC David became king of Israël after Saul
ca 960 vC Salomo built`s first tempel in Jeruzalem
ca 923 vC The death of salomo: His empire splits in 2
ca 722 vC The Assyriërs conquer Israël

ca 1285 vC Battle of Kadesh between Hettiëten and Egypte no winners
ca 1200 vC Hettitische empire kalaps under pressure of the sea people
ca 1000-612 vC Assyrische new empire takes lot of land
ca 883-859 vC King AssoernasirpalII built s a big paleis in Nimrod
ca 745-727 vC King Tiglatpileser conquers Israël
ca 721-705 vC King Sargon II Built s paleis in Khorsabad

ca 1595-1155 vC Kassieten rules over Babylon
ca 1126-1105 vC Coverment of Neboekadnessar
ca 731-626 vC Assyriërs and Chaldeeën fight over power Babylon

ca 900 vC The citystate Sparta is made of the people: the Doriërs
ca 800-500 vC The periode of Archaisch (dark age`s of Greece)
ca 775 vC First Olympic games
ca 750-550 vC A lot of Greek kolonie`s are made over the middlelands sea

ca 800 vC A lot of Celtic tribes move`s to the west of Europe them are little tribe s in forts on hills

ca 753 vC The beginning of Rome

ca 900 vC Kingdom of Kush in Nubië (now North of Soedan and North Nigeria)
in war with Egypte

Somme names i saw in a book:
Iberiërs = Spain
Kelts = West Europe (France, Belgium, A part of Germany )
Liguriërs = North Italy
Etrusken = Middle Italy
Italiërs = South Italy
Sicilië = Sicilië
Illyriërs = Balklands (Servie and Croatie and more)
Thraciërs = North Greece
Getae = Lands on the west of the Black sea
Scythen = Lands on the North of the Black sea ( horse people)
Phrygië = West Turkey
Libyërs = Egypte
Numidiërs = North africa ( Tunesie and Marroko )
Slaven = Middle Russia
Balten = North - west Russia
Germanen = From Denmark to Holland to North Germany and somme more )
Hittieten = East black sea and then moved to Turkey
Sarmaten = moved from the North - east of the lands of the Black sea

Well thats it for now i hope i did nt make any misstake s and i hope this will help you

Greetings:2thumbsup:

Quick update:

* Sherdan chariot-runners added (dismounted Sherdan mercs)
* Cimmerian horse archers added to steppe rebel provinces
* Celtic swordsmen and Slav warriors added to relevant factions
* Trade goods and resources placed on map
* Chariot dismounts added for some factions/chariot types
* Shaman agent added for pagans (emissary with faith propagation)
* Medianite cameliers now dismount to eastern archers
* Hittites, Assyrians and Egyptians start with historical kings (Muwatilis I, Adad-Nirari I, and Ramses II)

Found out some interesting things in the prod_files: units can come from different buildings - ie trainable in EITHER building A OR building B by using this in the building dependency column:

{ {buildingA},{buildingB} }

whereas using {buildingA, buildingB} means that BOTH buildings must be present to train that unit.

I've used this for making "muslim" emissaries in the "mosque" (Temple), and "catholic" ones in the Court of Law, and it seems to work :2thumbsup: Which means that I can have multiple tech-trees where different factions can train the same units but in different buildings.

The next problem I want to solve is to make iron-dependent buildings only available in High and Late periods, but there doesn't seem to be anyway to do it, other than stacking up the pre-requisite buildings and build times :thumbsdown: It's easy to make iron-dependent UNITS high/late only, but buildings don't have an era column... The only other option is to try to use "historical events" eg gunpowder becomes iron, or have some invention requirement, but I don't know how, yet.

Still loads to do, but it is quite playable so far, hope to have a BETA (or more probably a GAMMA) release before too long.

:2thumbsup:

Edit: also found some things which have caused problems with HTW - earliest possible start date is year 40 - any earlier than this you run the risk of kings with an age of -64,000 years! Needless to say they die the next turn, game over..... However, as I wanted to start in year 25 (to be 1275BC - year 0 =1300BC), I decided instead to change it to 125 (year 0 = 1400BC) and found that the old HTW habit of kings marrying commoners in the first two turns has now stopped. Obviously something to do with the early start date making the kings a bit too eager to procreate. Now there is TIME to go looking for foreign princesses. Yippee!

Another great leap forward Macsen ! ... Your updates are inspiring ,, do check your email as I sent the first batch of Sea-People pics to you ,, I'll send you Syrians and some other goodies 2mrow ,, I look forward to beta-release when ready ,, cheers for now ,, DTS

Cheers, Dimitrios - safely downloaded the pics :2thumbsup:

A lot of the figures look just right to use the same animation as the Greek militia from HTW BA (which is fine as that's what I've already used for my Sherdan mercenaries!) I can feel a few new units coming on....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macsen rufus

Found out some interesting things in the prod_files: units can come from different buildings - ie trainable in EITHER building A OR building B by using this in the building dependency column:

{ {buildingA},{buildingB} }

whereas using {buildingA, buildingB} means that BOTH buildings must be present to train that unit.

I've used this for making "muslim" emissaries in the "mosque" (Temple), and "catholic" ones in the Court of Law, and it seems to work :2thumbsup: Which means that I can have multiple tech-trees where different factions can train the same units but in different buildings.

---

IN PMTW I have up to 5-6 different sets of required buildings - I don't know if there are any limits in this matter, actually, but 6 is perfectly enough I believe.

Quote:

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The next problem I want to solve is to make iron-dependent buildings only available in High and Late periods, but there doesn't seem to be anyway to do it, other than stacking up the pre-requisite buildings and build times :thumbsdown:

---

It is impossible. The only thing MTW VI engine really lacks - at least other flaws hurt less than this one...

Hi mate
check out this link : http://home.swipnet.se:80/~w-63448/mesbro.htm
i think there s a lot of info here

Hi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_states
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/dynasties.htm

Historical empires
Early empires
Elamite Empire (c. 2700 BC - 539 BC)
Akkadian Empire (c. 2350 BC - 2150 BC)
Ur III Empire (c. 2100 BC - 2000 BC)
Babylonian Empire (c. 1900 BC - 1600 BC)
Egyptian Empire (1550 BC - 1070 BC)
Hittite Empire (c. 1460 BC - 1180 BC)
Israelite Empire (1050 BC - 920 BC)
Assyrian Empire (c. 900 BC - 612 BC)
Achaemenid Empire (Persian Empire, c. 550 BC - 330 BC)
Magadhan Empire (500 BC - 300/139 BC?)
Macedonian Empire (c. 338 BC - 309 BC)
Mauryan Empire (321 BC - 185 BC)
Seleucid Empire (323 BC - 60 BC)
Chinese Empire (221 BC - 1912) (Various inter-Imperial periods excluded)
Parthian Empire (c. 200 BC – 224)
Armenian Empire (190 BC - 165)
Roman Empire (27 BC - 476)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_empires
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_states

Glad you like em Mac ,, I'll get those Assyrians , Egyptians , Syrians & other biblicals to you as well as the web address of where i got em ,, I also have some really great pictures of fortifications & such which are ideal for parchments / scripts & review panel bifs ,, You will get those as well ,, " Are you creating new figures/animations now ? " ... I have Paintshop Pro5 and would like to start helping out somehow/ if possible ,, If the threads & tools are available I would like to try my hand at making Campaign map peices , those Samurai ones are brilliant , I also liked Cegorach bifs in the review panel ,, cheers for now ,, DTS

Great site Axel ,,, Really well laid out should the mod retrace its steps into the golden age of Mesopotamian ,, cheers ,, DTS

Morning all, I'm a bit groggy at work today -- was up til 3am trying to pin down a CTD after I changed my faction shields for the Germanic faction :wall: :wall:

Needless to say, I'd saved them in all the right folders, changed the colour indexing, checked bit depth, sizes, transparent colours, took them out of the startpos one-by-one etc, and finally found one file that hadn't been copied into every folder it was needed in....

Anyway -- here it is. The symbol is based on a religious (solar) motif from a Germanic Bronze age site found in Denmark

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/germanic.jpg


EDIT: a bit more on the Germanic faction

This is turning into one of my favourite pagan factions. You'll see from the image above that the King is not a chariot unit. There is no archaeological evidence for Germanic chariots in this era (although they did know about chariots as per the "Sun chariot" statuette). Their unit roster so far:

Tribal axemen (BG unit - valour bonus in Norway - starts as rebel province)
Slingers
Tribal warriors ('club-wielding nutters' ~D)
Tribal archers
Tribal spears (faction advantage - cheaper to train)
Tribal swordsmen
Berserkers (now with older, downgraded BRONZE swords)
Shaman (new AGENT - emissary with faith propagation)


Starting provinces are Sweden, Scania and Denmark. The names are a mix of German and Scandinavian with all obviously Biblical names removed. Pagan tech tree, which includes livestock farming and pagan shrines.

They're certainly different to the other pagan factions due to the lack of chariots, and a different fighting style is called for because of that. That's why they have the spear advantage. I'm not sure whether I'll keep the berserkers as a purely Germanic unit, as it seems there was a widespread and ancient "berserker tradition" amongst Indo-Europeans, and they even turn up as mercenaries/subject peoples in Assyrian records. For now, only the Germanics have them...

Hi Dts
Wot do you meen mate?? change names or wrong links??
please tell me:2thumbsup:

Thanks for all the links and info everyone, I'm really getting some material together (last night I checked my "research" folder on the PC - 1.2GB, of assorted images, text, webpages etc :2thumbsup: )

@Cegorach - six options for training sounds very good! I really can't see me needing more than four at most (one for each culture) but it's good to know I can take it further if need be. I've also followed your lead on "dismounting" and renamed it to "Can change battle mode" - sounds so much better...

Something else I'm going to try is "battle mode chains" - if it works it could be real fun - ie Unit A --> Unit B, but what happens if also Unit B --> Unit C? I want to find out if the engine will allow Unit A --> Unit B --> Unit C. Okay, I'm not sure how many uses they might go to, but I was thinking in particular about chariots dismounting. What I would like is for Egyptian chariots --> Armoured archers --> Egyptian archers (ie can go a step further and take off their armour for the desert :beam: )

I currently have Eg chariots dismountable as Eg archers, but as chariot crews wore some armour, there really should be an armoured archer unit as well (which I'll need to make).

@Dimitrios: as far as unit animations go, I don't really have the tools or the time to make my own from scratch (I'm amazed at how many units Cegorach has made for PMTW :dizzy2: ) but what I can do fairly easily is add in new weapons and shields to exisiting bodies. (I have some ideas in store for the Celts, especially....)

Later ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macsen rufus

@Cegorach - six options for training sounds very good! I really can't see me needing more than four at most (one for each culture) but it's good to know I can take it further if need be. I've also followed your lead on "dismounting" and renamed it to "Can change battle mode" - sounds so much better...

Something else I'm going to try is "battle mode chains" - if it works it could be real fun - ie Unit A --> Unit B, but what happens if also Unit B --> Unit C? I want to find out if the engine will allow Unit A --> Unit B --> Unit C. Okay, I'm not sure how many uses they might go to, but I was thinking in particular about chariots dismounting. What I would like is for Egyptian chariots --> Armoured archers --> Egyptian archers (ie can go a step further and take off their armour for the desert :beam: )

---

Nothing. It is either it or the other option - there is no chain of dismounts so it will be A or B - if B dismounts as well it matters not to A.

Quote:

---

(I'm amazed at how many units Cegorach has made for PMTW :dizzy2: )

---

It wasn't me, but other people (strreety, duke John, YanTraken + stuff from other mods) , mainly YanTraken from Poland.

Of course I gave detailed instructionsin amny cases learning how to create the animations on my own actually.
Increadible how many options were not used at all by some paople.:juggle2:

Morning Cegorach - hats off to Yan TRaken & the rest of the team anyway! You have certainly pushed the limits with unit types and novel ideas though which is a good part of the appeal of PMTW :2thumbsup:

I didn't actually get around to checking out the multiple dismount idea, but I suspected it would be as you said. I need to debug my Germanic princess names as they were causing CTDs last night - first noted as CTD when opening the "heirs" panel, then waited til my first princess emerged and a right-click on her caused another CTD, and the heirs panel still caused CTD. So I married her off, which worked fine... after which the heirs panel worked properly. All I can think is that if the princess "works" on the camp map, but I can't access her parchment or the heirs panel, it HAS to be related to the names, it's all that's left ..... or maybe ages? Hmmm, will have to think more. No the age must be fine as she emerged properly.

All of which meant that this new unit didn't get finished off last night, but it's coming along - the lowest of the low on Bronze Age battlefields - the Egyptian Djamu. These are mace-wielding militia units, with lousy stats, but available from musterfields everywhere. I hope by tonight I'll be able to give them shields, so they might stand more of a chance against these tower-shield spearmen :laugh4:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ufus/djamu.jpg

More later...

Okay! I went down to the Pharaoh's armoury last night and gave them the design for the shield. It is my great pleasure to report that Djamu militiamen now enter battle duly protected:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l.../new_djamu.jpg

Just for a bit of practice I used faction colours, and it seems to have worked - even with shading :beam:

Also re-did the review panel bits for them, so we don't have old-style urban militia images (although I haven't done the battle icon yet, as I haven't installed Ultimate Paint - I'll do all the new ones in a big batch as it's limited-use shareware).

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...amu_review.jpg

And whilst I was playing around with shields and animations, thought I'd redo the Sherdan shield - as you can tell from the pics, I found out how the two-sided shields are implemented...

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...ew_sherdan.jpg

Back at lunchtime :2thumbsup:

>> You are spoiling us Macsen !!!! << Looking forward with vigour & enthusiasm to beta-test these troops ,, More images coming your way tonite ,, cheers for now ,, DTS

@DTS - latest batch of pics received - there are some awesome forts in there :2thumbsup: And I might remake some details of the hittites, too.

Looking at those shields again, I'm not totally happy with the bosses, and I reckon I could also make it two-sided as well.... Then maybe get on with a few more Egyptian units - heavy spears springs to mind, and some kophesh swordsmen (need to make a new weapon for that). And I might redo the shield for the Assyrian spears, too.

I've also pretty much decided that for the "High" era (1100 - 900BC) I shall be including the Phoenicians and Kingdom of Israel. By 800BC Carthage had been established, so the Phoenicians really need to be included...

The Minoans will be removed as they'd gone by 1300BC, and I will use their slot for Alisya (Cyprus) and see if they can avoid becoming Hittite vassals this time around :laugh4: I had a little play with the 'Minoans' on Cyprus, and it is a viable start position, though not without challenges. Its historical role as a major exporter of copper will play a significant part for that faction.

Thanks to some of Axel's links I have loads of info on Egyptian administration, and some good material for titles and offices.

More later, lunch break over...

macsen rufus,
It looks great :2thumbsup:
you let me know if i cane do sommething more mate!:2thumbsup:
I am glad i could help out:egypt:

Hi Axel, yes, keep the links coming - saves me a lot of time on Google during my lunch break :beam:

What I really need is a good selection of Egyptian male portraits for Generals (I've got plenty of Pharaohs now) and a few more for princesses.

Thanks everyone for the support and encouragement - it will be worth it!
Cheers - I'm taking Saturday off work this weekend, so an extra 24hrs modding time!!!

Hi mate
ill trye to find somme potraits and links mate:yes:

Hi mate
http://www.tigtail.org/TIG/L_View/TV...eco-roman.html
http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/menu.html
http://showcase.netins.net/web/ankh/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Kingdom
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pharaohs.htm
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/topics/army.htm
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/glossary.htm
http://classroomclipart.com/cgi-bin/...War_and_Armies
http://classroomclipart.com/cgi-bin/.../Ancient_Egypt
http://www.geocities.com/modernegypt.../index_eng.htm
http://www.ancient-egypt.org/
http://www.angelfire.com/me3/egyptgoddess/
Ill will find somme more mate

Hi mate
somme new links:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos
somme nice pics in here as well http://touregypt.net/featurestories/hyksos.htm
Here s a list of kings but it is in dutch mate:

DERTIENDE DYNASTIE 1795-na 1650 v.CHR
Ca. 70 vorsten van wie de meest genoemde in de onder-
staande lijst staan
Hor (Awaibre) {geen data bekend}
Chendjer (Oeserkare) {geen data bekend}
Sobechotep III (Sachemrasewadjtawi) {geen data bekend}
Neferhotep I (Chasechemre) {geen data bekend}
Sobechotep IV (Chanefrerre) ,ca. 1725 v.CHR
VEERTIENDE DYNASTIE ,ca. 1750-ca.1650 v.CHR
Groepen minder belangrijke heersers, waarschijnlijk uit
dezelfde tijd als de konigen uit de dertiende dynastie
TWEEDE TUSSEN-TIJD ,ca. 1650-ca.1550 v.CHR
VIJFTIENDE DYNASTIE (HYKSOS) ,ca. 1650-ca.1550 v.CHR
Salitis {geen data bekend}
Chyan (Seuserenre) ,ca. 1600 v.CHR
Apepi (Aaoeserre) ,ca. 1555 v.CHR
Chamoedi {geen data bekend}
ZESTIENDE DYNASTIE ,ca. 1650-ca.1550 v.CHR
Onbelangrijke Hyksos-heersers, uit dezelfde tijd als de
koningen van de vijftiende dynastie
ZEVENTIENDE DYNASTIE ,ca. 1650-ca.1550 v.CHR
Verscheidene heersers gebaseerd in Thebe, van wie de
bekendste hieronder staan
Antef (Noebcheperre) {geen data bekend}
Ta'a I (Senachtenre) {geen data bekend}
Ta'a II (Sekenenre) ,ca. 1560 v.CHR
Kamose (Wadjcheperre) ,ca. 1555-ca.1550 v.CHR
NIEUWE RIJK ,ca. 1550-ca.1069 v.CHR
ACHTTIENDE DYNASTIE ,ca. 1550-ca.1295 v.CHR
Ahmose (Nebpehtyre) ,ca. 1550-ca.1525 v.CHR
Amenhotep I (Djeserkare) ,ca. 1525-ca.1504 v.CHR
Thoetmoses I (Aacheperkare) ,ca. 1504-ca.1492 v.CHR
Thoetmoses II (Aacheperenre) ,ca. 1492-ca.1479 v.CHR
Thoetmoses III (Menchpererre) ,ca. 1479-ca.1425 v.CHR
Hatsjepsoet (Maatkare) ,ca. 1473-ca.1458 v.CHR
Amenhotep II (Aacheperoere) ,ca. 1427-ca.1400 v.CHR
Thoetmoses IV (Mencheperoere) ,ca. 1400-ca.1390 v.CHR
Amenhotep III (Nebmaatre) ,ca. 1390-ca.1352 v.CHR
Amenhotep IV-Achnaton
(Nefercheperoerawaenre) ,ca. 1352-ca.1336 v.CHR
(Nefernefroeaton (Semenechkare) ,ca. 1338-ca.1336 v.CHR
Toetanchamon (Nebcheperoere) ,ca. 1336-ca.1327 v.CHR
Eye (Chepercheperoere) ,ca. 1327-ca.1323 v.CHR
Horemheb (Djesercheperoere) ,ca. 1323-ca.1295 v.CHR
NEGENTIENDE DYNASTIE ,ca. 1295-ca.1186 v.CHR
Ramses I (Menpehtyre) ,ca. 1295-ca.1294 v.CHR
Seti I (Menmaatre) ,ca. 1294-ca.1279 v.CHR
Ramses II (Oesermaatre Setepenre) ,ca. 1279-ca.1213 v.CHR
Merneptah (Baenre) ,ca. 1213-ca.1203 v.CHR
Amenmesse (Menmire) ,ca. 1203-ca.1200 v.CHR
Seti II (Oesercheperoer Setepenre) ,ca. 1200-ca.1194 v.CHR
Siptah (Achenra Setepenre) ,ca. 1194-ca.1188 v.CHR
Koningin Tawosret (Sitrameritamoen) ,ca. 1188-ca.1186 v.CHR
TWINTIGSTE DYNASTIE ,ca. 1186-ca.1069 v.CHR
Sethnachte (Oeserchaure Meryamoen) ,ca. 1186-ca.1184 v.CHR
Ramses III (Oesermaatre Meryamoen) ,ca. 1184-ca.1153 v.CHR
Ramses IV (Hekamaatre Setepenamoen) ,ca. 1153-ca.1147 c.CHR
Ramses V (Oesermaatre Setepenre Meryamoen) ,ca. 1147-ca.1143 v.CHR
Ramses VI (Nebmaatre Meryamoen) ,ca. 1143-ca.1136 v.CHR
Ramses VII (Oesermaatre Setepenre Meryamoen) ,ca. 1136-ca.1129 v.CHR
Ramses VIII (Oesermaatre Achenamoen) ,ca. 1129-ca.1126 v.CHR
Ramses IX (Neferkare Setepenre) ,ca. 1126-ca.1108 v.CHR
Ramses X (Chepermaatre Setepenre) ,ca. 1108-ca.1099 v.CHR
Ramses XI (Menmaatre Setepenptah) ,ca. 1099-ca.1069 v.CHR
DERDE TUSSEN-TIJD ,ca. 1069-.ca.747 v.CHR
EENENWINTIGSTE DYNASTIE ,ca. 1069-ca.945 v.CHR
(TANIS)
Smendes (Hedjcheperre Setepenre) ,ca. 1069-ca.1043 v.CHR
Anemenmesoe (Neferkare) ,ca. 1043-ca.1039 v.CHR
Psoesennes I [Pasebachaennioet]
(Aacheperre Setepenamoen) ,ca. 1039-ca.991 v.CHR
Amenmope (Oesermaatre Setepenamoen) ,ca. 993-ca.984 v.CHR
Osorkon de Oude (Aacheperre Setepenre) ,ca. 984-ca.978 v.CHR
Siamoen (Netjrcheperre Setepenamoen) ,ca. 978-ca.959 v.CHR
Psoesennes II [Pasebachaennioet]
(Ticheperoere Setepenre) ,ca. 959-ca.945 v.CHR
TWEEENTWINTIGSTE DYNASTIE
(Libische dynastie of van Boebastis) ,ca. 945-ca.715 v.CHR
Sjesjonk I (Hedjcheperre Setepenre) ,ca. 945-ca.924 v.CHR
Osorkon I (Sechemcheperre) ,ca. 924-ca.889 v.CHR
Sjesjonk II (Hekacheperre Setepenre) ,ca. 890 v.CHR
Takelot I ,ca. 889-ca.874 v.CHR
Osorkon II (Usermaatre Setepenamoen) ,ca. 874-ca.850 v.CHR
Takelot II (Hedjcheperre Setepenre Amoen) ,ca. 850-ca.825 v.CHR
Sjesjonk III (Oesermaatre) ,ca. 825-ca.773 v.CHR
Pami (Oesermaatre) ,ca. 773-ca.767 v.CHR
Sjesjonk V (Aacheperre) .ca. 767-ca.730 v.CHR
Osorkon IV (Aacheperre Setepenamoen) ,ca. 730-ca.715 v.CHR
DRIEENTWINTIGSTE DYNASTIE
(TANIS/LIBIE) ,ca. 818-ca.715 v.CHR
Diverse gelijktijdig voorkomende lijnen heersers in Heracleo-
polis Magna, Hermopolis Magna, Leontopolis en Tanis, van
wie drie hieronder staan
Petoebastis I (Oesermaatre) ,ca. 818-ca.793 v.CHR
Sjesjonk IV ,ca. 780 v.CHR
Osorkon III (Oesermaatre Setepenamoen) ,ca. 777-ca.749 v.CHR
VIERENTWINTIGSTE DYNASTIE ,ca. 727-715 v.CHR
Bakenrenef (Bokchoris) ,ca. 727-ca.715 v.CHR

http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/engindex.html
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/seti1.htm
http://www.globalegyptianmuseum.org/...ry.aspx?id=344
http://www.carlos.emory.edu/COLLECTION/
http://www.omnibusol.com/anegypt.html
http://www.digitalegypt.ucl.ac.uk/fo...ons/war.html#1
http://members.aol.com/skyelander/celts5.html
http://www.egyptartstore.bigstep.com...?UCIDs=1027246
http://www.egyptartsite.com/old.html
http://www.egyptartsite.com/mapindex.html

Its verry strange i cant find no names from acient (egypt) generals, only a list of rank:
- De farao
- High councelers, priests and Generals
- soldiers and low councelers
- marketworkers and work people
- Farmers
- Slaves

So i hope it helps a bit :2thumbsup:

Wow ... Plenty of sites there alex ,,,, well done mate ....

Hi mate
yes i hope they are usefull aswell mate, every thing to help mate :2thumbsup:

Hi again
I found a link with potraits:
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/portraiture/4d.htm
i found a forum i will get a pass word and trey to log in and ask more info ill post it if i get somme mate

Hi Macsen ,, Just realised the Sea People used Warwagons probably twice to three times the size of a chariot ,, Perhaps Cegorach can assist or give permission to reskin his awesome looking peices from the PMTW mod ...What you say Cegorach ?? ,,,cheers ,, DTS

Take what you want.;)

You will discover that the animations are pretty simple in design, but ancient re-design will be rather dificult comparing to the original, at least.:book:

Thanks Cegorach ,, Im sure Macsen will consider it ,, Is it possible to use Rome TW portraits , parchments , images ? As I have seen mods using MTW portraits .... cheers ,, DTS

Hi
Here mate: http://euler.slu.edu/Dept/Faculty/ba...gypt_Page.html
If you press kings and queens you will get pics of them :2thumbsup:
http://www.osirisnet.net/e_map.htm
http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/saqqara/homepage.htm
here somme good potraits: http://www.suziemanley.com/famous_egyptians/index.html
http://www.mmc.gov.eg/History/gg1.htm
Wel thats it for now mate`s more will comme :2thumbsup:

Hi
I got one name who wos a general his name is : Horemb he became farao later i think?

Hi
A other name`s popt up from the new age: Ahmose, son of Ebana. He became admiral later on. Ahmose, Pen-nekhbet wos an generaal.

And under Tuthmosis III there where a fue generals most importend one wos Generaal Djehuty. He wos a legend in the story of conquering Joppa.

Here you see a fue graves from armyleaders:http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/nobles/e_nob1.htm

Amenemose, Tjanuny, Amenemhab en Nebamon where all soldiers.

The grave in Saqqara of Horemheb its a tressuere of information about the army atthe end of the 18e dynasty (ca 1350 BC) here is a link of it: http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/saqq...eb_surface.htm

In the periode of Ramesses de Grote (ca 1250 BC) a fue of his sons hade a titel of a generaal. look at website: http://euler.slu.edu/Dept/Faculty/ba...gypt_Page.html

so thats it for now mate`s:egypt:

Looks like you've all been busy over the weekend! :2thumbsup:

I've got a good list of Egyptian names, and as many of them were compound names, easy to make more (eg Tut-ankh- means "living image of...", so just add different god names at the end for lots of new names...) I have made a few more princess portraits from last week's gleanings, so I currently have 5 Egyptian princesses, and I have more files to plunder yet. Shouldn't need too many for princesses.

Over the weekend I've added a new building to the tech-tree - woodworker - level 1 is "Carpenter" - prerequisite for spearmaker and bowyer (and I will also make it pre-req for shipbuilidng as well), level 2 "Wheelwright" - required for chariots.

I've also used bit of a work-around for the metalsmith line to accommodate bronze and iron. Originally the HTW BA metalsmith had four levels, with copper or iron resource requirement. I've split this into two buildings:

Level 1 "Metalsmith" - available everywhere (w +1)
Level 2 "Metalsmith's workshop" - upgrade which requires copper mine (for improved bronze weapons only - w +2)

Other building:
Level 3 "Metalsmith's Guild" - requires iron - (w +3) (metalsmith as pre-requisite, but not a direct upgrade)
Level 4 "Master Metalsmith" - (w +4)

Build requirements are pretty high for the second line, so it will be a while before "iron" weapons come on-line. This also more accurately models the Bronze Age / Iron Age transition because iron weapons were available in this time frame, though pretty rare. After all, it wasn't a case of one day all bronze, next day all iron :beam: The Hittites were using iron before Qadesh, for instance.

I still have the option now to have iron-specific units available in the "High" era (but let's get the early era sorted first!)

I've also done a bit of tweaking on the campmap review panel so it's an all-bronze background. Other changes I'm making: no mercenaries except as trainable units (I got fed up of Nubian archers turning up in the Baltic :no: ). I've set all units as "not mercenary" in the unit_prod, but need to get rid of the "shady meeting place" buildings to remove the mercenary capability from the buildings. "Mercenary" units will be available on a homeland & faction limited basis (eg Sherdan available in a few coastal provinces with swordsmith + port, for Egyptians and Libyans only - remember the Libyans hired Sherdan earlier than Egypt did, and Cimmerian cavalry available to anyone in Khazar and Lesser Khazar with quite high build requirements, and VERY expensive)

I finally remembered the .worksundays. cheat code which makes testing new buildings and tech tree changes a lot quicker.

I've made a few startpos changes, with faction "capitals" being a bit more built up. Addition of new buildings (like woodworker) make it slower process building up the conquered provinces, and gives more need to produce militia-style troops for garrison (slingers, tribal warriors, djamu etc).

A few new review-panel graphics and info pics for new units (I must say I'm pretty pleased with all the Egyptian ones :beam: )

Battle flags straightened out so they all match the faction shields properly - there will probably be more redesigns and faction colour changes, but for now at least they are consistent.

I took a quick run as the Libyans, and realised a few cock-ups in their unit roster (mostly gave them a load of units not trainable in their homeland!) so have started making new units for them, starting with a Libyan spear unit which works okay in battle, and makes it worth them building a spearmaker now :laugh4:

Libyans so far:

Light chariots (BG unit) - javelins
Nubian archers (Cyrenaica only)*
Nubian spears (Cyrenaica only)*
Sherdan mercenaries (Cyrenaica only)*
Libyan spearmen (Cyrenaica valour bonus) [Much tougher than Nubian spears]
Slingers

*province limits are only regarding starting lands, may be available in other conquered provinces

Once they have conquered the appropriate provinces they will also get access to eastern (Syrian) archers, and camels (now re-named as 'Aramaean cameliers', by the way).

This roster really needs bulking out, but I need more basic research on Libyan armies of the 13thC BC. Also Berber names (their current King is called Aethelstan, a HTW hang over :laugh4: ).

I was planning to have more screenies for you, but it was late on Sunday night when I realised we had changed clocks to summer time and I didn't have enough time left - hopefully tomorrow.

Another thing I'm working on is a little spreadsheet to allow for rescaling of shields without having to rewrite all of the positioning co-ordinates one by one (48 lines of 4 pairs of coordinates for EACH type of action....) Should be pretty straightforward once I get the geometry right!

Okay that's enough for now...

Edit: @Axel - I can understand a little Nederlands, but it doesn't go much beyond "Een witbier, alst u blieft... dank u wel..." I studied German at school, and what bits of Nederlands aren't like English, are more like German. Put the two together, and you can work out a lot. And I worked in Zeeland for a few months recently, but I've already forgotten most of what I learnt there (too much witbier....) I can even say "S'cheveningen" properly :laugh4:)

LOOOOOOOOOOOool witbier ye thats nice mate, i hade the same problem when i came to Holland lol scheveningen and acht (eigth) now both holland and UK talking and writting sucks somme times lol hehehehe

yes mate i have been busy lol made a lot of hours collecting info
Do you need more info mate??? and if so tell me wot info you need mate and ill find out :2thumbsup: :egypt:

Hi Axel - I've still not looked at all the latest links yet, so I've got plenty to get on with for now. I just found a nice list of Berber (or Amazigh) names for the Libyans, so that one's sorted - I'll copy them across tonight and no more King Aethelstan :laugh4: It's amazing the sort of stuff you discover researching something as innocent as names - did you know in Morocco berber names are banned, you have to use Arabic - even though berbers are some 60% of the population - meh, it's so easy to get sidetracked on the internet!

More tomorrow...

Hi mate
No mate i didn t know marroco berbers are banned i alway s tought berber where a nick name for people on the hills of marroco
Do you have enough pics ????

Great progress Macsen ,, I like a lot of the things you are going to implement ,, about those Syrians they really weren't that versatile in their makeup or so the scholars tell us but I think adding extra units for them as well is a good thing ! I mean if i was a Libyan or Syrian king and my enemies had armoured spearmen and chariots why the hell would I only have slingers and skirmishers runing around disorganised and half naked ?? ... Im sure it isn't as the DBA & DBM army lists say it is ....anyway this is why this time period is such a good one as a little flexibility and imagination can make for one awesome experience ,, talk again soon about more bifs & eye candy ,, cheers ,, DTS

Morning all, well I was about to post up some new screenshots, but photobucket is down for maintenance just now.

I've been working on the Libyans, so a quick summary:

* Libyans now have Amazigh (berber) names, and a good long list of them too (more princess names than most factions have for male names, so far...)
* New unit: Amazigh horsemen (light cav with javelins, small units)
* Nearly-new unit: allowed Sherdan chariot runners as a trainable unit for Libyans only (Cyr. + Tunisia)

Also swapped the slingers around, so they are "heavy" type by default, dismountable to "light" type. This is because the AI rarely (never?) dismounts troops and heavy slingers have flaming missile capabilities for sieges - would put AI at a disadvantage in the early game. The light slinger has more ammo, more range, but no flaming or armour-piercing missiles.

Mercenary system now disabled fully.

Screenies to follow...


EDIT: And here they are:

Wheelwright info:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...heelwright.jpg

Libya invades Egypt!

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l.../prebattle.jpg

Libyan army info:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...army_stats.jpg

The Libyan battle line, showing Libyan spears, Sherdan runners and Sherdan mercenaries:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...attle_line.jpg

Amazigh cavalry in action:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...mazigh_cav.jpg

The results - Ramses II taken prisoner!!

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...fus/result.jpg

Brilliant work!

I have always liked MTW's look when it comes to gaming the ancient periods: the parchment, pics and map....

This mod will be a welcome addition to my gaming mojo.... :yes:

Looking great mate woowie really nice:2thumbsup:

I really need to redo the battle uniticons, but I've finally installed UltimatePaint, so i should be able to get on with that once I've read up the appropriate threads from the Alchemists sub-forum... And Axel, I found quite a lot of useful portraits and a good Egyptian name list from your links, so I reckon the Egyptians are about sorted now :2thumbsup:

BTW King Mazigh is not a real historical character like Ramses, he is a mythical/legendary "first ancestor" acknowledged by the Amazigh peoples, sort of a berber Abraham, I guess. Luckily the namelist I found for Amazigh gave many of the meanings, so I've chosen ten names that sound appropriate, things like "Lion", "The First", "The Great One" etc etc

Dare I say it, but I might be able to release a beta version soon...

Hi mate
Ok if you need more of other army`s like the celts or other country`s, you just say it and ill find more :2thumbsup: