Granted fellows this may be a bit early, but I was wondering if there was a preliminary list of factions yet for EB2.
What factions that were left out from RTW's EB because of the faction limits could be put into EB2?
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Granted fellows this may be a bit early, but I was wondering if there was a preliminary list of factions yet for EB2.
What factions that were left out from RTW's EB because of the faction limits could be put into EB2?
I should imagine that Numidia, the Chatii and the Belgae are high on that list.
Perhaps numidia, maybe a rebel faction offshoot of the Romani, I personally wouldn't mind seeing Syracruse become a faction... would really turn sicily into chaos I bet.
Personally I would like to see another Germanic tribe to compete with the Sweboz or another Hellenic faction splitting the Koinion.
You know at one time I actually thought Persia still existed in 270 BC?
Some more Iberian factions would be in there, also hordes for civil wars:yes:
I know this might not make much sense but I would love to see a Goidilic faction! Think about, the Casse will have an early contender before they move on to Gaul they have to fight the men of Erian.:idea2: Plus I always wanted to conquer Rome as Ireland.
Illyria would also be welcome. Along with Chatti, Celto-Iberians, Numidia, Galatia, Syracuse, and maybe a Persian vassal state of the Arche Seleukia.:idea2:
Also some Danuban barbarians would be good. And how 'bout cisalpine gauls as a separate faction?
It hasn't been decided, but we'll probably want to keep these secret, and then slowly release them over time. Just to piss you guys off! :beam: There are some definites that we've already decided on (though we havent done any voting on them yet); factions that lost out to the saba and saka vote, when we put those two factions in.
Personally I would love to start working on EB2 when the next patch comes out, but we'll have to see about that. Currently we are working on the next big release, so that is priority for now.
Foot
Goidils didn't quite exist yet, but the Erain tribe did (from about the 5th century). At the time they'd just be Q-Celtic speaking Britons though, and would become Goidils sometime around 200 BC. They're something to think about anyway, I know I do, but mostly because I'm very bored, and it matters little if they get in or not to me, so long as I have something to do for the project.
In order of personal preference:
1) Bosphorian kingdom
2) Belgae (Bellovaci or Nervii)
3) Pergamon/Attalids
4) some representation of the Achean league - probably tricky
5) some faction between the Getai and Sweboz?
6) Galatians (in Anatolia) - Tylis maybe, but that seems stretched
7) Another Sauromatae confederation, Aorsi probably.
8) A new faction in transalpine Gaul
9) an emergent Romani rebel faction
I know they were kinda late in showing but they could still be an emerging faction like the Mongols and Timurids in MTW2.(Though I guess that means that you can't play as them, bummer.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Well, they'd not be 'emerging', it'd be like reforms. The Errain were Britons who became the first Gaels under subsequent influences and new settlers. They still remained the most powerful tribe and tribute hordes imply they ruled most of the island at a point, and probably parts of continental Armorica and British Caledonia at various times. Gaels weren't a random seperate tribe, it's a culture that emerged and included within it many different tribes. If they were in at all, they'd be the Errain tribe in southern Ireland, who would start out pretty similar to midland Britons, but develop differently as the game went on.
I recall there's a way around that problem using savegame files.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celt
I'd like to see Numidians, A new Germanic Faction, the Mauryan Empire (please!!), and perhaps the Yuezhi. I've always wondered why the Yuezhi were dropped, but have have never played pre-0.8 EB. Were there any other factions that were dropped before I discovered EB (just before 0.8 was released)?
Spread a little bit eastwards and add India. Perhaps?
1. Mauryan Empire
2. a rival Indian faction?
3. Yuezhi
4. Numidians
5. Syracuse
6. Bosphoran Kingdom
7. Aorsi
8. a Celt-Iberian tribe
9. a Germanic tribe to rival Sweboz, preferably in east of Germany
10. Belgae
EDIT: Syracuse could be sacrificed in place of either a Goidil faction, Transalpine Gaul faction, or Rebel Roman faction
I knew there would be supporters, that faction could have so many possibilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
I don;t think Numidia wes united at the time the game starts and I don't think we know how united tribes like the Chatti were though I could be wrong.
For me likely factions would be
Erain
Syracuse
Lugii (much needed to balance the Sweboz in central Europe)
Possibly Cyrene (they were aggressive in the period)
Hopefully Galatia (for so many reasons, their unique position as Celts in Asia, their 'wildmen.'
Pergamum
Could split the Koinon into the two leagues.
could split Sarmations though into what I'm not sure.
Just a question for any team member, have you considered Rhodes as a faction? I know how strange that sounds but the city had one of the most powerful naval forces in the med, one to rival Carthage. It would be a fairly unique faction because it would rely on naval power to great degree.
Yes but which other tribe in Trans-Alpine Gaul is strong enough to deserve another faction slot? The Belgae, or the Helvetii, maybe? The Belgae might help keep the Sweboz in check.Quote:
Originally Posted by K COSSACK
There would be no rival Indian faction Chandragupta and his successors controlled the entire subcontinent except for the Southern tip, which was divided into small tribes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr
As for a rebel Roman faction, I would prefer not to see a faction slot wasted on that. I always found it annoying in BI that whenever a city rebelled against you as the W or ERE it would join this "Rebel Roman" faction. Why would a city who just freed itself from the tyranny of the Roman emperor join another Roman faction under a new emperor? I think that the faction slot could be used in much better ways.
MTW2 has 198 province limit VS RTW's 199. Which means one province gets axed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaesarAugustus
And I don't think anyone on team would want thus to expand the map further east. Which also leads to the reason the Mauryans will probably NOT be included as their political centre was in eastern India and including only parts of that faction is a no.
The Yuezhi were dropped since at 272 BC they did not inhabit any areas on the EB map and it took over a century until they did.
Also a sad consideration is that while model limit in MTW2 seems to be limitless (RTW had 255 model slots) the unit limit on 500 is still in place, so any new factions should have a minimum of unique factional units.
I'd like to see a low-loyalty KH faction that can split into two.
Also, have you considered what to do with Jihads and Crusades? It'd be AWESOME if you gave certain factions some sort of 'Expeditionary Force' - basically a long range invasion - ability or just use something like that to start the second Punic War with a big Carthaginian Army marching across the Alps :-p. That would be fun.
Crap, I'd hoped that M2TW would allow more of the game to be modded but where it seems to give more, like the unlimited models, it takes away with the limits to provinces and units. Oh well it will still be great to see this mod move on to the next phase.
Oh and for another faction, how about Axum?
Cisalpine faction deserves to be there, or the Illyrians.
Also if 1 city is gone then let it beCarthagesomewhere in Russia.
And another Iberian faction would go in.
I can't wait to see what you guys do with M2. With everything ya'll have learned over the years...That's going to be something else.
I just hope there is way to implement some mid/late game civil war action for the Romani. That would add so much.
Sure if you want a faction with two units :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwardvs Primvs
Thrakia, Cheruskii, Numidia, Illyria, and Skythia or the Bastarnoz.
Weren't the Basternae the apparently green-haired, curved sword mercenaries in vanilla rtw?
I'd personally like to see:
- Another Barbarian faction, preferably one to compete with the Sweboz.
- Syracuse
- and a rebel Roman faction. The only thing I miss from vanilla *shiver* is some representation of the Roman civil war and its transition from a republic to an empire.
Kushan
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danest
I think that having Athends and Sparta as two seperate factions owuld be great, starting them allied at the start. Rhodes would also be good, though maybe that slot could be better used.
Pergamon is a great idea as well.
Another Gaelic faction would be cool, perhaps one of the Belgic tribes?
Another Germanic faction would be nice.
Another Iberian tribe? Perhaps the Celtiberians?
Oh and of course the Roman Civil War faction.
Belgae aren't Gaelic. Gaels inhabitted Ireland and later Scotland. They weren't expressly Gallic though either; the Belgae were counted as a seperate culture group by Caesar, and the objects found in their territories bear out that they weren't over-much like Gauls, though they were Celts. There are no Gaelic factions in EB, though there are Q-Celtic regions and speakers (northern Iberia would be Q-Celtic speaking), who would be culturally related to them.
1.Numidian Faction
2.Mauryan Empire
3.Bastarnae
4.Belgae
5.Illyrians
6.Cisalpine Faction
7.Giodilic Faction
8.Syracuse
9.Pergamon
10.Chatti
That's interesting. What I did intend my statement to mean was that I would like another faction who inhabited the area called Gaul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
My choice: (In no particular order)
1. Erainn
2. Syracuse
3. Meroe
4. Pergamom
5. Gandhara
6. Galatia
7. Illyria
8. Numidia
9. Another German faction
hmmm
-Syracuse
-Pergamon (would really love to see them in the game)
-Galatia
-Illyria
-Belgae
-some Germanics: Chatti and/or split the Sweboz maybe some in the danubian area, some more to the northwest. or add the Cimbri and Teutones as one tribe in the north
-Picts to have some enemy for the casse maybe, although I'd rather drop the casse in favour of another celtic tribe on the continent and leave the british isles to the rebels
- bosphorians
Why drop the casse though, they have 10 more faction slots in m2:tw IIRCQuote:
Originally Posted by L.C.Cinna
yes but like this there'd be more space for other faction specific models
Well, can say right off, that NO faction will be scrapped.
Some factions that will by all probability NOT make it:
- Mauryan Empire. Including only a part of a massive empire is not something we'd go for. A Mauryan satrapy though could be an idea.
- Meroe/Kush/Ethiopia. Would only be two units. Spearmen & Archers. EB is not supposed to be politically correct.
- Jewish/Maccabee faction. Would be emerging faction and would only really be in one area. More Jewish specific units though are in the works I think.
- Japan. Sorry too far off :grin: Actually any faction outside the map.
- Illyrians & Thracians. Weren't united enough.
Since the unit limit is the same is EB taking EB2 and possible factions into consideration when doing the last 150 units?
I would like to see Syracuse and Pergamon.
A question though. It is now certain that EB team is going to mod MTW2?
The faction I'd most like to see are:
1) Yuezhi as an emerging faction
They had a major influence on Backtria and India, and their arrival would create a challenging strategic situation late in the game for whatever faction dominates the east.
2) Maurean Empire
Not going to happen, but I can dream.
3) Bosporean Kingdom (or perhaps the Scyths)
Interesting mix between Hellenic culture and Steppe warfare
4) Bastarnoz or another Nothern tribe
5) Pergamon
A single province caught between superpowers ought to make for a really interesting political situation
7) The Belgae of another Gallic faction
8) Another German faction
9) An Iberian faction
To give a better representation of the political situation of the tribes. It wasn't just one tribe (or two in the case of the Gauls) against all others.
10) A Numidian kingdom
i think there should be a rebel successor state that breaks off from the selucuid empire and spilts it in two making it harder for the selucuids to expand and crush the weaker factions in the east
Rebel persians?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron of lochsunart
1. Belgae
2. Bosporean Kingdom
3. Celtiberians
4. Syracuse
5. Massilia
6. Pergamon
7. Galatians
8. Goidil
9. Spilt Sarmatians *if they could be made stronger*
10. Heh not sure, Numidians I guess
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_raso
yes persian rebels
Neither were the Germans :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Krusader
Illyrians just has to be included, and cisalpine gaul (for reasons I will come up with that will hopefully persuade EB)
Not in any particular order, but factions I'd like to see added include the following.
Starting factions:
Mauryan Empire
Belgae
Bosporan Kingdom
Pergamon/Attalids
Chatti
Numidians
Meroe/Ethiopia/Axum
Emerging factions:
Hasmonean Kingdom (or Jewish rebels)
Yuezhi
Mauretanians
Various rebel factions (Roman rebels), perhaps based on political factions (populares vs optimates)
No I think there should be hellinistic rebels, prehaps spliting the empire into an east half and a west half, with the west beining prodominantly Greek and the east using more persian troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron of lochsunart
How did Ethiopia really affect the ancient world? besides bieng a source of troops what did they do?
I don't really think they have done much to be a faction. Unless I'm wrong.
You could say the same about Saba.
i think instead of being hellinistic rebels i think it should be 'all persian' rebels and i think the empire should dig into the side of the selucuid emipre from arabia and that general direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfe
Guys, you need to consider the conditions a nation has to meet to be a faction *like if it's on the map, influence on neighbors, wealth, power, expanionist, existed a seperate, unique nations, etc*. You'll see bunch of those guys fall off the list.
Or just read Krusader's post, :thumbsup:
How about the Satrapy of Persis?(The guys who's coins are in some of the loading screens.)They were another vassal to the AS like Baktria and Parthia, and eventually they joined up with Parthia and kicked the Seleukids out of Iran. (Of course centuries later they would do the same to the Parthians when the Sassanid dynasty came to power.:laugh4: )Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron of lochsunart
My guess is they would have Persian units for cavalry but mostly Hellenized infantry.(Early on that is.)Then later using the reforms system their army would look more Sassanid or Parthian in design.:idea2:
Numidia , Meroe, or Indian faction....
Why not Hasmoneans ?
No more barbarians. I always preferre the civilized ones ~:)
Hmmm..I'd like to see the Bosporan Kingdom, a hellenized Skythian faction, a Germanic tribe to keep the Sweboz from building a vast eastern empire every time, the Belgae, the Bastarnae(they intrigue me, honestly), the Aitolian league(more chaos in Hellas! fun fun fun!), Syracuse(between a rock and a hard place...sounds fun already!), Kyrene(no more constant Carthage-Ptolie wars!), the Galatians, and a Numidian faction, simply because a desert cavalry-based faction would be interesting. That's part wish-list, part adhering to rational constraints. I wouldn't like rebel factions or emerging factions...I want 30 playable factions, not factions with shiny units I'll never use....
The Yuezhi should probably be made as a faction that emerges around 176 BC, because they had quite an impact on the east. They conquered the Baktrians and established the Kushan Empire in India. Leaving them out would be like leaving out the Mongols in a Medieval game. Plus, making an emergent faction will probably not take as much work for the EB2 team.
I also support the idea of Massalia, they were fairly influential at the time the game starts, and they could give the Gallic factions a run for their money.
A Mauryan Satrapy was also mentioned, but I don't see how this would be possible, as Seleukos gave up all of his land over the Indus in exchange for 300 elephants, and I'm pretty sure Chandragupta and his heirs didn't divide their empire into satrapies. If it is at all possible, though, I think that a Mauryan Satrapy would be a GREAT idea.
EDIT: It seems that the Mauryans divided the empire into four provinces, with the capital of the northern province being Taxila. IIRC Taxila is a city in EB, so it could be possible to have a Mauryan Satrapy/Province that centers around Taxila.
Perhaps a Kartli Faction would be nice. At the moment of the campaign it's a very unique location and situation...Not really known much by the folk around here I see though.
In Iberia (Caucasian Iberia, also called Iberia by Roman and Greek scholars) at the time of the campaign's start there would have been an interesting situation. The territory is where modern Georgia is, where the provinces Egrisi and Kartli are in EB. Iberia is interesting and different from the other (lesser) Diadochi (Successors) in that it was never included in Alexandros' empire, and had quite a distinquished evoluation. Hayasdan has access to the possibilities Iberia offers if it conquers the province, however a unique faction would be very nice! I think it's about the time that young Pharnavaz would be reigning. Eventually he would be a most important person in Georgia's history, and that of the Kartouli people. Reforms, unifications, social and civil structures and patronage in arts and scripture... Later the Pharnavazian Dynasty would cause troubles for both Armenia (Hayasdan), Pontus under Mithridates and the Senate's armies (However not much for the latter:laugh4: )
One would even have a character with a fleshed-out biography :2thumbsup:
Anyway as soon as I found out that there were a number of Caucasian and Kartli units included in 0.81 for Hayasdan, I started a Hai campaign but cheated a bit in the first year and kind of swapped to a 'Georgian' Kartli Faction. One province, the normal start-of-the-campaign-mode. Pharnavaz was already included in EB (Kudos EB-team!) I bribed the lad, appointed him Faction heir, got poor old Yervand killed and started a whole new dynasty . Awesome possibilities...
Not much faction-unique units (more than EB), interesting location (Caucasus passes plus terrible neighbours), promising Faction Leader...
VOTE KARTLI!!
Oh, I almost forgot the Galatians. No more Arverni or Aedui taking over in the middle of Anatolia!
Found this on Twcenter.net in the forum for the Ortus Romani submod of EB2:
Roman:
1)Sentvs Popvlvsqve Romanvs
2) Roman Senate
Barbarian:
3)Sweboz
4)Averni
5)Aedui
6)Casse
7)Iberia
Hellenic:
8)Arche Seleukeia
9)Baktria
10)Makedonia
11)Ptolemaioi
12)Achean League
13)Atolian League (sp)
14)Pergamum
15)Bosporus
16)Epirus
Other:
17)Sarmatia
18)Tylis
19)Illyria
20)Carthage
21)Numidia
22) Sakae
Eastern:
23)Kingdom Of Armenia
24)Kingdom Of Parthia
25)Kingdom Of Pontos
Rebels:
26) Rebels
27) Seleucid (Persian)
28) Epirot (Syracuse)
29) Cathaginian (Barca family)
30) Iberian (Celt Iberi)
This is the current list, though it is open to change
I remind you that this mod's focus is the meditteranian powers, particuarily Hellenic
The Jewish kingdom is rather difficult as it would have to be an emerging faction, which I am trying to avoid, and even as one would swiftly be swallowed by the seleucids or Ptolomatics as per game mechanics.
I am espeicaly willing to move around the barbarian factions, for example casse being replaced by a germanic faction, or the Celt Iberi replaced by the belgae ect ect. The rebel faction slots are also available for changes
What about culture groups?Does anybody know how many cultures(not factions) are allowed in MTW2?
I thought that Ortus Romani's team had completely joined with EB2.:inquisitive: In any case, I think that there are too many rebel factions, which are represented perfectly by the Eleutheroi. The Roman Senate as a separate faction is bringing back bad memories of Vanilla. As stated before by someone, Illyria wasn't united in this time period (or ever, except when a conquering empire united it).
I really think that Northern India should be represented by some faction, because it seems really.... unrealistic that you could just take "rebel" cities (important, wealthy cities at that) from the Mauryans without having the subcontinental empire retaliating with a vengeance...
Is there is a historical, realistic way to incoroprate a native Persian faction other than Parthia into EB2? Because that would probably spice things up and add some more interesting wars in the East.
I really hope it is more than 4 (North European, South European, Byzantine, and Muslim)Quote:
Originally Posted by Barigos
Why don't you just expand the map? From what I heard you have more than enough Province slots to include India.
No, actually they have one less province slot in M2TW.
It would be nice to see those factions..
Belgae
Galatia
Mauryan Empire
cisalpine gaul
Numidia
and some other german tribe.
:2thumbsup:
Ouch! Didn't know that. It would be nice if CA gave them a little more to work with in terms of more Faction and Province Slots. I guess i'll just have to numidia's then.
Damn isn't that list just about what we have now? not even a new IBERIAN faction.
They were not united! And bosphorus? I never even knew they were there own faction...I prefer an Iberian faction over them!!:furious3:
I've seen a lot of people mention Cisalpine Gaul as a faction. Was northern Italy ever united under one Celtic banner? I thought that there were just a whole bunch of Celtic tribes that migrated over the Alps.
Are there actually less MII province slots than Rome? How many less.....That could cripple an M2 EB.
The very concept of an Iberian faction is ridiculous in the way you're putting it. It'd be like saying "Asia Minor faction" which could be cultures as dissimilar as Galatia, Pontus, Pergamon, Bythinia...etc..
Iberia was not a homogeneous place. So, in theory you can portray one of the diverse tribal confederations that did exist at the time. The most important ones being the Lusitani in the West, the Arevaci in the centre and the Ilergetes in the East. There are others of course but these showed a particular sense of common-nation that others lacked.
To be completely honest, only the Arevaci (not all celtiberians), would qualify for a faction spot. They were strong and capable of mobilizing sizeable alliances against outside threats and internally they seeked to control some of the other celtiberians, garrisoning cities and such mostly at a later time (around the time of the Roman invasion).
Cisalpine Gaul was a number of tribal petty kingdoms. A few of them were kind of powerful, but the most powerful of much relevance (Insubres) were analogues of the Aedui's confederation, and the Italian Boii, who just don't seem overtly appealing, considering they were not as developed as the central European Boii. There's an Aedui province already in place in Cisalpine Gaul (for the Insubre vassals). Maybe Ligurians, but they're not Gauls.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaesarAugustus
Thats exactly what I was talking about...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasm
Sorry, not your post I was referring too, I was talking about the one on Ortus Romani. My bad.
Really! but another Ibrian faction would at least portray the number of factions there even though there was alot. You think the Numantine could be added?
I can tell you my opinion, which some members share too. An African faction would be a great way to mix around in Carthage's backdoor, and keep them busy (since right now it's pretty much their playing ground with no more sand wars to fight and Ptolemies now actually getting a challenge from the Seleukids).
If another african faction is needed why not consider Cyrene? Didn't Magas rule it independently at the start of EB's time frame? It would be great to have it as a thorn in the side of both Carthage and Egypt. Also would be a nice solution to the sand wars.
EB has to lose 1 province in m2:tw, the maps not expanding...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman25
ehh even though as an Ethiopian I would love to see an Axum faction they wouldn't be at there highest level of power till the 4th century A.D onward.
Indeed. Kyrene is one of the faction's to be considered, among others, but one of the reasons to include it will not be the sand wars. AFAIK, and in my personal experience, that doesn't happen anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Edward
I vote roman civil war factions, to keep it interesting.
and without a doubt more iberian factions. celtiberians?
and an eastern germanic faction to keep the sweboz from invading the steppes, i wish they would try to invade gaul more.
I really hate to quote myself, but I just thought of a potential solution to this. I am mod-retarded so correct me if I'm wrong, but would it not be possible to spawn large Eleutheroi armies in the corner of N. India when a faction takes a city there? That would represent the emperor of the Mauryans retaliating, so if you defeat the invaders then you have the provinces for good.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaesarAugustus
If I'm not mistaken Carthage often gets attacked by Numidian Eleutheroi at the start of the game, though I'm not sure if that is scripted or not. If it is though, then spawning a "Mauryan" army would eliminate the need for an Indian half-faction, and the game would be just a little more realistic. Like I said earlier, you cannot just expect to take rich cities from an empire that rivals the Successor states in power without a counter-attack.
If this is possible it could even be in EB 1.0, but I'm sure the team has more important things to do, just a humble suggestion.
In EB2, the Mauryan Satrapy/Province that Krusader said is possible is a much better idea, though.
Spawning an army by script is quite possible I believe.
1) Roman 'civil war' faction, since it was such an important thing in late republic history. The M2TW system probably offers more possibilities than the BI one, I think, since in M2 your generals and armies can betray you on the field rather than cities that rebel. Maybe certain traits and conditions (like selfish and maybe a new 'over-ambitious' trait, than a minimum of 25 regions or so as a condition + marian reforms) could aid in this.
2) Belgae
3) Kartli faction indeed seems reasonable.
4) Pergamon
5) Tauri (don't know much about their history though, just seen them on an ancient map)
6) Yuezhi as an appearing faction.
7) Erainn
8) Teutones?
9) Galatians
10) The Soviet Union :2thumbsup: ~;)