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Hot off the presses from the Totalwar.com site:
Hi guys,
Testing revealed a couple of issues in Update 2 that need to be ironed out. We have now submitted a new build to SEGA and it is currently undergoing further testing.
As always, we will keep you informed…
Thanks,
Mark O'Connell
(aka SenseiTW
This was posted today at 9:02am on the feature list post.
Guess this means I won't be seeing the patch this weekend. Oh well, at least they are catching the problems pre-patch.
Thanks for the heads up. Has there been any word on whether the patch will be save game compatible?
I thought this thing was due out tomorrow? "Around the 23rd" they said.
At least they are making sure the patch isn't buggy which is a good thing.
No problem Econ, glad to help.
Patience people, patience. Would you rather have a buggy patch that cause more conflicts, or one that works smoothly and fixes most/all the issues players have brought to CA/Sega's attention? What is a few more days if it improves the game play?
Id rather have not need patches so urgently and had them sooner and bug-free frankly.Quote:
Originally Posted by whodat
I have the patience of the Saint and thus far I have been amongst those who have said "Hakuna Matata" and just enjoyed the game as it is. But now its wearing thin. Just fix the damn game.
I had the patience of a saint, but then the trait bug kicked in and now I'm at zero! ~;)
As much as I hate to admit it Im starting to feel the same way as Quickening, on harder levels SP is becoming fairly annoying with the lack of AI Diplomacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickening
I don't think saints were really all that patient, to be honest. After all you get to be a saint by getting lots of important things done, don't you? Sounds pretty impatient to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by vonsch
As for the trait bug... if you mean the one where whole trait lines can just vanish because of their antitraits gaining a point, then check out my antitrait fix. It makes the whole problem go away. It's in my sig :smile:
But by getting lots of things done doesn't mean one is impatient. It simply means one would get lots of things done, and the time frame wasn't even specified :bow:
Ah, anyway, I can be as patient as Buddha but it's good to know that the patch is coming up soon enough. I might even start playing M2TW again :2thumbsup:
...though that's a slim chance of course :P
I'm happy to wait if it means that the quality of the patch will be improved.
I'm kinda bummed about the patch coming out as it means I'll have to go and re-mod the game.
The only thing left about the game I haven't fixed is the shield bug. I've got everything else set up just the way I like it.
I would be much more happier and patient if they did that tests before they release the game and I pay $50 for it...Quote:
Originally Posted by whodat
Fabiano
Well I'm sure they would have if it hadn't been for the christmas sales arriving ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by fabiano
I don't know if that's an excuse for selling a car that's missings some sparkplugs and has to use a emergency halftire because all the tires aren;t done yet. The A/C you have to wait a few months for and the seatbelts you have to go to a 3rd party to get... But sure, the car worked, mostly. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by alpaca
The analogy with the car industy doesn't work, if the car industry was like the pc gaming industry if you took the car back because of faults and went for another car, they'd all have faults!
In the pc gaming industry christmas is the most profitable time of the year so of course they had to have the game out by then.
There's 3 important dates I guess:
Christmas, fiscal year end, pre-summer.
I think all sane humans agree that the game should never have been released in the state it was. What I want to know now is exactly how long a wait to expect for this patch. Days? Weeks?
Considering they need to fix bugs and send it back for approval, another 3 weeks.
I must be insane then. M2TW was far less buggy OOB than RTW. IMO it was about on par with OOB MTW, which everyone seems to praise out the wazoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickening
*weeps*Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
With bugs like passive AI, the shield bug and the two-handed bug... I must agree, you are mental :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
M2TW has more bugs than RTW. Look at the buglist to convince yourself.
My bugs found list for RTW was much shorther than that.
That's a good point. The mind boggles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foz
On a related note, today was a personal first for me.
I'm downloading the "Silent Hunter IV" patch to burn it on CD.
I haven't bought the game yet.:dizzy2:
RTW has plenty of bugs out of the box, but baring the savegame corruption bug that struck me once, it was far more playable than M2TW was/is in my opinion.
As to the expected patch 1.2 date, I'm guessing yet another week or two. Shall we take bets on the days? I call 3/30 at 8:00 AM EST.
Eh? Patches come out before the games now? :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson
Just about. The game came out March 20. The patch came out March 22. Haven't seen the game itself in stores in Little Rock, Ark. yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Metacritic disagrees with you. When a game can score an 88 out of the box, it's clearly good enough to be released. Sure there's a bunch of stuff that we've all found out are bugs, but as people have pointed out, a great many of them are very difficult to notice when you play the game unless you know exactly what to look for. I think as a result of hunting down all these bugs, we've all drifted a bit toward the negative side of things. We're so focused on what's wrong with the game that we're missing what's right with it! All in all this is a great game even without the much-anticipated fixes of the 1.2 patch, and frankly I'm quite happy that I've had it to play and tinker with for the past few months: it's been undoubtedly far better than most other games that would've filled that time instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickening
Would I have liked to see a more polished product released? Of course - but that doesn't take away from the value of what WAS released. A 3/4 finished work by a master painter is still sublime when compared to a completed work by a novice, especially when the master is already working on finishing it for you.
I don't see much right with M2 in its vanilla state Foz. Battlemap is utterly FUBAR due to shield bug, campaign map is dull due to ridiculous diplomacy and inept AI (anyone else seen the 8 crusading armies surrounding a target but not attacking it issue?), multiplayer is horribly unbalanced due to cavalry push through issue + shield bug, and had unplayable lag in 4v4.
All three major aspects of the game have huge bugs/imbalances. While there are good things in the game, it is impossible to enjoy them with all the bad. It'd be like eating an ecalir with sour cream. The pastry and chocolate will still taste the same, but would YOU want to eat it?
Ultra disappointed with CA, but not surprised. They know most players don't even read the forum. They know most players haven't even heard of the shield bug, much less noticed it. It's us hardcore players who actually PLAY the game (rather than merely playing WITH it) who suffer. We're their most loyal customers but we're also the ones who can't enjoy games where we see massive deficiencies in it. And the sheer volume of deficiencies in M2 have killed all my enthusiasm for it, which pre-release was pretty huge.
This is not the 1st time I've felt let down by a game company(and won't be the last, I'm sure). But M2TW certainly takes the award for biggest let down; that is to say it is the worst game I've played that I actually expected to be great. I've played worse games, but I didn't expect them to be as good as I expected M2 to be. And that is very disappointing.
The "issues" thus revealed are that CA are incompetent, uncaring programmers, not to mention game makers.
Nothing but net - you know it's true.
@Foz
Couldn't agree more. Good analogy with the painting. I like it. :2thumbsup:
Yeah, bugs suck, but the game is FUN. It hasn't stopped me from playing it. Don't focus on the bugs, just have fun. It's cheap entertainment. $50/4000000000 hours of m2tw = DIRT CHEAP. Enjoy the game, CA actually gives a crap about the community and are fixing the bugs, it just takes time. Give them a break already, the patch will come when it comes. Complaining about waiting doesn't make it go any faster. If they rush, you complain because they didn't fix everything. If they take their time and fix everything, you complain it takes too long. Ease up already... don't make me bust out the whip! :whip:
Who do you think you are? Provide some solid fact and quit spewing garbage. If you don't like the game and don't like CA then go away. Everyone here is pretty much an avid total war gamer and really likes CA for the work they do. Ugh...Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyofJerusalem
CA Bashing achieves nothing and will not be tolerated.
Lets keep this on topic.
Fortunately for consumers cars are subject to certain safety standards as well as consumer standards and a manufactureres warranty. Software games are not required to meet any consumer standards and come with a near useless very limited warranty that more idemnifies the developer than guarranties the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusted
It doesn't matter what a online/magazine game review scores. Its the end user that ultimately decides its true score.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foz
I've found MTW2 a very bitter and frustrating pill to swallow that falls short of my expectations. Even without the crashes, graphics glitches, mouse/keyboard problems its very difficult not to notice the myriad number of bugs that are present in the game. Not quite gamebreaking but disappointing nevertheless.
For a driver, a ferrari without an engine certainly does not have greater value then a running car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foz
The finish of a product is a reflection of the pride of one has with their work whether novice or pro.
Unbeatable AI, new improved diplomacy, pleased with the finish of the product are words used to promote MTW 2. We were promised a day 1 patch that took a month and a day. Now I am being told that a new patch is in the making with many of the same fixes that were supposed to have been fixed in the first patch but were'nt. They took my money in November 2006 but its now mid march 2007 and still no patch. I have every reason to be angry but most of all I am appalled at the level of customer service I have received.
Great post:2thumbsup:
I think it's funny that, just because they are software company, CA beleive they can treat their customers like an annoyance, great!:beam:
I liked my 1.1 game. I liked even better my 1.1 + Foz fixes game. I hope 1.2 is even better. I got my moneys worth, Hours of fun! I still need to complete the HRI game. SadCat
It's funny how especially the self-proclaimed veterans are mourning because the patch takes so long. This was exactly the same with previous TotalWar games and if it really bothers you so much, why did you buy another Total War game? If they are not worth the money, why did you buy four of them? Why didn't you stop after one or two?:inquisitive:
And I actually enjoyed the game a lot before I read about the shield bug and two hander bug here. And yes, I started focusing on them and only then did I start to notice their effects which now make me wait for the patch. I might have never noticed them without reading about them, though a few units did surprise me with their bad performance.
Oh I cant wait to try out the patch toda...say what? Ah, cabagepatch cakes.
Well lest just hope that its minor flaws and they are easily corrected. Or in other words...I want the patch now waaaaaaah.
I worry that this update wil be all cinematic and map editor, and very little bug fixing. Last I read it was suposed to be like 650 Mb too!
Yesh, its the nawty wawty Vetys fault you can't play Medy Two any more:2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
I suppose, the vets (whom I count myself as having played TW from the start) have a right to be rather annoyed, becasue with the vets, TW would not exist, the vets are the ones whom bought STW even though it was a completley out there idea. The fact that CA seem to be completley disregarding them is a huge slap in the face, one which says much about the collective conscience of the team.
But anyway. If you wish to simply accept the lousy Customer service of CA that is of course, you're choice.
Wouldn't bad customer service be if they didn't even attempt to fix the bugs?
If you want to see bad customer service try either a large telecommunications company in the UK, or any mobile phone supplier. Or banks. Thats real "I don't give a monkey's chuff about my customers" levels of service.
:focus:
CA has done a wonderful job on this game. if it was such a bad game, how come you guys were willing to spend 50 dollars to get it.
they have your money now so they really dont care what you think.the game is completely and wonderfully balanced right out of the box. all they are trying to do now is some small finishing touches.
:laugh4:
I agree with your sentiments about it being a wonderful game but I wouldn't describe fixing the "Trinity of Evil Bugs" as "finishing touches".Quote:
Originally Posted by mad cat mech
what continually amazes me is that end users rail against an established PC Game practice. You find me a product that has come out bug free in the last 3 years.
You buy a game at release, your beta testing it for them. Pick any game you want, look at thier forums and you will find a section for user reports on issues.
Of the famous "wishlists" or "bug reporting" threads. This is how the industry has progressed, and its progressed that way mainly because consumer purchase the product as is.
Cavaet emptor, the only way to correct this process is to not purchase the game until it is at the "1.2" fix level, believe me its an economic model that drives this process not a blatant anamosity from a developer.
CA Makes fine games that with some tweeks (shield fix) out of the box you can play, a lot of companies are not like that. Additionally anyone who surmises that CA's intent is to harm the customer with late fixes or lack of testing, again dosent understand the economic model at work here.
I hope 1.2 comes out today, I dont want to wait for it. But look at it this way, modding is a direct result of the short coming of this economic model, and if companies did put out bug free games at the start you wouldnt have half the mods you have.
A silver lining can be found in most anything if one looks hard enough.
All games are released with bugs, yes. But to varying extents. About a month or two ago I bought Europa Universalis 3. Does that have bugs? Yes, but nothing near the degree of M2TW. Sure M2TW is far from the worst case of a bugged game, but it ain't the best case scenario either.
Conceded. However i have extensive history with Paradox games and thier forums, and there was a time when you could have gone to thier forums and seen literall 10 thousand (total) posts on bugs for thier games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickening
Paradox is an example of a company who has improved tremendously, but again go back 2-3 years to the old EUII or HOI and under the guise of "support" they put out multiple patches (sometimes versions a,b,c, just to quick fix a patch they just released).
Again the industry is not dicatated by suits in an office, or spectacle wearing programers in a cubical, its dictated by the consumer. Its a very simple economic model, you release a game that works and your consumer base helps you identify the problems.
Your getting paying customers to test your product, why wouldnt you do that? There is only one piece of this equation that can change the current system and that is the consumer.
Correction, it IS dictated by suits in their offices, but based on their perceptions of the consumers (usually as given to them by their marketing drones).Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin
Agree completely, the one thing we can fix is ourselves. Vote with your cash, and don't lower your standards or expectations.Quote:
Your getting paying customers to test your product, why wouldnt you do that? There is only one piece of this equation that can change the current system and that is the consumer.
BTW Quickening, I kinda figured you were going to get flamed into oblivion on this one. :grin: For the record I agree with your asssessment, this one should have stayed in the oven longer, I've gone on to playing other games until further patches come out.
:balloon2:
it Is dictated by the consumer. The laws of supply and demand are predicated on consumption as a reality not as an anticipated reality. That reality being prior sales of exsisting like product. Suits might be the ones who present the data but the market force that drives economics has and always will be consumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker
to bad he is being flamed because in an ideal market situation he is right it should have been "cooked" longer. Sadly quickening (along with the rest of us) are the problem, we bought the game before it met our expectations, that is our fault not CA'sQuote:
BTW Quickening, I kinda figured you were going to get flamed into oblivion on this one. :grin: For the record I agree with your asssessment, this one should have stayed in the oven longer, I've gone on to playing other games until further patches come out.
This is the first time I was on this forum for the release of a Total War game. I do love the series but for the next Total War installment, I'll wait and see what the people on the .org have to say about it a month or so after release before buying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin
Nothing personal man, but this cant be the 1st game you have had this issue with? This is pretty industry standard mate, pick the game at release its got some issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickening
I waited until 1.1 until i bought the game knowing that there were issues, but those issues have been addressed in mods (LTC 2.1). So yeah, watch the boards, do your due diligence as a consumer and know the product you are buying.
I have never bought or played any TW game until after the first real patch. I learned this with Shogun. I have however bought ALL the TW games and most of the expansions, because there is nothing that even comes close to this game in terms of enjoyment and time spent in single player games. :)
Now that I am officially a "vet" I know what to expect in terms of release and patches and it shocks me to see people who should have also learned this very simple fact crying like children. :oops:
In 2 or 3 years when the next TW rolls out I hope you will have woke up and can restrain yourself and wait to buy it rather then dash out and make the same stupid mistake you made with the last 2 releases. :wall:
I also look over the mods and bug fixers and try to pick and use the most basic one, i.e. the one that fixes the most bugs without fixing "personal" things, before I even play the tutorial.
:idea2:
Why don't you do these things too?
Oh and I am very excited about the coming patch!
And for the great bug fixers to follow in its wake! :laugh4:
This is the same discussion that goes on with every game these days (and that went on with MTW and RTW).
- Where's the patch
- It'll be here when it's here
- This game sucks without a patch!
- Why you'd buy it, foo
- I'm never buying another CA game until the next one!
- CA Developers exist to spite me personally
...and so on.
Not relevant and not productive (which this post is just as guilty of for commenting on it). Can we move on?
No. Ive been playing PC games since 1993 and this is certainly not the first game Ive had an issue with. However, I can't recall an issue with a game that bothered me so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin
I don't know about MTW and RTW because I only began really playing them after all the patches had been released (not intentionally, just turned out that way).
Perhaps it is just the kind of game this is that makes the issues such an irritant for me. I can put up with weird clipping bugs in FPSs. I can put up with the odd balancing issue in your standard RTS. But a game like Total War is built on it's battles and for me at least, things like the shield bug and two-handed bug really grate because they cause deep problems. I don't care about weird diplomacy, out of place sound effects or dodgy terrain etc so much. I do care about battle mechanics in a game based on battles.
Like I said this is the first Total War game where I have been active on these forums for release. I remember someone here saying "the next time a Total War game is released I will be ripping the modem out of the wall" because of the amount of complaining about the game. At the time I agreed with his sentiment and I still do to a degree. I hate seeing new topics like "this game is broken!111!!!!!11". But after three months I want the game fixed.
Someone earlier raised the issue of the game getting such high scores in reviews. I read PC Gamer UK which gave the game 94%. But as also pointed out, most of the bugs were not discovered until after a month or two. There was no chance that reviewers were going to notice them on their schedule. Would the game have scored less had they been aware of them? Absolutely, Id say.
Although I write game reviews for another forum (it's nothing serious, just for fun) and interestingly, I won't be letting the bugs influence it. Because the fact remains that even now, M2TW is immensely enjoyable to play (for me at least) and has massive potential.
This could be debated forever so just to sum up my point of view. M2TW is a fantastic game. It's my favourite in the Total War series and my favourite strategy game over all. There is nothing like it. But no way should specific bugs such as the shield bug, two-handed bug and passive AI have escaped notice before release. But I do love the work CA has done and am very, very eager/impatient to play the game as was intended.
I just read that 3DRealms wanted to make the perfect game and call it "Duke Nukem Forever" and now we all know what happens with perfect games.:oops:
The interview can be found here, I just read a summary on another site which is german though.
I based my decision to buy M2TW on my enjoyment of the series, and the experiences with the games in the past, most notably RTW. Sure RTW had bugs, but my experience was that it wasn't nearly as bad as M2TW was/is at launch. Lesson learned, I will be waiting on the next TW titles.
There are other games that I haven't bought due to developer stupidity and arrogance/fascist copy protection/dumbed down product but it does take a bit of willpower to do this. For example, everything on this list: http://www.glop.org/starforce/list.php is on my blacklist.
:balloon2:
Then you didn't find most of the RTW bugs. There were many, many very serious ones. M2TW has a few of serious ones as well, but most of those can be fixed even before the patch with tweaking. That was not the case with RTW. Surely you remember such things as suicidal generals, units getting stuck in siege towers, mass drownings on bridge battles, units getting stuck in testudo formation, protectorates draining your treasury dry, passive AI in city squares, ridiculous squalor, inability to upgrade bodyguards, AI tendency to use tons of tiny fleets, no command stars for admirals...Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
I've looked at the buglists and I've convinced myself. RTW was far worse on release.
What Aquitaine said. We had better move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquitaine
Let’s limit our discussion to 1.2 related features or concrete news about a release, shall we?
My, what an interesting series of replies and comments.
First of all, just checked the update thread on totalwar.com, no further comments from CA/Sega since the notice regarding they were fixing a new bug they found. Like I said originally, I would expect to see it sometime next week now, unless the bug they found is causing a major rewrite of codes. I am sure when they know something, they will keep us informed as to a new patch release date.
Now, I have to throw in my 2 cents. MTW2 has the potential of being a great game, but isn't there yet. It is not unplayable in it's current state, just annoying in that after I fell in love with MTW, I anticipated even more fun with MTW2. IF, and I repeat If, the major combat bugs are fixed and characters can perform as advertised, then this game stay on my shelf for a long time.
But this game's CD is not coffee coaster material. Compared to other games and sequels that came out with HUGE hype and were major disappointments (can I mention Master of Orion III and Temple of Elemental Evil - want to talk about unplayable out of the box?) this game is heads above that category.
I bought into the industry review hype and got all excited to play MTW2. I should have remembered that reviewers; don't have much time to review in depth if they are going to publish anywhere close to the game launch; will often take a KNOWN AND PROVEN publisher's info on the game at face value; seem to value eye candy too highly; often don't dive deeply into the mechanics; and rarely play a game out to the end. You can get far better reviews from a game's forum within 2 weeks of it's launch.
I have been playing computer games since I got my first Apple IIE, and was playing strategic board games for years before that. Believe me, I have seen games come out that were such dogs that there should have been a flea collar in the game box. MTW2 ain't one of them. Yeah, it would be nice to get a game that is so perfect on launch it never needs a patch. It would also be nice to have peace on earth, end world hunger, a car in every garage, and hit the lottery every week. So have a little more patience and let's all send positive vibes so the programmers get it right with this patch.
Ok, back on topic. I do have a question about the patch fix list. The list includes the following AI fixes:
I cannot tell from this whether the bolded fixes refer to attacking or defending AI. "Siege AI" seems to read like the AI that controls attacking a player-held settlement. But if that's the case, why do they call it simply "AI" and "Enemy AI" in the italicized fixes? Essentially what I want to know is... does the passive AI fix apply to attacking, defending, or both?Quote:
• AI does not deploy outside of enemy gates.
• Siege AI is not passive.
• AI now effectively assaults 2nd tier of a Fortress.
• Attacking Siege AI concentrates on taking the settlement rather than chasing down units outside the settlement.
• Enemy AI reacts to being bombarded with Trebuchets while inside a settlement.
• Siege AI now more difficult to defeat if player places missile units outside the walls.
• AI controls it units more effectively in a Citadel
• Remaining AI army now advances to use siege equipment
• AI now responds to missiles when sieging settlements
• AI responds more quickly to gates that have been opened by Spies (while sieging).
• Enemy AI effectively attacks when player's units in a settlement square
• Enemy AI now utilises spare rams
Hi folks,
first post and all. Sorry if it oversteps the mark but the debate on here has induced me to post. (I throw myself on the mods' mercy m'Lud...)
I've been playing TW games since 2003 and may I say, I've enjoyed then all (including the current one) immensely and I hope that CA keep on making games of this type for some time to come as it is not hyperbole to say that they have raised the bar for strategy games in a very real way. I have no vested interest in criticising them and the issues I relate here have application for many other games and publishers/developers.
Right, disclaimer inserted I shall proceed. That M2TW was released in essentially an unfinished state is shocking but given the industry context, hardly surprising (anyone who's played FarCry will know what I mean...). It's all about getting the product to market and because there has yet to be any sort of proper legal test case on this issue developers and publishers know that we consumers haven't a leg to stand on. They have our money, we've bought the product and now we are relying on their good faith to sort out the problems. May I say that I have no doubt that CA and Sega genuinely want to fix the game, I would imagine they are as passionate about the series as we are but the fact remains that they'll take their time, there is no imperative to sort it out, the vast majority of us will not only continue playing but will buy the next iteration unquestioningly.
In part, this is our own fault. If we as consumers sent out the message that we will not accept unfinished games by not buying them until they are properly patched then pub/devs would get the message quick smart. I've done that with M2TW, I whiled away the last few months playing Company of Heroes and Anno 1701 because I played M2TW at Christmas and found it too annoying for sustained play. I rather thought that there would have been a second patch by now but then, anybody who remembers the fiasco of the RTW 1.2 patch would no doubt smile wryly. At the moment, the wise move appears to be; give a game six months before buying (it's cheaper that way too!).
On the developer side there is a very obvious solution too: mass public betas. You don't need to look far here to find enthusiastic, technically proficient fans willing to help out in their droves. The issues that plague the game we all love could have been expunged for very little cost and far more comprehensively than with the more traditional testing model. It's win/win. Maybe I'm missing something here so if I'm being myopic or naive, please let me know!
To finish off, a little anecdote. I was playing as the Sacsanaigh against the Scots, there was a battle on the slopes down to the North Sea outside York. The weather was a typical North of England summer day - i.e. p***ing it down. I deployed my troops and pressed the battle button. I immediately pressed pause though and spent about ten minutes gawping at how Goddamn beautiful a vista CA had conjured up with a series of 1s and 0s. It was truly breath-taking. Then the charge bug kicked in.... I don't want this series to go the same way as the Aftermath, Aftershock, Afterlight series (I've stopped buying) because of silly bugs and dumb copy protection issues (one word: Starforce).
Games should ship in working order, no ifs buts or maybes. I don't care how much I like CA's work, buggy is buggy and it's not acceptable. If it's not ready, don't release. As a fan, I'm sympathetic to a delayed release date but I'm deeply annoyed by release day patches and late patches. Do it right, first time. It's the standard for every other producer of goods and services and it's about time the software industry towed the line. Ultimately though, the only thing that'll make them behave is out collective wallet...
So theoretically, after this patch there should be no more problems with any two handed units right? Or any units at all for that matter.
TinCow it refers to the ai used in sieges, so both attacking and defending.
Theoretically yes as they're fixing the bugged 2 handed axe animation, fixing cav charges and the shield bug.Quote:
So theoretically, after this patch there should be no more problems with any two handed units right? Or any units at all for that matter.
sorry to ask a question that is probabaly already covered here, but what are the actual changes in the 1.2 patch? Is the 2-hand bug fixed and has anything been done to the pike tendency of discarding the pikes and marching straight into the enemy with pikes raised?
Here is the list as it has been given
"Primary features for Update 2:
1) The Launcher
2) Fully implemented Hotseat mode
3) Cinematic Editor
4) Battle Editor (now fully functional)
Resolved Bugs/Issues:
AI
• Units do not clump together when told to complete a 180 degree turn.
• Janissary Musketeers now fire consistently.
• Enemy AI army formations in bridge battles now allow their own artillery to fire.
• Enemy cannons do not fire at unbreakable walls.
• Grouped archers out of ammo will attack enemy units in melee combat when ordered to do so.
• AI does not deploy outside of enemy gates.
• When defending an enemy settlement with multiple exits, taking your army out of the side/back door does not make it easier to defeat the enemy.
• Siege AI is not passive.
• Cavalry can now charge a spearman army.
• General's bodyguard unit now marches correctly outside castles.
• AI now effectively assaults 2nd tier of a Fortress.
• Sallying AI army now reacts properly to being assaulted from 2 sides
• Attacking Siege AI concentrates on taking the settlement rather than chasing down units outside the settlement.
• Generals are now more effective at chasing down routing units.
• Enemy AI reacts to being bombarded with Trebuchets while inside a settlement.
• Siege AI now more difficult to defeat if player places missile units outside the walls.
• AI controls it units more effectively in a Citadel
• AI artillery more decisive in its positioning
• Remaining AI army now advances to use siege equipment
• AI Cavalry can now flank a Spear Wall
• AI now responds to missiles when sieging settlements
• AI now crosses bridges to attack
• AI responds more quickly to gates that have been opened by Spies (while sieging).
• Units do not break formation when chasing routers
• Enemy AI effectively attacks when player's units in a settlement square
• Enemy AI now utilises spare rams
• Improved enemy AI response to stakes
• Shortened Siege attack timers
• Enemy AI will no-longer send out General's bodyguard on a suicide mission while defending
Diplomacy
• Improved responses to monetary offers
• Bribery attempts do not always fail after an unsuccessful first attempt
• Diplomatic 'Just Rejected' response no-longer to 'Not Interested' response to counter-offer, no matter how generous
• Aztecs now appear in the correct year (for diplomacy actions)
• Generals in a Crusade do not get inquisition
• Improved diplomacy mechanic - AI Factions now stick with alliances and/or attack 'more intelligently'
Crash
• Soft-locks in MP Lobby no-longer occur
• Host random hangs fixed
• Resolved issue with client CTD when host ends game that client is joining
• Auto-resolve Siege battle hangs fixed
• Siege tower catching fire no-longer causes random hangs
• Random hangs after loading Campaign save game
Pathfinding
• Battering Rams no-longer stuck in gates
• Ship movement area fixed
• Ram crew no-longer stuck between rams
• Northern European Castle terrain fixed to allow docking of towers
• Improved use of ladders
• Southern European Fortress wall fixed to allow docking of towers
• Improved the way units use Way-points
• Siege of Setenil slow-down tweaked
• Units no-longer become stuck on canyon walls on 'Canyon' map
• Units do not ascend/descend invisible ladders
• Units do not get stuck on Siege towers
• Cavalry pathfinding improved when sallying out from a Fortress
• Bridge battle pathfinding improved (units do not constantly reform)
• Citadel and Fortress paths fixed so that units can avoid assaulting inner walls
• Breach pathfinding tweaked
Combat
• Enemy spearmen do not charge with raised spears
• 2H axemen attack tweaked, inc. Attacking Cavalry
• Defending units can no-longer enter a siege tower as soon as it docks with the walls
Mechanics
• Mouse Cursor position now updates when scrolling with the arrow keys.
• Assassination exploit fixed.
• Mission "Reinforce Region" now functions correctly
• Attacking an enemy army from inside a sieged settlement no-longer causes the enemy to lose all built siege equipment
• Fixed two family members (brothers) with the exact same name
• Rudder event now triggers at the correct time
• When an enemy sallies and is defeated you no-longer have to wait for the timer to run out in-order to win.
• Assassin mechanics tweaked
• Mercenary recruitment tweaked
• Diplomatic Information scroll updates correctly.
• Online replays now match
• Slowdown fixed on Desert Sanctuary
• Metallic Resource now support Mines
• Cavalry charges do not fail when charging skirmishing/moving units or if a knight is out of position
• Units can now withdraw on the Eifel Mountains Battle Map
• Construction queue exploits fixed
• The carroccio standard can now fit through the gate on a sally out battle.
• Southern European > Fortress: routing Enemy AI now leaving the map
• Printing press event triggers at the correct time
• Ladder docking/undocking tweaked
• Faction standings tweaked
• Priests no-longer convert to heretics if travelling on a fleet
• Hotseat Game-mode added
• Upper limit added on how long units stay in loose formation for.
• Traits/VnV triggers tweaked
Camera
• Camera height does not drop under bridge in River Po Custom Battle map.
• Camera does not drop below water's surface in Palm Beach, Andalusia and Italian Wars map/scenarios.
• Camera does not show the underneath of a bridge when General is killed on the bridge
Controls
• Drag Deploy functionality tweaked
• RTS camera functionality tweaked
Graphics
• Princess character now greyed out upon death on Family tree
• Venice battlemap ambient building placement tweaked
• Fixed issue with trees disappearing when panning camera
• Added paths to doorways in Southern European Large City
• Added paths to doorways in Southern European City
• Fixed minor lighting issue in Southern European City
• Fixed misaligned platforms in Southern European Large Town
• Tweaked Crusade Army banner
• Fixed texture gaps and unwelded verts on Middle Eastern Huge City buildings.
• Fixed incorrect Tower Path in Mesoamerican City
• Fixed path through wall in Mesoamerican City Wall
• Fixed floating buildings above the battle map in Aztec Gold Scenario
• Fixed floating spikes in Mountain Redoubt scenario
• Added correct image for Paladin ancillary
• Fixed grey reinforcement area that states that 'This army cannot fight in night battles' even though the current battle is not a night battle.
• Added correct image for Aztec Rebel - Native Archer
• Added correct image for Aztec Spearmen
• Fixed floating torches in SE Citadel courtyard
• Garrison quarters no-longer change to Town Guard when in Construction queue
• Armoury building image in construction queue no-longer changes to an armoury
• Fixed issue with Trebuchets sometimes disappearing when zooming in close
• Fixed maps have the winter option but don’t have winter texture on the battle map
• Night attack selection tick and reinforcements do not disappear if user selects night attack option and then views enemy army details.
• Fixed officers not animating while riding
• Removed trees in the water in The Battle of Otumba.
Deployment
• Units can no-longer be deployed on inaccessible sections of wall
• Fixed deployment issues with Southern European Wooden Castle on either side of the main gate.
• Units no-longer deployable in buildings in Mesoamerican City
Collision
• Ballista collision improved
• Southern European Citadel gate collision improved
• Middle Eastern Gatehouse collision improved
• Issues with units getting pushed into areas that can't be deployed into.
Battle Editor/Cinematic Editor
• Numerous issues with both editors fixed and improved so that they can be released for public use.
UI
• Mission scroll hotkey added
• Financial Details hotkey functionality and tooltip added
• Reveal/Advance advice hotkey functionality added
• Battle Tutorial Dismiss advice functionality added
• Magnifying glass added to Disaster Strikes scroll
• Princess appears correctly on family tree
• Chat Window errors fixed
• Family Tragedy scroll triggered correctly
• Console text appearance tweaked
• Now possible to launch game from autorun launcher
• Fine Grain time control added (accessible by holding Shift and clicking + and - on battle UI)
Save/Load
• Loading saved game of the same turn no-longer allows user to keep both allies when they declare war
• Russian and Czech autosave fixed
Audio
• Movement_Embark speech now triggered correctly
• Allies breaking through gates of citadel now triggers correct speech
• Battle ending in draw when timer runs out now triggers correct speech
• Campaign Map interface sounds added
• End Turn sound now fades out nicely
• Win/Lose music is now representative of the Faction
• Enemy King killed speech now triggered
• Enemy Reinforcements arrive speech now triggered correctly
• Player Army Tired Battle Event Speech is now triggered.
• Player Army Half Gone Battle Event Speech is now triggered.
• Enemy Army Half Gone Battle Event Speech is now triggered.
• Player Under Attack Idle Battle Event Speech is now triggered.
• Player Winning Combat Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Player Losing Combat Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Leaves Fleet speech now triggered correctly.
• Player Tide Of Battle Up Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Player Tide Of Battle Down Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Muslim Enemy General Killed Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Christian Enemy General Killed Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Allied General Captured Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• The "spy infiltrated our settlement" audio/speech is now played when "Start battle" is pressed during cutscene
• Correct region music plays when loading a saved campaign game.
• Added sound trigger for planting archer stakes in ground.
• Clicked-on characters on the Campaign Map no-longer stack their audio response if clicked multiple times.
• In the Historical battles, Battle of Otumba and the Battle of Hastings the music speeds up when you attack
• Other minor audio tweaks also carried out.
Text
• Minor grammar/spelling errors fixed
Thanks,
Mark O'Connell
(aka SenseiTW)"
Lets see shall we:
So thats the 2 handed bug fixed as the 2 handed axe animation was the bugged one.Quote:
• 2H axemen attack tweaked, inc. Attacking Cavalry
No need for multiple 1.2 threads. Merged.
sorry, should have seen the existing tread. thanks for the answer!
What amuses me is the number of people in this thread telling me the game IS playable right now.
Spearmen units who are supposed to be defense 7 are actually defense 1...and that makes the battles "playable"?
Crusading armies surround their target and then stand their forever unless I (i.e. the player) does something...and that makes the campaign map "playable"?
Only if you don't need a challenge in your game is it playable. For me, enjoyment from a computer game is derived from the challenge in it, and M2TW has none right now. Hence, I consider it unplayable.
Unless I'm mistaken - no sign of the Timurid elephant artillery bug causing a CTD being addressed?
(1.1 patch does not cure it)
That list is looking good. I'm curious to see how the game plays out with the patch installed.
Actually the spearmen would have a defense of -5, assuming that the shield is 6 points. That would explain the ridiculously fast battles, and how peasants can lay the smackdown on spearmen units. :thumbsdown:Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxSexSax
(I hope I'm right about that subtraction thing, and not just pulling something out of my bum.)
Further, I'd like to know what the hell CA included in this patch to make it six hundred and fifty megs???
I think it's the editors that are most of the 600+ Megs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickening
I doubt it. In the feature list, they mention trait fixes, and if you change a few things in that file, you'll mess up the traits of an existing file. It's because of the way the engine reads that file, I think. They might fix that as well, but I really doubt it will be save game compatible.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
Yeah it's unlikely to be savegame compatible.
And as for the size: That's probably mainly media (although the cinematic editor supposedly comes in an external program, as well as the launcher tool, so they'll have a few megs, too): new videos, music tracks, pre-battle speeches, etc. - I hope ;)
that looks like the original list before sensai edited in the shield bug would be fixed line.
anyways what is the assasination exploit. i wish i knew it since my assasins could hardly kill anyone.
Open the console and type "IDDQD" then "IDKFA". Should work like a charm.Quote:
Originally Posted by mad cat mech
Maybe, but I really find that hard to believe. A launcher is usually just going to be a single, very small executable. Battle editor? That was in the exe, unless they did something else. Cinematic editor? Hmmm maybe. Hotseat should also be a part of the main exe. I guess we shall see, though I suspect that what someone else is right, that there's more videos and stuff added as content.Quote:
I think it's the editors that are most of the 600+ Megs.
/shrug
Hmm I dont see any "shield bug fixed", hope they didnt miss that one. Nah what am I ranting about, ofcourse they fixed it...right?
Yupp, it's not in the list but it's been confirmed it will be fixed.
Yeah:) Just my pre-patch jibbers. Dont mind me:)