Other Historical Battles (Ideas, Etc.)

Didn't want to start a new one for just thinking about a battle, but I've been reading about Sellasia and thought it might be a good one. Here is a sketch of it:

http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~warfare/L...6_sellasia.jpg

222 BC, in Peloponnesos
Makedonia: Antigonos Doson (king)
28,000 soldiers - two wings, cavalry in middle, good reinforcements behind

Koinon Hellenon: Kleomenes (Spartan king)
20,000 soldiers - two wings, cavalry in middle, no reinforcements but holds better ground.

There is a river in the middle (not the way you think, but vertically down the map), but it might be able to be represented by a ditch - and before the KH lines there should also be a ditch too. The ones I saw on the Bibracte battle (back behind the gauls on the hillside) would be good - ridges of earth. They could probably work for a mostly dry river bed also. Having cavalry in the middle and a divided line on both sides is very interesting too. It would be hard to win as KH, but not so bad if you are Maks.

Where you get that maps and stuff?

Can you find me one for Telamon? I wanted to do that, but give it out when didnt understand what Polybius was saying.

I just google searched it. Plus I found an article on it on jstor.org through my university. There's a wikipedia entry for telamon. But no map.

ok thanks =)

As I have a few days free, maybe I'll try it TA.
How would you like the units?

I'll try to get that down a little later, but doing some other stuff right now. I've got it mapped out on paper, but am trying to figure out what sort of units would best represent the numbers and descriptions I've seen. The biggest problem would be that the 6000 spartans in 222 were probably phalangites by that time. Can't remember when the switch happened. We'll have KH phalangites on our next release, but we might could just use regular spartans for now.

The other thing I'm thinking about is since the line was split so clearly, I was feeling like the cavalry in the middle and the spartan phalanx and light troops in front of them, that they'd be the only units controlled by the KH player, and the wing on the other hill would be captain led (AI). Maybe same for maks too. The battle is clearly split in two like that.

i'd say the right flanks of each might be the most fun. the Spartans on their hill is a great setup, and the blocks of medium and heavy infantry on the right would be a lot of fun.

I like the historical battles, and would love to see some more done, unforuneally I don't know enough about a single battle to make it.

Making an accurate location of this map with the hills, the river, the roads, and the fortifications can really be frustrating. I will admire who can do this very accurate. This is one of the hard landscapes like many ones in the Greek region.

Pharsalus is what we really need.

There were numerous battles between the Roman and the Parthians:yes: :2thumbsup:

Pharsalus is impossible in EB, I think so...

Carrhae is my next project :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Eduorius

Pharsalus is impossible in EB, I think so...

Carrhae is my next project :2thumbsup:

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Not only Carrhae, but there were battles that Trajan fought, Mark Antony, other battles that are less known.

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Originally Posted by K COSSACK

Not only Carrhae, but there were battles that Trajan fought, Mark Antony, other battles that are less known.

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Trajan is not the timeframe as well as Corbulo, but I have a lot of simpathy with Mark Antony so if you find info about that battle I will be glad to do it. I think that maybe in the life of Plutarch.

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Originally Posted by Eduorius

Trajan is not the timeframe as well as Corbulo, but I have a lot of simpathy with Mark Antony so if you find info about that battle I will be glad to do it. I think that maybe in the life of Plutarch.

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Ah! right I forgot there is no lorica degmenta:wall:

But mark antony's can be done, if i can read it in a magazine, its on the internet.:yes:

Actium, perhaps?

That would be difficult.

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Originally Posted by Constantine the Great

Actium, perhaps?

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Actium is a naval battle

What about a defense of Sparta against Pyrrhos? How hard is it to get a town in there? Without a pallisade around it, but with some ditches around it? Granted, we don't have units of women, but a few spartans and then other low level units. It would be almost impossible to defend, with Pyrrhos' army being a lot superior, but defending is always easier against RTW AI anyway.

Actually, not too hard. You can add settlements through the object menu just as I had added the wagon laagers in Bibracte.

I'd love to see a battle of Carthaginians against Iberians, or the battles of Adys and Tunis.

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

What about a defense of Sparta against Pyrrhos? How hard is it to get a town in there? Without a pallisade around it, but with some ditches around it? Granted, we don't have units of women, but a few spartans and then other low level units. It would be almost impossible to defend, with Pyrrhos' army being a lot superior, but defending is always easier against RTW AI anyway.

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I was thinking of that battle also because I think it would be the first battle in EB timeframe, but when I read the description about the Spartan defense, in Plutarch life on Pyrrhus, with wagons, trenches, etc I tought it would be hard to represent.

You know that Xanthippus may have been present during the battle? Seeing the elephants used by Pyrrhus, he learned the techniques that he would later used against Rome.

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Originally Posted by abou

Actually, not too hard. You can add settlements through the object menu just as I had added the wagon laagers in Bibracte.

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indeed shouldn't be hard.

that would be a devilishly hard battle to win, but i suppose that would just make it more challenging?

Sellasia seems a good idea, and while Phrasalus would be difficult, might there be a better (ie, more tactically troublesome, but smaller) battle elsewhere in the civil wars? You could also go back to the Social Wars for some good, smaller battles, especially in Spain.

What about the Battle of the Elephants in 275, or the siege of Babylon in ~247? Both of those could be big and fun, but lack detailed info, or a really significant tactical dimension. Sorry to be thinking out loud...what about Panion in 200? Four distinct wings between the two armies, elephants, kataphraktoi, etc.

Carrhae is ready. Not my best battle. I used some placeholders for the cavalry and the terrain is not the best.

Well is a beta but I dont want to continue working with this battle for some time. At least until I can make it a lot better with new units.

I just wanted to make a tribute to Crassus and his courageous son Publius.

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Originally Posted by paullus

what about Panion in 200? Four distinct wings between the two armies, elephants, kataphraktoi, etc.

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I was about to respond that if it includes Antiochus III, then I'll do it. I wanted to jump on this, but unfortunately Polybius's account is just him deriding Zeno's telling. If you know where I could find a direct account that would be great, but in skimming Bar-Kochva the only numbers I have are in that 10,000 of the Ptolemaic army escaped.

What about the Battle of Watling Street(Battle of Paulerspury)?

I know it's outside of EB's timeframe, but it would be good to give the Casse a historical battle(even though it was really the Iceni).

What about the Siege of Rhodes by the Seleucids?:book:

Boudiccas revolt.

I'm suprised Cannae hasn't been suggested

The battle of Idistaviso would be great.


some info

Watling Street and Boudicca's revolt are a bit too far outside of the time frame to be comfortable - but it could be possible. I'll say maybe, but they are definitely lower priority.

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Originally Posted by The Celt

What about the Siege of Rhodes by the Seleucids?:book:

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By the Seleucids? News to me, unless I just haven't come across it yet. Are you sure you aren't thinking about Demetrius of the Antigonid kingdom?

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Originally Posted by Jesus_saves

I'm suprised Cannae hasn't been suggested

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Cannae, at least in my mind, is a big no-no. The main problem is that to get it to work at all will be dependent upon heavy scripting to do anything and that really goes against my philosophy for Historical Battles. It would become far too repetitive and easy to exploit by the fact that the AI will do the same thing everytime.

Don't worry though, there will be more Hannibal battles in the works.

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Originally Posted by L.C.Cinna

The battle of Idistaviso would be great.

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Lucky you, but you're about two weeks behind. I've already called dibs on it.:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by abou

Watling Street and Boudicca's revolt are a bit too far outside of the time frame to be comfortable - but it could be possible. I'll say maybe, but they are definitely lower priority.



By the Seleucids? News to me, unless I just haven't come across it yet. Are you sure you aren't thinking about Demetrius of the Antigonid kingdom?

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Yeah thats the one! Sorry got my info wrong. I'd just like to see a siege battle to spice the list up alittle.:2thumbsup:

Folks can feel free to help out by compiling troop numbers, matching up units with unit types in EB, setting up basic descriptions, etc. We have two people actively making the battles, but there is a lot of prep work that they are doing that could be sped up if folks out there would like to see certain battles in the mod.

I think that another great battles are 60 years before the start of the game: The Alexander's Campaign!! I have tried (unsuccessfully) to create the battles of Chaeronea (338 BC Makedonia vs KH), Granicus (Makedonia vs Pontus), Issus (Makedonia vs Pahlava-Pontus), Gaugamela (Makedonia vs Pahlava-Hayasdan) and Hidaspes (Makedonia-Arche Seleukeia vs Saka-Baktria). Has anybody tried to recreate these battles? The closest approach I have reached was to recreate them in custom battle, but in the battle editor I always do terrible mistakes.

Another interesting battles could be: Syracuse siege (213 BC by Marcellus), Teotoburg Forests (9 AD Arminius vs Varus), Battle of Crannon (Lamiac War, Makedonia vs KH 322 BC), Battle of Gindaros (Anthony's Parthian Campaign 38 BC, in a battle between the forces of Publius Ventidus and Pacchorus), Battle of Heraclea 280 BC, Battle of Thapsus (46 BC), The battles of Vercellae and Acquae Sextae (Marius against the Teutons and Cimbrians). Battle of Beth Zechariah (162 BC), and in a very late time in the history the besiege of Jerusalem by the romans (70 AD).

If there is posible, two of the main battles of the roman civil war between Caesar and the Optimates: Pharsalus and Munda.

There are a large amount of battles but I can't remember in this moment

Well Greco-Baktria didn't exist until after Alexanders timeframe, he founded the cities after all. Or are you meaning using some Iranian troops from the Baktria roster?

Exactly! The greek roster for bactrian didn't exist at that moment, but the indo-iranian roster was always available! For example for the Battle of Hidaspes, the army of Porus can be somposed by Elephants, Sreni Pattya Yoddaha (Heavy Infantry), perhaps Taxilan Agema, Hindus Patiyodha, Hindus Pattisainya and Kamboja Asvaka Ksatriya. It would be good to include chariots in that army.

Agrigentum in 261 B.C.
Tunis in 255 B.C.
Faesulae in 225 B.C.
Telamon in 224 B.C.
Clastidium in 222 B.C.
Silarus in 212 B.C.
Herdonia in 212 B.C.
Numistro in 210 B.C.
Asculum in 209 B.C.
1 of Lamia in 209 B.C.
This are some battles in the 3 century B.C.

Phillippi (first and/or second) for some Roman on Roman civil war action.