Medieval 2: Kingdoms - Expansion Discussion

(Moderators: I made a new thread as this is definite info from CA with pics and trailer, so everyone will read it instead of it being page 3 on the old thead. Ive included all the info we know from the old thread as well.)

Info from the Total War newsletter.

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We are pleased to announce, after much speculation and guess work on the part of the community, the arrival of the new expansion pack for Medieval II: Total War. Kingdoms will feature four new campaigns of the epic proportions fans have come to expect in Total War games. Britannia, The Crusades, The Teutonic Wars and The Americas finish off a thrilling line up of scenarios for even the most discerning of Total War players.

A host of new features accompanies the expansion. Some 23 playable factions join the melee, including Native American and European factions. In total more than 150 new units grace the battlefield, including the deadly Greek Flamethrower.

Kingdoms also features the ability to control multiple armies, including reinforcement armies, while new historical characters and events appear, such as the rise of titanic figures like William Wallace. With many new mission types, six new multiplayer scenarios and 20 new custom battle maps, Kingdoms is a fantastic addition to Med II that will satisfy any fan of the game.

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Screenshots:

http://downloads.sega-europe.com/dow..._Americas2.jpg
http://downloads.sega-europe.com/dow...Britannia5.jpg
http://downloads.sega-europe.com/dow..._Crusades3.jpg
http://downloads.sega-europe.com/dow...g_Crusades.jpg
http://downloads.sega-europe.com/dow...g_Teutonic.jpg

Trailer:
http://downloads.sega-europe.com/dow...railer_Low.wmv

Info obtained from Gamestar magazine:

The Addon will contain 4 Campaigns, with new faction(bolded):

* Britain: With England, Wales, Scotland, Norway, Ireland.
* Crusade: Two Alliances vs. Each other: Jerusalem + Antiochia vs Egypt, Byzantines, Turks and all together vs. Mongols
* New World: Azteks, Maya, Apache,Tarasken, Chichimeken, Tlaxkalteken and Spanish Settlers under Cortez
* East Europe: With German Knights, Poland, Lithuania, Denmark, Novgorod

- Moats added around castles
- They also added "Special abilities" for the historical persons in the 4 campaigns: Richard I. can collect fleeing troups, Emperor Manuel of Byzanz can "confuse" enemy units, that they hit themself.
- The campaings have different targets and a different way of playing it. In the Eastern, the religion plays a big role (because of unrest and unit development -> u can only build teutonic knights in a catholic area) in the New world if you play the spanish have only few Units and you have to look for alliances and trading routes.
- More units on a battlefield.
- You can build Forts with water around it.... keep their position and which you also can conquer and use for urself.
- More + Different Mission Targets: A noble man apears and asks for your help in a combat. If you are successfull, your reward will depend to how you won (how many you killed).
- In the Britain Scenario you can make as enemy of England an alliance with renegate(?) english aristocrats. They ask for your help, to conquer a town. If you give them the town after the victory, they will found a new anti-english fraction "Allianz der Barone"!

Info from Wikiman:

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This is a great post but a couple of things. The modders can make a killer game, there is no doubt about that but we can add and change features which will then provide an even more expansive platform for the modders to build on. We want the modders to have new toys despite our own fears that they become competition for us. We provided the depacker, we exposed variables to config files, we helped the modders to understand the mesh file format and we even paid for one of the mod forum moderators to fly out to Australia to see how stuff works up close at the end of Med 2.

We think of it like we are providing a sandbox with a huge bunch of cool toys inside. We set up some cool scenarios in the sandbox but ultimately we know they will be pulled apart and configured a 1000 different ways into different mods. Lets put it this way, the number of new subtle features that have been added to the campaign will keep the modders busy for a long time and I am sure they are going to stretch the game way beyond where we will end with Kingdoms.

OK Heroic abilities are only available in one campaign and only 5 (pretty sure it is 5) characters will ever have a heroic ability. If you think of how many generals there are on any one campaign then this puts it in perspective.

As someone earlier said generals all didn't have equal abilities. Some were masters of the battlefield and both sides standing there facing each other knew it. We have just gone someway to represent this. This is one feature out of about 100 added to Kingdoms, I am looking forward to you guys feedback on them once the information starts to flow.

Rock on,

-wikiman

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My own personal thoughts:

It sounds very interesting. I like the idea of the different campaigns, and all the new factions we will get. Plus it looks like they are putting more work into the interfaces, and i can't wait to see the greek flamethrowers in action.

Great stuff! Thank you Lusted!

a lot of information Lusted!A very big thank you :)

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Kingdoms also features the ability to control multiple armies

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That should be cool. No more AI reinforcements in the add-on maps.

I'd get this just for the American campaign alone. Sounds very nice. Hopefully someone will be able to mod all these factions into the Grand Campaign (or some.) Ha, it's not even out and I'm already asking for a mod!

Wow, looks amazing, and the Flamethrowers are at the very end of the trailer.:2thumbsup:
Another expansion that looks like it has great new additions, especially on the graphics side of things(just watch the trailer, beautiuful fortresses with water:sweetheart: ).
Ok, for now I am looking forward to the patch, but I think that will be a very nice expansion

I do wonder whatt he patch will consist of, as if it sorts the game out finally, i might actually ahve to buy M2.

As for the expansion itself, nice one :2thumbsup:
I like the fact that it isnt JUST one new campaign, but 4 mini ones instead, should pose a lot of oppurtunities for fun! :laugh4:

Looks tasty.

I'm already thrilled about the American and Teutonic campaigns :2thumbsup:

Hmm - looks intriguing. I'm not too sure about this 'special abilities' thing (they sound a out of place, IMO), but we'll see.

Thanks for the information!

this looks sweet :yes:

For those concerned about the "Heroic Abilities" feature, it has already been stated that they will only exist in 1 of the new campaigns and even then only 5 generals will have them. They will not be common by any means.

*rubs hands together* I was thinking I might get this just for the modding tools for DL:TW, but now that I look at it... I dunno, just seeing Krak de Chevalier on that map is exciting... the mini-campaigns seem interesting.

Okay, now I've watched the trailor... OMFG!!!! I'm excited now.

Can't wait for the Eastern Europe campaign; I have a killer book on the Teutonic Order at home.

Special abilities? ~:rolleyes: Not necessary. The AI won't use it properly and it's just another tool to beat

The trailer is ridiculous; I never knew the Byzantines had invented the WW2 flamethrower. :laugh4:

Hopefully they add the tools to make new units on the battlefield. Until they do that, they aren't really helping the modding community that much.

CA is still going to get my money, so don't counterflame me. ~;p

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The trailer is ridiculous; I never knew the Byzantines had invented the WW2 flamethrower.

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As ridiculous as it may seem its true, the greeks did have a weapon like that.

Wow, this looks really nice :)

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The trailer is ridiculous; I never knew the Byzantines had invented the WW2 flamethrower.

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The Byzantines used hand-pumped flamethrowers for their Greek Fire.

Are all you guy's serious? This expansion just doesn't sound that good to me.

Will any of the mini campaign factions be playable in the Grand Campaign? If not this expansion will be crap.
But as long as at least mabye half of the new faction are playble in the Grand Campaign I will be happy.

Nice work it looks great.

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Will any of the mini campaign factions be playable in the Grand Campaign? If not this expansion will be crap.
But as long as at least mabye half of the new faction are playble in the Grand Campaign I will be happy.

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I doubt it, they will only likey be in the mini-campaigns.

And yes we are all serious.

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Originally Posted by Xehh II

Are all you guy's serious? This expansion just doesn't sound that good to me.

Will any of the mini campaign factions be playable in the Grand Campaign? If not this expansion will be crap.
But as long as at least mabye half of the new faction are playble in the Grand Campaign I will be happy.

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Eh? If everything works well then this will easily be the best expansion for a Total War game yet.

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Originally Posted by Lusted

I doubt it, they will only likey be in the mini-campaigns.

And yes we are all serious.

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What about all the new units? How many of them will be in the Grand Campaign?

Probably none if its like BI for RTW. Most of the new units are for new factions.

Just look at BI and VI, one thing CA don't do is produce half assed expansion packs. Xehh, xpacks for TW are normally new campaigns, not "heres some more units and a new faction" like say Dawn of War: Winter Assault was.

It sounds great for singleplayer. Very cautious about how a 5 faction era will work n mp, especially if they continue the trend of not enabling mirror matches. Will need a good review from mp community for CA to get my money.

Still kinda annoyed its not ____ Invasion though, always liked traditions :shame:

VI added new units, and made factions playable, I did also add a new campaign...but if this expansion is only going to add stuff to the new campaigns...ah what's the point in arguing I don't care I'll probably buy it anyway.

Believe me this is better than BI. 4 different campaigns, each focusing on a different area, with different factions and different gameplay is very good expansion.

wow, Baltic Crusades, who would have thought that

Hmmm... My reaction is mixed. Overall it looks .. promising.

The one thing that I am not too terribly pleased about are the moat implementations. I was expecting something like a drawbridge or a "fill in the moat" type piece of siege equipment to handle this, instead there's a land bridge that's always passable at one or more points. Oh well, at least it appears to serve a real function to force siegers to break through the main gates, thus providing a means of funneling and controlling entry points.

Greek flamethrower units look interesting as well. Hopefully they will have a major impact on morale like they should.

Welshmen!

What more could you ask for?

Yay for not being able to edit my posts...

I forgot to ask, is there a ballpark release date for this, yet?

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Originally Posted by Rhedd

Yay for not being able to edit my posts...

I forgot to ask, is there a ballpark release date for this, yet?

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Best not to ask that or it will be rushed out the door and we can wait merrily for patches!

Possibly one of the greatest ideas for an expansion ever. I cannot wait.

Overall I think this is a major step forward in expansion creation. I am a little sketchy about flamethrowers, but the Romans do look more interesting. I think this idea of small maps with focused conflicts is the right path to take as it has been a success in the past (STW, and VI). Besides I think it is more realistic for a final goal to be control of Britain, the baltic or the holy land, not all of europe. anyways it looks good, and I look forward to playing the Romans, and the Teutons.

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Originally Posted by Midnight

Hmm - looks intriguing. I'm not too sure about this 'special abilities' thing (they sound a out of place, IMO), but we'll see.

Thanks for the information!

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I second, I really don't want "special abilities" to affect an already great game. I also believe that they are out of place and will hinder the game, not make it better. I am glad its only in two expansions campaigns and not all of them. As far as everything else, it looks nice but I hope CA reads the forums here and fix the messes before adding more.

I am worried however, with so much added, that more bugs will be rampant and some features will be broken. I surely hope not. All in all, it does look impressive as long as its somewhat realistic (The key factor of the Total War games) and "could actually had happen in real life" as CA is known to publish and design. As much as I love the TW games, I will jump off the first stop if they add wizards/spells/build orders in a battle and campaign mode. I love this game, truly, but I surely hope they don't make it worst by adding too many ingredience to an already good entree.

Is everyone kidding on the expansion being crap. I just added a minute ago about not being into the whole "Special" ability thing but as a whole, I will buy this expansion. I mean come on, does anyone play anything else? I almost quit playing even CS with my stepson and will only play that OTHER game when he asks me. M2TW is all I play when I have free time.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

Is everyone kidding on the expansion being crap. I just added a minute ago about not being into the whole "Special" ability thing but as a whole, I will buy this expansion. I mean come on, does anyone play anything else? I almost quit playing even CS with my stepson and will only play that OTHER game when he asks me. M2TW is all I play when I have free time.

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I want to play other games but I end up thinking about M2TW whilst playing them which is a bit annoying.
I have so many games that barely get given a chance because of M2TW. Ive just ordered STALKER and I bet I'll play it for about an hour before starting a new M2TW campaign.

Looks great. I hope they don't rush the game. The idea of 4 seperate campaigns in specific moments in time is good. I can't wait to take over the British isles as Ireland or Wales! The American campaign is nice and I hope I can actually forge allainces with native tribes. I also wonder of you can also list foriegn aide. IE playing as the Kingdom of Jerusalem you can get the pope to call Crusades to help you. Or playing as the colonial Spanish requesting aid from the motherland. Also Byzantine Flamethrower = cool. Except I don't think it had that far of a range. Also I notice boats in the backround in on of the battles, landing battles?

I love the idea of the four smaller, more focused campaigns, especially the Baltic and the Crusades...

Also, this just provides the excellent modding community that much more to work with regarding units and features etc. Can't wait!

Looks great.

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I forgot to ask, is there a ballpark release date for this, yet?

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Autumn 2007 according to the official press release.

I guess we'll get it for x-mas :P

this looks frickin' awesome. i like the idea of several, smaller campaigns - it's almost like VI x4! this is way better than another stupid "invasion" pack that's already been done. a promising direction for the tw series, i think.

the teutonic knights looks wicked. i can't decide which campaign i'll play first.

also, i really like how the game was just announced and people are already bitching about it. maybe wait for it to come out? i know you like to whine and all, but holy smokes...

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Originally Posted by Katana

this looks frickin' awesome. i like the idea of several, smaller campaigns - it's almost like VI x4! this is way better than another stupid "invasion" pack that's already been done. a promising direction for the tw series, i think.

the teutonic knights looks wicked. i can't decide which campaign i'll play first.

also, i really like how the game was just announced and people are already bitching about it. maybe wait for it to come out? i know you like to whine and all, but holy smokes...

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Sadly after its released and you bought it youve already been tricked...they got your money...
The more demanding you are about a product the better service youll get...

true, i suppose. but talking about how the game sucks horribly seems a tad excessive to me when it's not, you know, actually finished.

I really REALLY want to play as the Native-Americans, looks frickin sweet. The rest of the new stuff looks pretty good to.

And the Flamethrowers, I knew the Byzantines used them on their ships at sea but on land? I didn't know they went that far...

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Originally Posted by Lusted

Autumn 2007 according to the official press release.

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Thanks!

Has anyone else noticed the different interface style for each different campaign?

A very minor, but nice touch.

This looks very promising. I wonder if it will be possible for modders to include more than one campaign in the game now? It would be nice for some of the major mods(MA and MTR) to be able to include eras.

I was blown away by RTW, and didn't think a game could get better.

Then, I was blown away, far away, by M2TW, and didn't think a game could be better.

...with this expansion, I'm speechless. Good god, with four new campaigns, I'll be playing this game for years to come! And I wonder if they'll make a second expansion like this one? I can only hope.

The Teutonic Knights are spot-on perfect. Indeed, they look lifted directly out of the Osprey history books. Actually, I have an Ignite Action Figure that looks EXACTLY like one of the Knights in the Gamespot screenie. Wow.

The new castle forts are also really cool. I just hope they are buildable in the core grand campaign.

Great job CA, I'll be the first to pre-order this one! :yes:

Hell, I was expecting just another VI, and I was still expecting to be happy, now we're getting VI, the Crusades, the Baltic Crusades, AND America!? Oh god, everything looks so great. And I hope those compact moated forts means an end to the wooden fort! (For us who have enough Florins, that is!)

I can't believe people are complaining about this expansion, why don't you go by any other standard RTS expansion and then complain? Most expansions are usually "ZOMG, WE'Z GOTZ 6 NEW UNITS, BUY NOWZ" You're getting 150 new units, 4 focused, awesome campaigns, new in game features, and more mechanisms the modders can mess with! Not to mention, that trailer was perfect in terms of presentation. M2TW reassured me that Total War will continue to be dominant in the "Epic War" genre, and this expansion sure is making me stick to that statement.

Looks interesting. I think I will reserve my opnion until I actually play it.

I am wondering though, do all the new factions just use the extra, unfilled of the 31 faction slots, or do they bring their own?

So potentially, there could be an opportunity for modders to add many, many more factions to the grand campaign. And honestly, its this possibility that excites me most at this stage.

Hee hee hee....playable Crusader states.....move over Papal States, I have a new fav faction to try out, and the Americas seem quite interesting as well, I would deffintely give the natives a try as well.

I can honestly say I will not like this expansion pack.

I refuse to buy it, with its glorious new things...and mini campaigns.... must resist....

I just cant handle a TW exp pack not having Invasion at the end.

:no: Lost my money.

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Originally Posted by Ivan_the_Terrible

I am wondering though, do all the new factions just use the extra, unfilled of the 31 faction slots, or do they bring their own?

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If I would guess I would say the campaigns are seperate and therefore either each campaign has a 31 faction slot limit or all the new campaigns(not the grand campaign) together use the 31 slots.

i saw one of the britannia pics- awesome!!!!

i would think that not all, if any, of the new factions will be featured in grand campaign. however, new factions in rebel-intensive areas like crusader states in israel and ireland in dublin and lithuania near russia would be nice

It seems either that CA has gotten better at making those videos or the animations have gone through a lot of improvement. They look far more natural and smoother than anything I've seen in M2 atm. Overall its looking like a very impessive expansion.

Interestingly enough I just caught a bit of a show in the history channel that talked about chinese weapons, including a replica of an flame thrower... It wasn't mobile but it hit a target at 60 feet. The show was "Ancient Discoveries - Chinese Warfare" if anyone wants to try and catch it on TV again

Personally i think that the Byz. Need some good units anyways. End game they sort of suck when gunpowder comes around

I wonder if any of the new features, new units or factions (not necessarilly all) will be rolled into MT2 vanilla... I am thinking of the little updates the the MTW campaign the VI added...

The moats and permant forts sound like possibilities... And the expanded missions... They could easily add in the Ireland, Walse and Norwegian factions as single province factios given that their home provinces are rebel at present (I say easily because they will have already gone to the troble of generating a flag, units colours and new units for the campaign games.

I don;t think doing this would detract from the new camapigns because i assume they will not use the full map and will be more like VI in style...

this expansion sounds very promising and might beat any of CAs older invasion single campaign expansions.

i just hope some of the features will make it into the grand campaign. because in the long run the grand campaign is what matters most to me and what i will continue to play after beating the new campaigns. i just need a huge map to conquer, lots of factions and it has to be a loooong campaign - i like to take my time (especially since rushing makes the game too easy and dull).

especially the "control all reinforcements" is a MUST for the grand campaign. it would move mtw2 battles to a higher level (at least for me) since i NEVER use AI reinforcements.

as a sidenote: have you noticed the castle in the background when the german order knights are shown?

i knew it looked kinda familiar:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Marienburg1.jpg

yep it looks like Marienburg the orders headquarter! wow!

one thing i always disliked about RTW and MTW2 are the generic cities and castles. more variations and and unique citys/castles would greatly enrich the game and stop me from always using the same tactic to attack them!

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I think this idea of small maps with focused conflicts is the right path to take as it has been a success in the past (STW, and VI). Besides I think it is more realistic for a final goal to be control of Britain, the baltic or the holy land, not all of europe.

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Definitely.


If the new campaigns include new units then it will be possible for modders to create a teutonic order faction for the main campaign using those new units i guess.

Also CA need to have *cool* stuff like cannon elephants and heroic abilities to make the game have as wide an audience as possible. As long as the games are moddable, people who like things historical can mod them out and we get the best of both worlds. CA will sell a lot of copies providing them with the money to keep improving the base game and people who like a harder more realistic game can make it for themselves out of the games toolkit underneath the vanilla game.

All good.

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Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

I wonder if any of the new features, new units or factions (not necessarilly all) will be rolled into MT2 vanilla... I am thinking of the little updates the the MTW campaign the VI added...

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the only real obvious added feature to the main campaign seems to be, to me at least, moats and the "control reinforcements" option. ideally, they'd add a few new units per faction (english and byzantine units seems like obvious choices; here's hoping they add to the rest...), optional special abilities, and maybe a few new factions (i.e. could play as the aztecs or whatever). but, honestly, 4 (!!!) new campaigns is enough to get me excited.

i would surely hope they will add some new factions and units to the grand campaign.

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Originally Posted by mad cat mech

i would surely hope they will add some new factions and units to the grand campaign.

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No real need for that. It will be a simple task to add them manually from the expansion campaigns to the main campaign. I'm sure some modders will do it, if not, there are some excellent guides in the mod forums.

Might require a few extra provinces in the main game too..

That clip was very juicy. It actually was able to whip me up a bit! Then again it's a trailer kind of,.... we'll see how it turns out when it's there *skeptic*

No Inca, the largest empire in america?

or Mapuche, who reisted over 300 years to the spaniard invasion and defeated them in the end?

Anyone know what the map for Britain will look like -- number of provinces, etc? I was encouraged to see the number of provinces in the mini-maps in the screenshots for the Crusader and Eastern Europe campaigns, and I'm hoping it will be similar with Britain -- around as many provinces as are in VI, or more. All I've seen are those screenshots posted on the first page of this thread (can't watch the trailer), so I'm wondering if anyone has any idea on more specifics of the Britain campaign -- the one I'm looking forward to the most.

Psyched for this expansion. I can't wait until autumn!

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Originally Posted by CountMRVHS

I'm wondering if anyone has any idea on more specifics of the Britain campaign

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Is this helpful?

They can't even fix the basic aspects of the game and they are already scavanging for more money with an expansion?

:wall:

There's nothing to fix in this game, only added.
Don't fix what ain't broken.
in fact I find patches mostly worsen the game.

Maybe you guys wanna try uninstalling third parties and defragmenting your hard drive before installing a game?

Hmmm, I guess they liked the idea of localized campaigns with minimal factions that I did with crusades....

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Originally Posted by King Jeron

There's nothing to fix in this game, only added.
Don't fix what ain't broken.
in fact I find patches mostly worsen the game.

Maybe you guys wanna try uninstalling third parties and defragmenting your hard drive before installing a game?

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Shield bug.

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Originally Posted by King Jeron

There's nothing to fix in this game, only added.

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:smash: Well... there is. Quite a lot actually.

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Originally Posted by King Jeron

in fact I find patches mostly worsen the game.

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Ive seen a mere handful of examples of this in the last fourteen years. By and large, patches make games better.

Well I don't understand 'cause I really don't have bugs in this game. Maybe smaller ones I overlooked or something, but if I read about certain bugs on this forum I just haven't experienced them, I play this game since release.

I never heard of the 'shield bug' and I can't think of anything -related to shields- I have trouble with. But one thing I do know, the basis aspects of this game our flawless. It runs smooth and does exactly everything I expect it to do, and how the devs promised us it will do.

Offcourse, I known expansion that bring new bugs to a game, if that's the case here I'll have no other choice but to patch it. But all previous expansions of total war series were good.

I guess it just differs from individual to individual, it's exaclty why a PC is called a 'personal' computer. ;)

The only (recent) games I know that really do need patches are games like Neverwinter Nights 2, Gothic 3 and X3 reunion.

wow.
i dont need an American expansion anymore!

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Originally Posted by King Jeron

Well I don't understand 'cause I really don't have bugs in this game. Maybe smaller ones I overlooked or something, but if I read about certain bugs on this forum I just haven't experienced them, I play this game since release.

I never heard of the 'shield bug' and I can't think of anything -related to shields- I have trouble with. But one thing I do know, the basis aspects of this game our flawless. It runs smooth and does exactly everything I expect it to do, and how the devs promised us it will do.

Offcourse, I known expansion that bring new bugs to a game, if that's the case here I'll have no other choice but to patch it. But all previous expansions of total war series were good.

I guess it just differs from individual to individual, it's exaclty why a PC is called a 'personal' computer. ;)

The only (recent) games I know that really do need patches are games like Neverwinter Nights 2, Gothic 3 and X3 reunion.

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No we are all, pretty certain that the shield bug exists in every unit. As do countless others.

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Originally Posted by King Jeron

I never heard of the 'shield bug' and I can't think of anything -related to shields- I have trouble with.

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It's an absolutely devastating bug, on par with the two-hand weapon bug. Learn about it here

Well then If you think patches are bad, don't use them. It is a personal choice, download whatever you want. For the rest of us... is the patch here yet :laugh4: . You know what they say, ignorance is bliss:2thumbsup:

This looks terrible for people who complain of the game being too short, 4 more campaigns of RTW:Alexander length? also, I agree with being hesitant about heros with "special abilities"as cool as Prince Arthas is I don't play WC3 for a reason.

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Originally Posted by King Jeron

There's nothing to fix in this game, only added.
Don't fix what ain't broken.
in fact I find patches mostly worsen the game.

Maybe you guys wanna try uninstalling third parties and defragmenting your hard drive before installing a game?

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You can't be serious...nothing wrong with the game?


Wow..

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Originally Posted by Hoplite7

stuff

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Don't let it bother you. I have made a bit of an amusing pasttime to try and spot the paid shills from hardcore fanboys. :grin:

I would like to echo some sentiments that others have made in this thread as well. It would be most unfortunate if CA did not include many (if not all, barring the Super Saiyan mega-powerups) of the new features in the main campaign of the original game. In fact what'd be even better is two flavors of the main campaign, "classic" and "expansion" which respectively do and do not include the new options.

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Originally Posted by Stuperman

This looks terrible for people who complain of the game being too short, 4 more campaigns of RTW:Alexander length? also, I agree with being hesitant about heros with "special abilities"as cool as Prince Arthas is I don't play WC3 for a reason.

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That was my initial reaction too... I'd rather have a RTW/BI style expansion that expanded on the overall long campaign. On the other hand, if they're really putting some effort into atmospherics with those mini-campaigns -- individualized voice acting, new graphics on the static info panels, etc. -- then it might be worthwhile. I just hope the Crusader allies campaign can be played from the Muslim side too, and not just the Christian factions.

My pet peeve remains that the Apaches were chosen to spice up the Americas campaign, instead of the more historically accurate first-contact factions the early European colonizers actually had to face (Apalachee and Calusa in Florida, the real Carib Indians, etc.). Choosing the Apaches is the Holywood version of history.