Critisize the Education System (in your country)

Well... I don't know how it's like in other countries, but here in Holland... PEH!

The college I'm going to is really a bad one. From the first year on some years ago the situation of our department wasn't so good: bad teaching, bad lessons, bad guidance, bad or not enough equipment, and so forth. You know what a teacher's argument was when we complained and critisized? Said that the ones before us - the olderyears - had it a lot tougher. So my question is: what the hell does that have to do with us? It doesn't change the situation, nor was it a valid argument or explanation.... well, let's just say it didn't help us to know that they had it worse. It's no excuse for the department to still be in ruins.

*stands dramatically* That first situation marked a bad doom. A downfall of greatness! *dramatic* :no:

And it appeared so beautiful at first that school, but it was mere deception as usual. Like propaganda, to influence the human mind, to trick it into thinking it was the place to be. Nice talk and images as if selling a product. It's just that it was so tempting and it looked like it was a good institution. Bastards.


So - to cut more to the chase quickly - lately I've been having some trouble with my main teacher/coordinator (again). Many a time there's been that he and other teachers hardly responded to your pleas for help and advice, but especially him. Says we as students gotta do this **** well and take initiatives.

Well, what if it's the case that we did so? What if we hardly or not at all receive proper responses, etc.? He says he's always busy and has no time. For example I contacted the schmuck but I received the response that he was busy with a project and didn't have time - I just had to wait a couple of weeks and contact next month. Bastard.

So... at some point I contact him, and what do I get? Nothing. So later I sent a message with a slightly sarcastic nature to it, but truthful. It was nothing personal, I was merely stating a fact and requesting to make an appointment FINALLY.

I get the response that appointments are to be arranged with another employee and that this was the case for YEARS. BULL****. He always told us that if we needed help, had to contact him, whatever etc., we could do so personally and arrange something. Then I read that this is not possible and has to be done with the other employee.
So I responded basically sayin' something like "Even if it's a personal appointment we have to do that? I recall you told me to contact you if we had to, and I have done that. The least you could do is to respond instead of leaving me in the dark."

It is simple and to the point, and factual. Nothing personal.

But... whaddaya know? A-hole feels insulted. He doesn't like the "tone" he's reading, even if there's no tone to be read in these letters. Even if there was, the facts still stand. Bastard.

Things like these just get the worst out of me. We know that school hasn't been that good, and we know we get bad treatment and we are always being demotivated. You know what I want? I want justice. What is justice in this context? It is that they'll have to PAY.

I'm curious as to what you would suggest to get this justice I speak of. Basically my time has been wasted: I don't even WANT to do music anymore because of this damn piece of **** building... even if I have so much talent.

They gave us promises that the system would change for the better, but to us olderyears it's of no use: we were ****** up already. I've been even paying college money and not receiving lessons. Damn this **** to hell! I will have justice, and I will have vengeance, dammit!

I've heard that many a school in this country ain't good. People complaining about bad colleges and such. Well, I say it's time to kick them in the ass. Unacceptable. Just unacceptable.
And people who got such talent for whatever they're doing/following are being drained for nothing, but paying money so they can profit. They squeeze you out like a damn lemon until they can't squeeze no more. And those talented people will just be lowered in quality, in skill, etc., if an education system isn't good.

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There's a lot more to my story, but it's long enough already.

NEA
:thumbsdown:

Y shud I du dat?

Well, my third year of my electronics education was simply horrible. If it wasn't for one teacher who had us 15-20 hours that YEAR(on antennas), I wouldn't have learned a single thing. I quit halfway, and got drunk instead. A good choice.

A typical day at school after the first month or two was something like this:

08:30: start
09:30: I get to school
about 10-10:30: The TEACHER arrives in class, after me when I got there an hour late.
10:00-11:00: the teacher sits at the front and surfs the web, handing out an exercise if we were lucky
11-12:00: Lunchtime, the teacher usually goes home
12-15:30: if I didn't drive home in the lunch hour, I sit in the classroom and play computer games with the rest of the class until the end of the day.

What surprised me the most during that year, was that I was the only one complaining. The others were more than happy to waste a year playing computer games from 8 in the morning to 4 in the afternoon.

Oh, I guess I should be fair, I did learn how to play counterstrike and warcraft 3 that year. I would have learned WoW too, but I quit when it arrived...

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Originally Posted by Gregoshi

Y shud I du dat?

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Y do yoo h8 sensashunul spelling?

And Bijo, what school? What hell-hole is that?

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Originally Posted by drone

NEA
:thumbsdown:

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That sums it up pretty well.

Fine by me.

I just don't get why they bother with teaching foreign languages. They also need to stop with the ridiculous standardized tests that don't actually test how well you've been educated.

Well, knowing any other language than English in addition to your native tongue isn't as important anymore. As a matter of fact, we're have a debate here in Norway atm about this. They're all screaming that you "can't go anywhere without knowing languages!". But seriously, half the world can speak english now, and that is ONLY going to increase. There is little point in knowing other languages, really. Sure, some jobs will require it, but they are the exception, not the rule.

In any case, it is far better to speak good english and no other languages, than it is to speak bad english and bad french, for example.

Exactly. Most people take a couple years of french and forget most of it, and then there english isn't even that good.

My kids are learning good English, if it's the only thing they learn. If the country is flooded by 2030 and Al Gore comes to the rescue in a solar-powered tug-boat they can worship Mother Earth and Father Rainbow together.
:flowers:

Je m'appelle Erik, je habite Mjøndalen. Cheri Vache.

About all I remember from 3 years of french. And it's probably wrong. I would have a MUCH greater return from focusing on english in those years.

I'm writing in english to frenchmen right now...No need for that french.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Exactly. Most people take a couple years of french and forget most of it, and then there english isn't even that good.

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Around here there are legions of Spanish students.

It has something to do with many people here being Mexican descent, I suppose; and because "everyone" takes Spanish so everyone really does; then friends bring friends so they could be the same class, and...

Meh. The whole foreign language/arts requirement is just icing. Making it "multicultural" or "inter-disciplinary" or whatever corporate word they like to use. I suppose I could blame colleges for asking for them as the requirement for whatever reason.

I'm quite unlucky to live in a not-very-good-and-very-very-big school district with priorities that clearly disadvantage me. All they care about is for every idiot to pass an utterly easy standardized test to fulfill the whole No Child Left Behind "let's grade schools too!" deal and nothing else -- except not to be sued, which means timid education. Not cool. Though I suppose a "good" school district is one where parents are nuts about their children's grades and lash out at every less-than-A results the child returns home with, which is also really not cool.

As for an average student's grasp of written English; I do take an opportunity to gloat and be all arrogant over the issue that apparently me, an immigrant with three or so years in an English-speaking country, can write and read way above average. Naturally enough, a slightly less assery side of me finds that disturbing.

i r0x lols u txt me 2

[/rant]

In the US, the standarized testing is a joke. The No Child Left Behind act made it even worse than before so now in school we have to take these ridiculously easy tests that unfortunately take forever to do and are extremely boring.

To me, the SATs in general are a joke. I can get guaranteed 800 in math every time I take it and fail to see how I can be scoring higher than 98th percentile with such an easy test... Reading and writing aren't exactly the hardest either and I can easily get high 700s in them even with English being my second language.

For me it was that the english aid course I took in grade 10 only tried to teach you reading skills and not formal writing skills. I couldn't then, and can't now, write an essay. It's what made me discount ever going to a university.

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Originally Posted by Xdeathfire

In the US, the standarized testing is a joke. The No Child Left Behind act made it even worse than before so now in school we have to take these ridiculously easy tests that unfortunately take forever to do and are extremely boring.

To me, the SATs in general are a joke. I can get guaranteed 800 in math every time I take it and fail to see how I can be scoring higher than 98th percentile with such an easy test... Reading and writing aren't exactly the hardest either and I can easily get high 700s in them even with English being my second language.

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You have NO idea how right you are.

A short background, my wife is a 3rd grade teacher in a year 'round school in North Carolina, and her mom teaches 5th grade near Gary, Indiana (heh) and her dad teaches high school classes near Chicago.

For starters, the No Child Left Behind is a farce and a blight on the school systems. It never fails that Mrs. Whacker has several children in her class each year that can barely speak english (ESL students) as well as several who are several grades below what they should be for their learning levels. As such she has to take this into account when preparing and giving lessons as they're given to the class as a whole. The point isn't that these children don't deserve attention, they certainly do, they should be getting it in special needs classes and means to better accomodate them. Of course people often scream discrimination and other tripe whenever these types of methods are proposed, when it reality it's a lose-lose situation overall when they're forced into the typical classroom. The fact of the matter is there's always going to be the slower kids, the 'normal' kids, and the gifted kids. It's not really that hard and unrealistic, if we put the time and resources into it, to make the education system work much better and be able to support these kids and their needs. It's not about discriminating, it's about matching the right programs to the right kids that best fit their particular situation and can help them.

As for standardized testing, there really isn't any other way to assess kids in a systematic, least-subjective-as-possible manner. The reason it's a joke right now is because of how low we keep our own national and state standards for learning. Compare your average American child's learning at 8th grade vs a Japanese child's education at the same grade level, it's nuts. The only way we can get around this as a nation and culture is to set the bar higher, the whole "it's cool to be stupid" deal has been going on for far too long, and look where it's getting us. :dunce: :freak:

They measure the amount of fries in my school. :shame:

I work part time as English Tutor at UCLA, and I feel compelled to kick people in the head once and awhile. They take these ridiculously easy SAT tests, get into College, and Find out that English 101 or Lit. are too hard. I'm sorry, but if you're in college you should know what an adverb is.

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Originally Posted by Wakizashi

I work part time as English Tutor at UCLA, and I feel compelled to kick people in the head once and awhile. They take these ridiculously easy SAT tests, get into College, and Find out that English 101 or Lit. are too hard. I'm sorry, but if you're in college you should know what an adverb is.

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Ah very good! It's great that extreme masochists enjoy playing the TW games. Tell me, how often do you get the urge to slit your wrists when you see college level kids submit papers taht r spelt like this and dont have proper punctuashun and speling n stuff like that?? like fo real kan u beleev it!!!

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Y do yoo h8 sensashunul spelling?

And Bijo, what school? What hell-hole is that?

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Conservatory. Not even international bankers are that crooked. Grr, I pit' the foo'! One significant problem was for example that some of our teachers had lots of knowledge and field experience BUT didn't know how to teach, and what kind of material we should be taught.

In the first year this one teacher always gave us ****** assignments, boring, annoying, useless, old-fashioned, obsolete. He really enjoyed giving such assignments, even ones requiring TORTURE.

By that I mean we had to arrange-- "musical pieces" from a certain old... "artist". They knew me for my quick fast efficiency and talent and music with my unique signature on it always, and even did I make it so that my music could internally hit even the most tough cold-ass son of a *****.

But THIS music from the womanly artist known for her... "superb" Superman song or something, was DEADLY. Nay(!): if my music could be deadly already if I wanted to, her pieces were a gift from hell... hell which would've experienced an ice-cold day when her music was played... her music could maim, damage, kill, freeze, unfreeze, maim again, and kill again.

His policy was that whatever we were thrown at we had to do it, because a teacher said so. It didn't matter if it was ****, we just had to do it. Well, they can might as well just give me my ******* paper already.

The education system in North America is a joke.

Primary, middle, and high schools are vile soapboxes for indoctrinating kids with pro-evolution and pro-"gay" propaganda.

Post secondary institutions do the same thing, only to a larger degree and with an added spectrum of propagating an overall secular humanism agenda.

Nothing good about an "education" system like that at all since it only propagates garbage rather than educates.

Aw the old complaints about the SAT and ACT. Its not hard to get a decent score to get into college on either test. The trick to college is not the amount of knowledge you have going in, but the study habits that you developed in school. Which for the most part is lacking because of the lack of concern of the student, the parent, and the teacher.

SAT and ACT only determine a base level of knowledge that should allow you to begin your higher education. Thinking that the test allows you to have the base knowledge to be successful in college is the failure of the system and the testing in public schools to the standardized test.

Hell the main problem with the education system in the United States is that we refuse to acknowledge that the standardized testing is a failure in predicting the future education achievements of the student.

My education system is fine...
We revel in the glory that it is better than the rest of the UK...
The only bad bits are when the meddling Glorious Executive and the even peskier Education Department of Dundee city Council tries to fiddle with the organisation and practises in schools...

I thoroughly enjoy learning about 2nd order differential equations and the polarisation of light and it's even better when i gets to brew alcohol in Chemistry...

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Primary, middle, and high schools are vile soapboxes for indoctrinating kids with pro-evolution

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Uhm...Why on earth would is it a bad thing to teach kids/students contemporary science? Would you rather teach them fairy tales?

The other thing that bothers me about the education system these days is that until you reach high school you can't fail. Our version of no child left behind. It's why you have functionally illiterates graduating high school. If they can even hack it in high school. As they won't be hand held any more.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Uhm...Why on earth would is it a bad thing to teach kids/students contemporary science? Would you rather teach them fairy tales?

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Of course. A generation of contented brainwashed idiots would be nice and easy to control. You'd still need to give the top few percent a proper education though.

Then you can change the national anthemn to "Brave New World".

:flowers:

One gets what they pay for - increase the incentive ($$$) for becoming a teacher, and one increases the probability that those capable of actually teaching will consider the profession.

As is it remains, 'Those that can, do. those that can't teach.':balloon2:

IMHO, the main reason why the bar is set so low in the US is that if there is a mandatory federal requirement for graduation, there will certainley be a percent of people that wont make pass it and those who won't graduate will probably in a minority due to financial and enviornmental problems.

Once people see how a disproportionate number of minorities of not graduating, they will scream discrimination and then heads will start to roll... So instead of trying to make the system better, politicians just set the bar lower and lower trying to make it seem as if the nation's children are getting smarter

The single worst aspect of our mandatory school system has to be the "everyone's equal" way of thinking. It makes it all but impossible to put talented kids in their own groups. We can't make the normal ones (or the slow learners) feel bad by calling attention to someone else, sorry. The top of the crop get to sit through the same boring lessons as everyone else and answer questions they could have handled last year.

Why is this bad? You get bad study habits if there's no challenge in school, and then you lack the discipline to actually get through a serious institute of learning. :furious3:

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Originally Posted by Spetulhu

The single worst aspect of our mandatory school system has to be the "everyone's equal" way of thinking. It makes it all but impossible to put talented kids in their own groups. We can't make the normal ones (or the slow learners) feel bad by calling attention to someone else, sorry. The top of the crop get to sit through the same boring lessons as everyone else and answer questions they could have handled last year.

Why is this bad? You get bad study habits if there's no challenge in school, and then you lack the discipline to actually get through a serious institute of learning. :furious3:

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You hit the nail on the head. At least... I mean to say that I've had this same problem here in Holland in every education institution I've been: perfect discipline and all-purpose talent that gets bogged down by being put into a class or level that's below you. It's like they try to standardize people or something: the normal ones are already in the middle, the slow/dumb ones are to be heightened, and the really good ones are to be lowered. It encourages slower learners, and discourages fast learners.

And then to add to this... in this country, if you're not a white-Dutch person but you are really smart/fast and you get lowered, it'll hit you harder.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Uhm...Why on earth would is it a bad thing to teach kids/students contemporary science? Would you rather teach them fairy tales?

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Because it's not contempory science they are being taught. There is much Intelligent Design contemporary science but that is never taught hence they are being brainwashed to be biased to evolution propaganda. What they are being taught now already is the fairy tales.

Not enough beer & smoke breaks. Too much homework, school day starts too early, runs too late. Holiday time too short, lousy pay, curriculum too boring, oppressive discipline, too much structure not enough creativity and entertainment. We can't wait till our miserable school days are behind us, and we are free from the clutches of the thought police....how does one explain that it actually gets worse...~;)

Well, as far as the math classes go, a step in the right direction has been taken in my country. but only within a limited area. In high school everyone now have to take math for 2 years, compared to how it was before with 1 obligatory year and then the choice to continue for 2 more years. Also now there are to types of math you can take: Theoretical math (for those who are good at it) and Practical math (for those who are crap), thos who take theoretical math can also choose to take more lessons in 2nd grade and can also have math in 3rd grade. This seems to work so far. But a lot of the other education is... more crap. English classes just end up in everyone speaking Norwegian, many think social science is redundant, many skip foreign language classes (understandable, because there are some who are there because they want to and would like to learn a bit of the language and some who are there only because they have to), natural sciences is ridiculously hard at times and many teachers have problems explaining what it is we are doing, Gymnastics is usually just chaotic and it seems the requirements for getting a high grade is lower for girls than for boys, a lot lower mind you. Anyway a lot of this is just discipline issues, and its not that bad, at least not for me... I seem to have a good ability for learning. But I think one of the things the schools should not have attempted to have done was to go digital. It worked fine with just handing in your paper, either printed out from your computer or handwritten. But now we have to save it in a special database in the school's "stable" network, and it is expected that we regularily check the internet for homework assignments and schedules. Actually on paper many this idea of "digitale folders" (as they call it) sounds good, but I have witnessed that it ends up in chaos.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

My kids are learning good English, if it's the only thing they learn.

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I always thought you were too learned and sophisticated to have kids... me like learn something new every other day like.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

I always thought you were too learned and sophisticated to have kids... me like learn something new every other day like.

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Someone has to raise the snotty kids :laugh4:

sorry Adrain...I mean no insult

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Because it's not contempory science they are being taught. There is much Intelligent Design contemporary science but that is never taught hence they are being brainwashed to be biased to evolution propaganda. What they are being taught now already is the fairy tales.

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"intelligent Design" is a joke. 'Nuff said. And it doesn't exclude evolution at all.