Latest update on 1.2 patch from Sega/CA

Rather than tag this on the end of 38 pages, here is the latest official info from the .com forum:

SenseiTW Medieval II Update 2 - Latest News Lead [-]

Administrator/Administrator
Posts: 222
04/12/07 05:39:17
CA Staff
Tags : None
Hi guys,

We have had a chat with the development team at CA Oz and can now bring you an update regarding the status of Update 2. As previously discussed, there were issues highlighted by final testing that require further attention. The issues have been identified and the process to rectify them is underway at CA Oz. Rest assured that all resources are now being devoted to this as a matter of priority.

The main issue to be addressed is the intermittent passive AI that occurs during siege battles. While this certainly isn't something that occurs in every battle, it needs to be rectified before final release. There are also a number of minor issues that have also been highlighted and will be addressed.

Please accept our sincere apologies for not providing information on progress before now. Being on the other side of the world from our development studio meant that we couldn't bring you up to date on this as soon as we'd like. Based on the rather unfortunate turn of events last week, we feel it would be unwise to provide any further estimation of release dates for Update 2. However, we promise to keep you informed on progress throughout the process of getting this update to you.

Thanks for your ongoing patience. The team are obviously very busy on this, but I will keep pestering them for updates on your behalf!

Cheers,
Mark O'Connell
(aka SenseiTW)

Im very happy at their vow to fix the passive siege AI completely. Definately top priority.

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Originally Posted by whodat

Based on the rather unfortunate turn of events last week, we feel it would be unwise to provide any further estimation of release dates for Update 2. However, we promise to keep you informed on progress throughout the process of getting this update to you.

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Aah! A bit of common sense from CA, at last!

The deadline given for release of the patch always sounded as though it was driven by the marketing team to keep an impatient community happy, rather than by the guys building the damn thing.

Whilst I would love to have the update tomorrow, I'd rather have a properly working update in a few weeks' time. Letting the developers run the schedule means it will take longer but it should do what it's supposed to.....

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Im very happy at their vow to fix the passive siege AI completely. Definately top priority.

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I agree - I've experienced the bug only once (with the unofficial 1.2 patch, ironically). I sallied to avoid excommunication, but really was bringing in a massive relief army. The French besiegers just stood with their backs to my relief army as I shot them to death. They did send one or two archers to duel me. But otherwise the AI only reacted when I got tired and charged it from behind. It was very strange and definitely worth fixing.

Both encouraging and disappointing. Well, hopefully it'll be an excellent patch when it arrives.

Yep, I have to agree. I would MUCH rather CA fix the passive AI seige bug that popped up, along with the CTD issue that people have reported, than give us a bad patch.

From what I have seen from the unofficial patch so far, I love it. Agents that actually work, imagine that.

And kudos to CA/Sega for not stepping on their sword again with an announced release date. Take the time to get it right, then let us have it.

"It'll be ready when it's working properly" is a sensible policy! Good to hear things are working this way now.

edit in response to Pode, below: I'm hoping that's how it'll be from now on, as well!

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Originally Posted by Midnight

"It'll be ready when it's working properly" is a sensible policy! Good to hear things are working this way now.

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INFINITELY better would be a policy of "It'll be RELEASED when it's working properly." I know, I know, foolish idealism on my part, but really, would it have killed Sega to push for a release THIS Christmas instead of last?

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Originally Posted by whodat

Being on the other side of the world from our development studio meant that we couldn't bring you up to date on this as soon as we'd like.

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Not to be nitpicky, but why is this even an issue anymore in today's day and age?

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Not to be nitpicky, but why is this even an issue anymore in today's day and age?

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Because it's easier to talk about something over the phone when your both in the respective offices, instead of by email.

I think the problem was that they said it'll come so soon and in the end came quite a while after.... I belive its better to say that it will come in a lot of time and bring it before tje deadline instead of telling it will come fast and bringing it after.

I thought the real issue was the 1.1 conflict.. the passive AI was supposed to be fixed with last patch and didn't postpone it from bein' pushed out to the public?

I for one am glad that the passive AI will be fixed. I can be patient.

I am fine with the m letting us know about when patches are coming out but with all the bugs we have had to deal with why don't they stop releasing half baked games so we don't have to deal with this all the time.

(This notice also should goto NWN2, Oblivion, and Railroads!)

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Originally Posted by Lusted

Because it's easier to talk about something over the phone when your both in the respective offices, instead of by email.

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Email?? Yeah, I'd say that's inefficient. That's why nobody I know uses it to do business.

I'm an off-site game developer, and we work over IM. Waiting for email replies would be insane.

I'm perfectly happy playing the unofficial patch while waiting the eternal wait, but Smith's confusion is valid.

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Originally Posted by Rhedd

Email?? Yeah, I'd say that's inefficient. That's why nobody I know uses it to do business.

I'm an off-site game developer, and we work over IM. Waiting for email replies would be insane.

I'm perfectly happy playing the unofficial patch while waiting the eternal wait, but Smith's confusion is valid.

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Ditto.

I currently am doing intern work for a coal sales company that does millions of dollars in business every month. I work in PA, and there main office is in VA, and the salesmen are all over the country. We have no problem communicating with them, either through phone, email, IM, conference call, etc. I fail to see how distance is any excuse for delays in business today.

But, all of that aside, I love the game and I don't care if I have to wait for the patch. I just thought it was kind of silly to partially blame a delay on office distance.

Because their in diffrent Time zones, about the time where getting up, they're going to bed, they simply aren't in the offices at eithier end at the same for much of the day so they have to rely on e-mail for everything, and considering the complexity of the issues their dealing with it would be murder to try to do everything by e-mail. SO they're very limited in time wise.

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Originally Posted by Agent Smith

Not to be nitpicky, but why is this even an issue anymore in today's day and age?

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There is a tremendous time difference between Australia and the US or England. When it is 7am in Sydney on a Monday, its 10pm in London on Sunday, 5pm in New York on Sunday. :shocked2:

I used to live in New Zealand (having been raised in the US) and always had problems if I wanted to phone someone in the US right away. Email sometimes just doesn't cut it.

Yet ANOTHER delay.

"As promised, here is an update regarding Update 2. It is due to go into final testing at SEGA on 16th March. All going well, we then hope to have it ready for release approximately a week later."

:dizzy2:

My personal take;

I assume their target date for the patch is 20090101, so if its earlier I'm happy. Just my 2¢ worth. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Carl

Because their in diffrent Time zones, about the time where getting up, they're going to bed, they simply aren't in the offices at eithier end at the same for much of the day so they have to rely on e-mail for everything, and considering the complexity of the issues their dealing with it would be murder to try to do everything by e-mail. SO they're very limited in time wise.

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Still, every single businessman who ever goes on an international business trip has the same problem when reporting home, but they get it done.

There is something to be said about hunkering down when there is a known issue and you are trying to sell your product. But, maybe that's jsut my own personal philosophy...

To each his own, I guess :yes:

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Originally Posted by Agent Smith

Still, every single businessman who ever goes on an international business trip has the same problem when reporting home, but they get it done.

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Uh yeah so aren't they doing what they can in getting the job done then for their side?

I've had to work with people in Hong Kong from Canada and while email was our main method of communication they were times when it would've been more effective to simply contact with each other over the phone. For the people who didn't had office hours it was easier to work with but that lawyer....:wall:

Otherwise I would have to wait for the response time since the guy on the other end won't be responding until he wakes up and goes to his office.

IMO it's good they hold off final release until its done right...please continue this trend into actual game and expansion releases!

On the contrary, I wish they'd hurry the hell up and patch this horribly broken game that's been so for the past 4 months. Patience only goes so far.

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Still, every single businessman who ever goes on an international business trip has the same problem when reporting home, but they get it done.

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Yeah, but when i chat to Pala or Caliban, it's late evening in Australia and early morning UK. So they're not in the CA Oz office, how are they supposed to chat about things effectively if they're not at the office and bring up the code, or bring up the list or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Lusted

Yeah, but when i chat to Pala or Caliban, it's late evening in Australia and early morning UK. So they're not in the CA Oz office, how are they supposed to chat about things effectively if they're not at the office and bring up the code, or bring up the list or whatever.

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I don't know, stay up later so you can talk to them when they are in the office?

I'm not trying to be silly, but we all have to do it. I pulled plenty of all nighters in college because I had stuff I had to get done. I'm doing the same thing now going through law school. I'm not asking they work 24 hours a day all the time, just when there is a huge issue that needs to be dealt with such as this you may have to work around some inconveniences.

Palamedes earlier was pulling a late one, he was working til 7pm or something at the office, and that was only 10am here. They're already working over the usual 9-5, and they'd have to stay at the CA Oz office til about 10pm there time to leave enough time for a good convo with the UK office.

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Originally Posted by Lusted

Palamedes earlier was pulling a late one, he was working til 7pm or something at the office, and that was only 10am here. They're already working over the usual 9-5, and they'd have to stay at the CA Oz office til about 10pm there time to leave enough time for a good convo with the UK office.

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Well, in the business world, sometimes that is what has to be done. The other comments made it sound like they really weren't attempting to make it work like that. If they are doing that, then good.

Of course they're trying, it's just more difficult to communicte with the CA UK office, so it will always be a few days after somethings happened before a new plan can be decided upon because of having to discuss it with SEG as well and everything else.

Just to remind everyone, we're here to discuss the patch, not our opinions of CA's business practices ~;)

im quite happy with this response, we all know that if they had released a patch with buggy code in it IE passive ai, the community would scream like crazy at them, just like what happened with the original release. perhaps the folks at ca/sega are learning :D
i can wait a little longer, although its hard not to play seeing as i just upgraded my pc. everything is so shiney with all settings on high :D

Cheers Knoddy

Good news.

I am still playing the "unofficial" 1.2 and I am pretty happy with the improvements.

I have experienced the CTD three times out of many hours (30+, easily) of playing. Once was coming out of a sally-from-seige fight that the AI started, and the other two times were when I clicked an agent (a merchant both times I think) to select him from my Agent list.

These have all been in the same campaign as Sicily (vh/vh), but the game does fine if you reload, and doesn't recrash by repeating anything, or get stuck at a bugged point. Before this campaign I played a short one as England with no problems.

I save a lot now.

I *have* seen some unusual AI in battles, though it seems to be much better overall. I once had a defensive position high on a steep mountain to start the battle, and the AI stopped far away from me and set up facing the opposite direction, as if it were the army waiting for an attack - from the wrong direction. I had no reinforcements coming in.

Overall this is a MUCH better vanilla game. Spies and Assassins have been tweaked nicely. Assassins are easier to train on killings alone without going through an extensive Arsonist Training Program, but you still have to be very careful selecting targets, and a lot of them will die in training. Your Faction Leader's reputation takes a lot of hits for using assassins now, so forget it if you want to stay Chivalrous. I guess people tend to notice when your rivals disappear a lot... :laugh4:

Spies are HARDER to train and seem to get killed a lot more often infiltrating cities (which is much much more difficult percentage-wise to do now). You don't see quite the flood of them from the AI now, which I think is good.

The new diplomatic AI is much more dynamic, as you get relations improvements for fighting someone's foes, and negotiating agreements with diplomats/princesses is much more reasonable now, even on vh. Some of them like to haggle, too. I've seen deals go through two or three counter-offers per side before coming to a compromise. Even with good relations the AI diplomats will try to get you to agree to one-sided demanding deals if you let them.

This campaign has been challenging. The AI holds alliances better, but they WILL stab you if they think they can get away with it. The AI also makes a lot more "enemy of my enemy is my friend" alliances among themselves (due to their good relations from both fighting you). So if you are at war with multiple nations, they WILL start ganging up together on you.

hopefully this will help sega realise that running a ozzy office just isnt reasonable in the modern world. i say move all operations back to britain where everything works proper.

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Originally Posted by KARTLOS

hopefully this will help sega realise that running a ozzy office just isnt reasonable in the modern world. i say move all operations back to britain where everything works proper.

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Maybe it works like Oz did originally - just now, it's a SEGA penal colony. Do your job and do it well, or be "exiled" (I use the term loosely) to Oz. I'm not sure how horrible of a threat that is anymore though, it could actually be pretty nice.

Maybe if enough guys end up in CA Oz, they can declare themselves independent from their GB offices just like the founding Aussies did. :beam:

Riiight.

And the Aussie bashing stops now.

If you feel like continuing, check where I come from << :grin2:

Brisbane where's that? Near Norway I presume? :P

back to where everything works proper(properly)? wasn't that the reason they moved convicts here in the first place because things wern't working there? :P and then all the immigrants left because they wanted a better life :P

its not really bashing we all know the rivalry that can occur between aussies and the british :P and there should be an Aussie office, what about hte hard working aussies that helped make this game eh? gonna leave em out in the cold, I'd also remind you its the aussies making the 1.2 patch that is actually fixing the game :P

I haven't posted regarding the patch, but it does bring up one thing I read a while back. Rather than having only a couple "mega" patches that it would be better to have several smaller patches. Set ongoing deadlines. Any fix that resolves a bug gets put into the next patch. If something is found at the last minute that causes problems, remove it and release the rest. I'd rather see several incremental updates that improve the game bit by bit, than one huge update that due to it's enormous size and the promise that it'll fix a vast majority of the problems gets delayed because of one unforeseeable glitch.

So far reports say that the unofficial 1.2 patch works as intended (you do need to install over a fresh 1.0 copy). Why can't we get the patch minus the code that causes the problem. Why delay the entire thing. Release what you have, and keep moving forward. Since the original release of M2TW couldn't be released in a perfect state, why try to make this one patch perfect with all the fixes you intended for it.

Or maybe this is just too simple of a concept.

I think CA work the way they do because they are 'allowed' to make x patches and no more.

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Originally Posted by sbroadbent

I haven't posted regarding the patch, but it does bring up one thing I read a while back. Rather than having only a couple "mega" patches that it would be better to have several smaller patches. Set ongoing deadlines. Any fix that resolves a bug gets put into the next patch. If something is found at the last minute that causes problems, remove it and release the rest. I'd rather see several incremental updates that improve the game bit by bit, than one huge update that due to it's enormous size and the promise that it'll fix a vast majority of the problems gets delayed because of one unforeseeable glitch.

So far reports say that the unofficial 1.2 patch works as intended (you do need to install over a fresh 1.0 copy). Why can't we get the patch minus the code that causes the problem. Why delay the entire thing. Release what you have, and keep moving forward. Since the original release of M2TW couldn't be released in a perfect state, why try to make this one patch perfect with all the fixes you intended for it.

Or maybe this is just too simple of a concept.

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It doesn't work "as intended." According to the release that started this thread, the "intermittent passive AI" is the main target right now, which means to CA at least, this is dysfunctional behavior, and requires fixing. Many things work right, but that one (at least) does not. And that's not even counting the fact that you have to reinstall the game to 1.0 to use the leaked patch. You could write that off as unimportant, but in reality it's a pain in the butt, and in itself warrants them pausing to remedy it.

As for more patching... I'm sure we've been over this ground before, but for your benefit sbroadbent I'll list reasons not to update more frequently:

1. Doing so invariably means users are running vastly different versions of the game, as many are too lazy to constantly update. This in turn causes confusion, the persistent reporting of old already fixed bugs, and can cause multiplayer compatibility issues as well.

2. Frequent releases waste the developer's time. The more they issue patches, the more time they must spend packing them up, making sure they install correctly, and all of that jazz that isn't simply writing code. Not only is it inefficient to do that step more often than necessary... but it also makes the rest of the process less efficient. Each patch becomes undefined, including whatever happens to get fixed from time A to time B. This means the team doesn't know what's in the patch until it goes out the door, and must spend time figuring out what they're supposed to be doing more often since the patch is so fluid. Also, it's disrupting to release often: generally developers can get in a groove if they're working in the same direction for a while, and will usually remember right where to pick up again next time. Constant releases distract from that continuity of the development process.

3. Cost. One main reason this isn't often done is that it requires huge amounts more testing than a few larger patches do. That testing costs a lot of money. Testing is required for every update that goes out the door, because any one of them being messed up like the 1.2 patch is would cause a big problem. So more releases = more testing = more money, which means companies will try hard not to do it.

4. Less updates means they tend to make bigger splashes each time there is one. Look how hyped people are for 1.2. If these fixes had come out instead in 10 smaller patches, hardly anyone would be raving about how much work the dev team was doing to patch the game. In fact most of us might not even realize the patches were fixing noticeable things, we'd be likely to just take them for granted. Along the same lines, big updates get noticed by other gaming entities as well. The 1.2 update for M2TW is likely to be packaged with notable gaming magazines, and hosted on a myriad of sites due to its perceived importance to the game. Smaller patches are perceived as less important, and so would never rate that sort of special treatment.

There's probably more, but it's getting a lil late here and I'm running out of steam, so I'm going to call it quits. That should be more than enough info for everyone to chew on. Besides, four points is plenty enough for one post :smile:

Thanks for he feedback CA, I really appreciate it.

i just wish they had this attitude before they relased games and annouced relase dates. :no: but i guess its the industry norm now

Unfortunately most developers dont have the luxury of keeping working on a game until its perfect. I guess they could spend a year testing the game (which is probably how long it would take to find most of the bugs with a small team) but then CA would have probably gone bust by now if they'd taken that route so you wouldnt even have an M2TW to be bitching about, ever.

Alternatively you release a playable game on time with a few significant bugs (but not show stopping IMO - if the shield bug is a 'game killer' how come it took so long for people to even notice it) and a slew of minor ones, some of which you will possibly know about before shipping (release day patches are pretty much a given these days) and most of which you dont - but will find out about very soon because 1000's of people playing a game in lots of different ways than you envisaged is going to turn up LOTS of bugs you would never have thought to look for in a million years of testing.

So, which is it people?
Scenario 1 : CA goes bust because they arent selling any games because theyre not allowed to release them until theyre perfect. So no more TW games, ever.
Scenario 2 : CA release slightly buggy games and fix most of the bugs after a few months of patching.

Unless anyone can come up with another scenario, that is. Note: scenario must work in the real world, not a fantasy one where companies dont need money to stay in business.

Yes, i guess in a sense we're paying to be beta testers. If that makes you really really angry, i suggest you have a read of the newspapers once in a while and try to get a sense of perspective (to paraphrase Bill Hicks... albeit slightly more politely).

Rant over. :grin:

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

So, which is it people?
Scenario 1 : CA goes bust because they arent selling any games because theyre not allowed to release them until theyre perfect. So no more TW games, ever.
Scenario 2 : CA release slightly buggy games and fix most of the bugs after a few months of patching.

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The 2nd option is considered standard practice right now, for better or worse. The problem is the current game we have is in terrible shape, hell it makes even Bethesda look like a good software publisher. The shield bug, unit cohesion nonsense, bad pathing, and passive AI are all very serious, game breaking bugs. "Game breaking" doesn't mean CTD, it also means making gameplay thoroughly aggravating, unenjoyable, and a crap shot at best. Of course, one can never expect the Official CA Apologist Crew© or the hardcore fanboys to understand this.

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Originally Posted by DaveyBaby

Unless anyone can come up with another scenario, that is. Note: scenario must work in the real world, not a fantasy one where companies dont need money to stay in business.

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~:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DaveyBaby

Yes, i guess in a sense we're paying to be beta testers. If that makes you really really angry, i suggest you have a read of the newspapers once in a while and try to get a sense of perspective (to paraphrase Bill Hicks... albeit slightly more politely).

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Oh please. There's a very fine black and white line between being a paying to be on an official beta and being forced into being what amounts to be a beta tester by the publisher. Seeing how this game was never announced or marketed as a "Open Beta" it becomes pretty obvious which category this is. Had I known this was where the game was going to be 4 full months after it's release I would not have dropped my hard earned cash on it. Oh well, we all know how the saying goes. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." This was the last title I buy from CA at launch, if at all.

:shame:

Hmmmm after some thought, i would have to agree. CA needs to make the game in UK. For reasons we won't get into.


AUSSIE BASHING......woot.... some one has to.

In New Zealand Lamb price is about $7.00 a kilogram, when the wallabies come to play the all blacks, it goes up to $35.00 an hour.

Whats an Aussie with a BMW....a Lebo. :laugh4:

Whats an Aussie with a Mercedes......a really good theif. :laugh4:


Come sapi.....put them dukes up :clown:




fenir

fenir, you really are tempting me here, and if you weren't australian I'd be doing nasty things to you about now :grin2:

Since this topic is now for all patch 1.2 discussion I'll mention this. If the Pope asks you to cease hostilities you can no longer continue to hold an enemy under siege. You will be excommunicated. As I just found out the hard way :shame:

Still, thats a good change.

A patch requiring this much effort can't be a good approach to developing a computer program. It gets to a point where doing it right in the first place is a more efficient process. Troubleshooting a bug can take more time than the time it would have taken to write working code in the first place. I thought the RTW v1.2 patch, which took 3 months and almost half of the whole development team and addressed over 100 problems, went beyond this point, and now the M2TW v1.2 appears to be an even bigger effort. It's not good business, and the company's credibility as a capable developer suffers.

@Fenir & Sapi: :laugh4:.

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

Unfortunately most developers dont have the luxury of keeping working on a game until its perfect. I guess they could spend a year testing the game (which is probably how long it would take to find most of the bugs with a small team) but then CA would have probably gone bust by now if they'd taken that route so you wouldnt even have an M2TW to be bitching about, ever.

Alternatively you release a playable game on time with a few significant bugs (but not show stopping IMO - if the shield bug is a 'game killer' how come it took so long for people to even notice it) and a slew of minor ones, some of which you will possibly know about before shipping (release day patches are pretty much a given these days) and most of which you dont - but will find out about very soon because 1000's of people playing a game in lots of different ways than you envisaged is going to turn up LOTS of bugs you would never have thought to look for in a million years of testing.

So, which is it people?
Scenario 1 : CA goes bust because they arent selling any games because theyre not allowed to release them until theyre perfect. So no more TW games, ever.
Scenario 2 : CA release slightly buggy games and fix most of the bugs after a few months of patching.

Unless anyone can come up with another scenario, that is. Note: scenario must work in the real world, not a fantasy one where companies dont need money to stay in business.

Yes, i guess in a sense we're paying to be beta testers. If that makes you really really angry, i suggest you have a read of the newspapers once in a while and try to get a sense of perspective (to paraphrase Bill Hicks... albeit slightly more politely).

Rant over. :grin:

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Fair enough, very well presented. since i have been an advocate of the other side of the argument I feel it fair to acknowledge your position. You make sound arguments and decent rationals based on common sense, logic, and the reality of the industry.

Perspective though is a funny concept and one that shouldnt be suggested lightly. As a consumer you pay for a product and you have a certain expectation of what you are buying. If it dosent meet with your expectations and you continue to buy it, the process continues on because you are enableing it to do so.

I dont suppose to know how companies can make "perfect games" I do know that games are produced in the state they are now mainly because the public buys them as is.

Not only that but we have vibrant modding commuties and forums where users post links to user made fixes to the game almost like a badge of honor. And on top of that we have a leaked 1.2 patch that had (by thier own admission) more bugs that caused the game to crash(which were discovered at the last hour before release, assuming we give them the maximum benefit of the doubt).

And whats the general concensus on the 1.2 situation? I have read a lot of data on this board and others and for the most part everyone is happy to have the files leaked to work on, happy that CA has pulled it back until fixed, and content to wait until it is ready to go (thats the majority opinion thus far).

And that my friend is the problem. An entire culture has been born, and is flourishing around games that are produced incomplete at the start. Maybe my point of view is a little off center, but I have yet to come across another industry that produces a product where a culture thrives on its inperfections, in almost glee.

It as if they are doing us some great service by correcting issues with thier product, and not only that should someone suggest that they should have had it done prior, it becomes

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CA would have probably gone bust by now if they'd taken that route so you wouldnt even have an M2TW to be bitching about, ever.

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.

Maybe my expectations are to high, but really why should I expect more from them, we have an army of willing consumers happy to support the current norm. :dizzy2:

Meh, the game shouldn't have been released in the state it was and we shouldn't still be putting up with the game in this state.

But it doesn't matter what we say or think at all and it wouldn't matter if a handful of us voted with our wallet. Mainly because when the next Total War game comes out the magazines will review it and say "OMFG best game EVA!!!!!!!!!!! *masturbates*" and then a million people will read that and buy the game unaware that it is buggy as hell.
So they've got their money and a few dissenting fans who actually know and care about the bugs won't make any difference. Sad but true.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Meh, the game shouldn't have been released in the state it was and we shouldn't still be putting up with the game in this state.

But it doesn't matter what we say or think at all and it wouldn't matter if a handful of us voted with our wallet. Mainly because when the next Total War game comes out the magazines will review it and say "OMFG best game EVA!!!!!!!!!!! *masturbates*" and then a million people will read that and buy the game unaware that it is buggy as hell.
So they've got their money and a few dissenting fans who actually know and care about the bugs won't make any difference. Sad but true.

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The magazines are part of the gaming culture, they have everything to gain by giving games great ratings.

the only persons who can effect a change in the gaming culture is the consumer, companies that are for profit always gear there business to make the customer happy.

It has to be said the length of time that this patch has taken..and its vast size surely indicates how poor the original code really is.

In a way I feel sorry for CA..since release the game has come under heavy fire for snazzy looks..and not a lot of time spent on the real meat..aka getting the AI, and game working correctly. Things went from bad to worse with further delays..and well withdrawn patch 1.2,

There is nothing new to all this...its a sad fact of life that companies release unfinished games a lot more nowadays..CA are not alone in this. Some more than others..but shockingly some games dont have a lot of issues.

I really hope CA can recover from all this..the damage done to their reputation has been vast. It would be a shame to suffer for this in the long run. I know many players will now be much more sceptical about buying a CA game in the future..lessons will have to be learnt here..and big ones.

If you do a job for someone..whatever that is...paint a house..fix a car..make a cabinet...you should do the best job you can. Quality counts for more than quantity. Do a bodge job and you do yourself no favours at all. Your rep suffers..and cowboys land you get marked with.

Software whilst not that extreme is the same. Nobody expects perfection. But we really deserve better than this.

I hope CA can take all this in and put extra effort into ensuring that future releases are at least acceptable in quality. Maybe part of the problem is lack of competition....that would help to give them a wake up call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark O'Connell/SenseiTW

Thanks for your ongoing patience.

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I think someone doesn't quite grasp the situation.

I for one have learned my lesson now.

Next time, I'll just wait for the box with patched original and expansion(s) all in one for less the amount you have to pay for the bugged original at its' release.

No more "special edition" for me.

Same here - while it looks as if the 'when it's ready' attitude of things right now is a good one, I'll be getting my next CA games from the bargain bin.

For every single person on this forum who will not buy the next CA game, there are a thousand others out there who will.

If we really want to try to change the way CA works we should like start a topic on the expansion pack and those of us who will not buy it on release can make our voice heard there. We can then see how much money CA is losing. If they really do read this forum then they might take notice then. Basically, to change anything we'd have to show that we're united by the fact that we refuse to accept unfinished work anymore.

I think that there is a lack of true perspective from many of CA's critics right now. Ten or fifteen years ago (pre-WWW), there were no forums for discussions of the relative merits of computer games other than magazines and groups of friends. If game was released with a "killer bug", the general gaming community would know about it but minor bugs didn't tend to get much air. Games that were imperfect tended to be generally recognised as such but it wasn't considered too big a deal if they were still enjoyable.

Online forums have changed all this. The Guild is a perfect example. There may be a few hardcore modders who would have found all the bugs in M2TW even were they operating in splendid isolation but their number would have been small. The vast majority of us would have played the game, enjoyed it or not and become fans or not on that basis.

The lists of bugs and the regular threads of outraged indignation merely serve to heighten awareness of problems with the game out of all proportion to the true situation. Purists who think that a game is unplayable if it doesn't work exactly as planned may hate M2TW but a lot of people aren't bothered.

Do you know how many copies of M2TW have been shifted? And do you know how many of those with a copy frequent these boards? This forum lists 19,560 members, not all of whom will be current and not all of whom will own the game. Far more than 20,000 people own this game. The vast majority of them will play it unaware of any problems. They may notice that some things don't happen as they expect or that some units behave/perform unexpectedly but they'll live with it or bin the game. No big deal.

The idea that CA's reputation is damaged to a "vast" extent is laughable. That may be the case with the hardcore who really know their stuff, buy loads of games each year and spends ten of hours playing each week but with the average punter (2-3 games a year, average of 5 or so hours played each week), it's not. Average punters seriously outnumber the hardcore but they pay just as much per unit.

I'm not a CA "apologist" or "fanboy" but I do work in IT. I know that CA are working in conjunction with SEGA. I know that SEGA are hugely successful, not because they appeal to the hardcore community but because they sell products in their millions to the mainstream "leisure" market.

CA will be feeling bad that the original game was as bugged as it has turned out to be but, like most of us, it probably took them a while to realise the true extent. They will wish they'd got the patches out sooner but they'll know they have a certain level of resource and a finite capacity.

The game works. Not perfectly but it works. If it doesn't work well enough for you, let it go. Find other things to do with your time. For most of us, a delay to the patch of one week or one month is a little frustrating but really no big deal.

We're talking about a computer game here. A fun but trivial bit of kit designed to help you waste a few hours of downtime. It's not like someone sold you a car with faulty brakes or an life insurance policy that didn't cover you properly. If that were the case, some of the rants I've read recently would be justified.

As it is, withdraw your hard-earned cash from CA's future sales pipeline, if you like. Boycott SEGA. Write letters to your MP, Senator or village elder. Rant furiously to the likeminded about how the whole world's gone to hell in a handcart because shields in M2TW are bugged and the pathfinding doesn't always work.

But please realise that employees of CA probably don't care as much as you do. Sure, they prefer to have happy campers in consumerville but, for the most part, they do. Some people are pissed off but they're few in number. Confronted by all the real issues of daily life (relationships, illness, stress, etc.), passive AI may not seem such a big deal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diotavelli

We're talking about a computer game here. A fun but trivial bit of kit designed to help you waste a few hours of downtime. It's not like someone sold you a car with faulty brakes or an life insurance policy that didn't cover you properly. If that were the case, some of the rants I've read recently would be justified.

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I agree with your overall sentiment that in the larger scope of life this game is really trivial, and that the gripes here are mostly from hardcore players, on that I concede. However comments like the one about the car brakes are very telling and apart of the larger problem.

Like it or not your rationalizing the fact that the game was infact released with problems. By your own example, what would you do if you had recieved the car like that? List the problem on a bug forum and link your fix in your signature?

Quote:

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As it is, withdraw your hard-earned cash from CA's future sales pipeline, if you like. Boycott SEGA. Write letters to your MP, Senator or village elder. Rant furiously to the likeminded about how the whole world's gone to hell in a handcart because shields in M2TW are bugged and the pathfinding doesn't always work.

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Sarcasm lessens your position considerably. No one has suggested that this has a major impact on the world as a whole, but since this is a fan site for the game critisism here is appropriate. Minimalizing the valid arguments on an appropriate site do little to validate your own position, IMHO.

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But please realise that employees of CA probably don't care as much as you do.

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We realise this.

Quote:

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Sure, they prefer to have happy campers in consumerville but, for the most part, they do. Some people are pissed off but they're few in number. Confronted by all the real issues of daily life (relationships, illness, stress, etc.), passive AI may not seem such a big deal.

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again no one is suggesting that this is the end of the world. This is a fansite of the totalwar series and an appropriate place to discuss the total war games and thier impact on the forum members who chose to participate.

Continual comparissons to life events of larger scopes underlines the weakness of your argument. Of course this dosent compare to

Quote:

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(relationships, illness, stress, etc.)

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but the Org isnt dedicated to those realities now is it? :no:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diotavelli

biiig post

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hear hear! what I've been trying to say all along. The best thing to do probably is either get a petition or write to CA employees, in a nice but firm way that if the next game is as buggy or has some major problems with it, you won't be buying it. Considering that CA employees actually post on forums which happens once in a blue moon on EA forums or other faceless publishing entities, they may take more note of what you say, as long as you aren't insulting. Continuing to whine/rant/complain may make you feel better, but CA isn't constantly watching this thread, you need to make a thread, get lusted to tell them to read the thread or ask someone else to do that. If CA says theyre hands are tied then you will have to barge into the SEGA boardroom and demand that developers get more time to make bugless games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odin

I agree with your overall sentiment that in the larger scope of life this game is really trivial, and that the gripes here are mostly from hardcore players, on that I concede. However comments like the one about the car brakes are very telling and apart of the larger problem.

Like it or not your rationalizing the fact that the game was infact released with problems. By your own example, what would you do if you had recieved the car like that? List the problem on a bug forum and link your fix in your signature?





Sarcasm lessens your position considerably. No one has suggested that this has a major impact on the world as a whole, but since this is a fan site for the game critisism here is appropriate. Minimalizing the valid arguments on an appropriate site do little to validate your own position, IMHO.



We realise this.



again no one is suggesting that this is the end of the world. This is a fansite of the totalwar series and an appropriate place to discuss the total war games and thier impact on the forum members who chose to participate.

Continual comparissons to life events of larger scopes underlines the weakness of your argument. Of course this dosent compare to but the Org isnt dedicated to those realities now is it? :no:

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This thread is more about the actual patch and its upcomingness than to continually complain about the state the game was released in yadda yadda yadda, if someone could make a topic like that and then sticky so everyone can complain rant and other things in it, it would be appreciated.

and yes I know everyone has a right to be angry and annoyed but I'm more interested in news of the patch, and people keep complaining about the patch, the delays and the bugginess of the game which this post isn't for, no I'm not trying to self moderate but Its just wearing a little thin, we know yer annoyed and you have eeeeevery right in the world to be annoyed at the state of the game, but you don't need to keep telling us. Which is why a topic where you can all get aggro to your hearts content would be great, because it would unclutter this post and then I could actually read for news on the update (no offense to anyone ok? :))

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Durallan

This thread is more about the actual patch and its upcomingness than to continually complain about the state the game was released in yadda yadda yadda, if someone could make a topic like that and then sticky so everyone can complain rant and other things in it, it would be appreciated.

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Since you quoted me I will repsond in kind.

There is a PM feature and reporting feature you can use Durallan to ask for this more formally. The mods will reply to you, and if they deem the post innappropriate will correct it in thier own manner via PM or a posted remark as to how to proceed further, which smart forum members will abide.

You also have the option of not reading posts by simply moving to the next one that is relevant to your desire. Because you percieve a thread to be "more about" something dosent mean that the other posts arent relevant or valid.

Basically, no one is forcing you to read these posts Durallan, you choose to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odin

Since you quoted me I will repsond in kind.

There is a PM feature and reporting feature you can use Durallan to ask for this more formally. The mods will reply to you, and if they deem the post innappropriate will correct it in thier own manner via PM or a posted remark as to how to proceed further, which smart forum members will abide.

You also have the option of not reading posts by simply moving to the next one that is relevant to your desire. Because you percieve a thread to be "more about" something dosent mean that the other posts arent relevant or valid.

Basically, no one is forcing you to read these posts Durallan, you choose to.

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This is relevant to my desire, Topic Title: Latest update on 1.2 patch from Sega/CA

Yes I can ask for it more formally but I thought a nice unformal post would be better. I don't just mean you either I mean alot of people ahve been posting about the delays etc, anyway Yes one does have he option of not reading posts but seeing they go in a logical progression from the top of the page to the bottom you normally read them all....

I didn't say they wern't relevant or valid I just think a seperate post where you can express your frustrations to your hearts content would be more appropriate and also would be in one location so instead of telling SEGA/CA to look at all these seperate pages in topics, you can just tell them to look at the one topic. (if anyone is actually going to do so)

Oh and thanks for being so polite to me Odin.

EDIT:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapi

Just to remind everyone, we're here to discuss the patch, not our opinions of CA's business practices ~;)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Since this topic is now for all patch 1.2 discussion I'll mention this. If the Pope asks you to cease hostilities you can no longer continue to hold an enemy under siege. You will be excommunicated. As I just found out the hard way :shame:

Still, thats a good change.

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Was like that in 1.1 already. :p

Any news on the other two tests I was asking about? I mean you are bound to have killed at least 1 enemy army so far right? (for the display thing)

As for the experience bonus you got the buildings yet? :D

Hey FactionHeir what were the other tests you wanted done?

EDIT: (instead of making ANOTHER post :P ;) )

I'm not too sure Sinan, thats what I thought too! for some people it seems not?

I thought it was'nt like that in 1.10. If you already have a city under siege, can't you just hold the siege and if it's over and you get the city, the Pope seems ok about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Durallan

This is relevant to my desire, Topic Title: Latest update on 1.2 patch from Sega/CA

Yes I can ask for it more formally but I thought a nice unformal post would be better. I don't just mean you either I mean alot of people ahve been posting about the delays etc, anyway Yes one does have he option of not reading posts but seeing they go in a logical progression from the top of the page to the bottom you normally read them all....

I didn't say they wern't relevant or valid I just think a seperate post where you can express your frustrations to your hearts content would be more appropriate and also would be in one location so instead of telling SEGA/CA to look at all these seperate pages in topics, you can just tell them to look at the one topic. (if anyone is actually going to do so)

Oh and thanks for being so polite to me Odin.

EDIT:

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So you are correct, I didnt see Sapi's original post. I dont know if the others did but I wont post any more on thier business practices in this thread.

Thanks for posting that, i truly did miss it. :oops:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Durallan

Hey FactionHeir what were the other tests you wanted done?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Did CA fix the retraining bug? I.e. having buildings that give global or local boni to experience of units trained but units come out green? Its not in the patch readme, but I'd rather ask to make sure before reporting it again for the buglist.
You can try to see if it happens by having a building (i.e. jousting lists or barracks) which gives experience boni (to cav and armoured sergeants respectively) and train said units. Instead of ending turn when training, save and reload. Do not reset the queue after loading. Now end turn and see if the units are green or not. (ie. available for retraining)

Could you also check for the text "Your Forces Melt Away" and "Enemy Army Routs" whether the correct commander's name is being displayed? In 1.1 at least its always the wrong commander's name.

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That :)

Odin,

Thanks for your reply. A couple of points though:

1. Yes, I'm rationalising the fact that the game was released with problems. I'm doing so because a) it's only a game and b) most new products in the world are released imperfect. I know this because I've project-managed a few releases myself and I've bought new houses and cars before.

2. If I bought a car with faulty brakes, I'd take it back to the showroom and demand it were fixed or replaced because it would kill me otherwise. That would be a serious problem (IMO, at least). However, when I bought a new house that had some problems, I fixed them myself and got on with my life. I could have called the builders/developers and demanded the work be done and paid for me but I realised that would take longer and was unnecessary. The same applies with the game: provide your own fix or wait for the official one - it's no big deal.

3. I realise this is a fan site and that therefore it is an appropriate context for criticism - I never suggested otherwise. My point was that people seemed to lack perspective. Sure it's fair to criticise the game but to leap to conclusions about the way a company is run and about their attitude to their customers on the flimsiest of evidence is daft.

4. Apologies if my sarcasm upset you. I fail to see how it "lessens [my] position considerably" - my points are either valid or not but you're entitled to you opinion. I didn't attempt to minimalise (arguably) valid arguments but simply to demonstrate that the seriousness of those arguments were not of the magnitude some people seem to believe, IMO.

5. Who is the "we" who realise that CA don't care as much as you do? A royal 'we' or can you speak for all 19,500+ members of this forum?

6. You try to suggest that my argument is weak because I compare M2TW bug issues with major, real life issues - but that is my point, that is my argument. As I said above, I do not for one second believe that The Guild is not an appropriate place for discussions on this issue. I believe, however, that those discussions would be more efficacious if undertaken with greater perspective.

7. The .Org is not dedicated to CA's business practices or policy. Other people (who happen to share your overalll POV) have commented on these and you haven't seen the need to censure them. You have commented on the culture in which computer games are released these days and the role of gaming magazines; again, the .Org is not dedicated these either? That being the case, why should I not bring in other non-TW issues to the discussion? Because you disagree with my position?

My point remains the same: many people now feel the game is so bugged it should not have been released; I believe many of these people only feel this way because they've made aware of bugs they'd never have discovered themselves. Discussions of bugs and CA's response to them have been inclined to the hysterical. I suggested therefore that a little perspective would be useful.

We have no way of knowing if CA believed the game was bugged when they released it (so far as I'm aware - forgive me if I'm wrong) and no way of knowing if they could have released effective patches sooner than they did. Arguments to the contrary are plain wrong. Leaping from such arguments to condemnations of CA, the whole games industry or anything else are therefore without foundation.

hey guys i have just finished up reading the new preview on kingdoms in GS

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...&mode=previews

now in the second patch they are talking about the hotseat that will be included
in the expansion but according to it the hotseat is still planned to be out
with patch 1.2 which will make me very happy :D.
the thing that get me confused is the fact that in 3.4.07 they told it goes off
the patch and will feature only in kingdoms which caused me to be sad.
and the preview is from 13.4.07 that means today ...

so which is more reliable ? usually i would think CA site would be but it wasn't
updated for a long time and according to the forums sites the patch is still
planned for Thursday April 5.

help me out guys ... tell me that CA decided to make the right thing and put
the hotseat in original medieval 2 as well.

@Whacker: I note you failed to choose either of the two scenarios, or to suggest any scenarios of your own, so i assume youre happy with the status quo. If not, what do you suggest is the solution to this problem? Repeating the same complaints over again at every opportunity doesnt seem to be working, though i commend your efforts. :wink:

Quote:

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"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." This was the last title I buy from CA at launch, if at all.

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Yeah, yeah, sure. I bet you said that last time, too. :grin:
I take this statement as giving me carte blanche to point at you and call you names if i see you on here moaning about Whatever's Next:Total War.
Oh, and you got that saying wrong, i believe its 'Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odin

The magazines are part of the gaming culture, they have everything to gain by giving games great ratings.

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To be fair, the magazines arent going to have a chance to spot things like the shield bug after the (relatively) small amount of time they get to spend with the game. Note that nobody noticed the shield bug (at least i dont recall seeing any mention of it on here) until a couple of months after release. Thats with 1000s of people playing the game.

The real problem with magazines is that quite often they will review beta code (okay... since the general opinion is that the release code is still in a beta state - i will say pre-release code), knowing its still going to be worked on prior to release, and assuming (or being told) that the bugs they do notice are probably going to be fixed. Gah!

Quote:

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Perspective though is a funny concept and one that shouldnt be suggested lightly. As a consumer you pay for a product and you have a certain expectation of what you are buying. If it dosent meet with your expectations and you continue to buy it, the process continues on because you are enableing it to do so.

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Absolutely - i do have a certain expectation of what i will be buying. My expectation was that, being a complex strategy game, it would have bugs - just as pretty much every strategy game i've bought over the last 15 years has had bugs. My expectations are that these bugs will get fixed. I'd like anyone who has been a regular games purchaser, and who was still surprised and horrified to discover that M2TW had bugs on release, to please raise their hands so that the doctors can examine you. :wink:

I appreciate that we as paying customers have a right to expect a working product, but look, even moronic console games with the depth of a puddle ship with bugs. This is because all games software (in fact all software full stop) is now so complex that trying to comprehend all of the code at once would be like looking into the total perspective vortex. Games like M2TW that actually have complex gameplay as well as the graphics and physics engines have got it even worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odin

I do know that games are produced in the state they are now mainly because the public buys them as is.

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Its more like: companies are forced to rush games out to meet deadlines. There really is no choice - they are all in competition with each other to get something out while it still looks flashy enough compared to the competition that it will grab some sales.

Here's the thing: Strategy games (even if you include RTS stuff) have always had bugs. They will always have bugs. Its the price you pay for complexity. The current consumer obsession with flashy graphics and the vast cost of developing them means that sitting back and taking your time is simply not a viable option, and this combined with the ever increasing depth and complexity of these games means that we tend to get more bugs and more significant bugs.

At least CA/Sega are fixing the bugs. I know it doesnt sound like much to be grateful for but if theres else anyone out there that bought Master of Orion 3 you will know what i'm talking about. I may come across as a CA fanboy in these posts but believe me i'm not (i didnt enjoy RTW and wasnt going to bother with M2TW but ended up buying it anyway on a whim and was pleasantly surprised) but i do at least try to take account of the realities of the situation. The dozens of people posting "THEY SHOULDVE RELEASED THE GAME WITHOUT BUGS" or "THEY SHOULD MAKE THE AI CLEVERER" is about as insightful and helpful as saying "BEER SHOULD BE FREE" or "THEY SHOULD MAKE BEER THAT DOESNT GIVE YOU HANGOVERS". As nice as that would be, its not going to happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Was like that in 1.1 already. :p

Any news on the other two tests I was asking about? I mean you are bound to have killed at least 1 enemy army so far right? (for the display thing)

As for the experience bonus you got the buildings yet? :D

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In 1.1 the Pope always let me maintain sieges on cities even if he warned me.

Well yeah Ive had tonnes of battles and the name has been correct so far but that doesn't really prove anything. Could be wrong next time.

Haven't had the chance to test the upgrade thing and to be honest I don't really understand it. Im sure Foz or someone could give you a much better writeup.

In my 1.1 the pope never lets me maintain sieges, go figure :D

For the message, so if you defeat an enemy army and get the "enemy army routs" message, does it say your general's name or the enemy general's name right under the heading?

Retraining...did you ever train/retrain a unit in 1.2 and it ended up being retrainable the next turn again as the retrain seemed to do nothing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

In my 1.1 the pope never lets me maintain sieges, go figure :D

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Im becoming more and more convinced every day that there are about four differently programmed kinds of this game out there :juggle2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

For the message, so if you defeat an enemy army and get the "enemy army routs" message, does it say your general's name or the enemy general's name right under the heading?

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I... I... don't know now. That isn't the kind of thing I would normally notice. But in my game so far the name has been correct. Does it get it wrong all the time normally?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Retraining...did you ever train/retrain a unit in 1.2 and it ended up being retrainable the next turn again as the retrain seemed to do nothing?

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Nope. But then, I never did in 1.1 either as far as I know. :clown:

However, we promise to keep you informed on progress throughout the process of getting this update to you.

It's about time, that was my major problem with this whole delay is not that it was pushed back, thats fine let them get the bugs out, no my problem was that their was very infrequent updates on the update. It is better to not post a release date but they could at least have the courtesy to tell us, "oh we're fixing this" or "we're doing that". It was the complete silence that got on my nerves but hopefully now they will tell us whats going on until it is released.

Sorry if my last post was a bit abbrasive, but I am getting a bit sick and tired of the "CA is justified in doing this!!" or "CA can do no wrong!" attitudes which is somewhat how I perceived your post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

@Whacker: I note you failed to choose either of the two scenarios, or to suggest any scenarios of your own, so i assume youre happy with the status quo. If not, what do you suggest is the solution to this problem? Repeating the same complaints over again at every opportunity doesnt seem to be working, though i commend your efforts. :wink:

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The implication was that I am ok with option 2, as you stated. Games with minor or insignificant bugs are understandable, and acceptable in my personal view. As for repeating complaints, I'll keep doing that until CA rectifies the situation, or they make it obvious they do not care and I will move on and treat the $50 as a lesson learnt.

Quote:

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Yeah, yeah, sure. I bet you said that last time, too. :grin:
I take this statement as giving me carte blanche to point at you and call you names if i see you on here moaning about Whatever's Next:Total War.
Oh, and you got that saying wrong, i believe its 'Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again'.

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Actually I loved RTW from the get go, the only bug that really ruined it for me was the savegame corruption one in v1.0.

As for voting with my dollars, I've already done that with a number of games and franchises. Used to be a big fan of Valve... I think Steam is a DRM riddled pile of poop, Half-life 2 was decidedly mediocre, and I hate episodic content, as such I haven't bought anything on Steam since HL2, in fact I uninstalled Steam completely almost half a year ago. I unknowingly bought a Starforce crippled game about 2 years ago, when I finally figured out exactly what it was I've avoided every game on this list: http://www.glop.org/starforce/list.php like the plague. There are some games on here I'd really like to get too, but oh well.

Voting with your dollars works folks, period. The place where you make the impact and force businesses to listen is when you can affect their botton line. People who suggest not buying games is unrealistic are sadly mislead. Look at what happened to Ion Storm, the guys who put out the sheer awesomeness that is Deus Ex. They had 3 more titles, one of which was a flop, Deus Ex 2 was a horrible console port without any soul, and Thief 3 was another bad port using a terrible game engine. The lesson is simply make bad games, gamers won't buy, and the fat lady sings.

I sincerely hope CA will listen to it's fans and customers now and down the road. Been with the TW series from the beginning, but I'm willing to leave if it continues down this same path.

Respectfully
:balloon2:

Finally, I can proudly say this is the attitude I've always expected from CA. :yes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Im becoming more and more convinced every day that there are about four differently programmed kinds of this game out there :juggle2:

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Sometimes I think that too.

Quote:

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I... I... don't know now. That isn't the kind of thing I would normally notice. But in my game so far the name has been correct. Does it get it wrong all the time normally?

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Always the same. So if it displays once correctly it always displays correctly. Just have a look next time you beat an army in the field (and the army is eliminated)

Quote:

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Nope. But then, I never did in 1.1 either as far as I know. :clown:

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As you said at point 1 :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Always the same. So if it displays once correctly it always displays correctly. Just have a look next time you beat an army in the field (and the army is eliminated)

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Okay I finally have a definitive answer and it's bad news. Since Ive no doubt come across as totally incompetant Ive provided a screenshot as proof :laugh4:

https://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y1...d1536/name.jpg

Yup, still exists :D