Printable View
says vatican
Well, perhaps I'm going to have to revise my opinion on Pope Benedict a bit. I would have figured he would be more the type to damn all those little souls (well, damn to limbo at least) and reinforce the importance of baptism to get into heaven.
This would also mean that non-christian/non-catholic babies can get into heaven, which leaves open the door for a (more) secular form of Catholicism, just when I was afraid Benedict wanted to take us back to the dark ages.
:medievalcheers:
Are there many Belgians left who take the Vatican serious?
Errr...probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Though West Flanders still has an active Catholic community, the influence of the Vatican itself is minor I believe. In the rest of the country it's mostly the older people who still go to church. There are some 'new' younger believers, but protestantism seems to be more popular with those (they tend to be alternative types, so I guess they'd want an alternative religion too).
Of course, I'm from Antwerp (the region anyway), a traditional secular/atheist haven, so I might have a wrong picture of the rest of the country. (see my other post in the 'speak Durch... ' thread on how isolationist we tend to be.)
Good, now that they've had that question lifted off our consciences we can all go back to relaxing.
not that I give a damn...
but I find it funny how they just change their minds from one day to another....
I mean....wasn´t the former position of the church supposed to be God´s position?
so what happen?....did he call them in the bat-phone and say he changed his mind or what??? :laugh4:
bat-phone! ROFLOL :laugh4:
I thought this has been practice for the last couple of decades?
Theologians have been studying the issue at least as far back as 1984 before they came to this conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
Welcome to the wonderful world of Catholicism ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
That's the great thing about Catholicism - it's so vague. No-one knows what it's really all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
- Father Ted Crilly
Can he prove it?
Holy Mother Church moves forward at a spiritual and not a temporal pace.
Since the Lord rarely chooses direct conversation, part of the journey of spiritual growth is using our poor and imperfect powers of understanding to come closer and closer to Him [my use of the masculine pronoun is traditional, I suspect any male/female designation is actually irrelevant].
Well I must admit the title of this thread threw me off. Then when I saw the Vatican link I was like what the hell is this. I was raised Catholic and we were always taught that all babies go to heaven. Then I read the article and the part about them not being baptised. Well that sort of made sense. It was just a way of making people become Catholic in the old days. Well I guess nowdays as well. However this has never been the official doctrine of the church. They had no doctrine on it. Now they do.
PS Notice what his stement says
He didnt say they will. Maybe he lacks faith :inquisitive:Quote:
pe Benedict XVI has revised traditional Roman Catholic teaching on so-called "limbo," approving a church report released Friday that said there was reason to hope that babies who die without baptism can go to heaven.
errr... does this mean I can get my money back for the indulgences I bought?
It relates to a similar perspective which states that those who haven't been exposed to the Gospel cannot be damned, because the opportunity for salvation was never presented to no fault of their own.
Which, as logic would reply, means that total ignorance of the Gospel innoculates one from damnation.
Correct:smash:Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
Which of course demonstrates the total absurdity of the existential perspective of the Roman Catholic Church and its splinter organizations.
Sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
IN that case I am pretty sure Benedict himself is inoculated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
exactly!
if they wanted to ensure "salvation" for everyone they would simply stop preaching and disband...
no one hears about the gospel......everyone goes to heaven....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Catholics believe that salvation is attained through faith and good works - if lack of the former would be unculpable, there's still the other...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
Well, that's basically what I was told since Jesus said "Let the kids come to me."
Nice to know the pope found that out as well, if he goes on with that speed, he may still finish reading the bible in his lifetime.~;)
Oh well, it is nice that they finally got something right don't you think?
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
:yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
as a Catholic,
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
LOL.
This is old news though, 9 months to a year.
Well it obviously only applies to people conveived after the revision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Who is this Jesus, of which you speak?
[OK I'm in] :sweatdrop:
of course.....God is all forgiving...but a contract is a contract folks!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
Did you keep the receipt? The Church is very good at keeping records. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
Religions tend to from time to time split into two broad camps, organised seekers of the human soul vs organised willful ignorance. The first creates some of the greatest works of art and ideas in human existence the later tends to make bonfires of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
So ignorance and religion have a time honoured tradition of embrace and conflict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Whom... of whom. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Technically, the first is part of a predicate nominative construction, so 'who' is correct. The second should indeed be 'whom,' but I'm all for phasing the objective form out of our language anyhow, so meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
And back on topic: I didn't realize that limbo for infants was not official Roman Catholic doctrine. Fascinating as Catholic theology is, this was one tenet I could never appreciate. The change is welcome news, and I think does make the possibilities for Benedict's pontificate more interesting.
Ajax
Ill say this for you all one more time slowly so you will understand. "There was no revision" This is the first time the church has taken a official stance on this matter. Instead of praising them for making the right choice(even though they hedged their bets) many of you are ridiculing them.Quote:
Well it obviously only applies to people conveived after the revision.
That's why we are all so impressed. This is good news for babies and other believers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I've known some very evil babies. I don't think its fair to get a free pass just because you are a baby.
I believe I was raised with the limbo idea, technically, I at least knew that was the (semi) official stance. We do have a much cooler word for it in Dutch though 'voorgeborchte ', it's also the place where the good people go who were born before Jesus lived (or died, not sure about the time in between).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I always suspected him of being more of a traditionalist than a believer.Quote:
PS Notice what his stement says
He didnt say they will. Maybe he lacks faith :inquisitive:
Babies do have an unfair advantage in the limbo though. I don't think it would be so bad for them.
Yeah. I mean how much time can god give you for just one little old original sin?Quote:
Babies do have an unfair advantage in the limbo though. I don't think it would be so bad for them.
I was also for adults. I dont think theve shot down the idea of limbo here though.Quote:
I believe I was raised with the limbo idea,
Then maybe James Earl Jones -- if he finds his lack of faith disturbing -- should keep him in a distant chokehold :laugh4:Quote:
He didnt say they will. Maybe he lacks faith
But belief this, and belief that, babies to heaven, blah blah, yadda yadda, bing boop.... beh! Let us look at the simple fact(s): Earth is already Hell :saint:
And no: I'm not cynical.... not at all.
I thought this was always the case? :huh:
What do you mean by splinter organisations?Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
The IRA :laugh4:
Ha!
I'm with Gawain on this, too many people tryin to shoot down Holy Mother Church, for no good reason.
Just recently visited the Vatican myself. Did you know that inside the Vatican, a tiny litte state that I could run from one side to the other in less than 5 minutes, is contatined over 30% of the world's entire Art value (in money). Probably because of the Pieta which is worth in the 100s of Millions, and the Sistine Chapel which itself could easily fetch several Billion.
Sorry, slight OT.
Yup, i'm pretty sure that remains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I'm not sure what the official Catholic stand is on what happens to them at the end of days though.
probably protestants and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishArmenian
just wait a minute and I'll bring it back from the museum :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir