YellowMelon's Guide to M2TW Multiplayer

Medieval 2: Total War Guide to Multiplayer

Patch 1.1 Version

INTRO

I have been wanting to write a MP guide for M2TW for quite some time. I was initially going to split the workload with Bazzer, but he quit the game and ran off to BF2142. So months later, here I am, giving some help to those who get stomped online time after time and can’t figure out why. I hope this is helpful.

System Requirements

1.5 GHz Processor
512 MB RAM
8 GB Hard disk space
128 MB Graphics card
Windows 2K/ME/XP/Vista
Cable Minimum

Please remember before playing online to reduce your graphic settings to the lowest. Online works based off the lowest denominator of performance, so if you cannot match these requirements and have smooth play in single player, multiplayer WILL NOT WORK. Also, remember that your computer may not be able to handle games over a certain unit count, so don’t join games with anything but small unit size, and check the unit count, because you may not be able to play games that have more than 4 players.

My gaming rig is not near top of the line, but I can play 3v3s with full graphic detail with no lag, and very slight frame rate loss. You can view my rig for a guideline of performance here:

http://www.xfire.com/profile/yellowmelon/

SETUP STAGE

Map Settings

You can’t just enter a game without knowing what you are getting into. Are there trees? Are there hills? What is the season, what is the weather? I will explain briefly why these factors are critical online. When playing online, you are playing against people, not AI. They will try and use their surroundings to their advantage. There may be a hill you both have to rush to, there may be some trees. Who knows, but make sure you get acquainted with several maps so you know what to expect and what kind of tactics to employ.

Forests – trees are useful for several reasons. First of all, when in a wooded area you can hide your troops. This is not as easy as it was in RTW, you have to have a fairly wooded area to do it in M2TW. Second is that some units have an advantage while fighting in trees. Cavalry suffers huge penalties and is unable to charge to their full effectiveness.

Rain – Rain causes a great deal of confusion sometimes. Your visibility is limited, and your archers are less effective. Some gunner units are unable to fire in the rain, so make sure that you are well aware of the weather beforehand. If the weather is not selectable, make sure that afternoon is selected to avoid rain with the greatest chance.

Climate – Some units have a bonus while fighting in snow.

Desert – Some units, Muslim factions mostly, have a bonus in deserts.

Hills – Missile units can fire further on hills, and all units have combat bonuses while fighting downhill. Your enemy will also get tired quicker while charging up a hill. If there is a hill, you should try and acquire it as a defensive position. If your enemy is camping on a hill, try your best to gain the hill advantage by charging up one flank. Try and establish guidelines with your opponent before the battle so they don’t use cheap tactics like corner camping at the top of a hill, because that is not fun for either party.

Game Settings – Make sure that rain is not on unless your REALLY want it. Rain causes lag, and impedes several units. If the weather is not changeable, set the time of Day to Afternoon, since it is the least likely to have rain.

Faction Selection

Be well aware of the units each faction has in every era. Faction strength differs from era to era, as technology levels change from each. Pick a faction that counters your enemy’s. This is difficult especially if you are new to the game. Most factions are quite playable against one another, but it is important to outline for you what strengths each faction has so that you can differentiate for yourself what is needed to defeat them. I will give you suggestions for the best factions for each era. I cant write something for EVERY faction so I will do my best to outline what is best.

Early Era

Turkey – The Turks have long range archers, naffatun, and good mercenary cavalry. Kwarizmian cav is one of the better units for this era, and Alan mercenary cav is extremely quick. They also have horse archers you can harass people with. They do seem to lack good infantry, but if you put valour on your spear militia, and have 2-3 naffatun behind them they will rout any infantry of this era.

Byzantines – The Byzantines have possibly the best early army. They have very strong Kataphractoi, good lancers, and cheap missile. They have schiltrom spear, and good sword infantry. They also have long range Trezibond archers. Pretty similar build to the Turks but better infantry and no naffatun.

Aztecs – The Aztecs lack cavalry, but in a team game they can be devastating. Get your ally to make up for your absent cavalry. Your infantry is armor piercing, schiltrom spear, and coyote priests that raise your morale. That plus the fear you cause will route infantry and cavalry alike. You have to make sure you defend your rear since you don’t have the mobility of cav. I usually throw some schiltroms behind my line to protect from the enemy flanking me. Also watch out for ‘infballing’ where all your infantry merge into a giant ball, making it easy to surround them.

Scotland – Border horse that is possibly the best cavalry in the game (read bugs and exploits). Upgrade them with a valour, defense, and attack, and they can beat heavy cav one on one. Very cheap infantry and archer/inf hybrids that are quite good. Feudal Knights are also the best heavy cavalry for the time period.

High Era

Milan – Bugged Heavy Cav (read bugs and exploits) Famiglia Ducale are the best cavalry in the game. You can get 4-5 of them without them exceeding their value in my opinion. You also can choose from 3 types of schiltrom spears, decent infantry, and Genoese crossbowmen.

Mongols – Two types of heavy cav, one of which (Khan’s Guard) has armor piercing. Naffatun, long range Mongolian Archers, and two types of spear that are quite decent, though can’t schiltrom.

Scots – Two types of pikes (see bugs and exploits), which you can upgrade and still be able to afford 12+ of. Border horse again, Feudal and Mailed knights. Scotland is the best faction in this era due to the bugs.

Moors – Camels, Christian Guard, and two types of fast light cav; A variety of spears and cheap Sudanese tribesmen. They also have peasant crossbowmen that have long range missile, which no other peasant crossbowmen unit has.

France – Flemish Pikemen (see bugs and exploits), Noble and Chivalric Knights, Mailed Knights, and light cavalry. They have good infantry, and an assortment of overpriced archers and horse archers.

Late Era

Venice – Musketeers are a must in this era. Stradiots are a glitched unit, as they are light cav that has armor piercing and no shield. Good heavy cavalry, and an assortment of schiltrom infantry.

Milan – Musketeers, Famiglia Ducale, and Broken Lances which also exploits the shield bug.

France – Although lacking in guns, the French have Lancers which are the best cavalry in the game due to the shield bug. They also have 4 different types of pikemen, so you can make a pretty vicious army.

Moors - No long range gunpowder infantry, but they do have camel gunners which can be quite good. See Camel Gunners Section.

Holy Roman Empire – An assortment of good Heavy Cavalry, (Imperial Knights have Armor Piercing), and good infantry (Dismounted Imp Knights have Armor Piercing). A variety of pikes as well, though no muskets, only arquebusiers. Reiters are great units, see Reiters.

Spain/Portugal – Both teams have the same strengths in their musketeers and heavy cavalry. Spain has conquistadors, and dismounted conquistadors as well as tercio pikemen. Portugal is not quite as good as Spain in this era but if you need a team with muskets they have a good assortment of heavy cavalry.

Bugs and Exploits

Pikes
Pikes are extremely overpowered. Why this is I am not sure, but for 200 florins you can buy Highland pikemen that can beat most if not all infantry units, as well as annihilate cavalry. Due to their low cost, you can also purchase several of them and the cost increment won’t be inefficient.

Shield Bug
Currently any unit with a shield, no matter the size, does not have the defense attributed to it. So whatever their stat is, you minus the shield and that’s what their actual defense is. Now typically units that don’t have shields have a raised natural defense for balancing purposes so that they aren’t annihilated by units that do have shields, but because of this bug, they are instead way too powerful for their cost. So check to see if your cav has a shield or not, and then check the stats. Right now this makes Lancers, Gothic Knights, Broken Lances, Demi lancers, Scouts, Hobilars, Border Horse, and Famiglia Ducale extremely powerful, making Milan and Scotland premier faction selections on High Era.

Two Handed Bug
Infantry that use two handed weapons are unable to attack cavalry because the animation for attacking upward was neglected in the program. Try not to purchase two handed units because if they are attacked by cavalry, they are toast. The only exception for this is pikemen because they have a completely different set of animations than typical infantry.

Upgrades

Upgrades are not nearly as important as they were in RTW. The only units that really need to be upgraded are those that are bugged, because you can make them quite better than their worth, but otherwise I wouldn’t recommend it. If you have spare money because you are playing a cheap faction like Scotland, I would recommend upgrading a few valour on pikemen, because the first (only the first) valour point you add increases defense/attack by 1. Any valour on top of that is only for moral. Use your money to buy units over buying upgrades, because right now upgrades are too expensive for their value.

TACTICS

What to Choose

Cavalry is EVERYTHING.
Build your army around your cavalry. Depending on the rules in place (most clans play with 8-9 cavalry max), this should eat up around half of your budget playing on 10 000 florins. If you have more money than that, I would recommend spending around 2/3 of your budget on cavalry. You always want at least 4 units of heavy cavalry, no matter the era. Unless you are purchasing bugged units, I would recommend you don’t exceed 4 units per type, because it limits what you can spend on the rest of your army. My standard builds have 4 heavy cavalry, 4 light cavalry, and one general’s bodyguard. You don’t NEED the gen bodyguard, but it is always nice to have a few extra hitpoints on that unit. Sometimes it is nice to have 1-2 mounted crossbowmen, but if you only have horse archers to choose from I wouldn’t recommend it, they just aren’t effective enough.

Archers Currently Underpowered
Unless your opponent is just a sitting duck, don’t waste much of your budget on archers. Currently, archers don’t do nearly enough damage to armored units to justify their existence. Crossbowmen are much better, but as soon as you start shooting their army they will rush you anyways. I usually bring in 3-4 peasant crossbowmen depending on the game, sometimes it is nice to have 1 long range missile unit to force them to come to you. If you realize that you are severely out-archers, I would recommend engaging them as soon as possible. Once you meet them, their archer advantage will be useless and you now have almost 2 000 florin advantage on them.

Spears
Spears are very useful when fighting cavalry. Cavalry will win you the game, but if you manage to sneak a spear unit against their cavalry while engaged with your cav, it gives you the upper hand. Make sure when picking your units that it specifically says bonus vs cavalry, otherwise it will be a waste of money. Schiltroms are also a very usefull took. If your spears are under attack, throw them into schiltrom mode, and they will route almost any cavalry unit that is stationary. Be careful when using schiltrom because it is very open to a cavalry charge. (See Cav Charge). Sometimes I bring 4, but if you have several units that can do schiltrom I bring around 6.

Pike
In high era there are only 2 pike factions, so in team games people generally rush to grab these factions (Scotland and France). Since Scotland has exploit Border Horse they are usually the preferred pick. Since only two teams have pike units on high era, it is common courtesy not to exploit this bug by bringing in more than 5-6 pikes. On late era more factions have pikes, if not multiple pike units, so the courtesy of 5-6 pikes is not as necessary in this era.

Basic Setup

I will suggest a basic setup that applies to generally every build. You want to have your skirmishers in front, perhaps a peasant or two to soak up arrows and cav charges in front of them, generally because it doesn’t matter what loses you get from them, plus they are good at breaking cav charges. Second line, you want to have your light cavalry, or the fastest cavalry you have for that matter. This is so you can quickly fend off attacking cav or move to attack them if you feel compelled. After that you generally want your infantry because they need to be close to the line in case you need to move them around. And last you want your heavy cav, because it usually takes time to position them for a charge, so it will give you time if you are rushed.

https://img490.imageshack.us/img490/7671/layoutnf9.jpg

General Tips

Protect Your General
If he dies in the middle of a melee, your men will lose morale.

Watch for Reforming Units
Often you will have units reform behind your lines. They only have a fraction of their original morale, but you can still return them to the fight. Oftentimes your enemy will forget about them and you can sneak them around and flank or charge an unprotected infantry unit. If you have a general that can rally, use that function as often as you can.

Watch Out For Sharp Things
Don’t charge your cavalry into pikes or stakes. Make sure that you don’t accidentally hit your own pikes when you are flanking or something, because you will kill you own cavalry.

Don’t Bunch Up
If you bunch up your units into a messy ball, it not only impedes your ability to move them around, but makes it a nice pretty target for naffatun and arrows. It also enables your opponent to circle you and kill your morale.

Set Up With Your Ally
It always frustrates me when my ally sets up way out in nowheresland. Make sure you stick nice and close to your ally. It’s a team game, not two 1v1s on the same map.

If You Want To Get Better
Play with people who wear tags. Not every clan is good by any means, but look at what they do and start working on countering such maneuvers. Most clans play in the same tournaments so their tactics generally reflect one anothers. If you really want to get good, join a clan. Don’t join the first clan that you see. Talk around, look on forums. Talk to people on Ventrillo or Teamspeak. Some clans are not for everyone, so make sure you make the right choice.

Keep Your Ally Informed
Don’t do things without notifying your ally. I can’t stress this enough, you need to coordinate with your ally.

Things Not To Do

Stake/Pike Box
AKA the noob box. These do not work, guys. If your enemy outmissiles you or has naffatun, you are a sitting duck. All you have to do is collapse one side of the box and you are screwed. This is not real life, it’s a game, and this tactic does not work unless you are playing a really bad opponent.

Don’t Quit Games
If you quit games, people will remember. So don’t be a poor sport.

GAME BREAKERS

Cavalry Charges

Cavalry charges can win you the game. Remember that the longer your cav has to gain momentum, the stronger the charge will be. Also remember that for an optimal charge you must be parallel to your opponent. A perfectly employed cavalry charge will kill almost any infantry unit in a head on charge (with the exception of pikes). Elite cavalry are more effective in this case, but even units such as hobilars will be able to take out upwards of 50% of any infantry unit if the charge is done correctly, despite having a very low charge rating.

If your opponent moves his infantry without any cavalry support, you should take advantage of the situation and rush them head on. Even if a spear unit is in schiltrom, the charge effects will remain. Remember that there are charge bugs that might impede your ability to do this successfully. If your cavalry hits your own units they will lose their momentum; if you get snagged on a stray enemy unit before your cavalry hits the target they will lose momentum and might halt; if your cavalry start charging into one another it might decrease its effectiveness, so make sure to keep some room. Keep in mind that cavalry can practically negate the bonus of a charge, and it is only really effective on infantry.

Defending Cavalry Charges

There are several ways to defend against cavalry charges. The most typical way to defend your army is to have your light cavalry set up right behind your skirmish line as mentioned before. If they are charging your infantry, even the slightest contact with enemy cav will destroy the effects of the cavalry charge. A strong pike line also deters people from charging in, and you can skirmish your front lines behind the pikes if their cavalry gets too close. Stakes also deter cavalry charges, read “Stake” section.

The most cost effective way to deter cavalry charges is with peasants. Basically peasants can act as a buffer so that they will lose their momentum and only kill insignificant units. At this point you can attack enemy cav while it is stationary. A rushing tactic developed by Silent Pariya consists of a front line of peasants blocking the enemy from charging your infantry head on. These sacrificial peasants are very common, and they serve the purpose of negating a potentially dangerous cav charge, as well as being arrow fodder during an archer war.

Naphtha

Turkey, Egypt, Mongols, and Timurids have possibly the best (and most fun) unit in the game. Naffatun are potentially destructive, though they are glitchy and have to be used with utmost care. You should practice with Naffatun before you use them online; although they are extremely powerful, they are a bit trickier to use. Be aware of their range, and position them safely behind infantry that will hold for a long time. There are some things you should be aware of when using Naffatun. The skirmish mode along with their range often makes them run away before they can shoot, so it is best to have skirmish off and position them somewhere that is well defended. If your Naffatun are engaged, even by one unit, they will halt throwing. Keep an eye on the unit cards during the game and make sure that the firing icon is on and not the melee icon. Naphtha causes a huge morale penalty, as well as can inflict a great deal of damage. It is best of target the most unit-dense areas so that more units are affected by the moral penalty. Sometimes you can chain rout several infantry units in a few volleys.

The best way to defeat a person with Naffatun is to try and avoid them. If you can’t avoid the naphtha, try and kill them with missiles. Otherwise, you should try and get some units to get them in melee, otherwise they will do a huge amount of damage to you. I played a game last night where I killed 181 soldiers with one unit of naphtha because my opponent took a stubbornly defensive position and refused to move. If you see infantry bunched up and stationary, it might be a good time to attack.

Pikes

Pikes are extremely cheap and can be purchased overtop of the incrementing florins (over 4 units), without too much of a penalty. Pikes are somewhat glitched, and can beat almost any infantry head on, and certainly any cav. It is best in a 3v3 to have your center player take a pike heavy faction forcing your opponent onto one of the two flanks. You can also use pikes to protect Naffatun. Remember that certain pike units have poor morale, so it might be a good idea to put some valour on them so they will hold the line. Pikes will hold for a very long time even if they lose the melee. Remember to take off Guard mode so your pikes actually attack, they will win more often then not, but if they are just meant to hold the spot while naffatun do their thing, guard mode is better.

Charge/Naffatun/Pike Example Video

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QERXxMK3JdA

Elephants

Elephants are so good that even noobs can use them. The trick with elephants is to not let them get surrounded, or hit by art. Otherwise they are pretty much amazing in every regard and can win you the game almost every time. You have to remember that elephants (although being ridiculous) cannot remain static or else they are very vulnerable.

Elephants have strange hit boxes. You will notice that when you attack elephants, sometimes your players aim for the people in the little box on top of the elephant. This is because there are several units, so the 2-3 people sitting in the elephant have an equal chance of being attacked as the elephant itself. You might say, well…I just want the elephant to die? But that isn’t the case. If you look closely you will see javelins being thrown at the people on top, flying well over the elephant even if it is right in front of you.

The best way to use elephants is to keep them running. Do not let cavalry hit them on any flank, because it may wreck their morale. Keep eles away from pikes, and charge down infantry lines while they are engaged. See Picture Below. Also, you can charge into the side of a cavalry scrum and the morale penalty will route almost everything. Elephants may not end up with a whole lot of kills at the end of the game, but the morale penalty they cause is tremendous. On top of their fear causing, the gunpowder snipers on top cause fear as well, something they will have to fix in the patch, because at the moment it is buggy overkill on the morale.

So how do you kill these menaces?

The best way is to hit them with artillery, though this is often inaccurate. Rocket Launchers are probably the best anti-ele gun, because they shoot randomly in many many shots. Each shot has a very high attack rate, so it will take down any elephant immediately or maybe in 2 shots. And since elephants are so large it makes the random shooting all the better. Also, the fire scares the elephants just like fire art does, so it will make them rout. Naffatun have the same effect on elephants, though you have to be really close to them. Keep your elephants well away from Naphtha, especially if you bring your own as the timurids. Anything that is armor piercing has a good chance of wearing down the elephants hit points. Fire arrows seem to be ineffective, unlike RTW where they were the best bet. Javcav are a good choice because they are very fast, armor piercing, and multiple shots. But you have to make sure you don’t get too close to them or else the morale penalty will rout you (jav cav usually have pretty bad morale.)

You can also scare them with huge numbers. Just like anything, Eles can be scared by being surrounded and outnumbered so remember never to let your eles just run at the enemy unsupported (best to use cavalry behind them.)

Elephants and stakes? Try it yourself…it’s a huge bug that I recently told CA about that apparently was unknown to them. Elephants’ hit boxes are so large that the stake graphics don’t know what to do, so they simply disappear without any effect whatsoever. VANISH! As if somebody just erased them in paint!

Den made a video showing ways to kill elephants. Remember that these elephants are static, but it gets the point across neveretheless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v6flcebPns

Camels

Although their stats don’t look like anything spectacular, Camels have a crucial role in the Moors and Egyptian army builds. Remember that cavalry is the most important element of the game, so you have to start thinking of ways to get rid of elephants. Well camels scare horses! I try my best not to use camels as line-holding cavalry. Instead I try my best to flank the enemy, or wait for their numbers to drop a little bit them reinforce my line. With their morale already wavering, the presence of a smelly lumpbacked camel will make them route. Sometimes it is good to put a valour on camels because they tend to rout easy, but nevertheless, throw 2-4 camels into your Moors and Egyptian builds and you wont regret it, just remember to use them as reserves. Use Christian Guard or Mamluks for that.

Muskets, Camel Gunners, Reiters

Position your muskets in 2 lines; the front line is the only line that fires. If you can handle it, put them on loose formation as well so that they will take fewer casualties in an archer war. Muskets have incredible range, and if both teams position units at the very front of the deployment zone, you can reach your opponent right when the game starts. Muskets cause a morale penalty, and have a ridiculously high rate of attack. For 540 Florins they are a necessity on high money games. Remember that 540 florin musketeers can kill as much as the 900 florin Cossack and Janissary Musketeers, so don’t expect an edge in the archer war because your spent twice as much. Once the attack rate is as high as Musketeers (and armor piercing), it doesn’t really impact the outcome all that much.

One thing to note, is that Guns can fire through your own units without killing them as arrows do, so don’t be afraid to have a line of muskets firing behind your infantry.

Camel Gunners are basically musketeers on camelback. Remember that they are fewer in numbers than musketeers and more expensive, so don’t expect them to win a fight 1v1 with musketeers. Instead, position them on the flanks to harass enemy cavalry. Once their ammunition is exhausted, they are still quite good in melee and cause fear to their opponents.

Unlike the Camel Gunners, Reiters run around pistoling people. The attack rate on Reiters is ridiculously high, and they will basically beat any cavalry if you keep them on skirmish. Since heavy cavalry cannot catch them, they will be gunned down before any casualties are inflicted. I like to position Reiters right behind my infantry in the melee causing fear (and damage) to the enemy melee units. But if you see an opening and you can flank your opponent (don’t engage melee, just sit them behind) you get the flanking bonus+huge damage (23 on their missile?)+fear. This will route anything within seconds. Again reiters are a bit trickier to use, but even a new player can throw these on skirmish and harass heavy cavalry, infantry, anything basically.

Artillery

As much fun as it is, Artillery isn’t the best choice for online play. Long range projectiles are simply too inaccurate and too expensive.

If you must use artillery, use the short range guns like ribaults and rocket launchers. Although the range is poor, they will cause much more destruction than the longer range artillery. You have to wait for the opportune moment when your opponent has his units bunched up, then you can unload a volley. Remember not to have your own infantry in front of your art, because they will kill indiscriminately.

If your enemy has artillery like this, the best way to get around it is to move bag and forth in a zig-zag fashion. Rocket Launchers take time to target and fire, so if you keep moving out of its field of vision, than it will have to readjust and target again.

Trebuchets are quite fun, since you can hurl cows at your opponent. I don’t know what the exact penalty is for poisoning your opponent with cows, but it seems rather insignificant. In a tight battle, maybe, but this one is up to your own discretion, whether your want to spend 400 florins to throw rotten McDonalds at your opponent.

Stakes

Stakes are probably one of the most inefficiently used weapons by new players. Usually people box themselves in, which is the opposite of what you want to do. Try starting your longbowmen on the flank and create a protective wall from cavalry. With superior range, you should be able to draw your opponent in, and because there is a stake wall, you don’t have to worry about defending that side against cavalry aggression. At the same time you can safely move your cav through the stakes without harm and attack that flank which might be unprotected.

If you decide to use stakes on your front line, be prepared to skirmish back behind them very fast, because if you use your own cavalry to repel the attacker, you will have to march all the way around the stakes giving your opponent ample time to strike again.

Remember that if you position your stakes in the front, it could be very dangerous. If you have routing cavalry, the AI isn’t designed for them to find a path around the stakes, instead they will impale themselves and when they reform (if they reform) they will have suffered huge losses. Always be aware of your stake placement, because sometimes in the heat of battle you simply forget to see them, (especially on graphic intense landscapes), and you mistakenly charge into them.

Man thats awesome, respect for writing that **** up bro.. must have taken a long time. 1.2 has changed the game alot though, lots of the tactics people keep using will get them killed, 2 handers working and all, I played 1.2 quite alot online and as far as I can tell its going to turn this game around for the better. But again a whole lotta respect for writing that up. You gonna post it on the ccs forums?

I'll do another one for 1.2 when the patch is released, or a few weeks after so I cant find the new exploits, but I was bored and didn't feel like working. Certain things wont need to be changed, but I will update accordingly.

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Very nice melon.

One thing I'll just through in there about Shiltrom. Be careful not to commit your spears into shriltrom too early. Otherwise opponents may simply manuever around them and have a much better chance of winning the cavalry battle and then most likely the game.

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CA even admitted that pikes perform above their value, and they are correcting them in the next patch. The problem with schiltroms is that they can be wiped out witha cav charge, and if you have 16 of them, that only leaves you with 4 cav to defend from a charge. Also, they still are affected by the surrounding penalty, they just arent affected by the flank penalty.

This guide is meant to show people what is powerful in MP, since they would be unaware of it otherwise. It is still up to the hosts to determine what rules they want, and I encourage the use oftournament standards (or less) for max cav.

Pikes are not supposed to be the same as hoplites. They are a spearwall similar to spear warband of RTW Germannia. In the Scotland case they are militia units and for 200 they should not perform as well as they do.

Gj Ym M8,

Lots of bad advice.

Schiltroms do not work on 1.1 lol... what you talking about mech?

Pikes are strong because other units suffer from the shield bug, thats all..

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correct me if im wrong but isnt this kinda favoritism to cavalry over infantry and would encourage the use of cav exploitation which is already bad enough as it is?

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YM has made a guide thats unique, why? Because it actually tells people how to play the game, how to improve at the game. For too long people have not be up front about the fact they use these exploits, I mean it took ages in BI for people to actually even mention the pillia aim trick. So ye, this isn't one of these idealistic guides that suggest balance armies that won't actually help. I respect ym alot for doing this.

gg ym

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LMAO!!!!!

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agree wholeheartily.

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I would be willing to bet money Melon would destroy you in a game, so stop acting as if you know it all, it is a common trait of idiots on this forum, be glad someone who actually knows how to play the game, rather than spends time criticising on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Colossus

LMAO!!!!!



I would be willing to bet money Melon would destroy you in a game, so stop acting as if you know it all, it is a common trait of idiots on this forum, be glad someone who actually knows how to play the game, rather than spends time criticising on this forum.

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+1

u2 need to play some proper opposition, before you start critizising someone who has a proven track record of actually being able to play tw games against opposition thats remotely compitent.

Btw Mad Cat you still haven't told me your in-game name so i can look for oyu in the lobby:whip:

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Originally Posted by mad cat mech

agree wholeheartily.

@ yellowmelon

you contradict yourself. just answer me one question. why under bugs and exploits did you not mention cavalry?

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Your Answer:

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Shield Bug
Currently any unit with a shield, no matter the size, does not have the defense attributed to it. So whatever their stat is, you minus the shield and that’s what their actual defense is. Now typically units that don’t have shields have a raised natural defense for balancing purposes so that they aren’t annihilated by units that do have shields, but because of this bug, they are instead way too powerful for their cost. So check to see if your cav has a shield or not, and then check the stats. Right now this makes Lancers, Gothic Knights, Broken Lances, Demi lancers, Scouts, Hobilars, Border Horse, and Famiglia Ducale extremely powerful, making Milan and Scotland premier faction selections on High Era.

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Two Handed Bug
Infantry that use two handed weapons are unable to attack cavalry because the animation for attacking upward was neglected in the program. Try not to purchase two handed units because if they are attacked by cavalry, they are toast. The only exception for this is pikemen because they have a completely different set of animations than typical infantry.

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Scotland – Border horse that is possibly the best cavalry in the game (read bugs and exploits). Upgrade them with a valour, defense, and attack, and they can beat heavy cav one on one. Very cheap infantry and archer/inf hybrids that are quite good. Feudal Knights are also the best heavy cavalry for the time period.

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Milan – Bugged Heavy Cav (read bugs and exploits) Famiglia Ducale are the best cavalry in the game. You can get 4-5 of them without them exceeding their value in my opinion. You also can choose from 3 types of schiltrom spears, decent infantry, and Genoese crossbowmen.

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Venice – Musketeers are a must in this era. Stradiots are a glitched unit, as they are light cav that has armor piercing and no shield. Good heavy cavalry, and an assortment of schiltrom infantry.

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Cavalry is EVERYTHING.
Build your army around your cavalry. Depending on the rules in place (most clans play with 8-9 cavalry max), this should eat up around half of your budget playing on 10 000 florins. If you have more money than that, I would recommend spending around 2/3 of your budget on cavalry. You always want at least 4 units of heavy cavalry, no matter the era. Unless you are purchasing bugged units, I would recommend you don’t exceed 4 units per type, because it limits what you can spend on the rest of your army. My standard builds have 4 heavy cavalry, 4 light cavalry, and one general’s bodyguard. You don’t NEED the gen bodyguard, but it is always nice to have a few extra hitpoints on that unit. Sometimes it is nice to have 1-2 mounted crossbowmen, but if you only have horse archers to choose from I wouldn’t recommend it, they just aren’t effective enough.

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Regarding your comment to Jesus:

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@jesus

try superimposing a an all army stack of 16 papal states spears units. four of each and add as much in armor upgrades as you can and pit them up against an all cav army. you will see what i am talking about. and they can own against missile light combined arms armies as well.

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Cavalry charges can win you the game. Remember that the longer your cav has to gain momentum, the stronger the charge will be. Also remember that for an optimal charge you must be parallel to your opponent. A perfectly employed cavalry charge will kill almost any infantry unit in a head on charge (with the exception of pikes). Elite cavalry are more effective in this case, but even units such as hobilars will be able to take out upwards of 50% of any infantry unit if the charge is done correctly, despite having a very low charge rating.

If your opponent moves his infantry without any cavalry support, you should take advantage of the situation and rush them head on. Even if a spear unit is in schiltrom, the charge effects will remain. Remember that there are charge bugs that might impede your ability to do this successfully. If your cavalry hits your own units they will lose their momentum; if you get snagged on a stray enemy unit before your cavalry hits the target they will lose momentum and might halt; if your cavalry start charging into one another it might decrease its effectiveness, so make sure to keep some room. Keep in mind that cavalry can practically negate the bonus of a charge, and it is only really effective on infantry.

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You suggest an army that isnt fiscally efficient, and is not mobile enough.

Owned!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by -Silent-Someguy

Lots of bad advice.

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Alot of what I posted are the same techniques that Silent ASSassins employ. You are saying that your own clan has bad tactics?

Take your flamewar somewhere else.

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oh ffs

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make all the threats you want about who can beat who. you are promoting people to use cav exploits because you have mastered cav exploits and you win your games through them.

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Hop out of elitevetutopiaville for a sec, cav gwnts.This game is exploit or be exploited. Get over it.

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for one i am openly criticizing your advice based on the issue that is an attempt to coincide with "your mp communities" rules and not necessarily what others feel about the game.

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Where did I say this? I usually play no art/no ele, yet I gave advice how to use them.

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again you did not answer the question. why didnt you list cav in the bug and exploits list?

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I didn't make a cav category if that is what you are after. I am trying to make a guide for beginners, and 'pulling through' isnt exactly the best thing for a newbie to do because it is very situational. If you looked at the quotes I gave you cav quite often as being bugged.

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the only units that can even have a decent change in a competent defensive offensive ability against horses are pikes. you limit pikes to 5 but you allow 9 cav. that seems a bit hypocritical to me and to others. the name of the game is balance. when half your army is cavalry and you keep browbeating anyone who wants to use any form of stabilizing infantry is a double standard in my book.

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The reason why pikes are frowned upon is because they are so overpowered. Infantry cannot stand up to them for long unless you are using naffatun, this isnt just because cavalry can't beat them. For example on high era, only scotland and france have pikes, if you have two people spam pikes on the same team. The price of pikes is unreasonable, since you can take an army of 20 pikes (see Bottoms pikespam army). This might not be the most effective army by itself, but put it in the center on a 3v3 and it makes it almost impossible for you to route it unless you have three naffatun armies.

I admit the 5 pike max was meant to be about high era, I will have to change that. On late era with gunpowder there are more ways to route pikes than naffatun exlusively. On late you have more factions that have 1 if not multiple pikes to select from.

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make all the threats you want about who can beat who. you are promoting people to use cav exploits because you have mastered cav exploits and you win your games through them.

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Let's make it clear, I have not threatened anyone. I will point you to this quotation in a reply I already made regarding cavalry spam:

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This guide is meant to show people what is powerful in MP, since they would be unaware of it otherwise. It is still up to the hosts to determine what rules they want, and I encourage the use oftournament standards (or less) for max cav.

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get someone who finds a way to counter uber cavalry and it tees you guys off.

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Quite the opposite. I adapt my tactics all the time. I use at least 4 schiltroms ever game I play. I have also worked with Palamedes who works for Creative Assembly to change cavalry in the 1.2 patch, which I am led to believe will make charges on spear units not as effective, static cavalry more vulnerable, and only elite cavalry will have super charges.

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you say that i and silent someone are trying to flame this thread. i see it as a way to reprimand someone who is trying to manipulate the community using his reputation and clout so he can compete with others on his terms.

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That's quite the wild accusation. You think I would spend a few hours writing a guide so that people would play by my rules, by my standards, so that I can have an advantage? I am offended; I am discussing my points with you and you resort to accusations I am being selfish in writing a guide for other people to help them learn the game?

I made this guide for people who are making the transition from Single Player to Multi Player. I remember how difficult it was when I made the transition, and you dont know how many times I have played against newbies who simply had no idea what they were doing. They leave their cavalry open to frontal charges, they dont protect their flanks, they dont use pikes (remember aside from me suggesting a 5 max on pikes I did promote them everywhere else), and other things I hoped to remedy with this guide.

I didnt say you were flaming the thread, I was quoting Silent on this matter. There have been arguments on the CCS forums, and Silent found this guide through a link I posted there. I doubt he even read the article.

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the silents used cav exploits at first because they amongst some of us others discovered this early on but later they were the first to begin limiting cav units in battles. im no great fan of the silents but they are competant and efficient players.

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Silents were the first clan to scrap using archers and make purely rush armies. They are responsible for people bringing 1-2 archers a game. Im not saying this negatively, since they were the first to realize archers played a small role in this game, but I disagree with what you say about them limiting their cavalry. When the CCS was discussing rules, they fought fervently to have no cavalry max. Only recently has this rule been ammended.

They are elite players, I will not argue that.

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and they have generally little trouble taking down pike armies. of that i will vouch personally.

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When I used a 12 pike build in the Gamespot semifinals DemoK complained that I used an exploited army. This coming right from the people you are praising. The most likely reason they beat your pike army is because you used it ineffectually.

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apparently you have more information than the rest of us do. as far as i know the only acknowledgment has been made that they do switch to swords too early, and thats unofficial.

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Palamedes is the Brethren clan leader and while playing test games with us he recorded how overpowered pikes are. This was months ago, and he informed us in a discussion on ventrillo that they are being changed. So yes, I do have more information than you.

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"also im very competant with the pike armies and i was only beaten once by a silent. i just used that for drama 8)"


You got brown on your nose.

"im one of those who pioneered one of the more devestating pike formations in mp. for that those who know me respect me."

lmao

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Your nose is brownest mad cat mech.

You are not doing yourself or anyone else any good by trashing Melon's hard work to help out begining players. I wont dispute that you may have been the one who "pioneered" one of the most devestaing pike formations as there is really no way to tell for sure. Although in my opinion it is highly unlikely. Maybe you wouldn't mind joining over at the CCS forums and sharing your great wisdom with us. Just off hand, what is your in game name?

apologies everyone if you felt i flamed the thread. i was only wanting some dialogue as to why yellow melon felt that pikes were a greater threat to gameplay than cavalry.

i do not believe limiting pikes to 5 is right in cwc games. you may feel differently and thats ok i suppose.


perhaps i didnt express this opinion in the best way.

I didnt say it was all bad advice, I said alot was. Learn to take critisicm, you're always dishing it out on the CCS forums about how the .org sucks.

If there is bad advice, state your argument, don't just post stating it's bad.

And thus my point proven that the total war community can even turn a simple guide thread into some form of argument.

Been there done that blah blah blah ~;)


On a more serious note please keeep it calm guys debate all you want just keep it clean.


Tib

And thus my point proven that the total war community can even turn a simple guide thread into some form of argument.

Been there done that blah blah blah ~;)


On a more serious note please keeep it calm guys debate all you want just keep it clean.


Tib

Tib once ate 25 orios all at once :o

Thats a ban I think Monarch, how dare you disrespect the wonderful .org, p.s., how are we meant to flame if all mad cats posts are edited, .org style wasnt even upheld by putting the stupid flower there....

P.S. If anyone took my post seriously then you are more stupid than half the discussions on this forum.

Excellent post Melon, Very helpfull for all players, for the new ones to start somewere ,and the old ones to refresh the principles for playing it right .
It is brave of you to open the box of know-how.


cc.
The way I see it ,You look better and better I had a misconseption about you after I looked for first time your signature Avatar:).
I was shocked.

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Originally Posted by -Silent-Someguy

I didnt say it was all bad advice, I said alot was. Learn to take critisicm, you're always dishing it out on the CCS forums about how the .org sucks.

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Considering the source on the org opinion~:flirt: . As Melon suggested, your opinion doesn't carry much weight without some detail to why you believe the advice is bad. Differences of opinion are welcome, however disrespect is not.

I can happily give you suggestions as how to improve the .org without being sarcastic if you want.

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Originally Posted by Colossus

I can happily give you suggestions as how to improve the .org without being sarcastic if you want.

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We have the Watchtower for that so feel free to to post suggestions: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26


CBR

Yay less than a week after I finish the guide 1.2 is out! My predictions failed me! Oh well, time to test and rewrite this behemoth. :dizzy2:

Thanks CBR I was going to suggest that.
Good job Melon, Murphy's Law strikes again and the new patch is here. I hope it addresses most of the issues that bung up game-play for the MP crowd, you guys deserve a break.

overall good job nice movies

For all those who are a bit astonished when reading this lines (1.2 patch is official released):
http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?p...l&nav=/us/7/3/

Ok, let's see how MTW 2 feels now.

P.S. Melon you are on my list. :charge: :duel: ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Aonar

For all those who are a bit astonished when reading this lines (1.2 patch is official released):
http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?p...l&nav=/us/7/3/

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That link is about patch for MTW/VI and the Gold edition?


CBR

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Originally Posted by Goalie

Your nose is brownest mad cat mech.

You are not doing yourself or anyone else any good by trashing Melon's hard work to help out begining players. I wont dispute that you may have been the one who "pioneered" one of the most devestaing pike formations as there is really no way to tell for sure. Although in my opinion it is highly unlikely. Maybe you wouldn't mind joining over at the CCS forums and sharing your great wisdom with us. Just off hand, what is your in game name?

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Mad Cat Mech's ... unique writing style, and the picture in his profile, suggest he is the same as Hunter_Hornet.

I don't think I've ever had the pleasure of "meeting" you online or in battle YellowMelon, but I have noticed your posts over the last couple of years at the various clan forums. Nice job on your guide. Even though I don't play online anymore, I still enjoy popping in and reading about what's going on when I have a bit of down time, particularly when it's well-organized and written, and presented with the intent of adding value.

***

Every once in a while I peek into this forum to see what's being argued. Each time I have lately, I confirm my decision not to buy M2TW or play online anymore--and it has little to do with the game itself. Now that I have a life again, and spend very little time playing games online, I chuckle at how I got sucked into all of this completely insignificant child's play. I see the posturing and blustering, and can't help but laugh. Part of that laugh is at my former self--I behaved in similar fashion from time to time in the past, caught up in the MP gang thing. How silly. I pity those who, like I did once, invest honest time and energy delivering useful information and tools to an audience rife with sphincters. But I respect those who manage to maintain their dignity and decorum here at the Org, despite being constantly bashed. Cheers to you folks. To the rest of you--when you find yourselves in a Real Life Sucks! situation, listen closely and you might hear me laughing. What comes around goes around. Heh, I know that just as well as anyone.

There was a time when I thoroughly enjoyed TW MP games ... and the majority of the MP folks I played with regularly. That time is gone, and I seriously doubt it will ever be like it was. Oh well, all things end. Onward, to new things.

ah! masamune nice to hear from you. always enjoyed those conversations on the mtw/vi lobby. you taught me quite a bit to get me started in playing on mtw/vi

of course it took me a while to find out what happened to you i hope one day our paths might cross again.

cheers m8

in response to someone else suggesting i go over to ccs to share my wisdom. i would prefer not to because the atmosphere is not as regulated there as it is here and tend to get somewhat offended when involved in profane discussions. im more a freelancer and i learn a lot of my tactics on my own. some work some dont. its all for fun win or lose. in my book everyone wins if a game is fought in a good spirit.

i hope one day to make ascension into the ranks of elmos standards and become a junior router expert. hopefully im quickly on my way to becoming one. it is often times funner being a punching bag than it is being the one to do the punching.

Ok, try with this one.
http://www.gamershell.com/download_19011.shtml

Doesnt Masamune's post fit under this category. :bow:

Hi there! Hadn't played Total War for ages, but then I bought Medieval 2.

I've been busy conquering the world in the campaign so here's another singleplayer Total War fan who's transforming to Multiplayer. I really liked your guide, you brought up stuff I haven't even thought of. Playing against the AI is so much different. Any dramatic changes in the new (huge) patch? :book:


Glad to see my account is still here, I made this like ages ago during RTW or something like that. :beam:

Yes the new patch has made this guide mostly worthless, but I'll have a new one up in the next few weeks...hopefully =D

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Originally Posted by YellowMelon

Yes the new patch has made this guide mostly worthless, but I'll have a new one up in the next few weeks...hopefully =D

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Or I can write one for you........ :laugh4:

Well done Melon. It's wasted here in this forum, but you did a nice job. You should post the new one at the MMM TW MP community forum, where it will get the attention it deserves.

Once again, very well done.

I am back Mel! if u need me to help u with ure next edition ill gladly do my best :P

As Requested, this shall be sticked. :yes: :clown: :egypt: :clown:

well done Yellow, I just found this. Man no wonder your armies were always saving me when we played randoms games. good post

This is for 1.1, has little to no applicability any more :(