What to do with religion?

Religion is a major part of WH just as it is in MTW2. With only the slight difference that the devil actually does exist...and has an army...and it's comming right at you.

So how do you guys feel about squeezing WH religions into MTW2?

It's obvious that the creators of Warhammer made this translation: Church of Sigmar = Catholic church and The Supreme Patriarch = The Pope.

The problem is that the only major faction that is Sigmarite is the Empire. Bretonnians worship "The Lady of the Lake". In fact, each faction in WH has their own religion which removes the whole religion dynamic we've got in MTW2.

I suggest that we keep the system but use it for something else.

We could call it "Cultural loyalty"? Or just "Culture". Which is the culture the population are most loyal to. We could devide all the factions into various cultural groups. Where Pagan = non faction culture loyalty, and heretics represent level of corruption to Chaos.

How many religions is the hard coded limit in MTW2?
Thoughts on this?

Right then, I have ideas on this (as usual). Ahem…

Religion can replace the ‘winds of magic’. These, in warhammer, carry the magical power of the world throughout it. They wax and wane and the amount of, for example, Chaos worshippers in an area can unbalance the winds in that area, as could the amount of any other worshippers.

The first one, heretics, can show the power of Chaos is strong in an area. This would be for Chaos, Undead and Dark Elves, who have similar dark magic based around the Lore of Death. The fact that these evil races are ‘heretics’ fits in well with…

Catholicism. This should be the religion of The Empire, Kislev, Brettonia, Tilea, Estalia and the Border Princes. It represents the power of the Good Gods, who oppose the powers of Chaos. This would include Sigmar, Ulric and the Lady of the Lake, but also lesser deities such as Morr or Myrmidia. Generally, however, all these gods are good, and strive to destroy Chaos. Their followers largely accept one another and get along, so they can be one ‘religion’. The Pope, as there isn’t one, can be replaced by a ‘Will of the Gods’, which reflects the general opinion of Gods of Order to destroy Chaos and Paganism, which I’ll talk about in a second.

Othodox should represent ‘Old Magic’, and be used by Dwarfs (although they don’t really have magic, they’ll still affect it, and they still worship gods), wood and high elves and the lizardmen. Albion as well, should it ever be included. This represents the magic of elder races which stems from the same roots, the teachings of the Old Ones, and so will be similar in nature, as well as still being an enemy of the heretics (Chaos).

Paganism, last of all, should be orcs and goblins, representing the Waaagh! energy of the green hordes.

The mtw2 approach to religion doesnt fit the warhammer world. It'll have to be sorted out but some of it just wont work. The pope is an actual ingame charachter with his own faction, having him represent the will of the gods isnt going to work. Which means crusades are out as well. I think you guys are looking at this from a how can we adapt warhammer into the mtw2 engine rather than adapt the mtw engine to warhammer, those parts of the original game that dont fit, we can leave out if possible.

The Pope has got to go.....too much of a problem having him in a mod!

There also comes a whole bunch of issues around the way a Pope impacts on a game that just don't fit. I don't want a Pope giving out missions, calling crusades or excommunicating factions. Just won't fit.

The religious aspects of the game such as Heretics, can be used to give the feel we need, but we will have to be very careful how we put this forward. I would rather have a complete set of mutually hostile factions with no religous ties than have something that imposes limitations purely by triggering unwanted game reactions.

We must, at all times, remember the Game Engine. We want to put the recreate teh Warhammer world in MTW2, but by doing so, we must abide by the restrictions of the game engine.

More important than religion will be setting some parameters to the way races react and ally with each other. The rest is just fluff.

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Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

The problem is that the only major faction that is Sigmarite is the Empire. Bretonnians worship "The Lady of the Lake". In fact, each faction in WH has their own religion which removes the whole religion dynamic we've got in MTW2.

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AFAIK, most human nations worship the same gods. Sigmar, the Lady of the Lake and the various kislevite gods are just local oddities (the lady of the lake, for example, is mainly worshiped by knights and nobles). As such, the Sigmarite cult is not a religion as a whole, but rather a part of the human polytheist pantheon. Tileans probably have the same religion aswell.

Furthermore, each faction doesn't have its own religion IMO. The Horned Rat is a former Chaos God, just like the Chaos Dwarves' God (who, if I recall correctly, was even more of a powerful demon than a real god).
I think Wood Elves and High Elves worship the same gods aswell, and probably so do the Dark Elves (but in their own flawed version, and not forgetting the various slaaneshi cults established there).

Game-wise, I haven't played MTW2, and as such, I have no idea how the religions are taken into account, and what's their effect on the game. I don't know aswell if there's a limit in the number of religions one can have in game (IIRC, RTW allowed us to add more religions, but those had no effect on un/happiness).

As I said above, most of the human gods are wide spread. Ulric, Sigmar and the Lady are just the three biggest ones. Every human realm in the Old World, bar the far North (ie the Chaos guys) and Albion, worships the same set of gods.

I must admit elves aren't my strong point, so I can't comment too much on their gods. However, I believe all three have different gods.

The Horned Rat is not a former Chaos God. The four Chaos Gods are a constant. New ones don't arise, and the old ones don't die off. The Horned Rat could only be a very powerful daemon, though in reality the most powerful daemons are practically gods anyway. It's not really a major point.

There is no limit to the number of religions you can have but adding a lot of religions will cause problems because there will be no unifying religion in a settlement causing a lot of religious unrest. Bob the Spork's idea is a good way to limit the number of religions while being in line with the Warhammer universe.

I have not tried to remove religion from the game but it will probably be difficult, since it is a major part of it. Though it should be easier to remove the Pope by cutting out the Papal States and making no faction under the Pope's influence.

Also no matter what religion a faction is their priests can become heretics (even it their religion is heresy).

I don't think religion is a key element of hte mod, to be honest.

In the vanilla game, you have 'christian' and you have 'muslim' and they are naturally oposed to each other. Christian faction attacks christian faction, and the Pope gets annoyed. Crusades and Jihad's are called on the opposite sides territories.

The need for religion to control or influence a city is not relevant to a situation where an entirely different species takes over a city. I can't imagine 'religous unrest' being a factor in an Empire city being overrun by Skaven.....Oooohhh...you refuse to worship the Horned Rat ... oh..thats because we killed and ate you all.

Maybe we should rename it cultural unrest and it could be caused by a different culture occupying your city eg Skaven in Empire cities.

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Originally Posted by uanime5

Maybe we should rename it cultural unrest and it could be caused by a different culture occupying your city eg Skaven in Empire cities.

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Which takes us back to my original suggestion.

If religions are indeed added as religions themselves, I think localizing the religions IS a good thing. Though the Empire does have a pantheon of gods, it is very different from what the Bretonnians believe. The Tileans may follow the imperial pantheon, being a former state. The Empire however is overwhelmingly Sigmarite. Sigmar Heldenhammer, the warrior-god, was born under the two-tailed comet, and united the tribes in the area which is now known as the Empire. He essentially founded it - think Charlemagne, except deified. The temple of Sigmar is massive, and Sigmar is THE God of the Empire - though there are a few lesser worshipped deities, their worship can be compared to the worship of saints in christianity. One exception of course is the city of Middenheim, which worships the god Ulric, however this is the only place where another god is worshiped more than Sigmar within the Empire. Even the province of Middenland, (Middenheim being the capitol) is primarily Sigmarite.

Anyway, that's my spiel on Imperial worship.

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Originally Posted by Bob the Spork

The Horned Rat is not a former Chaos God. The four Chaos Gods are a constant. New ones don't arise, and the old ones don't die off. The Horned Rat could only be a very powerful daemon, though in reality the most powerful daemons are practically gods anyway. It's not really a major point.

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The god of the Chaos Dwarves (Hashut) IIRC, is a former Khornate deamon who betrayed his master and atteined godhood.
There's also Malal, the Outcast, a major chaos god whose main aim is to destroy Chaos.

I don't recall their names, but there's also a Chaos God who was introduced in a WFRP novel, and who represents atheism and agnosticism. There's also a former Everchosen who, after gaining deamonhood, tried to attein godhood (that would me it is at least possible).

Chaos God a created by other races feelings and ideas. Although GW fluff primarly stick to the 4 major ones and a few minor gods, I think we can basically say there's potentially a crapload of chaos god. It's just that some of them aren't worshiped, disappeared or are just unknown.

I'd like to point out that its just one of several theories that Hashut is a Khornate Daemon who rebelled against Khorne. To my knowledge there is no official fluff from GW regarding it.

Second Malal is not possible to include. GW don't use him, and indeed don't have the IP rights to him. And since we're making a fan product of the GW universe, I doubt that we can include him.

The former Everchosen of whom you speak would probably be Be'lakor, who however wasn't the first Everchosen, but indeed the first Daemon Prince. Also I am unsure if any Everchosen have ever manage to reach Daemonhood, they have all to my knowledge been destroyed by a Champion of Light.

A slight modification to Bob The Spocks idea of using the Winds of Magic. Its distressing to lump so many factions together arbitarily, but impossible otherwise. If you take out the Will of the Gods concept, I think your idea fits into the game world the best, considering the extreme limitations of 4-5 religions.

1) Death Magic (Heretic): Undead, Skaven, Dark Elves, Chaos (Can the Heretic religion be made playbale?)

2) High or Old Magic (Orthodox): Dwarf, wood elves, high elves, lizardmen

3) Light or Bright Magic (Catholicism) The Empire, Kislev, Brettonia, Tilea, Estalia

4) Waaagh (Islam): Orcs and Goblins (Islam will allow the Orcs to perform "Waaaghh" Jihads on other races)

5) Paganism: Tomb King (What do these guys name their magic?)

How about:

Orks: Gork'n'Mork (These to ork gods have different meanings, but no one sure which one is which, Most say gork will hit mork really hard, the mork hits gorks when he is not looking, or the otherway round) should be aloud to do WAAAGH, jihad style,

Empire: Imperial, (Generally for all the Imperial gods, including sigmar)

Bretonnia: not sure, Various heros and the lady of lake? not sure...

Choas: Each of the gods, might be able to call a sort of crusade on the main empire city... (4 different temples for each of the gods allowing different units for each temple)

Lizard men: Old ones

Not to sure about the others...

Aye so we'll have orc imams wandering about trying to convert people :no:

Would it not be possible to mod-out the ability of Imans by simple not making any building capable to train them?

Edit: Anyway, information on the maximum of hard-coded religions would indeed be useful.

Yeah there should be no preist agents... the campain would be sort of mucked up.

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1) Death Magic (Heretic): Undead, Skaven, Dark Elves, Chaos (Can the Heretic religion be made playbale?)

2) High or Old Magic (Orthodox): Dwarf, wood elves, high elves, lizardmen

3) Light or Bright Magic (Catholicism) The Empire, Kislev, Brettonia, Tilea, Estalia

4) Waaagh (Islam): Orcs and Goblins (Islam will allow the Orcs to perform "Waaaghh" Jihads on other races)

5) Paganism: Tomb King (What do these guys name their magic?)

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An alternative could be:

1) Chaotic: Norse, Kurgan, Beastmen, Skaven, Chaos Dwarfs, Druchii(alot of people will get angry, but unless we want to play on the conflict between the cult of Khaine and the cult of pleasure it should be ok).
2) Old Gods: same as in the post above mentioned above
3) Humanoid: same as mentioned in the post above
4) Savage: the "barbarian races", Ogres, Orcs and others who might fit
5) Forgotten Gods: including the Vampire Counts and the Tomb Kings

No Imams = no jihads

I'd just like to point out that changing the names (data\text\religions.txt) and symbols (data\ui\pips) of the existing religions can be easily done. Also a faction can have heresy as their religion.

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Originally Posted by uanime5

I'd just like to point out that changing the names (data\text\religions.txt) and symbols (data\ui\pips) of the existing religions can be easily done. Also a faction can have heresy as their religion.

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I'm assuming you're thinking of Chaos. That would be really cool. I think we should drop crusades all together. They make no sense in the Warhammer world.

What I mean is that, there's no point having a crusade if it only will encompas one faction. Ok, so we have the Waaagh for the Orcs. So an Orc calls a Jihad/Waaagh. Then what. What's the difference between this and just attacking normaly.

Same with grail quests for Bretonnia. And same for what ever it is that Sigmarites in Empire are on. Nechrarchs are also on their own crusades, but can still only encompass one faction. Horned Rat for Skaven. There are very few factions that have anything in common.

And then we've got conversions that make less sense. No human will ever start worshiping the Horned Rat or Gork and Mork.

BTW. Gork is fighty but cunning and Mork is Cunning but Fighty. It's from the army book. It's the extent of their religius tenets.

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Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

What I mean is that, there's no point having a crusade if it only will encompas one faction. Ok, so we have the Waaagh for the Orcs. So an Orc calls a Jihad/Waaagh. Then what. What's the difference between this and just attacking normaly.

Same with grail quests for Bretonnia. And same for what ever it is that Sigmarites in Empire are on. Nechrarchs are also on their own crusades, but can still only encompass one faction. Horned Rat for Skaven. There are very few factions that have anything in common.

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It may be better to have guild / council missions instead of jihads and crusades.

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And then we've got conversions that make less sense. No human will ever start worshiping the Horned Rat or Gork and Mork.

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If the Skaven conquer a human settlement they will kill the humans and destroy their religious buildings, then worship the Horned Rat. This will increase the Skaven religion and decrease the human one. Also a priest from one religions could cause problems in another religion by criticising the host religion.

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Originally Posted by uanime5

If the Skaven conquer a human settlement they will kill the humans and destroy their religious buildings, then worship the Horned Rat. This will increase the Skaven religion and decrease the human one. Also a priest from one religions could cause problems in another religion by criticising the host religion.

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I'm still not convinced. I still a proponent of calling it "cultural afiliation" or something like it. An invader becomes gradually the dominant culture. If we elmiminate priests this shift will be even more gradual and a lot harder as a player to control. We can have all faction specific buildings increase their "religious/cultural conversion" and nothing else.

All the people aren't killed when Skavens take a settlement. They make the resident population slaves. So they'll be alive and ready to be liberated. I assume it's the same deal with orcs. The only cultures hell-bent on destroying anything not of their race are humans and the Tomb Kings. :skull: I'm not sure how we could make that to be represented in a convincing way. Skaven live underground anyway so I guess it would still work.

Since every faction has their own religion, keeping the religion as in MTW2 won't add anything. I think it would be better to just write that so-and-so religion is being worshiped without their being any effects on the game mechanic.

I think adding as many religions as possible could be fun. Sure there would be tons of religious unrest, but just add some powerful buildings to set off that unbalance. Look at Russia and there studios that blast the effect of Orthodox worship in Vanilla.

Alternatively, we can just have one religion for each kind of factions, but use the old RTW system of different religious building trees. So like if your faction worships Sigmar, then build a shrine to Sigmar.

AH HA!!! I Have solution to the priest problem

Orks: Wyrdboy, not a good converter, but able to do some stuff, not sure what kinda stuff, but definatly ork waaagh (imatated jihad)

Empire, Bretonnia, All the choas gods: Traditional Preist thingy

Skaven, Lizardmen, Elves (all), everyone else: No preists

Building solution

The factions with no priests (and orcs) have a very good conversion rate, almost 100%

The other factions, There buildings work as normal

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Originally Posted by Abokasee

AH HA!!! I Have solution to the priest problem

Orks: Wyrdboy, not a good converter, but able to do some stuff, not sure what kinda stuff, but definatly ork waaagh (imatated jihad)

Empire, Bretonnia, All the choas gods: Traditional Preist thingy

Skaven, Lizardmen, Elves (all), everyone else: No preists

Building solution

The factions with no priests (and orcs) have a very good conversion rate, almost 100%

The other factions, There buildings work as normal

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So only certain factions can have priests, while other factions have religious buildings but cannot train priests. I would like to point out that not being able to train priests does not mean that the faction does not having a religion (all factions must have a religion). Also what is the point of having religious buildings it you cannot train religious agents (other than the small amount of religious conversion and some health benefits)?

Also it would go against the spirit of Warhammer if the Empire, Bretonnia, and Chaos were all the same religion (unless one is Catholic and the other is Orthodox, thus producing different priests).

[QUOTE=uanime5]So only certain factions can have priests, while other factions have religious buildings but cannot train priests. I would like to point out that not being able to train priests does not mean that the faction does not having a religion (all factions must have a religion). Also what is the point of having religious buildings it you cannot train religious agents (other than the small amount of religious conversion and some health benefits)?

Is it possible to add additional affects or units such as in RTW and MTW? Like how Denmark got War clerics from churches, The empire sigmar worshipping building could produce small groups of priests of sigmar. Higher end religous buildings for Chaos could be the way to produce daemons. Just my take.

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Originally Posted by Dogman55

Is it possible to add additional affects or units such as in RTW and MTW? Like how Denmark got War clerics from churches, The empire sigmar worshipping building could produce small groups of priests of sigmar. Higher end religous buildings for Chaos could be the way to produce daemons. Just my take.

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That is possible and can be easily coded.

Cool :)

just an idea as far as how to make ork waghs different than just an average force. similar to how unique units are only available to crusades, so could they be in he wagh forces, perhaps stronger/more expensive as they are under the influence of the wagh. incorporatings priests/religion could be quite difficult, and perhaps rather than seeing religion as religion, it would be more similar to covert operations. Increasing the relative costs of these dissension causers and decreasing their overall effects would more closely represent this. Therefore the player could have some control over 'religion' as I propose it would be more of a demoralizing agent. However, changing the effects of priests may not be viable, so instead I would propose to greatly increase their costs, so no over-invested nation would be able to afford more than 1 'priest' per 5 provinces they control at any given time. Of course it would be possible, just make their upkeep so high that additional agents would reduce the more important case of maintaining strong armies.

Great looking mod, my two bits. Crusades are a part of Warhammer, period. Crusades were launched by the Empire, Brettonia, Tilea (and the surrounding regions) against the Skaven, Araby, and to a certain extent the undead. I will dig up some fluff sources when I get off work:laugh4: .

Warhammer really does boil down to a fight between good and evil, bearing in mind that both sides don't mind fighting one another along the way. It is important to point out that there are at least two distinct camps. High Elves, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Brittonia, The Empire, Kislev, the Border Princes, the Tilean City States, all of them can and do make alliances, and support one another. But you would never see them making an alliance with Choas, Beastmen, Skaven, Undead, Dark Elves, Choas Dwarves, or Fimir. Orcs and Goblins fit in there for the most part as well. There are a couple of groups that seem to swing both ways, as in are more neutral parties, such as the Slaan/lizardmen, Hobgoblin Hegomy, Araby, and some of the tribes between Kislev and Choas Wastes. You could also throw Cathay into that mix for good measure. The point is, there are two main groups who DO NOT tend to mix well, and modifying the existing religious structure could be a way to do that. How would I do it, if I could? By alignment/motivations.

Lawful/Good

Neutral/Some Evil

Choatic/Rest of the Evil

I have heard different numbers for a religious cap in MTW II, Some say six, others 7, I will shoot on the low end, at six.

Religion 1 “Catholic” (Neutral, crusading kingdoms)

Empire
Brettonia
Kislev
Tilean States
Border Princes
Estalian Kingdoms
Dwarves (reclaiming lost dwarf holds, grudges, etc) (could be orthodox instead)

Religion 2 “Orthodox” Good, Lawful, Tend to be Isolationist, no crusades /jihads
Wood Elves
High Elves

Religion 3 Chaos Worshippers “Muslim” Jihad, Evil, Chaotic Evil Races (have history of mass invasions)

Khorne
Nurgle
Tzeentch
Slaaneesh
Beastmen
Orc and Goblin
Skaven

Religion 4 “Heretic 1” Non Crusading/Jihad Neutral (even a little evil)

Old Slaan/Lizardmen
Hobgoblin Hegomy
Northern Steppe Tribes
Araby
Cathay/Dragon Isles


Religion 5 heretic 2 non jihad evil races

Vampire Counts
Tomb Kings
Dark Elves
Chaos Dwarves

That gives me

7 “catholic faction”
7 “muslim factions”
2 “Orthodox”
4-5 “heretic 1” factions
5 “heretic 2” factions


The key here is you have you two main divisions, the catholics and muslims. Those in one camp despise those in the other, meaning that although they could be allied for a short period of time it is unlikely to endure. The orthodox factions should also have enmity towards the muslim ones. Heritic 1 factions are could go either way, while heretic 2 factions are the opposite of the orthodox and would tend to lean towards aligning them selves with the “muslim” factions.

The different “religions” are more like levels of tolerance. You can stratify the groups with different cultures, just like you have northern and southern European cultures, we could stratify the catholic factions into:

Northern European
Empire
Brettonia
Border Princes

Southern European
Estalia
Tilean States

Eastern Culture
Kislev

Dwarves, who knows. If I understand the game mechanics correctly though this stratification also causes unrest, IE having a SE Church when you are a NE factions causes some unrest until you upgrade it or destroy and replace it. I assume the same thing could be done to separate the Muslim factions into a chaos culture, ork and goblin culture, and skaven culture.

Just my two bits LOL. I am willing to help as needed, but I do not have extensive modding experience in MTW II, though some in other games like Morrowind. I do a bit of petty messing around with basic game files, nothing fancy.

The problem isnt a matter of crusades not being part of the warhammer world, its a matter of how the game mechanics deals with them. Crusades are called by the pope who is a physical character on the map with his own faction which has its own hardcoded rules and is elected from agents of the catholic factions. Jihads are less complicated but they are called by agents who have other hardcoded effects. We can find a way to work around these and implement crusades and the like without re-writing how they work in the warhammer world it'll be done.

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Originally Posted by Gurkhal

An alternative could be:

1) Chaotic: Norse, Kurgan, Beastmen, Skaven, Chaos Dwarfs, Druchii(alot of people will get angry, but unless we want to play on the conflict between the cult of Khaine and the cult of pleasure it should be ok).
2) Old Gods: same as in the post above mentioned above
3) Humanoid: same as mentioned in the post above
4) Savage: the "barbarian races", Ogres, Orcs and others who might fit
5) Forgotten Gods: including the Vampire Counts and the Tomb Kings

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Elves have some different gods but they all share a common one, which is Khaela Mensha Khaine, normally just named Khaine who is the elven god of war, so we could have the elves have all the same religion, by all worshipping the god of war.:knight:

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Originally Posted by bluntfang

Religion 3 Chaos Worshippers “Muslim” Jihad, Evil, Chaotic Evil Races (have history of mass invasions)

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U don't know how prejudice against Muslims that sounds :laugh4:

I remember reading something about an albion campaign some time back, that had mages or some sort of dark shrouded man that gathered together the "good races" to gain some magical item or something in the like, while there was an evil version that gathered the "evil races" to fight the good ones.

Maybe you could change the model for the priest into a dark shrouded mage or aspiring champion or something in the like, while they may not exactly give piety......probably code it so it doesnt change the unrest cause of religion or whatnot....BUT they could still call a crusade, and have the pope represent the leader of these heroes/mages or w.e they were.

and same with "muslim" factions, whether they be the traditional good factions or evil factions, same process

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Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

I'm still not convinced. I still a proponent of calling it "cultural afiliation" or something like it. An invader becomes gradually the dominant culture. If we elmiminate priests this shift will be even more gradual and a lot harder as a player to control. We can have all faction specific buildings increase their "religious/cultural conversion" and nothing else.

All the people aren't killed when Skavens take a settlement. They make the resident population slaves. So they'll be alive and ready to be liberated. I assume it's the same deal with orcs. The only cultures hell-bent on destroying anything not of their race are humans and the Tomb Kings. :skull: I'm not sure how we could make that to be represented in a convincing way. Skaven live underground anyway so I guess it would still work.

Since every faction has their own religion, keeping the religion as in MTW2 won't add anything. I think it would be better to just write that so-and-so religion is being worshiped without their being any effects on the game mechanic.

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I don't know. :idea2:I still think crusades should be included, for one reason. That reason is that it make the people on the crusade able to move i think 50% farther. So that would help, especially if youre going somewhere far off. :thinking2:

Thats not really a very good reason to include them, the same effect can be done with traits without all the hardcoded crap that goes with crusades

Yes to religion.
No to pope.

Khaine isn't that the blood god in WH40k?

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Originally Posted by koko198

Khaine isn't that the blood god in WH40k?

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yeah it is, he still exists after about 40000 years, ya know cause he's immortal.

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Originally Posted by Abokasee

How about:

Orks: Gork'n'Mork (These to ork gods have different meanings, but no one sure which one is which, Most say gork will hit mork really hard, the mork hits gorks when he is not looking, or the otherway round) should be aloud to do WAAAGH, jihad style,

Empire: Imperial, (Generally for all the Imperial gods, including sigmar)

Bretonnia: not sure, Various heros and the lady of lake? not sure...

Choas: Each of the gods, might be able to call a sort of crusade on the main empire city... (4 different temples for each of the gods allowing different units for each temple)

Lizard men: Old ones

Not to sure about the others...

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Good thinking that man, IMO.

My only question is, what exactly are these winds of magic going to do? Apart from sow chaos and disorder into various neighbouring provinces, I mean.

What I was thinking is would it be possible to take the mechanics of the merchants and add them to the priests? If the priests become wizards (or each factions variant thereof) then suddenly it could be quite cool, especially to have a mighty wizard wandering the map, converting and destroying rival wizard-types.

There is also the "X% Type" restriction mechanic, like with the Teutonic Knights requiring 80% Catholics in an area, the undead units might require a certain percentage of "death magic" in an area before undead can be raised by their Necromancers (the undead priestly substitute). The same goes for Warpriests of Sigmar or whatever they're called, and probably Chaos' demon units.

I don't know the Warhammer magic groupings, so this is a rough guess gleaned from the thread, just to use as a guideline.

Faction - Priest-type

Death Magic (Heretic):

Vampire Counts - Necromancer
Tomb Kings - Necromancer

Old Magic (Orthodox):

Lizardmen - Shaman
Dwarves -
High Elves - Mage

Light Magic (Catholic):
Brettonnia - Light Wizard
Empire - Priest

Waagh Magic (Islam):
Orcs and Goblins - Wierdboy/Shaman

"Chaos" magic (Paganism)
Chaos - Sorceror
Skaven - Cultist
Dark Elves - Witch

These are, again, just rough guesses at what categories to use, but I think the existing mechanics should be okay for them, such as the Bright Magic types being able to call crusades (I assume their magic is very much tied in with their gods) and the Waagh magic users calling a Waagh (jihad).

The Theologians Guild could be replaced with a Mage's guild, and the religious buildings changed to wizard's tower-type ones, too.

Dwarfs - Runesmith or Dwarf Elder

Anyway I would prefer to stay at the religion / culture solution rather than magic.
For exemple:

Old world faith
- Priest/Priestess (Empire / Bretonia)

Chaos
- Cultist / Witch / Grey Seer (Chaos / Dark Elfes / Skaven)

Ancient Gods
- Seer (High Elfes & Wood Elfes)

Ancestall Faith
- Elder (Dwarfs)


Wild Faith
- Shaman (Orcs)

Heresy
- Hierofant / Necromancer (Tomb Kings / Vampire Counts)

Ancestral Cult
- Elder (Dwarfs)

The Old Ones
Skink Priest (Lizardmen)

bah it's not ''khaine'' it's Khorne and the marauders should have warcry like ''Blood for the blood god'' wich is like a plea for strength and victory coz khorne are to be worshipped on the battlefield not in a temple and yup Be'lakor was the first mortal one to achieve daemonhood and immortality he became arrogant wich brought his dowfall coz then tzeencht (spelling) punished him making him the harbringer to crown the everchosen ones with the crown of domination but to never wield it himself...and Archaon was/is the most powerfull everchosen that ever has existed since he have the artifacts of passed ones and a lot of other things...I got make sure of one thing ...please please don't make chaos and empire in same religion that would completly bann me from this mod coz that is just so WRONG they are the opposites chaos always tries to beat empire and nearly succeds until they form alliance with others and form an army and that was the end lesson for today:smash:

Khaine = elf/eldar god of murder......

khorne= chaos god of savagery...blood.....death....destruction...you name it.

:smash:

As a temporary measure, one could simply add the factions to the Order/Destruction alignment, at least until the religions are coded in.