Looking for games with good AI

I'm looking for some new games to get for the summer. What I'm mainly looking for is a game with clever AI, no matter which genre. RTS, TBS, action, tactical, sports (mainly ice hockey), and maybe also RPG. I would like to find a game with AI that is varied, difficult to predict, where the AI skill isn't achieved through AI cheating or something simplistic like giving the AI godlike aim in a shooter. Alternatively, if the AI isn't that complex, it should at least take long before I discover exactly how it works and how to exploit it systematically.

Some games I've been thinking about: Histwar, ArmA, full spectrum warrior, one of the many ww2 strategy game released in the latest 5 years (which one is the best?), STALKER, some combat flight simulator. I'm also considering getting some very old games, if they're strategy/tactical and feature very good AI, even if the graphics are bad.

What are your experiences with these suggested games? And where I have mentioned a broad genre, which particular games would you recommend?

I would suggest Company of Heroes. If you've played Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War, you know what to expect.

F.E.A.R. has be far the best AI I have ever seen, there is currently nothing that can claim to be even half as advanced, nothing like it.

Well, I'm not a shooter person usually, but I think the Stalker AI isn't bad and I didn't find a way to really "expoit" it yet.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

F.E.A.R. has be far the best AI I have ever seen, there is currently nothing that can claim to be even half as advanced, nothing like it.

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It's also boringly repetitive, so the OP should keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by sapi

It's also boringly repetitive, so the OP should keep that in mind.

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True that, it's pure shooter at heart, but if you like that kind of thing it's just the thing you like. F.E.A.R. isn't without it flaws, level design feels almost randomly generated at times, but the insane combat and thick atmosphere kept me going. Bit of a one trick pony, but that suits me just fine; I got a gun and I want to shoot it, and nothing does it better at the moment. Great in short bursts at least if you can't forgive it's shortcommings.

The Close Combat games have the best AI I've ever seen. I think anyone who played them can agree to that.

In my albeit biased opinion I would recommend

FAR CRY

That is If you haven't tried it yet, excellent ai, graphics and gameplay. The only downside is the low quality voice acting and the lack of a coherent plotline.

And the icing on the cake is that by the time you will be done with it, it's successor crysis is due to be released in the the third quarter of this year.:2thumbsup:

I would even recomend the the orignal precursor to ArmA, the Operation Flashpoint series.

Yeah Far Cry (pc version) has excellent AI as well, the only shooter where you feel like being hunted. Not too shabby a game either.

Galactic Civilisations 2 is a turn based space empire building strategy game with impressive AI. More impressively still, it doesn't cheat. The first few difficult levels have its income slashed by massive amounts and many of its algorithms disabled. If you have a good CPU you can make it more intelligent still by turning on the 'advanced AI algorithms' option.

Civ 4 is generally considered to have a good AI and to be very challenging on levels above noble. The caveat I add to that is that the AI cheats outrageously; IMO that disqualifies it from honestly claiming to have a good AI.

Civ4 is worth considering. True, a lot of the challenge at higher difficulties is due to cheating, but even on a fair playing field, the AI is surprisingly good given the incredible complexity of the game.

The most amazing example I had was in an early war with the Japanese. They launched two offensives - one amphibious - into my lands, that I was eventually able to despatch. Only when the dust settled, did I realise that they had pillaged my only two copper mines, leaving me unable to recruit any troops.

More generally, just seeing massive AI stacks loom out of the fog of war to attack your defenceless cities can be humbling. Especially when you consider they must have marched half way around the world for scores of turns - before war was even declared - just to come and see you. :bow:

The AI can be inept at tactics - it does not bring enough siege engines, for example. But the programmers have said that if they made it smarter, it would be less fun to play and I believe that. Some modders have tweaked it to make it nastier, but it does not sound fun at all.



Imperialism 2 also has formiddable AI, although you can exploit it more than Civs.



Jagged Alliance 2 can give you a good fight, especially if you are masochistic enough to fight in daylight. It is an awesome game too.



Do RPGs need an AI? I think they need character above all (which, incidentally, the AIs do have in Civ4, Imp2 and JA2). System Shock 2 and Vampire Bloodlines are the two games that I have found myself most enthralled by the AI: it oozes character, whether it is good at killing you or not, I am not sure but you are prepared to suspend disbelief and accept that it does most definitely want to kill you (or, even more fun, use you).

Thanks! For now I think I'll get Company of Heroes and STALKER.

Are there any opinions on the other games I mentioned in the first post?

One note: Character != AI. AI = Intelligence and the capacity to think for themselves and the ability to hunt you down. Vampire: Bloodlines has pretty bad AI, and at many times you'll bang your head at the stupidity of the enemy.

A bit old, but Operation Flashpoint has one of the best AI I have seen.

To add to the excellent suggestion for CoH, I'd recommend getting the Advanced AI Mod: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=137865

If you play Skirmish with that baby the computer is RUTHLESS, even on Easy.

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Originally Posted by Bijo

To add to the excellent suggestion for CoH, I'd recommend getting the Advanced AI Mod: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=137865

If you play Skirmish with that baby the computer is RUTHLESS, even on Easy.

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Dawn Of War also has a AI mod, Dawn of Skirmish. They just released the latest version for Dark Crusade.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=146830
They have versions available for DoW/WA as well.

I definitely do not suggest Company of Heroes if you like games that are fun, only games that have a challenging AI. It was getting such high praise from everyone about being a truly unique strategy game, and you can imagine my surprise (and disgust) when I found out it was just a Dawn of War reskin.

I definitely second Froggy's recommendation of Galactic Civilizations 2; the AI is actually pretty brutal. It does admittedly get cheats at difficulty levels higher than "Tough", but most players find the AI a sufficient challenge long before they get that far. (As it is, the computer currently smacks me around just when I'm playing on Normal difficulty. :sweatdrop:)

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

I definitely do not suggest Company of Heroes if you like games that are fun, only games that have a challenging AI. It was getting such high praise from everyone about being a truly unique strategy game, and you can imagine my surprise (and disgust) when I found out it was just a Dawn of War reskin.

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i didnt play Dawn of War and i found CoH VERY fun. gameplay is just great, sound, music, voice acting is amazing, and very good graphics (an RTS that actually has HDR) and very challenging AI. im still struggling with the AI on expert.

Medieval 2: Total War anyone? With patch 1.2 and AI enhancer mod of course... :eyebrows:

Or perhaps Battlefield 2? :stupido2:

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

I definitely do not suggest Company of Heroes if you like games that are fun, only games that have a challenging AI. It was getting such high praise from everyone about being a truly unique strategy game, and you can imagine my surprise (and disgust) when I found out it was just a Dawn of War reskin.

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Phew....I'm not alone....

It doesn't matter to people who haven't played DoW and it doesn't matter in general: they're playing CoH and they like it. In any case, the OP will have challenging AI if he plays CoH with that AI mod.


I also suggest Far Cry, though I think a person can quite easily detect predictable patterns in enemy behaviour after some time.


Another is Sniper Elite: a WW2 sniper game where stealth, quick effective shooting, carrying out a mission, fast redeployment and sneaky traps are vitally important. The AI is surprisingly and refreshingly effective, up to a point it's not even funny, due to the slow and pressing nature of the gameplay.
You can add and remove realistic concepts such as wind, holding breath, gravity, and so on to make it more difficult. Not only can the AI be ruthlessly effective, you'll be sneaking as much as possible, and a distant headshot into an enemy soldier is then very satisfying.
Walk slowly through a building as you set aside your sniper rifle and grab your picked up MP40 to clear it out or use your silenced pistol. Hide in the dark and give that enemy soldier walking by to investigate the darkness a quick bullet in the head. Or stay outside the building, place a trip wire grenade, and lure out anybody who's in there.
But even better if an enemy sniper has spotted you: he'll pick you off quickly :)

I haven't played DoW, so perhaps I will have a good time with CoH despite it being a reskin of DoW?

Too bad I've already played Vampire, OFP and some of the other great games suggested here ~:)

Another vote for GalCiv2, I get smacked around too, on the levels where the AI has no cheats. Best strategic AI I've seen in a game, so far.

About Far Cry... I didn't get the impression that the AI was all that great. It worked well enough, but it was more the starting positions and programmed reactions (i.e. level design) than AI. I think that's true of most FPS games, although I haven't tried F.E.A.R. yet. That's on my list when I get some free time.

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Originally Posted by Bijo

It doesn't matter to people who haven't played DoW and it doesn't matter in general: they're playing CoH and they like it. In any case, the OP will have challenging AI if he plays CoH with that AI mod.


I also suggest Far Cry, though I think a person can quite easily detect predictable patterns in enemy behaviour after some time.


Another is Sniper Elite: a WW2 sniper game where stealth, quick effective shooting, carrying out a mission, fast redeployment and sneaky traps are vitally important. The AI is surprisingly and refreshingly effective, up to a point it's not even funny, due to the slow and pressing nature of the gameplay.
You can add and remove realistic concepts such as wind, holding breath, gravity, and so on to make it more difficult. Not only can the AI be ruthlessly effective, you'll be sneaking as much as possible, and a distant headshot into an enemy soldier is then very satisfying.
Walk slowly through a building as you set aside your sniper rifle and grab your picked up MP40 to clear it out or use your silenced pistol. Hide in the dark and give that enemy soldier walking by to investigate the darkness a quick bullet in the head. Or stay outside the building, place a trip wire grenade, and lure out anybody who's in there.
But even better if an enemy sniper has spotted you: he'll pick you off quickly :)

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Sniper Elite seems interesting. I looked a bit at reviews, but the reviews complained a lot about the controls. What do you think? The gameplay seems incredibly promising. Also, how are saves handled?

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Originally Posted by Stig

The Close Combat games have the best AI I've ever seen. I think anyone who played them can agree to that.

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From what I have understood, there are many Close Combat games. Which one would you recommend the most for someone who will buy only one of them?

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Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix

Sniper Elite seems interesting. I looked a bit at reviews, but the reviews complained a lot about the controls. What do you think? The gameplay seems incredibly promising. Also, how are saves handled?

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The controls are a bit... annoying, probably. With a mouse-and-keyboard setup it'll work well enough, but could take a little time getting used to (and I specifically mean scrolling through inventory and stuff like that, or setting up certain non-standard devices like trip wires or throwing grenades, but it's not too big a deal).
Movement controls are a bit like Splinter Cell, where you have the standard AWSD, the mouse for camera control and aiming, and the middle mouse button for specifying the movement speed of your character by turning it. Not bad. But the overall controls could be better.

The saves are handled differently depending on what you choose. If you take a higher difficulty level -- if I recall well -- you have less saves, and maybe in some cases no saves at all.
But there's also this thing that you can just save anyway even if you're through all of 'em, but in that case you'll get a lower score in the end when you finish a level. (Been a while since I played it, but I guess that's how it went.)

The gameplay is handled well enough, and it urges you to be very careful and sneaky. Example: you have a nice spot to pick off some heads, but as soon as you squeeze off a couple shots they will immediately search for you, and they will get you if you're not fast outta there. Or you could place trip wire grenades to protect your position from assault, to warn you if anything comes close. If you take a couple bullets up-close, you're gone.

You can also pick people off without lethality to use them as sniper bait as they call out to their buddies for help. If you're really good you can make a one-shot kill (or hit(s)) through TWO heads (or bodies) if two enemies are lined up.

Well, it's becoming a long story, but I tell you.... this game is really worth picking up, though I must warn you it requires lots of patience :)

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Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix

From what I have understood, there are many Close Combat games. Which one would you recommend the most for someone who will buy only one of them?

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I prefer A Bridge Too Far myself

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Originally Posted by Stig

The Close Combat games have the best AI I've ever seen. I think anyone who played them can agree to that.

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I totally disagree with this. I am a huge fan of the Close Combat games, but the AI is ridiculously easy to beat. The only challenge in the games comes from using the various "Vetmod" versions which give the AI far more men than the player, and even then it can be beaten pretty easily. I can see the games being hard for people who are new to it, but that's more due to figuring out the game mechanics than the AI. The Close Combat games are (IMO) the best multiplayer strategy games in existence, but that has nothing to do with the AI.

Well in that case I'm mostlikely worse then the AI

I'm not sure if these games are what you're looking for, but several spring to mind Conquest of the Aegean and the games from AGEOD: Birth of America and AGEOD's American Civil War.

The games themselves are not graphic heavy, but still look good. Much attention has been paid to the AI.

Here are some links to their forums which may provide an indication of the style of each game.

http://www.ageod.com/forums/index.php

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=123

These are grognard-level games and award winners at that. I play quite a bit of single player games and need some challenge. I'd put the AI from both these games at quite a high level.

If you are interested in Chess, Rybka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rybka) seems to be the top AI at the moment for personal computing.

Artificial intelligence is nice, human intelligence is a far better opponent than any machine and groups working together are smarter than soloists.

Sooo, the answer is Battlefield2.

Nothing beats a few rounds on a BF2 64 ticket map in a six-member squad with a squad leader who is Medic and has VoiP, no noobs on board and every member knows the map and can fly, drive and use anti-tank or C4. Gets my adrenaline going every time.

Then you might as well suggest joining the army. Human opponent "AI", human friendlies who have "AI", and real-time action in the field :)

You can even feel real pain or die ;) Maybe paintball is a better suggestion, heh heh.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Artificial intelligence is nice, human intelligence is a far better opponent than any machine and groups working together are smarter than soloists.

Sooo, the answer is Battlefield2.

Nothing beats a few rounds on a BF2 64 ticket map in a six-member squad with a squad leader who is Medic and has VoiP, no noobs on board and every member knows the map and can fly, drive and use anti-tank or C4. Gets my adrenaline going every time.

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You have a good point, and I indeed prefer human opposition in most cases. But there are situations in which human opposition is not a good idea: when I want to be able to play when I feel like it, when I want to play a non-mainstream or old game that has lost/never had any notable mp community, and when I want to play complex long-time campaigns that would be too much fuss to arrange with others, etc.

Thank you for bringing the thread back on topic. It is actually quite difficult to find good AI's, particularly with certain kinds of games.

Go is one game where AI research hasn't progressed very far. Most AI's for Go as easily beaten on a smaller board by players of relatively low experience, even if the computer is given a large benefit of handicap against the player. That type of game just doesn't lend itself to programming, due to the nature of game resolution. More pieces are going onto the board, not being taken off.

I'd say that the more simplistic the game, the more likely the AI is to be able to give you a challenge. I think that is why the AGEOD games are quite good in that the economics are abstracted, so the choice are restricted to what kinds and sizes of armies, led by which assortments of leaders moving to take specific areas. Abstracting economics and diplomacy leaves more time for the strategic assessment. These games also permit some choice in AI time for assessment. They say the latest game permits dual cores to think about the move as you are conducting your, but I can't ouch for how that works without a dual core myself.

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Originally Posted by Dunhill

I'd say that the more simplistic the game, the more likely the AI is to be able to give you a challenge. I think that is why the AGEOD games are quite good in that the economics are abstracted, so the choice are restricted to what kinds and sizes of armies, led by which assortments of leaders moving to take specific areas. Abstracting economics and diplomacy leaves more time for the strategic assessment. These games also permit some choice in AI time for assessment. They say the latest game permits dual cores to think about the move as you are conducting your, but I can't ouch for how that works without a dual core myself.

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Yep, that's true. Most RTS AIs are pretty decent simply because the game itself is simple. The C&C series, Warcraft series, Starcraft, etc. all had AIs that would give you a run for your money in random battles.

I like Take command

http://www.madminutegames.com/Screen...0051219-4S.jpg

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Combat feels authentic beyond the basics of ensuring that regiments and commanders remain true to the textbooks. Positioning is crucial. You need to get your artillery into the right position and place your infantry in the ideal spot to both gain a good firing height and an ideal location for an enemy-breaking bayonet charge. This isn't particularly easy. Maps are sprawling affairs (which get the job done nicely despite being pretty dated, with blurry troops and choppy animations) filled with battle-affecting physical features such as forests, roads, walls, and farmhouses

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Really neat is how every unit has the correct commnder and every unit has the correct flag that it carries in battle .

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Battles are much more orderly than you would think, though, largely thanks to immaculate artificial intelligence. Brigade commanders do a solid job of issuing orders in your stead when the shooting starts, so you don't need to concern yourself with micromanagement. Forget to put a brigade into a proper firing line when moving into firing position--which is almost inevitable in larger battles, as you tend to be dealing out orders to at least a half-dozen brigades at any given time--and the commander takes over and does it for you. He also shifts the line into ideal firing position, swings in around to target a new enemy column if the first is dispersed or destroyed, and is quick to order his men to respond if ambushed. Essentially, the urge for self-preservation kicks in smartly whenever you drop the ball. Control freaks might not appreciate this, as it can fairly be said that aspects of the game run on autopilot. But this does add to the authenticity of being involved in a real battle, with real human commanders taking and interpreting your orders.

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Needless to say the same goes for the enemy units facing you. These are really tough battles. The AI are no morons.

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If you're a wargamer with an interest in the Civil War, you will love Take Command: Second Manassas. The only caveat is that the rigorous attention to historical detail makes for such a leisurely pace that casual gamers might be scared away. Then again, the casual crowd isn't apt to be interested in a hardcore Civil War reenactment sim in the first place, so MadMinute's target demographic isn't likely to care.

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The thing is you must march your units to their positions for the battle, Using the correct routes and giving the proper marching orders has a lot to do with the out come. Its not just all lined up like in VI. The maps are huge and it takes quite q while to get everything in position. If your not playing the commander in cheif you will reguarly recieve dispatches from your superior officers telling you what to do. You can see the dispatches coming on their horses right thriugh the battle. Its truly an amazing game. I have both Bull Run and Mannassas and love playing them both.

I thought the STALKER AI was remarkably bad, actually... as were the combat dynamics (who would move so leisurely during a firefight?). The positive aspects of the game were not enough to make up for those flaws.

With FEAR, isn't it ironic that the character's super reflex ability mostly helps those players with slow reflexes? The combat dynamics were decent and the graphics were pleasing, but I didn't find the game so enjoyable... then again, I didn't utilize the slow motion ability at all, so maybe I've missed out on something.

Far Cry was superior to the two games above. It was far too easy to be undetectable outdoors as long as you were stationary, however. The AI is not so much superior as it is more versatile than other games.

Mount and Blade might be worth trying (there's a thread on it in this forum). I'd give it a very high recommendation, based on its gameplay, if Lord of the Rings doesn't insult your sensibilities. Be sure to check out the "directional blocking" option, it's great!

IL-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles will probably satisfy you the most out of the games mentioned... as would the newer installments in the series. You would of course have to invest in a joystick.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Artificial intelligence is nice, human intelligence is a far better opponent than any machine and groups working together are smarter than soloists.

Sooo, the answer is Battlefield2.

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Only if you play with good players, multiplayer games can be free for all spray and pray-fests as well. A good AI feels like it actually works together, in the case of Halo and F.E.A.R. the AI trumps 90% of the multiplayer matches.

Battlefield 2 multiplayer can make you feel like either you are against supermen or idiots. However, this is also the case on single player too. Case in point: The Great Wall map, single player. Chinese players can dominate the map because of a bug in the map causing the EU AI to clusterfudge over at one ruined part of the wall at one of their main spawn points, all of them TRYING to jump over onto the wall, but failing, getting all of them stuck.
Multiplayer can be the same, with some players thinking they are god when they really aren't. You don't charge into an area you just threw a grenade at, idiot! If someone is manning a machine gun nest, you don't charge across a field directly in its line of fire to get to it! If you gain command of a transport helicopter, you certainly don't crash it, with your human cargo, into a tank!

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Only if you play with good players, multiplayer games can be free for all spray and pray-fests as well. A good AI feels like it actually works together, in the case of Halo and F.E.A.R. the AI trumps 90% of the multiplayer matches.

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I played with that seperate free FEAR MP client(FEAR Combat IIRC) and it was mostly a whole lot of shooting and dieing involved. I had great fun because it was so...absurd.:laugh4: How do you want to aim if your screen is full of particles, smoke and special effects that you cannot see a player anyway? ~;)

It is very much possible to turn that off. But the real meat is in the single player thanks to the oh so excellent enemy behaviour. These guys really keep you second-guessing all the time, and then OHNOES behind me :skull:

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Battlefield 2 multiplayer can make you feel like either you are against supermen or idiots.

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Exactly. The supermen would be in the well-oiled squad. The squad with the leader who calls for artillery support so you get killed without knowing what (or rather, who) hit you. Who tells his squaddies what's what, where the opposition is, what kit to bring to a situation, &cetera. And with a squaddie called Adrian II who either drives tanks or kills them.

But I believe the original poster does not appreciate multiplayer discussion in his thread. Maybe we can pursue this some other time.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Exactly. The supermen would be in the well-oiled squad. The squad with the leader who calls for artillery support so you get killed without knowing what (or rather, who) hit you. Who tells his squaddies what's what, where the opposition is, what kit to bring to a situation, &cetera. And with a squaddie called Adrian II who either drives tanks or kills them.

But I believe the original poster does not appreciate multiplayer discussion in his thread. Maybe we can pursue this some other time.

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The ultimate nutjobs are Commanders who go out into the middle of the fight INSTEAD OF DOING THEIR JOBS.
The single player version didn't even have commanders, unless you put yourself in that seat.