This is a poll with choices taken from the earlier thread. Multiple choices are possible.
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This is a poll with choices taken from the earlier thread. Multiple choices are possible.
You forgot to add Europes sense of cultural superiority, you know, americans being looked down upon, figure that ~;)
Envy and its fashionable. If there is one precedent of history that seems to run universal, when you are on top of the mountain someone will try and knock you off, those that cant will pin prick you to death. The result of either is envitably the same, its mainly a question of when the tumble begins.
Well, Pindar, you forgot the Law of Ichi. There is no Gah option. In reality, I think all of the answers above contribute at some level or another. Are you asking us to pick one or two over all others, or to vote for any we think play some role (which in my case would be every option up there, other than that it doesn't exist). Also, are we talking about negative feelings towards America or towards Americans because I actually think those come from 2 different sources.
I think there are different causes for hostility towards the nation, than for hostility towards the people, and than for hostility towards the culture. I also think different groups and persons that dislike either of the nation, people or culture probably have different reasons for doing so. As Banquo's Ghost also pointed out in the other thread there's a third vagueness in the question, namely in terms of what degree of hostility we're talking about. I haven't voted in the poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pindar
I'm opposed to inanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Vote for any/all you feel apply.Quote:
In reality, I think all of the answers above contribute at some level or another. Are you asking us to pick one or two over all others, or to vote for any we think play some role (which in my case would be every option up there, other than that it doesn't exist).
This is a simple definition I gave in the other thread: Anti-Americanism refers to a hostility toward the U.S. as a nation, people or distinct culture set. Any aspect or all aspects taken together are options for the label.Quote:
Also, are we talking about negative feelings towards America or towards Americans because I actually think those come from 2 different sources.
Vote for what you think applies.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
I appeal to the basic sensus communis on hostility. In short, to the degree one would say X is hostile toward a Y the label can apply. If one is a little hostile then one can also be a little anti-American. The poll focuses on the root not the degree.Quote:
As Banquo's Ghost also pointed out in the other thread there's a third vagueness in the question, namely in terms of what degree of hostility we're talking about. I haven't voted in the poll.
Well, I voted without regard to the validity of the reason, only that it is in fact a reason. For example, I don't actually think the US engages in imperialism, but I do agree that it is a fairly common belief that we do in Europe.
There's also one poll option that I wish was up there that contributes a great deal: Ignorance about America and/or Americans. Many people around the world hate what they think they know, and they hate something that doesn't exist.
Have you seen the south park episode when the boys are in Afghanistan? Well, I think they bring up a pretty interesting point there. It goes like this:
Afghan kid: It is not just the Taliban that hates America, over a third of the world hates America!
Stan: But why? Why does a third of the world hate America?
Afghan kid: Because you don't realize that a third of the world hates you!
Anyway: Envy, fashionable, Bush, Disappointment in US policy and American (or perceived American) ignorance of the rest of the world.
Envy isn't one of them imo
I'm as Pindar would say it Anti-American, and I don't envy them, no I don't even want to envy them. Holland is far and far better
I doubt world opinion is so homogenous on this issue that your personal views are even remotely statistically valid, Stig. I'm sure you don't envy the USA or individual Americans. But who's being provincial now?
They're jealous, as they should be. :yes:
It's safe to say that I don't agree with a single thing in this video, but it's worth watching, if only because it's the slickest piece of anti-American propaganda I've yet seen. Move over, Leni Riefenstahl!
Well NZ is quite anti-American, though nowadays people are starting to forget why.
The reason here is that in 1987 (I think it was) our government chose to ban anything nuclear, that includes nuclear warships and submarines from our ports.
The American administration at the time wasn't to happy and so they suspended all defence obligations to us. Which meant that if the Commies stormed little old NZ then the US would just say "I told you so" (in theory).
That suspension of defence obligations has remain in effect for all the following administrations, including the Bush administration. So yeah, thats why the USA are unpopular here. This makes us one of the few nations who managed to give the USA the big finger and get away perfectly ok. :2thumbsup:
Do you see the irony, Hepcat, in resenting a nation for failing to provide you with protection when you specifically banned the means they rely upon for providing that protection? Do you really think we'd ever let old Gorby form the Zealand Soviet Socialist Republic?
If anything, it targets the certain rotten spots that tend to show up in the US government. No government is safe from this. That being said, although I'm inclined to share the disfavor of how things are done by administration and I am concerned about the spikes of support for people who openly oppose the teaching of science and encourage intolerance, this wonderfully done bit of propaganda goes further than I wish to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Propaganda? Did we watch the same video clip? I've never seen a more accurate, honest, compelling documentary in my entire life. Of course the title is a little off.
I would also like to note for the sake of argument and on the record, that as an American I HATE that stupid song "American Pie" by Don McLean. Ugh.
:balloon2:
What about an option for Imperialism without the addendum of "without regards of its people". Imperialism is enough for me to dislike anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pindar
Thats really no reason to dislike America. If you put restrictions on our ability to defend you, why bother? :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hepcat
Define "nukuler"? Is that overall, or just weapons or as a mean for powering warships? It sounds like "overall", which would include nuclear powerplants, which if correct is moronic. Nuclear power may produce some hideous waste products, but overall if handled well it can be one of the safest and cleanest sources of energy we have right now. Check out wikipedia for an article on "pebble bed reactors", which produce relatively the same amount of waste, and if designed right are near impossible to have a meltdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hepcat
I was sufficiently impressed with the animation and editing that I Googled around to find the source. Here's their main web page. As I said, I don't agree with much of anything these guys are peddling, but they're very, very good. Behold the new face of political propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
And they're relevant to the thread, since their entire message is anti-American.
envy best descibes the root cause.
"Hostility because of U.S. influence: economic, military, cultural." is a close second.
lets hope you guys don't get invaded then, because i doubt any nice non-nukular countries would be able to do much about it for you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hepcat
People dislike the USA for all sorts of reasons, so I decided to vote for every choice except the one on top.
The US have a nuclear policy?:inquisitive:
I hope they build more reactors, Germany is about to prove that windmills won't do the trick.:laugh4:
fashionable.
everyone hates the big guy on the block, for whatever reason. usually ignoring some of the good things the big guy brings about and going for the negative things to undermine him.
Before Anti-Americanism, there was Anti-Britishianism, Anti-Frenchism, Anti-Spanishism, Anti-Turkishism, anti-whatsitcalled ad infinitum
QFT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson
It is just a natural out-cropping of being the hegemon. Eventually, America will be overtaken in its position and people will be complaining about how China isn't doing enough to help third world countries.
Choices were pulled from responses in the earlier thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
I reject the term "anti-American" with it's overtones of homogeneous dislike. In fact in regards to Pindar's open-wide definition (or rather lack of definition) of the term I would say that there is actually no such thing.
Edit:
I also reject my own spelling!
To clear a few things up. NZ banned the use of nuclear items (power and weapons) within its country and waters... something that a democratic nation has the right to do btw. US in return said that they won't declare which parts of their fleet are nuclear powered or weapon enabled and as such would not send any of their navy to NZ. NZ didn't budge... so on paper the US suspended the ANZUS treaty... which acronym doesn't look so good when you suspend the Zeed part... again perfectly legit for a democratic nation...anyhow the treaty is only really suspended from the point of view of fleets arriving and other showy events... strangely enough the US listening posts are still active and a few other things still happen (like US access to polar bases via NZ) all of which are probably more valuable strategically but not so obvious to the voter...so although things changed for the visible part (democratic) the real needs of government went along... in the end it was merely a change in the US Navy going from Auckland to Sydney... note that the Mardi Gra in '88 was one of the most popular. :laugh4:
Lemur, that video was so awesome it hurt. I want to start taking over third world nations (and maybe France... or Britain... we don't care about any of you). :laugh4:
Quite snazzy.
I'm just wondering if this thread and others like it give some kind of warm feeling to our american patrons.
It's just so odd that you guys always bring this up.
I'm going to do one myself.
Its just like my grandparents thought up anti-german sentiment during WW1 to make themselves feel better about being German, offering up their towns and institutions for name changes for more PC versions.
Uhuh...
I'm fairly sure that the Franco-Prussian war and the arms race proved that the feeling was neutral.
You don't think that perhaps the Germans hated the Brits and the French?
I mean at least back then averyone was hating everyone.
Irrelevent to my people who were stateside prior to the franco-purssian conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
Oh, tough luck, I hope they enjoyed kicking France in the goolies anyway.
Not that they HAVE ANY!
(ooh im such a naughty boy!)
Rumor has that they showed up and the french kicked themselves in the goodies...then had a sandwhich.
mm, the French are probably more ashamed about devouring that most English of things, a sandwich:no:
Sandwich is french dude, like everything ever created on this planet ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
As for the topic, I think it's a bit of everything. Different people have different reasons to hate the US. In France, it's IMO, mainly because it's fashionable, because we think we would be doing better, because we think the US is too capitalistic and led by corporation, and because we disagree with it foreign policy.
Personnaly, I mainly think the US has to live up to its rhetoric and/or ideals. Like putting freedom in every sentence before creating Gitmo and invading other countries.
Then, for the average 3rd-world people, I think it would rather be because "Continual imperialistic expansion without regard for other nations/peoples. ", "Hostility because of U.S. influence: economic, military, cultural.", "The U.S. world-police policy. ".
More seriously, being the 1st one is a huge responsability, and led to a lot of hatred and envy. Yet, I think the US aren't doing anything effective to improve their reputation.
God?
However they do require that all sandwiches sold within their borders be made in France by French speaking chefs who were conceived while only listening to French musicians who of course refer to the McDonald's (or is it burger king) Cresandwhich as the Anti Christ...but not meaning Christ unless you are referring to the version of Christ which is French...same goes for Mohammed whose real name was Mohammed Jean-Paul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
I don't feel bad about this hijack as I doubt anyone harboring true Anti-American sentiment will express it honestly but would rather either deny its existence or seek to pigeon hole it into something trivial or of Bush's creation. Anyone with a minimal forebrain knows it goes much deeper.
I would like to mention how the majority of those who say envy in their posts are American. And that's one thing missing from the poll, Arrogance.
Yes that's right we all have dark obsessions about killing Americans.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeHonestus
God get over yourselves please, and start making good damned movies.
I can't believe Scorceses only got one!
I had a chat with my sisters arab boyfriend yesterday, who is a political refugee from Libya, who had to flee after he got into trouble with Gadaffi. I asked him exactly why he hates/dislikes America. The answer he gave me, was a very understandable one. First off, arab countries have a dozen dictators, who they hate(even more than the US). However, when they try to overthrow them, the US comes along and says "no, no, can't do that, that won't benefit us", and the dictator stays in power.
That was the single reason why he hated USA. The last time the Libyans tried to overthrow Gadaffi, the US stopped them and helped him maintain power. As it seems, the only US friends in the arab world, are the ones supporting the dictators, and there aren't many of those...
Since reading the thread, I've forgotten how I voted....
No, let's see - ignorance of the outside world (the same reason I disliked Londoners when I lived there :laugh4: ), foreign policy, Bush, and something else I'm sure....
BUT I do not really accept the concept of "Anti-Americanism" as an all embracing catch-all phrase. There are different strands of opposition to American policy/culture, which whilst it may give US citizens a warm fuzzy feeling to lump all together as one idea called "anti-Americanism" (and thereby dismiss it without examination), to do so is intellectually invalid.
That said, I DIDN'T vote for the "There is no such thing". For all I accept there are valid criticisms of the USA (as a political entity) to be made, I also accept that there is a lot of ill-informed and biased hatred that has been stirred up by various other politcial entities also to be criticised (eg Iranian flag-burning parties).
I was tempted by the "Imperialism without regard to others", but decided against that. Imperialism isn't the right word. If it was rephrased as "Interventionism without regard to others" I'd have no hesitation. The list is long and well rehearsed, and covers overt and covert actions, governments supported or toppled, military or economic actions etc etc etc.
This false category of "Anti-Americanism" also lumps together attitudes towards the administration, the culture and the people, thereby allowing ANY criticism of the US, however valid and justified, to be rejected without any critical self-examination. It is essentially "the race card" (as I believe it's called in the US) writ large.
For this american patron it does not, its a rather predictable outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
Pretty silly reason, considering the current administration has made itself a laughing stock by making the democratization of the middle east their sole purpose (albeit, after the WMD thing didn't work). Tell your friend to find a more current reason, there's a million out there, even some less sanctimonious, as much as the entire planet loves another 'Arabs have the US to thank for their plight' tale.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
To the folks in this thread and the other that are complaining about America's officious, World Police image;
1) Have you seen Team America?
2) How pissed would you be if the most powerful and rich country in the world's history sat by and never helped anyone?
Sometimes the US acts only it's in own interests (banana wars), and sometimes it acts distinctly altruistic (bosnia).
The accusation that America doesn't live up to it's own rhetoric is another crock that's embarrassing to hear intelligent people on this board spout. I don't know anyone who goes to France, sees a race riot, and goes around screaming 'Liberty, Equality, Fraternity my ass!' Can someone point out to me a country who's rhetoric is honest and humble?Quote:
'The idea that the United States has in the past acted in a broad-minded way and that it has provided global public goods has considerable plausibility. The post-World War II transformations of Germany and Japan into democracies and allies, America's support for the Bretton Woods institutions and the United Nations in the 1940s, and the support given to Western Europe through the Marshall Plan and to the "captive nations" of Eastern Europe during the Cold War provided broad public benefits to the global community even as they suited American strategic interests. The United States could easily have opted for isolationism instead, as many Americans argued up through the late 1940s, and might well have been less generous in its sustenance of allies throughout this period.'
Francis Fukuyama - After the Neocons, pg 103
It's funny to picture that way, tho
France: 'Where losers and earners make nothing but no one starves, and no one can afford air conditioning, so kiss your grand parents goodbye this summer!'
America: 'Get rich at the expense of the poor, but we'll jail you forever for the slightest thing and simple daily activities like buying groceries can result in O.K. corral shoot outs!'
Mexico: 'Have fun getting a fair trial or honest election here, but our food is cheap and fantastic!'
Starting to ramble on here, quite jet lagged after returning to the States after a month down under. Even down there, in one of the most America friendly countries in the Western World, there's still a sneering derision often aimed towards Americans, and those denying anti-Americanism exists remind me quite a bit of Americans from Alabama who deny outright that any racism towards blacks exists here. You're kidding yourselves.
Oh poor you.
Ok here it is just for you.
YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG, I AM WRONG.
I HATE AMERICA, because, it's an evil empire, it's a terrile place full of religous nut jobs, because i hate bush.Americans are arrogant, warmongering pratts.
WHY THE HECK DO I HATE FREEDOM?
What a lad of self righteous bollox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
Help after WWII, not only did you leave us to bleed for a year or two, you helped put us down the post-war toilet while readily helping our former enemies (that's fine but how about you help your freinds to?) So do not crap on about how you saved the world. Generous to us?
You bankrupted us and stopped us gaining from war time discoveries.
Think on that one and stop the sun from shining where it shouldn't!
Faithful allies my fat bottom!
GOD THE COMPLETE, ARGH!
Maybe its time for a cooldown?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
:laugh4:
I'm pretty sure that I did not tell a patron that i didn't want them in my country.
I was merley suggesting that one gets their facts strait before thay ask my country for a grovel.
Im pretty sure no one asked your country to grovel, are you sure you might not benefit from pushing away from the desk?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
Asking for a grovel? Not sure what you figure Germany deserved after WW2, I suppose a gift of cash and a pat on the back.
Anyway, anti-Americanism doesn't exist, if it does, it's balanced out by Americanism, Americans should shut up even if it does exist, and apparently we're kidnapping anyone with any talent to make it look like any advance made in the Western World was an American one. :D
No matter what, I still love you and Husar, Bopa.
:germany: ~:cheers: :unitedstates:
It's not silly, it's very logical. He hates Gadaffi more than anything in the world. He would be long gone if the US didn't help him. As such, he hates the US too. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, but the friend of my enemy is my enemy... He never said 'Arabs have the US to thank for their plight', he said that Libya have the US to thank for Gadaffi remaining in power. Whatever good they might have done to you pales when they have helped what you see as your greatest enemy and evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
And I find it funny how other Western countries accuse Americans of being arrogant and provinicial, and then act arrogantly and provinically by assuming the rest of the world likes like Australians or Germans. You don't think at some level the reason the average Bangladeshi has issues with the US is because they live in squalor, they look at us (although they should be looking at you as well) and ask themsleves "Why them, why not us?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmic
If somebody attributed all anti-American sentiment to nothing but envy and jealousy *cough* PJ *cough*, I might understand your point. But to claim it's not a factor shows as blinkered a world view as that of which you accuse us.
Oh yeah. People around the world ask "Who has the USA helped more than any other" and resoundingly, Qadaffi is at the tip of everyone's tongue. Give me a freaking break. :dizzy2: Why don't you actually read up on American-Libyan relations over the past 30 years before you present suchQuote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
rubbishalternative views of history. Here's a hint, Google "Tripoli, Reagan, airstrike".
I'm not arguing everything the USA does is right or even rightly intended. We do have our flaws, and I think it would surprise you all if we started a thread where Americans only posted what they thought America's flaws are. One thing I do note about Americans more than any other country in the world is our willingness to take an honest self assessment. Not that we're good at it all the time, but we're better than anybody else.
But honestly folks, listen to yourselves for a second. On the one hand you're saying one of the biggest problems with the USA is that it sticks its nose into other people's affairs. Damn Americans, don't they know any better? On the other, you say one of the biggest problems with Americans is that we don't do more to help out around the globe. Damn Americans, don't they know any better? I mean really, Bosnia: damned if we do, damned if we don't. When you put it in those terms, we have to dismiss your opinions from the equation, because you're not offering us a positive outcome.
And Bopa, dude, I love you. You're a hoot. Aren't you in Hungary? You're right, we didn't implement the Marshall plan in Hungary. I think Uncle Joe would have had few things to say about that. Sorry dude, we just didn't have it in us to force the USSR to abandon all of Europe. We tried. But at places like Potsdam and Yalta, old Uncle Joe was pretty taken with your fair land and made it clear we weren't allowed to play there, even nicely. If you have issues with us not rebuilding your country, I suggest you take it up with the folks that made sure we didn't. In other words, look East.
@ Don: Yet again you are far more eloquent in your presentation then I ever could be. Just dropping you a line letting you know its appreciated.
Also, we have openings in the "Isolationist Party" for a communications director, intrested ? :beam:
Actually I do not think that Bopa is German, considering this statement:Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
I think he is rather complaining that Germany did get a gift of cash and a pat on the back, while an ally (the British I assume?) did not receive similar post-war help. ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa
Apart from that, please keep this civil, folks.
Statements like these:
only provoke flaming and are certainly not a helpful contribution to any discussion.Quote:
What a lad of self righteous bollox.
Thanks
:bow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson
AjaxQuote:
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
@ajax and monthy python: The romans would have needed to be quite arrogant and ignorant to claim to have invented and spread sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health. There's a reason why millions of people sacrificed their lives for their people to liberate them from the roman empire, even hundreds of years after they were conquered.
And I thought this was a thread about the reasons for anti-americanism, not why those reasons are rubbish... His reason is very logical, the US has hurt him personally, and as such he doesn't like them. Very, very simple. It doesn't matter who they have helped, not helped, nor does it matter if they're usually negative towards the person in question(Gaddafi). When you wrong someone greatly enough, anything else you do pales. It doesn't matter if the US are generally hostile towards Gaddafi, they helped him once, and thus they will remain on the :daisy: forever, or at the very least until they assist(not invade, people generally don't like that...) in his overthrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
My own dislike of the US is very simple. I'm a socialist and the US is the exact opposite of that. It has almost everything that I hate in it. Religion, extreme capitalism, no welfare, soldiers, weak unions, the list goes on...
The bolded two are simply not true. And why do you hate soldiers? :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Compare with the welfare state and unions in western europe, for example Norway, and it becomes true. A strong union has a leader who can tell the prime minister to sit down and shut up. Gerd-Liv Valla, the leader of the largest union here did that. I doubt very much that a union leader in the US can dictate what Bush wants to do... And as for welfare, I refuse to call the horribly low amount you have as welfare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
As for soldiers, well, I don't hate them, as that would be silly considering I was one myself 5 months ago... But soldiers = army, army = war and war = killing people, and I hate that.
Well worldwide I would say the main reason would be Americas foriegn policies(dunno if that is accurately covered in the world police vote category?) .
Probably becuse as it is a powerful nation itspolicies have a bigger impact , and when they stink they get noticed more .
Lichtenstein might have some really rubbish foriegn policies , but who notices them .
So now that many people have picked some choices here and there in the poll, what does it tell us exactly?
That based on the poll results there is no firm concensus as to the cause, other then to say that it does exsist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijo
Word, and it only takes one look at a Green Day or Linkin Park clip to realize that it's trendy to hate America. Even if your pate contains little more than a Brussels sprout and your opinions are about as informed as the Pope's on the Kama Sutra...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Except for this, the reason, wich most people that I know that have anti-Americanistic feelings have, is the Bush administration really. Before that there weren't that much of those feelings. Okay you've got leftwinged semi lextremists which also hate US's capitalism, they do have some points tough, but mostly it's Iraq and stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
However negative feeling towards people/corporations/nations/religions/... don't have to have a base of good reasons. It just needs media attention and things like that. If there are good reasons, most wouldn't even know them. If you ask the average joe, if he "hates" the US and why, most of them can't come up with ny decent reasons and arguments and if they do 99% of the time it's something about Iraq. Than you have that select few who can formulate decent arguments and things that are negative about the US, but those are almost never Anti-American. And rightfully so. (They do tend to be anti-bush sometimes tough)
Personally, I figure this is sig material. Especially given the topic and context. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I'm Anti-American because of the hypocritical visa policy that makes acces to the US almost impossible, because hamburgers cause me stomach cramps ...... and because Americans who come to Romania are either CIA operatives handling suspected Al-Quaeda terrorists or weekend warriors searching of vampyers.
And I'm Anti-American because Americans copy anything they deem as cool than export it as "American merchendise". Just look at Las Vegas and puke. How can you copy Venice or Luxor and make it a casino for country bumpkins. It's obscene. For Americans if someone copied a XP CD that counts as piracy but if you copy an important foreign landmark and call that American it's commerce as usual.
America has gained power not because the settlers ware better than people who remained in the Old World but because of the virgin resources found in the New World that allowed industry to boom faster than in the Old World. Europe had more know-how than America but rich antreprenours simply baught all that know-how with Indian gold, how conveniant. And after that they just expand overseas.
Try sepparating Marketing from Culture and people will be less biased towards Amerigo
:inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronos Impera
Yep Ser Clegane, check the balance sheet for US mega-corporations and see how much brain-power they buy from Europe.
I have seen lots of balance sheets of US companies. Never saw an item on the balance sheet for brain-power purchased from Europe (no mentioning of Indian gold either, I'd like to add)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronos Impera
This is supposed to be a good thing? I've got to say, on the whole, I'm pretty satisfied with completely unelected organised labour not being able to bully our democracy.Quote:
A strong union has a leader who can tell the prime minister to sit down and shut up.
I don't know about your neck of the woods, but around here union leadership is elected by the membership. And their clout over even the state comes quite simply from being the duly authorised spokesmen for a very large (or merely influental) part of the workforce.
Plus factually they negotiate. Major strikes and similar strong-arm tactics (and the equivalents on the employer side), once all but a regular occurrence, are rather passé these days and beating out a mutually benefical compromise is the order of the day.
Doesn't mean they couldn't throw their weight around when the opportunity presents itself of course. But who doesn't ?