It seems like the stones are more accurate than the flaming pitchballs, albeit without the terror effect. What ammo do y'all use with onagers in the field? Thanks
IceWolf
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It seems like the stones are more accurate than the flaming pitchballs, albeit without the terror effect. What ammo do y'all use with onagers in the field? Thanks
IceWolf
I rarely even use onagers, but have found that they are much more useful in the field than trying to use them to defend a city wall.
When in the field with them, if I'm attacked, I set them as high on the terrain as I can post them during the deployment phase. Then I try to put space between them so that a stray round doesn't hit another onager, and use flaming ammo until it runs out.
I'd never noticed improved or worse accuracy depending upon the ammunition used, but will watch for it in the future. It seems to me that the dang things fly all over the place.
Using them to defend a city, they probably do more damage to my own walls than anything an enemy does. Now, I just park them on the town square, and have Fire at Will turned OFF!
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
I have never been an Onager person, I'm an infantry sort of guy myself, but, on the rare occasion I do use them in R:TW, I use flaming missiles. Although they seem to be less accurate, and the manual confirms this, when they hit anything they cause both more damage, and they hit the enemy's morale hard.
In cities, if I ever have a unit in one, I only use them if I have walls on the lower levels than stone walls - this enables me to fire over them and hit their men/rams. Otherwise, I just put them somewhere to be forgotten.
In field battles (defending), if I have onagers, I always deploy my army as far away from the enemy as I can. As the enemy approaches, I have them fire away. Sometimes I try to target their general. When the enemy gets close I let the onagers withdraw. This way I don't need to defend them.
Onagers are excellent weapons IMO.
First, while defending I place them just behind the first defending infantry line in order to prevent them to hit my troops. Bombard the enemy with fire balls, if you are lucky enough sometimes enemy general gets a hit and dies at the very beginning of the battle.
Secondly, onagers are very useful for offensive purposes. If enemy gets a good position higher ground vs. then bring your onagers and kill them. Most of the time they will not move and die, but in some cases they will run.
So, I find them very useful and spectacular :2thumbsup:
If ever I use them, it's with flaming ammo and deployed just behind my infantry so they can't hit them (they never really hit 2m in front of them). When the enemy are close, I stop them firing and charge with infantry, flank with cavalry as usual. However, you should ALWAYS keep at least 1 cavalry unit behind to protect them - the enemy cavalry loves charging in and massacring your precious artillerymen (as I'd do to them).
But generally, I can usually never be bothered in campaign to drag onagers for 10 years from the one city which can build them to the front, only to have them destroy each other or get mowed down by infantry - I mainly use siege towers for big walls, rams for wooden ones and infantry/cavalry for pitched battles.
I think onagers are best for "joke" custom battles - e.g. 1 stack of onagers firing across a river at the enemy whilst they try to rush across the bridge and meet them.
FYI-I was never an onager person til I started my Scythian campaign. I have relatively useless infantryy so I drag 3 of them with me to knock down city walls during seiges. But if I'm in a field battle i figure I might as well use them as beast I can.
IceWolf
I use onagers only because they add something extra to the game. When defending though, it's good to have an onager. I usually deploy my army on the far edge of the battlefield as i can, with the onagers on the back, if possible on the higher ground. I let the enemy approach in firing range, and then, aim my onagers to the enemy general. In one particular battle, the first volley killed just one enemy - it was their general:laugh4:. I usually use boulders, because the flaming ammo seems to hit everything but the enemy:furious3: . Once, in one of my first battles that i have used them, i order to fire flaming ammo, and one shot hit one of my triarii in the back, killing some 7 or 8 of them. :wall:
When attacking a settlement with wooden walls, the onager will brake the gates much faster than the ram.
With onagars, i always tended to use them with normal, not flaming ammo, because it meant that you could take out whole ranks of men. That and it as a hell of a lot more accurate.
With defensive battles, i never found them to be that much use, because the enemy just tends to charge in. I find it much better it when im attacking.
for me,onagers is a lot useful for destroying enemy siege towers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celt Centurion
For stone walls,taking down those siege towers,it reduces the walls you must cover from defending it,letting your archers spend all their arrows before get into melee combat(if those arrows didn't take out your enemies)
for large stone walls and epic stone walls,since the siege tower and battering ram are the only siege weapon to get into city,then after destroying enemy siege tower with your onagers,enemy will have to take out your gate.Even they succeed in doing so,they will have to deal with your boiling oil, "welcome gift" from your archers and "fans" waiting at the gate to welcome them with lots of swords and spear instead of flowers...:laugh4:
me too!:2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroSK
I've almost never used onagers, I find that they have such low movement points on the campaign map that I get impatient and can't be bothered to keep them in my offensive armies.
flaming boulders have a knack for finding the best path from the onager to the ground - that is, passing through the enemy general's soon lifeless body.
Also, they are the best remedy to elephants, as they can make the elephants panic far away from your own fodder, err men.
I love to use onagers both defensively and offensively, and I try to have 2 or 3 in each of my "full" stacked armies.Typically I play H/H and they are great for lowering the moral of the enemy troops. I usually use a combination of rocks and fireballs - rocks for the general because it seems to me that they are more accurate and fire for the infantry.
Onagers dominate bridge crossings and are very effective in forts. When I decide an enemy city must fall there is no waiting to build siege equipment - just move in, knock down the walls, destroy any troops near the breaches and march right in.
Guineawolf is correct about the wall types in defensive fighting - onagers cannot shoot over the larger wall types but in that case I just put them in the town center and wait the enemy to enter - I can usually get off several rounds before they close and most times the enemy reaches your town center piecemeal which allows me to cut them to pieces before they even can close for combat.
I have to admit that they do require some micro management to get the most out of them and so they don't mow your own men down along with the enemy. Because I use them regularly they "rank" up quite quickly. With 2 or three onagers with triple silver chevrons there is no enemy that can stand my bombardments for long. As far as moving them around on the strategic map - make a plan, anticipate where you need to go, get them moving early and you will find that it is easy to have them where you need them most. As a side note I use allot of spies to keep tabs on my neighbors armies. With a decent intelligence network I never have a problem fielding the "wrong" kind of army.
I do use onagres. Stones are useful only against walls. Against people they're mostly useless. Thus, enemy forces are to be eliminated only by fireballs.
Using them in field is little problematic because everything's moving and the situation changes every second. However some success is to be expected when you have the Greek falanxes moving on to you, for instance.
Using onagres in defending a town is also possible. But only if you have wooden walls. When your town has stonewall, it's not wise to deploy artillery at all.
It would be dumb not to use Onagers if your faction has them. I always use mine, and I have gotten them to high experience levels (which will improve their accuracy). When attacking, I don't engage the enemy until all my onagers have exhausted all their ammo. At this point, half of the enemy army is usually gone, including the general.
Use flaming ammo, as you can take out 10-20 men in one shot. Don't get frustrated if some shots totally miss. The shots that hit are more than worth it. Aim for the middle of the army, so the errant shots will still hit troops. Also aim for the high value targets, such as the general and his bodyguard.
Usually, the general is in the middle of the army, so aiming for him works doubly. I usually aim for the general until his unit is gone or down to 2-3 men, and then aim for the center-most infantry unit, hopefully an elite heavy unit like hoplites.
Don't attack until all the ammo is gone. At this point, the enemy army is reduced by half, they have lost their general, and their morale is shot due to all the firebombs. They will run away not long after you engage them. It makes for quick, easy battles.
...yeah, but only if you're on the offensive and the enemy sit there like idiots. If they're advancing, then you can only get a couple of shots in before you need to engage infantry and stop the artillery from wiping out your army. Plus they need a cavalry unit to babysit them and stop them melee-fighting anyone.
But, certainly, if you've got an enemy just sitting tight and being defensive, knock yourself out.
onagers are great to have on a battle. when the enemy is at range hit them with your fire ammo. try targeting compact units or a center of a line to increase your chance of hitting a target. if your target marches in close range, switch to normal ammo; which is more accurate and still deadly.
That's why I always go on the offensive. 95% of the battles I fight are offensive. If attacked, sometimes I'll even retreat and then attack if I don't like some of the conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Herenow
Just be the aggressor, and then be careful not to march your army too close. The enemy won't advance on you.
Hmm, but that does kinda ruin the game - it's basically exploiting the AI - because, although I don't know about you, I wouldn't stand around whilst getting bombarded by flaming rocks, no matter what my general told me.
i always keep one onager in my armies cause i don't like to wait a turn to build
a ram or other siege equipment when i besiege a settlement
I bring two since, unupgraded and unexperience, one cannot take a city alone. :kid:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanar
Yeah, if you're taking a city with stone walls you need two or three.
Icewolf
I think it's a balance though - if you've got a city which can build onagers and is on the "front line", then sure, build some and let them "spill out" and conquer the neighbouring territories, that will definitely save you some time. However, it is much faster to wait 1-2 turns building rams/towers than marching your onagers across a long distance, which might waste 6+ turns.
For example, don't use onagers to get to that city with Amazons in it (the one where you have to walk round a forest) - it takes long enough with infantry!
yup Icewolf, three onagers are good for having two entry points: a wall and the gate. ~D
Herenow: well, you don't need to wait for your onagers.. you can continue sieging with rams and towers while waiting for your onagers to arrive (properly escorted against rebels) to seige the next city. I think onagers are always worth it, for the the reinforcements they prevent, the casualties they save, and, if you like, inflict!
I usually have a "siege fleet" travelling along the coast close to my land army, then when a siege begins the Onagers, etc are only a turn or 2 behind.Quote:
I find that they have such low movement points on the campaign map that I get impatient and can't be bothered to keep them in my offensive armies.
Obviously doesn't really work away from the mediterranean, but its useful and lets you blockade too.
Stone ammo is more accurate...I like using onagers during bridge battles. I position them on the flanks and usually target a slow moving formation (spearmen and target them until they reach the far end of the bridge them I shift to a deeper target. In field battles I usually target the enemy general, phalanxes, or schilltron formations.
but we can also add those retinue that add bonus to army movement point such as:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldmaiden
quartermaster(+15% army movement point,+2% to loot),
geographer(+15% army movement point,+10% to tax income),
drillmaster(+25% army movement point),
these retinue can help a lot with army movement even with onagers i think,i never thought about slow movement......just keep moving.....:yes:
My use of onager in field were never intentionally, instead it always happen when enemy faction try to hold of my army advances to siege their settlement. But I always use flaming ammo in the field since it spread damage to larger area and kill more slow moving infantry. But always remember to post some sentry to guard the onager.
I keep wavering, while it seems like the pitch kills more, the stones are more accurate plus they skip on the ground like cannonballs and can make multiple hits against the massed Roman scum. I'll try the pitchballs again though.
Onagers and Heavy Onagers:
Stone against walls for best damage. Burning buildings is pretty useless unless you can hit the palace and your intention is to leave the city a wreck. In that case, Breach with stone, Flame Balls to burn the palace and then kill all the towers you can with remaining stone.
In the field, I mostly use Flame Balls. Accuracy is poor against a moving target or a target that's adjusting lines frequently. So make each hit a blast.
Caveat: If you are firing along the bias of a unit, down the length of a bridge or some such -- where the skipping ball can whack many in a given file -- then stone is slightly more accurate and generates more kills. Against blocs, the Flame Balls kill more.
Ballista, Scorpions:
Almost always use stone. Not much "blast effect" from these, so bouncing stones/bolts for multiple kills is the way to go.
Shieldmaiden is correct as to the best mobility for onagers. Works well save for Russia.
I found another use of onager (heavy) is to soften the enemy in case they decided to wait for your army to charge in, (example: your Roman Legion is facing veteran phalanx army wich also had some companion cavalry on their flank) then those onager will come very useful.
I disagreeQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_kiss
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...seigetower.gif
I rarely find use for onagers. They are way to slow for my style of battle.
My first campaign i was seleucid ( ya I haxed it) In the early days of warfare I didnt have the tech level. By the time I had got to a tech level i began to fight romans and focused on other units. Nothing like a full stack consisting of half chariots and half cataphracts to make the romans cry!( I literally defeated 3 roman armys at one with this with minimal casualties)
Nice video Afkazar, even if it does pose a rather serious problem for dial-up users :P
They still exist?! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fwapper
Afkazar, that's a pretty nifty video, might give that a try.
Also, @ the OP. If you want to be nasty, edit your descr_projectiles_new.txt and give your onager missiles accuracy_vs_units 0.0001 or something hideous like that, and increase the area for flaming ammo to something like 20. Start up a battle and enjoy the results. :laugh4:
Nice, Afkazar. I was just wandering around and found this. I've used the same tactic, but it has been so long since I've played Vanilla.
Yes I'm afraid so. Personally I think they should all be shot, the barbarians...Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Herenow
^ lol :laugh4:
I use onagers.
When I played in custom battles, I tried to not play with onagers.
But...
Some day, I started to destroy Romans as the Greeks.They used onagers, and they used fire.
The first shot killed the general.Unbeliable!
So, I started to use that too.When you use onagers, you meet the signicate of the words : Friendly Fire.
XD