Striking out on my own...advice.

As I can't live in halls at university next year, I have been obliged to go about renting a property. After many viewings and tramping around London, me and my housemates have finally found a place we like at a price we can just about afford, and we're going to put a deposit down tomorrow.

So, I was wondering, do some of our older members have any advice? Things to watch out for/pitfalls for the unwary related to renting, tips for dealing with landlords, etc? This whole thing is terrifyingly adult, and I feel somewhat out of my depth.

Thanks in advance.

Make sure you see the relevant safety certificates. CORGI for the gas for example.

Negotiate the rent, don't get ripped off by a modern day Rachman.

Get used to eating beans as a main meal. :laugh4:

Don't let any mucky women stay overnight. :sweatdrop:

Just say NO! to drugs. :clown:

Above all....enjoy. :2thumbsup:

Refrigerators are meant for keeping fresh food, not mutants.

If it's no landlord, but a land.... mistress(?), and she happens to be good-looking and such, well... you know what to do. Might save you some cash once in a while.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Just say NO! to drugs. :clown:

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Horsepoo. It's all about responsibility. If you stay aware of what you are doing, drugs (I hate that word...) are not a problem. That's not saying that you should willingly snort a half-gram of Ketamine a day or choose to start shooting up on Heroin. But if you just smoke a joint once a week or something, and stay subtle about it, you will not have a problem.

Just because it's illegal doesn't make it wrong. And just because it's legal doesn't make it right.

Edit: almost forgot: MAKE SURE EVERYONE ELSE IS FINE WITH WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. Don't try to force drug and/or alcohol use around someone who doesn't like living with it.

Check what the deposit covers , make sure any damage/faults already existing are noted down so you don't get stung for them at the end of your lease .
If you decide to have a big party in advance , as opposed to just having a big party happen , remove or cover the carpets and take out all the furniture .
Check the utility meters (if the house is metered ) some landlords heavily fix them , alternatively wire the house to the nearest street light .

After you've addressed the lease document, and what it covers, your 2nd hurdle will be your flat-mates, themselves.

Sit them all down for a serious discussion about the division of labour (who cooks, who cleans, & "borrowing other's property" policy, for starters), and actually play "worst-case scenario", that is, what to do as a group when one can't/won't pay his share of rent, or do the dishes, or return a borrowed TV, or stop eating your can of beans.

It'll happen, even among the best of pals, so plan for it, rather than hoping it won't happen. Doing this early-on is easiest, in my experience. After about 90 days, it gets increasingly difficult to set rules.

And, if you throw a party, always invite the nearest neighbors, to cut down on noise complaints.

If the utilities are not included with the rent, then be aware that if you put them in your name, and your housemates skip out without paying their share, you will be responsible for paying the bill.

Pay the rent on time and you'll stay in the landlord's good graces. A day late is still late.

Be a considerate neighbor to the surrounding tenants. Use common sense about music volume, slam dancing, loud partying, especially late at night. Quiet debauchery = good debauchery.

Any food or refreshment you put in the fridge is fair game, so don't get too upset when you get home and expect to drink that beer and munch on those snacks you've been hoarding and somebody beat you to it.

You'll find out just how good your friendships are after sharing the same living space, especially the bathroom.Hide an emergency roll of toilet paper in your room. Nothing like doing your business and then discovering your forgetful roommate used the last of it and didn't bother to replace it.

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Check what the deposit covers , make sure any damage/faults already existing are noted down so you don't get stung for them at the end of your lease .

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As Tribesman stated. If you have a camera phone take some pics to document any damage that already existed.

Enjoy your new adventure. :2thumbsup:

Rent a place with a dishwasher. Most important appliance in a house with multiple male roommates. If your place doesn't have one, expect a pile of dishes in the sink 3 feet high. Cleaning the bathroom and doing the dishes are the 2 chores that just will not get done. After a while you may need to institute a penalty/reward system for these (maybe free utilities for the guy who does the dishes).

Ah, since Kukri-sensei stated it, I have a few words about being homemates (labeled "4 years of experience").

I really can't make on-the-spot recommendations about how to technically be a tenant, obviously since I'm not a UK citizen nor living somewhere in Europe.

However about being homemates...Well, I have to say that how it can feel like hell while you are alive can be due to some disturbance/discord at home. People transform into something mutant-ish at home; your best friend may be feeling okay with socks in a frying pan while you don't think you'll ever feel like using that again.

Or simply about the harmony, the mutual understanding, how one reacts in certain situations, how far he is considerate about your privacy, how he takes it when you're angry etc.

As a university graduate I can easily tell you hundreds of "homemates to hellmates" stories. When you're more than two people sharing a house, for example, you should be careful about "polarizations". "Buds" may feel it right to alienate "the other(s)" at home.

While being exactly clear and honest, creating balances and owning the bridles of the relationships among homemates always is more profitable for a comfortable shared-home life. Keeps you aware, in control and lets others feel right about each other and problems will get solved before getting anymore complicated. This way of behavior helps all homemates to grow as adults having strong and honest personalities with a sharp mind and just-in-time common sense.

Good luck on a serious experience of your lifetime. :bow:

P.S. A common video game liked by all pwns. :2thumbsup:

Thanks for the advice all, it's much appreciated.

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P.S. A common video game liked by all pwns.

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Heh, this was one of my plans to help grease the wheels.

All the advice offered thus far is good. It was my experience that keeping my roommates honest was much tougher than dealing with my landlord (I only shared an apartment once). One roommate wouldn't do housework and the other wouldn't pay his bills. However, we did remain friends, due mainly to a Sega Genesis and our John Madden '94 league.

When it comes to food, you can have cheap, easy tasty. Choose any 2 of these 3. It's entirely possible to eat like kings on a relatively light budget, but be prepared to do some serious cooking to get that flavor out of your sub-par ingrediants. Spices tend to be worth every penny (yes, there's a reason Marco Polo went on a 6000 mile trek).

Also, if your landlord/landlady is local to the building (i.e. not a slumlord), volunteer occassionally to help out with a chore or two on the property (spreading salt on icy walks, etcetera). It's not that tough and the goodwill it'll buy you should come in handy if you for some shocking reason, you actually need to be a little late with the rent.

When it comes to that... remember, your rent may very likely be your landlord's sole source of income. You might view it as a 'get Mrs. X rich' slush fund, but she may be using it to pay a bill or buy groceries. If you know you're going to be a little late, try to give your landlord/lady as much notice as possible. They really will appreciate it.

Y'know, it's really not hard at all to bake a chicken and heat some baked beans and premade stuffed potatoes... just saying. All it takes is a little practice (basically, just ask someone who knows).

Pretend you're really poor and are hardly cutting it and that you need to eat at somebody else's place in the building (some neighbour somewhere). Even if you're lying (and even if somebody might know you're lying), it's for fun and kicks, and you might even eat for free, heh heh :saint:

If somebody really knows you're lying, you might make a better joke out of it by wearing poor ragged clothing and coming at their door, as you shakily hold a poor rusty can in your hand for money or it's filled with some liquid, shivering from the cold (even if the weather's warm), and in the other hand a poor-looking piece of dry bread.
Hah hah! Exaggerate as much as you can; it can be fun! :beam:

Seriously, it might work with roommates. If a roommate's been paying for your food a couple days and he/she gets a little irritated, an exaggerated joke like that could do wonders as you enforce laughter upon 'em (if you're good), easing off the irritation.


Another thing is to make use of the confusion of your landlord/landlady. If they think you've paid the rent already (somehow(!), but this case probably won't happen) but you know you didn't, pretend you paid already.
But it might be a trick! Maybe they're testing if you're honest or not.

Or observe 'em for some time to know where they stash the collected cash (temporarily), depending of course how it's collected and in what form. You might retrieve your dough if you're sneaky and skilled enough.

Or what about asking a couple of friends to rob the landlord/landlady opportunistically?


I think I should stop right now: I might give you bad ideas ~:wacko: Hey, it's the Frontroom, heh heh!

I don't know the ritual for paying the bills in England, heat, electricity, TV, and all that, but if one person is responsible for collecting from the others and paying the bills, make sure he actually pays them. I know of several instances where the person collected from his roomies but never paid the bills. A month or two or three later and big surprises would happen real fast.

Make a deal that receipts are to be kept up to date and shown to all roomies.

Make sure you document all of your expenses month to month, that way, You'll know for a fact what you paid for and what you didn't. If your living with roomies, this can ease the burdeon of pointing fingers.

Set the house rules BEFORE you move in, you can even draw up legal documents about paying bills/ what do do if someone wants to move out / people moving in etc.

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Make sure you see the relevant safety certificates. CORGI for the gas for example.

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Can I just repeat this one because its really important? I nearly lost a flatmate due to CO poisoning thanks to our rackmanlike landlord when I was at Uni. The gas board went ape when we called them round, though sadly not ape enough to prosecute the *********.

Also, about the one legal right you have as a tenant is that the landlord can't come poking in. Private landlords don't seem to understand this. If you find he/she is just dropping by uninvited, the FIRST time it happens, politely ask them to stop. I remeber coming home one day to find a note on our washing machine from the landlord saying "machine broken- will get it fixed". WTF? (1) It wasn't broken that morning and (2) what were you doing using our washing machine?

Communal stuff is tricky, as it depends on your friends. I had a flat where there was a common kitty, people just did whatever shopping we needed without being asked, cooking and cleaning more or less just happened, and everything was hunky dory. Then I had a house which...wasn't quite the same. (Though after we kicked out the fly in the ointment all was well again for years).

Do be clear about what is "house" property and comes out of the kitty. Oh, and if you get to the stage where people have their own loo roll: start looking to move out.

Oh yeah, and try not to pay the last month's rent. Chances are the ******* will try to keep the deposit anyway so you might as well call it the rent. If there really is any damage to pay for you can always write a cheque

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Oh yeah, and try not to pay the last month's rent. Chances are the ******* will try to keep the deposit anyway so you might as well call it the rent. If there really is any damage to pay for you can always write a cheque

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:yes:

Very important this one!

As for paying the bills, maybe you can open a common (communal?) bankaccount, put one or two people in charge of making sure the payments are done in time and make sure everyone can check at any time the movements on that bankaccount.

And do as Kukri said: make a set of rules. And if somebody doesn't do what he/she is supposed to do (e.g. cleaning, doing the dishes after he/she cooked, and all those little yet very annoying thingies...), talk about it asap. React. Don't let it go, don't let it happen and wait to react until it happens a second or a third time, just respond to it immediately.

And if all goes well and you don't have "a rotten apple in the basket", you will have LOADS of fun.

And enjoy the practical jokes :grin:

I've got this image of EA living large as one of the Young Ones. The only question I have is which one. You were Mike, weren't you, EA?

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

I've got this image of EA living large as one of the Young Ones. The only question I have is which one. You were Mike, weren't you, EA?

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ROFLMAO

You are SO right....

I was sort of a fusion of Neal and Vyvyan. I used to try to keep the place clean, would buy food, cook, etcetera. My roommates (one in particular) would leave a sinkful of dirty dishes and eat anything you brought into the house. When I reached my boiling point, I would go absolutely postal (though I don't remember ever actually taking a cricket bat to anyone). I did throw $50 bucks of my roommates clothes in the trash one time, when I brought a date home and found his dirty laundry, underwear included, strewn about the kitchen.

I think our university newpaper had an interesting article a few weeks back. According to it, beginning this year if you rent out a flat from a landlord as a student, you can demand that the deposit be held (i.e. the landlord has to pay it to) the council to watch over it.
Quite a good scheme IMO as last year I've had problems with a landlord who ended up not wanting to pay back the deposit even though nothing was broken saying this year's flat suggestion he only made so he could keep our old deposit as "concession" which of course is both illegal and nonsensical. After a few months of tug-o-war and threatening legal action and getting the university office involved, he finally paid back. So yes, get a trustworthy landlord and make sure everything is covered in your contract. If there's something unclear but the landlord verbally tells you that something you ask about is included, have him add it to the contract in writing because he can later argue it was not included.
And general rule of course is to take inventory of the flat when you move in, take dated pictures to prove any obvious problems and less obvious problems such as plumbing, leaks etc.

Good luck with your flat in any case. I am still looking for one for next academic year.

Where are you studying, FH?

Imperial. Currently undergrad, coming academic year as post grad.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

After you've addressed the lease document, and what it covers, your 2nd hurdle will be your flat-mates, themselves.

Sit them all down for a serious discussion about the division of labour (who cooks, who cleans, & "borrowing other's property" policy, for starters), and actually play "worst-case scenario", that is, what to do as a group when one can't/won't pay his share of rent, or do the dishes, or return a borrowed TV, or stop eating your can of beans.

It'll happen, even among the best of pals, so plan for it, rather than hoping it won't happen. Doing this early-on is easiest, in my experience. After about 90 days, it gets increasingly difficult to set rules.

And, if you throw a party, always invite the nearest neighbors, to cut down on noise complaints.

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QFT. I can't speak in too much detail to the actual renting details, but I've got a bit of experience with roommates. A couple other issues you might consider bringing up early are the thermostat (can get surprisingly contentious) and policies for having friends or significant other's over.

Also

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Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito

Hide an emergency roll of toilet paper in your room. Nothing like doing your business and then discovering your forgetful roommate used the last of it and didn't bother to replace it.

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And

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

P.S. A common video game liked by all pwns.

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Wise words.

Ajax

Going back to the Young Ones thingy, with hair like that BKS is a must for Neil.....:hippie: :thrasher: :hippy: :sunny: :mad: :toilet:


Oh and who are you trying to kid EA? I'd have you down as a Rick. :laugh4:

Don't drop the soap.... no matter what!

Up here, where I am, just so long as there's gin, we're happy.

More seriously, no two rooms are the same, and rent should be (in my opinion) calculated accordingly. (Next year, our plan is that rent will be equal, but money will be put into the booze fund according to room size)

Critically important: if any one of you has a problem, air it immediately. Letting things fester leads to distinctly unpleasant levels of tension in a flat. Speak up about difficulties and solve them there and then. And remember, people are different to each other, and some may, no matter what, not change. You just have to learn to accomodate each other's peculiarities.

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More seriously, no two rooms are the same, and rent should be (in my opinion) calculated accordingly. (Next year, our plan is that rent will be equal, but money will be put into the booze fund according to room size)

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Yes, we're planning to do this as two of the bedrooms in the house are substantially larger than the other three. I'm not too bothered about having a large room so it'll save me some money.

So 4 roomies, then?

A large enterprise. One advantage of such a half-squad of guys, is that the other 4 can pick up the slack when someone has a 'down' month, without wrecking everyone's finances.

Will you all be named individually on the lease, and how long is it? I assume the standard would be "end of the academic year", requiring a renegotiation afterwards.

Anyone willing to rent out a 5-bedroom joint to students has presumeably got lots of experience with them. I wouldn't count on ever being able to hoodwink that person.

Of course, we do expect pictures of the happy move-in day (and of your landlord and roomies).

gl & hf!!

Oh, you'll need at least two fridges. Probably a third. One of which should be maintained with a stock of beer, tonic and champagne, lemons &c. &c.

Another thing, learn to wash up as you cook - it's much faster to clean pans and things before everything's encrusted on, and help stop the build up of massive towers of mouldy dishes.

Also, try to avoid neglecting chores because it's someone else's mess/turn. Do it, then talk to them about it. That way, at least there isn't a festering pile of whatever somewhere in the house.

Just let it all come to you and have a good time. Work with a weekly budget at first, groceries can be pretty expensive, you don't want to call the last days of the month the whitebeansintomatoesausedays. Plan a little. Whatever you do not take a loan when you are short on cash, better to starve then to starve with debts.

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you don't want to call the last days of the month the whitebeansintomatoesausedays

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Pah. When I were a student we had whitebeansintomatoesauceyears. And swedes. Never did me any harm etc etc. Fry some own-brand tomato puree, add some value spaghetti and "mixed herbs", why, you could almost be in Bologna.

Of course this is what happens when you set aside £10 per week for all food, so as to maintain the beer budget at a healthy level (beer does contain calories, after all, thereby killing two birds with one stone).

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Pah. When I were a student we had whitebeansintomatoesauceyears. .

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It shows, oh the benefits of nutrition ~;)

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Will you all be named individually on the lease, and how long is it? I assume the standard would be "end of the academic year", requiring a renegotiation afterwards.

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Annoyingly the standard lease around here is twelve months. Every place I've tried to rent has been the same. It's extremely irritating, as it means I'll have to pay over the summer when I'm probably not going to be there a lot.

As far as food goes, the two girls in the house are both fantastic cooks, and the house is actually above a kebab shop ( :2thumbsup: ), so I'm hoping we shouldn't have a problem there.

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It shows, oh the benefits of nutrition

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Ah, cultural disconnect. You have to imagine me with my IA voice on, saying "eeh, when I were a lad, we were doon t'pit from dawn til doosk, an all'us ad fer dinner were coal."

To which IA replies "Looxury. When I were a lad I ad ter gerrup before us went ta bed..." etc.

It was a sketch but I can't remember where from, the Goodies?

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

As far as food goes, the two girls in the house are both fantastic cooks, and the house is actually above a kebab shop ( :2thumbsup: ), so I'm hoping we shouldn't have a problem there.

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My piece of advice is to learn to cook yourself, and offer regularly to make these girls their supper. Not only will you avoid making the serious mistake of assuming that the girls should cook because they're girls, but they will tell their friends of your selflessness and ability - and you will be the recipient of some very welcome attention.

Even surer than cooking in a house with women, is volunteering to clean the loos. It's a dead easy job, but you won't believe the kudos you get for it. This works a gem when you get married too.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

It was a sketch but I can't remember where from, the Goodies?

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Python, who else?

Make sure you get a written contract from whoever you are leasing from and do not be afraid of taking them to task for breaching the agreement if the do.

Buy food in bulk. Get the 3 for 2 and 2 for 1 deals.

Do NOT strike up a relationship if at all possible with the girls you're living with otherwise it will be very uncomfortable if and when it falls apart.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Ah, cultural disconnect. You have to imagine me with my IA voice on, saying "eeh, when I were a lad, we were doon t'pit from dawn til doosk, an all'us ad fer dinner were coal."

To which IA replies "Looxury. When I were a lad I ad ter gerrup before us went ta bed..." etc.

It was a sketch but I can't remember where from, the Goodies?

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You'll be thinking about Ecky Thump!

Wrong side of the Pennines mate. (The right side for me :2thumbsup: )

A poor mans Python IMO.

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My piece of advice is to learn to cook yourself, and offer regularly to make these girls their supper. Not only will you avoid making the serious mistake of assuming that the girls should cook because they're girls, but they will tell their friends of your selflessness and ability - and you will be the recipient of some very welcome attention.

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Actually, that does look a bit sexist now that I read it back. I was merely hoping to strike some kind of deal in which I'd do their share of other housework in return for delicious meals. Although perhaps it would be worthwhile to learn to cook myself.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Even surer than cooking in a house with women, is volunteering to clean the loos. It's a dead easy job, but you won't believe the kudos you get for it. This works a gem when you get married too.

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And my advice would be to read this very, very carefully.

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Originally Posted by Grey_Fox

Do NOT strike up a relationship if at all possible with the girls you're living with otherwise it will be very uncomfortable if and when it falls apart.

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And when it does not fall apart, you'll end up married with her...

:smitten: --> :ballchain:

One thing I consider most important, treat others as you'd want to be treated. Clean up after yourself as much as possible, offer to help out when possible, and try to eat with the whole house once every so often or do something else together. Do those things and life becomes a lot easier and more fun.

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

Actually, that does look a bit sexist now that I read it back. I was merely hoping to strike some kind of deal in which I'd do their share of other housework in return for delicious meals. Although perhaps it would be worthwhile to learn to cook myself.

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Trust me, it's worth it. I couldn't cook at all a year ago. Moving out, cooking for myself (and seventy others, on occasion) taught me the hard and best way how to cook cheap, tasty meals. Don't rely on microwave dishes, no matter how tempting; I know they are in England and my nephews do it all the time, but its far more worthwhile to cook for yourself and doubly so if you can find cheap but decent fresh stuff. The last couple of months I've been trying a lot of new things, and decent cooking has worked wonders on more than one date (from both sides!).

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Originally Posted by Somebody Else

Also, try to avoid neglecting chores because it's someone else's mess/turn. Do it, then talk to them about it. That way, at least there isn't a festering pile of whatever somewhere in the house.

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Expanding on this advince, make sure you keep to the agreed schedule even if the rest doesn't always do so. Otherwise you really don't have good cause to point the finger at the others, do you? In my experience once such agreements break down it's very hard to get everybody to abide by them again.
In my place (3 people) we have a household box where people pay a fine of 5 bucks if they neglect to clean their part of the house for a given week.

And with 4 people I also recommend having at least 3 fridges. Us 3 can manage with one big and one smaller, but we couldn't possibly do so with an additional roommate.

Oh yeah, get your own (small) fridge. I got one cheaply from someone who was moving out of Leiden, and its more than worth the price if you want to stock up and prevent 'losing' stuff.

BKS, you're accepting au pairs ? I'll bring an Xbox 360. :angel:

Hmmmm, let me try and think of stuff. Avoid "competitive video games" if your roommates (or one of them) are(/is) easily irritated by loss. I've seen people get so pissed off because of games, it's not funny anymore, even if you win.

Oh I forgot, liver, learn to love it.

If the place doesn't already have a dishwasher, get one. I swear it is the greatest invention mankind has ever made.. Especially around exam periods.. Believe me, the dishes tend to reach skyscraper proportions when you have exams every other day and have to repeat 4-500 pages or so to each one.. Leaves little time and energy to do the dishes..

Hello Din! Haven't seen you for a while.

Thanks for the tip.

Perhaps. I always do the dishes as soon as I've finished eating, if only because I only have the one and not enough other stuff to be able to leave it for a day... only takes five minutes, tops.

@ BKS, no I am pretty much a lurker these days, but I visit the site everyday (it is my startup page..). But I have not been around much the last year because I have served my time in the army.

Well, if you are disiplined enough to do them right away I quess you can manage without. But I would still argue that it is the greatest invention ever..

To be honest I'd be tempted to agree, if only because of the massive stacks of filthy plates and the like belonging to other housemates blocking half the kitchen...