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Ok to avoid packing this forums with countless questions. I made this and I will post all my questions and hope you answer them :beam:.
Ok my first question...
Will you be able to change the terrian so that it would be dark and gloomy in the undeads territory, and peacful and green in the wood-elfs territory?
Not sure what you mean, are you asking if the terrain change depending on which faction owns the region? if so the answers no thats not possible.
No what im asking is can you make certain areas appear different regardless of which factions owns it. So like the middle east in M2TW is desert, can you make say a certain area different terrain from the M2TW Default terrain?
A corrupted/wasteland terrain texture would have some good uses. The lands north of Praag and the Badlands south east of the Empire come to mind. Dry and lifeless for the badlands, and several notches higher in nastiness for the northerly areas (you could get very creative, with some interesting warped red and purple hues for the ground, it would set the atmosphere very nicely).
Quick question from me, which team member will be working on the high elves?
Massive high elf fan boy here, if the person making the high elf army needs any help at all regarding stats, history, charcters, models etc i would love to help, feel free to msn me anyone.
Nobodys working on them yet.
Elldog, change the map textures? yes we can, though its not a priority, the stock texture will do till more important things are out of the way.
I've not seen any basis or real decision on the topic, so I ask.
How will Magic, wizards, etc. be brought into the mod? Will it/they just be used as traits/anciliaries?
We're waiting for a stroke of genius. If you have an idea that's doable, it's very welcome. We don't know yet. There's a couple of ideas, like having them like artillery pieces but that has problems that need to be solved first. It needs more than just a new model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogman55
Here is the OFFICIAL line on magic.....
We will do what we can to implement magic..but it may very well end up as traits to support a general.
What I WILL NOT be doing, is fielding missile units where 100+mages launch barrages of fireballs across the battlefield like a glorified siege engine. It doesn't look right and can neer be made to look right. NO.
Magic can unbalance a gameso easily, and ruin the gameplay if it is not carefully anfd thoughtfully done. I would rather leave it out altogether than implement something that doesn't work well in a battle or would be badly misused by an AI army in a campaign.
The lack of responses on the topic is because we do not know yet to what extent it will be in the mod, nor how the thing would be implemented if we were to go beyond traits and ancillaries.
I understand that you're opposed to making units of mages shooting all over the place. I remember the generals bodyguard of eastern factions in RTW had spears, sort of like jinetes. It would still be very far from ideal with a unit with a low number of projectiles, and i guess it would only fit for a few factions like VC where the general would be able to cast some kind of gaze of nagash or similiar multi-missile LoS magic... oh well, I'm not going to argue for this, just thought I'd throw it out there, you've probably thought about it already.
Cheers!
I got a question. Will there be difference faction for each empire province and the Emperor to function as the Pope or no?
This has probably been answered more than any other question so far. Religion as in MTW2 will be taken out of the game. No pope and no religious conversions. It's not yet decided exactly how we'll solve it, but it'll most probably simply be through buildings traits and ancilaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in lust for blood
The Empire will be one faction. To represent the various provinces they'll have "colourful" shields, that represent their home cities.
Zoidberg is right for the most part about how we are going about representing the Empire, however it hasn't exactly been set in stone. The Empire WILL be one faction, and most likely what will happen is we will have 'special' units for the Empire which will be recruitable only in their home provinces, and will wear the uniform of that province. The rest of the Empire army will be represented by the uniform of Altdorf, Red primary with blue secondary.
I have a question of my own concerning the Empire, actually. The area known as Sylvania is technically considered Imperial territory, however the hold the Empire has over the province is negligable. Graf Alberich Haupt-Anderssen, the Elector-count of Stirland, oversees the cursed territory, but not many bother venturing into it. The major town in Sylvania is Waldenhof, which is ruled by the count of Sylvania, Rudgar von Walden. Getting to the point - Will the Vampire Counts start with this province, or will it be a very weak Imperial province bordered by Vampire Counts?
A very similar situation is in Bretonnia. The province of Moussilon is notorious for Blood Dragon vampires, and has for years been a cursed land within Bretonnia, even though the Bretonnians consider this area part of the Realm.
My personal opinion is that Sylvania and Moussilon should both be given to Vampire Counts, as without them their starting position would be pathetic. Fluff-wise, it also makes perfect sense. I'm almost certain there are more walking dead in Moussilon and Sylvania then there are living there... What's the official word on this?
I don't agree for having all the emoire the same colour,Bwian is iy possible for having its province her colour for the army that she make and for the colonies the colour of altdorf?I think it would be more intersted with having that.:egypt:
Well, since the VC counts faction represents the Von Carstein lineage (that's what I understood in the VC thread, at least), I don't see why they should get Moussillon, a province known mainly for its Blood Dragon Vampires. Furthermore, Moussillon is still part of Bretonnia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazysigmarite
It's cursed, yeah. Other bretonnians avoid this place, yeah. There are loads of undead, chaos cult and mutants, aswell as undead chaos mutants, but Louen LionHeart still see it as part of his kingdom.
What could be easily achieved is to make an event that spawn large undead armies in Moussillon from times to times, and to put a large rebel undead army here at the begining of the game (since rumors tells of a noble who is gathering a large army to reclaim the title of duke of Moussillon, we can safely bet he's a blood dragon vampire IMO).
As for Sylvania, it's now owned by the Empire. I'll have to have a look at Night's Dark Masters and Heirs of Sigmar, but I'm fairly sure the Empire is trying to maintain a strong garrison and administration there -despite its weakness after the SoC -, to prevent the return of Von Carstein vampires. On the other hand, it's hinted that most part of the newly established nobility is composed of VC vampires or humans loyal to Manfred, and that said Manfred will soon return in Sylvania to reclaim his throne.
I can see many solutions to this.
The first one would be to give the province to the VC faction, and have them allied with the Empire. It would basically means that the local nobility (either alive who undead) is acting as part of the Empire, until the return of Manfred, or until another Vampire gather enough power to reveal its true nature.
Another one is to give the province to the Empire, and have Manfred lurking around it with a large army. Once he invades Sylvania, a event would spawn some VC armies, simulating the betrayal of the local nobility.
Or, the game could start before SoC, and Sylvania would be owned by Manfred, at war with the empire (and well, everyone else).
I don't think Krazy meant that we give Mousilon to the Carsteins, but have them as rebels, but with vampire soldiers.
Hey guys, great job so far :yes:
This has probably been brought up many a time, so im sorry if its getting annoying now.
How long untill the first release, and if everything goes smoothly, done? Also will the full campaign map include all continents and the far east such as cathay? Where could i find a complete list of the factions you are aiming to have in the finished campaign
Well, I don't know as for a time table, Bwian may not even of set one yet. The Campaign map (as far as I know) is shown under a topic known as "A world to play in" or something to that liking. A list for the factions are color coded a few posts down under the same topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spankfurt
Cheers, :knight:
There is also a faction conversion thread, which lists which factions are being used for which Warhammer race.... which is a pretty clear guide also, as luck would have it, of which races are going to be in the initial release.
As we work up the units for each race, there is a stickied thread put up for discussion on the actual units to be made for each faction.
Now...you ask the million dollar question about release times.
For a mod, any attempt at giving a release time is....to be honest...pretty futile. I have a full time job, a wife and a family...and I fit modding in when I can. Some weeks I can do a lot...some virtually nothing...and the same is true for the rest of the team. We have other commitments to our time.
Professional software houses can rarely get a realistic release date right, and usually overrun...and they have the advantage of paid employees who have nothing else to do all day long... so there has been no discussion of release dates. When I feel we have something we can release...then we will let people know. That would imply we had a balanced set of races and were just doing the final bits to tidy it all up. Thats a while off yet.
We are making good progress, and have already got quite a bit done ... but there is a LOT more to go. It will be done when it's done, and we won't rush it. It must be quality, and it must be fun to play. Anything less than that would be failure.
And I have a feeling balancing will be a bitch, since most factions have a very assymetrical setup when it comes to strengths and weaknesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwian
Cost and upkeep are what balances unbalanced units in a campaign. If you have to spend 10 times the cost to maintain a unit of Bone Giants, but you could defeat the Giants with 10 units of spearmen, then there is the balance. That's a very simplified and unrealistic example, but it gives an idea of how this is achieved. You could expend a lot of gold in building and maintaining a super unit, but if you have to defend 5 cities, you need to spread your forces. If you reach the point where you could station a unit og super trosps in every territory you own, and still have enough money to keep the masses happy, then you are probably well on the way to winning anyway!
It's not necessary to balance every unit to every other ..you need to have a scale that makes the best units cost a lot. That way, the player has to decide to spend a load on one army, knowing that he has nothing left to defend with. If you plan a destructive pillaging raid through the enemy, then go for it. If you plan on taking and holding the ground, you need to have the troops to garrison your new territories until they can start contributing.
Will the vampires really stand out in the game in both looks and power?
ha ha, you make it sound so easy :) I have a sneaking suspicion it won't be. It's not only a question of making it balanced, but also gearing a build path. We want the chaos player to mostly use Marauders, and we want the Orc player to use mostly Orc Warriors. To keep the spirit of WH. But we can't allow them to be too powerful, so the player will only fill his army with it. Similarily, we want Skaven Clan rats to suck monkey balls, but we still have to make them worthwhile to buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwian
Anyhooo that's tomorrows headache, and it'll be a lot of fun tweaking to get right.
Ok ,two questions:
1). Will all the balancing/stats work out the same as for the tabletop game (i.e if unit has 1/3 chance of hitting/wounding/beating other unit etc will be the same in the mod?
2). Would it be more sensible to have a world map just focused on the old world, with chaos wastes to north, undead to south and choas dwarf bit to east?
Would perhaps enable the game to be more focused, and reduce the workload, plus it would be easier to keep everything relevant and in context that way
Answer 1.) - Most likely, no. Medieval's combat system is a lot different than the tabletop's, which is actually extremely simplified. I'll leave the balancing questions to the text-guys, but from what I can see so far, we will be basing the troops' abilities based on their actual rules as well as their fluff. For example. Orc choppas might hit a bit harder than Empire Free Company units because of the obvious size and muscle advantage orcs have, even though the tabletop has them listed with the same strength and attacks. The Free Companies might have better defensive skills to represent their martial prowess, as they are grizzled mercenaries and adventurers.Quote:
Originally Posted by dancingthemantaray
Answer 2.) If we focused the map on the Old World only, it would leave out the High Elves, Dark Elves, and Lizardmen, three very popular and interesting factions. It is better to have a larger scale map - the current early shot of it is in the "A world to play in!" thread, which displays Casuir's wonderfully detailed work.
To answer Blood's question - From what I've read in the Vampire Counts thread, Von Carstein vampires will be represented by the 'Family Member' Generals for the Vampire Counts. I'm sure the text guys can come up with some innovative ability that all Von Carstein generals have. Something like Vampirism, which gives them a bunch of hitpoints and dread. So, in short, yes, using a VC Family member will probably be a significant force on the battlefield - And we'll make sure the graphic for them is equally impressive. Bwain has the official say on all of this, of course.
The decision to include the areas on the map was made after discussion 0on what factions were definitly to be included. Believe me it would be a lot easier to leave every thing outside the old world out, theres not much detail on most of it. Chaos dwarfs were left out because extending the map eastwards would have included a lot of dead ground, as much again as the old world with nobody present.
could dark elves start offshore with a black ark or something?
Lizardmen are a rubbish race anyway :-p
Speak for yourself, Mr. Dance. I don't remember you Dark ones ever being a match for more Cold blooded Comrades.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogman55
DisagreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Born in lust for blood
Dark Elves pwn
:clown:
to be honest I never liked the lizardmen race, they just seemed a little too forced a conceptQuote:
Originally Posted by Dogman55
Sorry, I should state, not trying to create an arguement here, just genuinely thought that by concntrating on the old world the team would have a more focused area to work on, and less work getting everything in balance, it wold also be more in keeping with older warhammer games.
I think my opinions are obviously outvoted so I'll shut up!!
But it's not really our decision is it? We're making a Warhammer mod which means that we have to, (if we're sticking to Bwians original vision) include what ever factions Games Workshop has focused most on. Lizardmen are a major feature of Warhammer so therefor it goes in the mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by dancingthemantaray
And only Jack Daniels is allowed to blur my vision!
Besides ...some people like Lizards.
Lizardmen/Slaan have always been part of warhammer, and have consistantly made the cut when other races like chaos dwarfs, fimir, zoats and hobgoblins have fell along the wayside. GW obviously thinks they're important enough and popular enough to keep alive and up to date, so they're a must for inclusion. The newer editions of warhammer are actually far more concentrated on the old world than the older ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by dancingthemantaray
I was talking about shadow of the horned rat and dark omen....
Well if you want a game like them go buy mark of chaos, its pretty similar
They are not similar at all, despite everyone stating they wanted MOC to be a dark omen style type of game it ended up a big mess, unofficial magic items/characters unrealistic and massivly overpowered heroes, it felt more like an arcade action game, Dark Omen would make my top 5 games of all time, i wish someone could build a game from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Casuir
MTW2 is on the same wave lenght as Dark Omen and thats why im here personally, i love warhammer and this mod will be the closest i can get to playing a suped up Dark Omen.
Cant wait for them to start work on the high elves!
p.s sorry for the crappy spelling.
I agree dark omen was great, nice balancing and great multiplayer- really captured tabel top feel well. Only let down was the poor campaign structure where you had to win each battle perfectly to continue, TW mechanism would solve this nicely I reckon
The have far more in common with each other than either do with medieval. MoC might be badly balanced and the heros are way over the top but structurally its identical to dark omen and shadow of the horned rat. Limited troop and army choices with a linear campaign. Medieval as a much more capable engine and limiting ourselves to a remake of those would be as big of a let down as mark of chaos was when it was released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordy
MoC's campaign structure was the killer for me! First game I tried the Chaos side...and all seemed good enough to start with. Then, after a battle or two, I wanted to head back up to the rest camp to buy some more troops and heal some battered units... only to find the path was one way only ....
Crazy!
I didn't take the fork in the road to go get the items, but couldn't go back once I had fought the battle at the castle. Ultimately, these are just skirmish battles strung together...but oh so poorly.
We have a lot more control in MTW2 over where and when we fight, and what units we bring to the battle. OK...in the tabletop game, the armies are always carefully matched for equality .... but that is because it's a game, and you want to make sure it is a challenge and enjoyment to play. It's a one-hit deal. MTW2 allows us to play on a grander scale, and that is something that will ensure the die-hard fans get the right feel, and a bit more depth than previous attempts at digitising the 'hobby'.
We have a huge task ahead of us, and a big challenge that goes far beyond just making hte units... but if we succeed, we will have a mod to be proud of.
Just another question: Obviously there is a new high elf army book out on September. Will you base your models there or on the old one?
Also why aren't wood elves part of the first release? Should they be fairy easy to make?
This mod is based on the Warhammer universe, not specific units and unit stats, so it really doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in lust for blood
Eh? The primary focus as bwian stated elsewhere is to recreate the tabletop game, specific units and stats are very important and any changes gw makes in this respect will be taken on board.
Obviousely, we will need to see what changes GW do make to the High Elves. If it's major, then we will need to take some serious decisions as to whether we go with the current or future releases.
We do need to follow as closely as is physically possible, the actua l tabletop game. Deviations may be required where we cannot reproduce the game, or where the game simply does not go. This will be things like build-trees and general campaign stuff. The rest will be as close to GW as we possible can.
Wood Elves...no...no major issues building them, but we are limiting the initial races on release, and we can't make them all. Ultimately, it was a decision that had to be made...and we didn't pick the Wood Elves.
Doesn't mean we won't make them ... it just means they are not planned for the initial release.
You guys planning on making a website? It may be unnecesarry and slow down the work, but it would look alot better and you could have pages that show all the screen shots, and a better lay-out for the threads.
From a project management point of view this makes a lot of sense though. Ship a first simple version to work on the mechanic of the game and to allow the community to give some feeback. Then step by step add layers of factions/features/bugs fixes...Quote:
Originally Posted by dancingthemantaray
To include a lot of factions/features right from the start is quite a risky choice :juggle2:
At least the units we've seen so far look good :2thumbsup: I hope the rest (which is most of game) is done with the same level of excellency (the pressure is on) :2thumbsup:
Doubt it's the good thread, just wanted to bounce on dancing's note, congrat for the great job done so far and throw my two cents
Website would be a great idea, and could be done by someone not modding, so as not to take precious time..
A website is something I have decided not to do. Several reasons for this, and the effort is only one of them!
Lots of content is required to flesh out a website, and that's before you go through the issues of hosting, web design, updates etc. The community at the Org, plus occasional updates over at TWC keeps what we are making in the limelight. In the few weeks we have been active, this mod has already attracted enough interest and posts to be the second most 'posted about' mod in the Org's mod forums. People are finding us, and we are encouraged by what we are hearing.
Also encouraging is the number of posters with very low post counts. This means people are interested in us who are not long standing 'old guard' but people who have fresh opinions and interest. I don't know what extra benefits we would get form a website.
It would also need to be regularly updated with content as well as the screenshots I post here....which is more work and time I would ratherspend making more content!
Of course...if someone were to offer to build and maintain a site for us, I wouldn't turn them down....but it's not something I am going to start up!
how long till we get the mod:help:
cos it is looking great
Still lots to do! Keep checking in and we will keep letting you know how we are doing :beam:
When you say still lots to do, do you mean the actual release or a beta? Would be ok with a version with only custom battle and a few factions to play with. But thats up to you of course, keep up the good work.
We won't be releasing anything until it's ready. We wil lbe building a map, and putting together the campaign. The 'beta' release will be for bug testing, not to appease the impatient :whip:
We will release when we are ready, and that won't be yet.
NO serious work was done on this mod until the tools were ready, which was the release of GOM's mesh converter. Considering that, we have done a lot in a short space of time. We have a good start on the map. we have custom skeletons and we have a small ( but growing ) selection of custom models. We need to do unit balancing, unit cards, banners etc.
Im not impatient, I just couldnt find any information so I asked. Its finished when its finished.
And by the way Born in lust for blood, where did you hear about a new HE army book in september? Iv'e never heard about it.
I make a point of avoiding any discussion about deadlines or completion dates! There are far too many things that get in the way of progress on a mod! Everything from family, work, life, attack by hostile aliens ... you name it!
Im not saying it should be rushed, then it would be like MOC, no one wants that to happen.
Hello
I'm a french player of Bretonnia and I've a question
What will you do with witching and with hero (like the Green Knight)
I'm very interesting in this mod because I like warhammer and the play Mark of chaos isn't good.
Thanks
Both magic and heroes are problematic due to the general nature of hte game engine. The former will be largely handled through traits, giving certain generals benefits from recruiting mages etc.
Heroes, likewise, will not be possible through the game engine. We may adopt a similar approach, or else make the actual generals hte heroes. Depends on the race in question.
I'm thinking every factions starts with a well-known leader with uber stats, comand, hit points, etc. New uyoung generals should not be as common as in other games, and there stats should grow quickly as well.
Just suggestions :idea2:
Suggestion: One way you guys might be able to incorporate mages (to some degree) is to possibly make them assasins? This would be suitable for a number or races, I think, such as the Darkelves, Empire, High Elves, Bretonnia (not sure if they use magic in the winds of magic way or exclusively the lady of the lake). That could also provide basis for getting ancilliaries and traits of the magical variety.
Example:
Trait: Dealings with magic. This (Man?) has dealt with mages of all type before, and knowing even a basic understanding can possibly help him in the future +command or something?
that's what i was thinking, somewhere along those lines
There's a suggestion thread specifically for stuff like this. There's a risk they'll get lost in this thread
I got my sources!:2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by um...
Seriously though? I work at a games workshop store so I kinda get sneak pics etc.
High elf question for the mod, how will the phoenix guard be?
They are supposed to be completley silent due to a magical oath, will you remove all voices? And will there be Lothern seaguard? If its not possible to toogle weapons, maybe they could fire a wolley before they charge like some people in RTW. Maybe its early to ask if you havent started on the elves.
Quote from Born in lust for blood :
I got my sources!:2thumbsup:
Seriously though? I work at a games workshop store so I kinda get sneak pics etc.
Thats cool. Im collecting high elf so im looking forward to the new models and army book.
btw how do you quote the real way? Im a noob at forums.
theres a button that says quote. you click the post you want to quote and then you write what you want about it
hope it helps
Is there any indication of when a custom battle or similar release will be available? or are you guys waiting for a full campaign release?
I'm putting blasty magic in WHTW1, it's balanced because of the likelihood of hitting your own troops... I once had my general, two giant elephants, and foru flying carpets flattened with a single barrage from my Araby mages. :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwian
Swoosh So ... we do not plan to release a custom battle only version of the mod.
YEAH!! that means a full campaign version mod.:yes:
Full campaign mod for definite.
There is no reason NOT to do this. All you need is a map and some building trees etc. and you have a working campaign mod. For me, this is where the interest lies, and not in just setting up cutom battles. For those who just want that, the mod will provide that too ... but it's important to me that there will be a good single player game in the mod. That's what I play!
now that's the right attitude:yes:
Well of course id like the full campaign, im not talking either or, i was talking about a 2 faction custom battle preview to let fans of the mod try some of the new units before the campaign mod is completed. Much like CA may produce a demo featuring 1 or 2 battles before the games are released.
I see what you mean .... but there are 'issues' as far as this goes. The demo would be a pretty big download, even if we only included a couple of factions. People would, naturally, want the factions with the more 'radical' units, and that means a new animation pack in the download. Somewhere in the region of 70Mb just for the anims. It will also need to have a degree of balancing done.
I would need to finalise a couple of things, and add some more units to a couple of factions .... but this is something that could be done.
Ideally.... I would want something like ...say...Dwarves and Orcs, or Chaos and Empire ... some pairing that naturally went together. Any suggestions? Most of the factions that are well underway don't really go together that well.
Chaos/Empire would probably be quicker to do (since Empire has the least radical units), Dwarves/Orcs would be the most fun with new models/anims etc.
Another (probably kinda lame) option would be to make two pseudo-factions just for the demo, Law and Chaos. Then you could stick some units from all the factions in as a showcase for battles: Breton/Empire/Dwarf/Lizardmen/HE units for law, VC/TK/Chaos/Skaven/Orcs for chaos, or something. You could even make a third Neutral faction for Lizardmen, TK and Orcs so there's more variety.
Just throwing ideas out.:balloon2:
High Elves and Dwarves fighting together ..... tsk tsk ... I can sense the purists getting the lynch-mob together already!
*BURN HIM DOWN!*:laugh4:
Question:How will the lady's blessing be integrated in the game? More defense? and how will brettonians pray? It would be cool if you have them all kneeling during deployment.
Bah, I knew there'd be something.:wall:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwian