Buying a new rig

Last week my internet collapsed and my woman's computer died. She freaks because she can't work. So, in an unparalleled act of chivalry I immediately cleaned all my stuff out of my computer, loaded it all onto my external HD for safe keeping, then moved my rig five feet over and now it's on her side of the desk with her stuff in it.

BKS, in his eternal wisdom, smelled a rat. "Sounds a bit too convienent," he says.

:yes:

It gave me the excuse to replace the lousy DSL we had with high-speed cable, which I'm on now, and I get to buy a new rig, which I hope to have by next weekend. (Months sooner than I thought I'd be able/allowed to buy one)

So, the likely new specs:

AMD X2-6000
Asus A8N32-SLI MB
BFG 8800GTS 640MB
1x2048 Kinston RAM
X-Fi sound card (the cheapest version)
WD 250GB + 80GB HDs (The 80 is just for FS2004 and/or FSX)
550w power supply
and
"A sturdy plastic case to prevent fall apart." (The Simpsons)

Should be a great rig, but I know some of you who are smarter than me prefer the Intel CPUs. I am open to suggestions.

(JUst FYI, my old machine was an AMD64-3000/2GB RAM/7800GS AGP/75GB HD.)

Here is a very nice review of the 6000+ and it also shows that the Core 2 Duo E6700 will beat it. Now the question is, of course, how much both of them cost where you live...wow, here the 6000+ seems to be around 200EUR while the E6700 is around 300EUR. Didn't think that.

BUT, why did you select a Socket 939 board? I'd get an AM2+ board now because it's well, the future. Or at least a normal AM2, I wouldn't got for the older socket, *looks up CPUs*, and I guessed it, there is no 6000+ for the 939 socket anyway...
So you might want to choose another mainboard.
Iguess you chose 1x2048MB RAM for future upgrading to 2x2048? You might want to buy 4GB right away then since I read RAM prices are very, very low currently and expected to rise by about 100% in about a month. So now's the time to get cheap RAM.( :wall: now I could get 4GB for the same price I payed for my 2GB half a year ago, I have no money left :wall: )
But keep in mind that XP will not profit from 4GB, only Vista will, so I've read. But I guess those ressource hogging games will soon start to appreciate 4GB as the new maximum standard.

The rest sounds about right to me, get a good brand PSU though(the good ones are usually painted black in my experience, if they're painted golden and say 1200W, they're overpriced~;) ).:2thumbsup:

Hmmm, now I'm looking at that Intel CPU...

AMDs are underdogs lately, Beirut-sama. As Husar mentioned, I'd recommend a thorough comparison between AMD and Intel before doing anything else, rather than purchasing one right away like a fanboy.

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

AMDs are underdogs lately, Beirut-sama. As Husar mentioned, I'd recommend a thorough comparison between AMD and Intel before doing anything else, rather than purchasing one right away like a fanboy.

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Hey LEN,

Yeah, I'm taking a look at the Intel option. I like that the same MB will handle the E6700 CPU as well as the nutcase QX6700 (I think) if I ever get rich. I think the Intel will set me back an extra $100 over the AMD. I'm getting close to the over-budget zone. I'd also like to get 2x80GB HDs for my flight sims and those are about $60 each.

In any case, I want to order this thing today from my computer dude so I can fly next weekend.

Core 2 Duo or quad is the only way to go now days.

If your running on the edge of your budget you can do like I did and opt for the 8800GTS320. Its still a hell of a card and considerably cheaper. In fact mines factory overclocked as are many and actually runs faster than a 640. It can be had for well under $300.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Core 2 Duo or quad is the only way to go now days.

If your running on the edge of your budget you can do like I did and opt for the 8800GTS320. Its still a hell of a card and considerably cheaper. In fact mines factory overclocked as are many and actually runs faster than a 640. It can be had for well under $300.

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I remembered your post about that and I checked the prices. Not much of a difference here, maybe around $60, but I'm going to look into it some more. Thanks.

(Also, I'm definitely going to SLI the card.)

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(Also, I'm definitely going to SLI the card.)

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Dont do it. Mines sli ready but thats only for ATI and again its a waste of money. One good card is plenty good enough.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Dont do it. Mines sli ready but thats only for ATI and again its a waste of money. One good card is plenty good enough.

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Not sure what you mean by "only ATI". You can SLI Nvidia cards.

I wouldn't do it right now, maybe before winter. If my brain turns to goo and I go for a Vista DX10 scenario to fly FSX in all it's alleged glory, I might need the extra oompf.

Damn I keep getting confused, Im pretty sure mine is sli ready but another guy said my mobo is set up 4 ATI dual cards. Isnt there a difference? Anyway the point is you dont need 2

The combination of multi video cards for ATI brands are called "Crossfire" technology. "SLI" is Nvidia-ish.

Yeah I just checked my mobo specs. But I still use an 8800. Some say it will support two of them. I have crossfire however. So confusing.

Beirut, as the others have alluded to, AMD is (unfortunately) the underdog right now. If you are going to slap this together yourself, then I'd recommend getting a retail boxed cpu, dual core 6600 is only $230ish or so on n00begg. On stock/retail cooling, you can easily OC it up to 3.0ghz safely which puts it roughly on par with the $1000ish x6800 in terms of performance. Also depending on what mobo and RAM you buy, if they both support it and you enable it, your machine with 'automagically' overclock itself up to specific values that you can set. Looking to get a new PC myself within the next few months, but I still have a ton of reading to do, I'm a bit out of date with the current state of many things in general. :grin:

Best of luck

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Originally Posted by Whacker

If you are going to slap this together yourself...

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:inquisitive: Myself? Are you kidding? I'm still amazed I can put a DVD in the tray without bursting into tears.

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Originally Posted by Gawain

Anyway the point is you dont need 2.

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:inquisitive: Need? Need is not a word we toss about lightly here, sir. We live more for want.

Well how about that Nvidea thing I showed you then. Dont half step :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Yeah I just checked my mobo specs. But I still use an 8800. Some say it will support two of them. I have crossfire however. So confusing.

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Crossfire boards can support one NVIDIA card, but not two in SLI mode, SLI boards can support one ATI card, but not two in Crossfire mode. That's the official word.

Agreed :dizzy2:

Well, considering that crossfire has been pretty much abandoned by the 'professional' gaming crowd, things should simplify eventually :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Beirut

:inquisitive: Need? Need is not a word we toss about lightly here, sir. We live more for want.

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Just let me tell you that you don't want two cards then.:laugh4:

Once you will notice that they weren't worth the money and/or are soon outclassed by a single card of the next generation, you'll know why.
And I thought DX10 was meant to improve performance while maintaining the same visual quality or improving visual quality while maintaining performance, if that's true, you won't need any extra ooomph.:2thumbsup:
If you want to have SLI badly or if you are an NVidiot like me, take a board with an NVidia chipset, that should naturally work well with NVidia cards. But don't be fooled by the more expensive = faster or anything, lately I saw a test where the 650i chipset trumped the 680i in gaming performance, the 680i was better concerning peripherals, but nott everyone needs two Gigabit ethernets for an additional 100-200EUR/$ I guess.:sweatdrop:
(ok, it offers a bit more even, but if you just want a fast system with a decent chipset, the 650i will do)

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Originally Posted by sapi

Well, considering that crossfire has been pretty much abandoned by the 'professional' gaming crowd, things should simplify eventually :laugh4:

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I believe the ":laugh4:" smilie is the official Crossfire symbol now.

I heartily agree.

I also agree with Husar's comments about SLI - it may look good now but it's really not, imo, the best long-term alternative.

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Originally Posted by sapi

I heartily agree.

I also agree with Husar's comments about SLI - it may look good now but it's really not, imo, the best long-term alternative.

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The good thing, then, is that I can't afford a second card. At least not now.

Poverty is the mother of prevention. ~:yin-yang:

:laugh4:

So true :yes:

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Originally Posted by Beirut

:inquisitive: Myself? Are you kidding? I'm still amazed I can put a DVD in the tray without bursting into tears.

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Oh come on, stop being such a weenie. I mean hell, if Gawain, who PERSONALLY witnessed the integration of water and dirt to make mud, can figure this stuff out, so can you!

Seriously though, if you can put together a lego set with a lot of small parts, you can do this. The fact that I'm looking to build out a machine that'd cost me roughly $3500-4000 for a bit over $2000 myself down the road should be enough incentive. You can save a LOT of money putting something together yourself. Plus you have a huge support crew here in the forums who can and will happilly help out by posting useful comments like "u just broke it lol". ~:thumb:

Never know until you try it!

And I'm just kidding Gawain. Except for the age bit. :hide:

:balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Whacker

Plus you have a huge support crew here in the forums who can and will happilly help out by posting useful comments like "u just broke it lol". ~:thumb:

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

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And I'm just kidding Gawain. Except for the age bit.

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Well it is my birthday :balloon2:

And it doesnt cost that much to have one built locally. Just make sure you know your prices. Print some of the ones quoted here and take them with you and ask if they can match or beat that. Thats what I did. made up a list of what I wanted after researching here and on the net. Checked the prices on the net and then went to a few stores. I wound up paying maybe $50 more all together than if i had built it myself as I didnt have to pay any S&H on it. Nor tax as I paid cash . Shhhhh.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Well it is my birthday :balloon2:

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Well then happy birthday you old fart! Have one on me! ~:cheers: :cake: :birthday2:

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And it doesnt cost that much to have one built locally. Just make sure you know your prices. Print some of the ones quoted here and take them with you and ask if they can match or beat that. Thats what I did. made up a list of what I wanted after researching here and on the net. Checked the prices on the net and then went to a few stores. I wound up paying maybe $50 more all together than if i had built it myself as I didnt have to pay any S&H on it. Nor tax as I paid cash . Shhhhh.

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Be forewarned. My experience has usually been that unless you KNOW someone specifically and they offer a really nice price, then it's safe. If you don't know and they aren't charging you much, buy heavily beware. Likewise the more 'trustworthy' shops will charge good money thus somewhat negating the cost savings. Just beware and research heavily before you do, if you do.











Mmmmm... cake and beer.....

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Well it is my birthday :balloon2:

And it doesnt cost that much to have one built locally. Just make sure you know your prices. Print some of the ones quoted here and take them with you and ask if they can match or beat that. Thats what I did. made up a list of what I wanted after researching here and on the net. Checked the prices on the net and then went to a few stores. I wound up paying maybe $50 more all together than if i had built it myself as I didnt have to pay any S&H on it. Nor tax as I paid cash . Shhhhh.

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Happy Birthday there fella! :balloon2:

I know my local computer dude very well, he's been building my rigs since 1998. The only problem now is he won't answer his phone. Gah! I wanted my new rig for the weekend but that (deleted) bonehead isn't getting back to me and hasn't even sent me an email with a price quote so I can give him the go ahead. What a shmuck.

On the plus side, every day he doesn't get back to me my rig account grows. If he waits another week to call me I'll end up with a QX6800 CPU.

Mmmmm... QX6800.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

Mmmmm... QX6800.

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Blatant rumor mongering: QX6700 is supposed to be sub-$500 USD by late July. :smitten:

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Originally Posted by Beirut

Happy Birthday there fella! :balloon2:

I know my local computer dude very well, he's been building my rigs since 1998. The only problem now is he won't answer his phone. Gah! I wanted my new rig for the weekend but that (deleted) bonehead isn't getting back to me and hasn't even sent me an email with a price quote so I can give him the go ahead. What a shmuck.

On the plus side, every day he doesn't get back to me my rig account grows. If he waits another week to call me I'll end up with a QX6800 CPU.

Mmmmm... QX6800.

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Do not buy a new system now, especially a quad cpu based one. Save your money and mooch off your wife's PC until Fall. Go and enjoy the great outdoors while the weather allows it.

Why Fall?

1) AMD is launching its brand spanking new dual and quad core processors this Fall. These chips are purported to be the bee's knees in terms of performance. Whether this performance is realized or not Intel will have no answer to AMD's thunder other than to release more powerful quad chips based on their existing line accompanied by price cuts to their high end chips. FYI, the Q6600 quad chip will drop over $250 in price to ~$266!

2) AMD will also be launching it's upgraded 29xx (2950?) cards this Fall. These cards will be based on a .65nm process and are supposed to address the shortcomings of the 2900XT while consuming far less power to boot. Since the 2900XT has only proved itself to be faster than the 8800 GTS Nvidia hasn't bothered to adjust prices on any of its existing 8800 cards.

3) In reaction to AMD's upgraded 2xxx line Nvidia will probably answer with price cuts or its own upgraded 8xxx cards. Competition = Price war goodness. :thumbsup:

4) Black Friday deals. If you can really bite the bullet and wait until the Friday after Thanksgiving you'll be greeted with some serious PC oriented deals. It should be a buyer's paradise this Fall/Winter.

There is only one reason to buy a new system now. Memory prices. Memory prices recently hit rock bottom and are starting to creep their way back up. Rumor has it low demand has actually forced some manufacturers to cease production in order to drive demand up for existing inventories. You can get two 1gig sticks of quality, DD2-800 PC6400 RAM for around $90 now! I just picked up two 1gig sticks of Corsair XMS DD2-800 (Cas 4) from Newegg for $92 after rebate!

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Originally Posted by Spino

There is only one reason to buy a new system now.

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You're right, there is - Flightsims!

I can't go until Fall without my airplanes. I'll go bonkers. I need my own rig. Soon.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

You're right, there is - Flightsims!

I can't go until Fall without my airplanes. I'll go bonkers. I need my own rig. Soon.

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Sounds like you're addicted. Maybe an intervention is in order...

Well if that's the case then spend away. I do recommend that you refrain from purchasing a quad processor as they're simply too damn expensive right now to justify the cost. Intel's E6600 cost about the same as the Athlon 64 6000 and is only a wee bit slower than the E6700 or E6800 chips.

Stay AWAY from the cheapest X-Fi card, the X-Fi Audio. The X-Fi Audio card does not come equipped with the lauded X-Fi 20KX DSP chip but sports either a lesser version or a completely different DSP chip altogether. The difference will not be big if you're just doing 2D sound but the lack of a decent DSP chip will have an effect if your in-game sound options are cranked all the way up and you have 3D sound or EAX enabled. Consider nothing less than the X-Fi Gamer or if you can find it, the older X-Fi Music card. Since you're a sim junkie then you know that you need all the free CPU horsepower your system can spare so don't cheap out on the sound card.

Also be sure to get two sticks of RAM instead of one, this way you'll be able to take advantage of the speed benefits of a dual channel memory configuration.

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Originally Posted by Spino

Stay AWAY from the cheapest X-Fi card, the X-Fi Audio. The X-Fi Audio card does not come equipped with the lauded X-Fi 20KX DSP chip but sports either a lesser version or a completely different DSP chip altogether. The difference will not be big if you're just doing 2D sound but the lack of a decent DSP chip will have an effect if your in-game sound options are cranked all the way up and you have 3D sound or EAX enabled. Consider nothing less than the X-Fi Gamer or if you can find it, the older X-Fi Music card. Since you're a sim junkie then you know that you need all the free CPU horsepower your system can spare so don't cheap out on the sound card.

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I'll check that out. I read the PC Gamer review that said all the cards have the exact same base technology.

If you 'play' a lot of flight sims at reall high Resolutions (1600x1200 or >) then I'd recommend as much video memory as possible, as bigger resolution resolution means more textures in memory. I'd say go for the 640mb 8800gts at least, and consider the 768MB GTX if you want to .

As other's have said Intel is cutting prices by as much as 50% on July 22nd, I just picked up a Gigabyte mobo and E4300 to hold me over till the quad cores are cheap.

and REMEMBER!!! a cheap power supply can kill a whole rig, and you want lotas amps on the 12v line, the Enermax Liberty series are some of the best.

@Spino - no black friday in Canada :(

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Originally Posted by Stuperman

As other's have said Intel is cutting prices by as much as 50% on July 22nd, I just picked up a Gigabyte mobo and E4300 to hold me over till the quad cores are cheap.

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I will Googlefy that rumeresque storification.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

I will Googlefy that rumeresque storification.

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No need...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7293

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Intel set to cut prices ahead of AMD's "Barcelona" launch
Last week, AMD talked about its desktop plans for the upcoming year in Sunnyvale, California. Although AMD showed its upcoming desktop processor running in single and dual-socket configurations, the company chose not to announce an official launch date for its next-generation desktop processors. According to Robert Rivet, AMD executive vice president and CFO, however, AMD's next-generation processors will be ready by Christmas.

Despite how distant the possible December launch date of AMD's native quad-core desktop processors may seem, Intel is already stepping up the competition and will be instituting a series of aggressive price cuts in July. We originally reported these major price cuts, which will be targeting Intel's quad-core desktop and server processors, in March. At the time, we didn't know the official date of when the price cuts would take place. We can confirm today that the price cuts will take place on July 22.

Intel Core 2 Quad
Model Core Frequency L2 Cache FSB July 22 Pricing
QX6800 2.93 GHz 8MB 1066 MHz $999
Q6700 2.66 GHz 8MB 1066 MHz $530
Q6600 2.40 GHz 8MB 1066 MHz $266

The first part of the price cuts will center on Intel's quad-core desktop processors. The Q6600, which Intel launched in February, currently sells for $530 in quantities of 1000. When the product was originally launched, it was priced at $851 in quantities of 1000. The next round of price cuts will effectively lower the price to $266. The selling price of the Intel QX6700 will also be lowered, coming in at $530 by the end of July.

Intel Quad Core Xeon DP
Model Core Frequency L2 Cache FSB July 22 Pricing
X5365 3.00 GHz 8MB 1333 MHz $1172
X5355 2.66 GHz 8MB 1333 MHz $744
E5345 2.33 GHz 8MB 1333 MHz $455
E5335 2.00 GHz 8MB 1333 MHz $316
E5320 1.86 GHz 8MB 1066 MHz $256
E5310 1.60 GHz 8MB 1066 MHz $209
L5320 1.86 GHz 8MB 1066 MHz $320
L5310 1.60 GHz 8MB 1066 MHz $273

Intel is also slashing the prices of its quad core Xeon DP processors. The flagship Xeon DP X5355 will see its introductory $1172 price drop to a more manageable $744. Likewise, Intel's slowest 1333MHz FSB Xeon DP processor will drop to $316 while the Intel's two low-voltage Xeon DP L5320 and L5310 processors will fall to $320 and $273 respectively.

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Or just check this chart out...


https://img479.imageshack.us/img479/...2pricesoy1.jpg

Which I got here...

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthr...13348&t=515717

Wheres my E6400 and 6600 or are these the replacements?

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Originally Posted by Spino

No need...

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Thanks! :sunny:

There is one thing however, that makes me wonder whether getting such a thing would always make sense. The thing is Win XP and it's because I read that Vista is only really optimized for Quad Cores, once you get to more Cores, it won't get you optimal performance or whatever. Since XP is even older than Vista and had to get some patches to get Dual Cores working correctly, I wonder how it will handle Quad Cores?
Also keep in mind that Intel Quad Cores currently use twice the energy of their Dual Core counterparts and most games don't really use the cores anyway so far. Of course you can then run two games simultaneously if your graphicscard allows it(how about two cards without SLI, one for each game?):clown:

I'm strongly against quad cores, even if you can call the current intel chips quad; they're not actually quad cores but two dual core dies on the same chip.

That causes heat and memory optimisation problems, as early dual cores experienced; and not only will you get next to no performance increase (over a dual core), you'll be paying a lot more for a hotter chip.

:thumbsdown:

Just got it! :birthday2:

It took a lot of hard work to cover this baby but it's on the desk beside me.

The end result:

E6700 CPU (Thanks Sapi for kicking me in the Intel direction.)
ASUS P5N-E-SLI MB
BFG 8800GTS OC 640MB
2GB Corsair 800Mhz RAM
X-Fi Xtreme Gamer sound card
Western Digital 250GB + 80GB HD
OCZ Gamer Stealth Xtream 600w PSU
Antec 900 case (Very cool, full of blue lights.)

And, for some unknown reason (thank you Lord), the guy I work with has decided to take the day off tomorrow. Whatever will I do with myself all day...

FLY!

Enjoy Beirut.

Thanks Boss. :sunny:

Good for you, Beirut :yes:

Enjoy :thumbsup:

Gratz Beirut! Happy hunting!

All good stuff. I think you could have gone with a little better Mobo with what you have there but that one is fine. You sure wont have any trouble playing MTW2. Thats pretty much a mid range Mobo. A very good midrange one :laugh4: Probably the best there is for the price.

I've written it somewhere before, but the NForce 650i has a better gaming performance than the 680i, the latter just has a lot of additional connections for peripherals, SLI etc. and better performance for them IIRC.

So I'd say that's a very good gaming mainboard.

So far the performance is pretty good. IL2-1946 just rockets. Everything maxed with good action and it's 30+FPS. Very nice. FSX runs as well as can be expected and FS9, which I locked at a 40FPS max, flows like melted butter (though it took two hours to install and I still have more add ons to add on). Going to install M:TW2 tomorrow. Should be interesting.

Having a few problems geting my Saitek Evo flightstick to work properly, but I'm sure I'll work it out. Love the case. The front access USB plugs and headphone jack are great. The only problem is my woman wants it off the desk and put under the desk. She thinks the case is very tacky and too big. Sure has a lot of fans, though. I can't see this thing ever overheating.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...omputer001.jpg

You drink and fly? :furious3:

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

You drink and fly? :furious3:

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Yes, often. :yes:

WoooOOoooOoo

Achtung! Spitfire!

...rrrRRRRrrRRRRROOOOOOORRRRrrRRrrrrRrrrr...

I just noticed you seem to have the same cheap external HDD case from EverTech that I have. Unbelievable.:laugh4:
Oh, and the same joystick(we established that before), oh and the mainboard I want to get...
Why are you copying me? ~;)

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Originally Posted by Husar

I just noticed you seem to have the same cheap external HDD case from EverTech that I have. Unbelievable.:laugh4:
Oh, and the same joystick(we established that before), oh and the mainboard I want to get...
Why are you copying me? ~;)

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My cheap external HD is a Comstar, and that flightstick is actually my left hand throttle, my main flightstick is a MS FFB2 and it's not in the pic.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

My cheap external HD is a Comstar

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On the pic it does look exactly like my case, and that's an EverTech. Well, whatever...:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Beirut

and that flightstick is actually my left hand throttle, my main flightstick is a MS FFB2 and it's not in the pic.

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I remember now, you also mentioned that before.
I shall not burn you for the heresy of copying me then.:clown:

You guys are like, supplying me with gamer pr0n.

Beirut, you forgot to ship it to me first so I can "test it out" for you first... For a year or so...