Indo Sakas

Hi, EB team first post here but I check the forum often

First thanks for this splendid mod who is very interesting :2thumbsup:

I love particularly the Bactrian, Saka with their cultural mix :2thumbsup:


Now the question, is there going to be more indo-greek-saka units in next version ?

I think it would be very cool to have a guy like this one

https://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4103/610984sk6.jpg

A bactrian camel archer with a tabar axe, it would look awesome on the battlefield, will we see this unit maybe ?

Thanks again for you job :yes:

AFAIK there will be no camel units in EB, as they were not used widely in battle. Our historians will be able to elaborate, I'm sure.

Now that is sweet, Bactrian camel archers!
Please, please, please put this in. I don't care if its a historical, I mean what is there to not like about them?

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Originally Posted by Pharnakes

Now that is sweet, Bactrian camel archers!
Please, please, please put this in. I don't care if its a historical, I mean what is there to not like about them?

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Reason for why you would never ever be allowed into EB.

Bactrian camels have never been used and as I recall do not have the speed needed to be good mounted archers. Heck, they are slow that most infantry could catch up to them.

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As for more Indo-Saka & Indo-Greek units, we have a few more but that's it. We only have so and so many unit slots so we got to spread the love.
There will probably not be any camel units as most evidence points to that camels were used for transport to and from battles, not during.

Calm down, it was a joke. :sorry2:


On the speed of bactrian camels are you sure about that? I seem to rememeber reading something about a group of biologists attempting to study some and, finding they could outrun horses after about half an hour, so I think the camels would be able to run, especialy if there was a great horde of yelling men chasing after them waving pointy things...

Although in fairness I have never heard of the bactrian camel being used for anything, but that may just be because they are so rare now.

Saka will receive some units, most of those have either fought in India, or are depicted in coins minted in India, or are Indian themselves. :yes:

NO BAKTRIAN CAMELS, though. They were used in trade, but NOT in warfare.

Don't worry, you are not the only one who enjoys the Saka, and them IndoSakae either the Northern Ksatrapas, or the Western Ksatrapas (the ones who survived after the Northern ones were integrated into the Kushana realm).

I've gotten the impression from somewhere the Bactrian two-humps are actually slower overall than dromedaries (which for that matter [I]were[I] put to use as archery platforms), but dunno if that has any real factual basis.

...I've gotta agree there's something rasther awe-inspiring about the image of a guy in those nomad tunics, toting bow and axe (and prominent moustache too most likely), atop the already quite visually jarring camel though.
Metal, dude. :rockstar:

Considerable amusement value aside, I can also see why they might not exactly turn up in EB too. :sweatdrop:

The problem with camels is similar to the problems with some other rarer units--they require (in the case of camels especially) multiple models and a new unit slot, things which we don't exactly have in abundance. Now, if they'll raise the unit/model limits in M2:Kingdoms...

Personally, I figure you could make a pretty decent camel-archer out of the Saba archer-spearmen just by giving the model the appropriate "mounted" skeleton definitions (ie. like generals have). Pretty much the exact same guys, just atop a smelly, ornery herbivore after all. You'd still need to spend a slot on the camel of course - I figure the rather redunant one for the Yubtseb oliphants would do fine... or is that needed for something ?

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Originally Posted by Watchman

- I figure the rather redunant one for the Yubtseb oliphants would do fine... or is that needed for something ?

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Yubsteb elephants were used historically so they will stay in game. They were massively used by Uranos people during their Bartixian conquest.

:shame: How could I forget.
:no:
Suicide by kryptonite exposure is the only way I can regain my honour.

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Originally Posted by Spendios

Yubsteb elephants were used historically so they will stay in game. They were massively used by Uranos people during their Bartixian conquest.

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Exactly! How else would the Uranians be able to reach those flying Cocken Gall-Bladders?:book:

OT:To be honest I'm not that fond of Camels in RTW since they were always so ugly looking and had this bizarre animation when they moved.(Looked more like Dogs that got sticks stuck somewhere than Camels.) :whip: So I'm fine with EB not including them as they've got so many awesome units to play around with already especially in that region!

:laugh4: Camels are infamous for looking pretty darn strange in general (plus they look like they're sneering all the time - somehow fitting given their ill temper). And their running gait isn't the most aesthetically pleasing, granted - but it does the job.

Yes, camels do run in a very strange, horizontal sort of way, and as watchman says thier pretty bad tempered. I don't know if any of you have read Terry Pratchett, but he attributes the superioir look to the fact that their are the most intelegent animals on the planet (to intelignet to let humans know, of course) And he also gives his camel's names like: evil minded son of bitch and dirty union of diseaesd jackals behind, which I suspect, if I had a camel would probably be the sort of name I would give it.


And they stink.

"The Finns have no imagination when it comes to naming horses; they're all called Perkele."
- unknown 19th-century traveler

("Perkele" refers to the Devil and is used as a general-purpose expletive, much like the famous Spanish Caramba!)

Does anybody outside of a cartoon actualy say caramba?

Damned if I know, but it has just the right combination of explosive consonants to make a brilliant expletive.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Damned if I know, but it has just the right combination of explosive consonants to make a brilliant expletive.

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You mean like "Scorchio!!!"

One guy who was in military service with me said caramba occasionally. I thought it was funny, so I've adopted it along with the more traditional Norwegian expletives.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Personally, I figure you could make a pretty decent camel-archer out of the Saba archer-spearmen just by giving the model the appropriate "mounted" skeleton definitions (ie. like generals have). Pretty much the exact same guys, just atop a smelly, ornery herbivore after all. You'd still need to spend a slot on the camel of course - I figure the rather redunant one for the Yubtseb oliphants would do fine... or is that needed for something ?

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I'm pretty sure if you want to give a model a new skeleton for animation you have to give it a new model entry, whether its the same model or not.

Will maybe this considered for EB2 ? Maybe a parthian or saka drummer on camel it would be cool :balloon2:

Two-humped camels too slow? I rode some and they are quite energetic. They stink, are bad tempered and run a smooth pace (lifting both legs on the same side at once) making them a stable mount ideal for firing arrows, really scare horses, don't know fatigue and by spring, when the winter wool goes down, have an incredible rasta-punk look.

I fell in love with a camel on spring 2002 in Mongolia. I felt we could have traveled to the end of the world together.

They were not used at war. I can't figure out why.

...tried racing a horse with them or something, too ?

Anyway, given that one of the important things which actually makes hores good war-mounts is that they're specifically hierarchical herd beast...

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Originally Posted by Gertrude

Will maybe this considered for EB2 ? Maybe a parthian or saka drummer on camel it would be cool :balloon2:

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You're treading dangerously close to Warcraft 3's orcs here, methinks... o.O

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Originally Posted by Watchman

which actually makes hores good war-mounts

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I sure hope you forgot a 's' here...

:shifty: Mesa no speak the English so well.

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Originally Posted by Conradus

I sure hope you forgot a 's' here...

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I reckon what he missed was another letter. :kiss2:
.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

... which actually makes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

hores

good war-mounts is that they're specifically hierarchical herd beast...

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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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I reckon what he missed was another letter. :kiss2:
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Lol. Though, that would be adult content. And a clash with Gaesatae...nvm

Although it is a safe bet that quite a few soldiers through history have enjoyed "mounting" some "hores" during times of war...

Does anybody know when camels or dromedars were first used in war? I find it astonishing that they shall not have been used - normally humans use every possible device to arm themselves if it helps beating the crap out of your nefarious neighbour...

They're good for getting around the desert, anyway. And bow-toting Bedouin raiders on camelback apparently pestered both the Assyrians and ancient Judeans.

But (mostly strategic) mobility, and being odious to horses unused to them (using pack camels as a cavalry-distruption screen seems to have been a fairly popular underhanded trick), is pretty much what the animals' military contribution seems to have been.

But sometimes this must have changed. At least the arabs at the time of mohammed used them in battle AFAIK. Were they the first to do so systematically / in cohesive units?

They used them for transportation, not as battle mounts you know.

Given that round four millenia or so of people who, generally speaking, knew cavalry warfare like the back of their hand, only ever used camels as archery platforms at most, I think we can safely conclude the beasts just plain aren't too well suited for being war mounts.

My guesses for the reasons would include a rather inconvenient body geometry, the fact they're not actually all that fast, and above all the peculiarities of camelid psychology - namely, the whole sneering lot of them have a noted penchance for stubbornness, orneriness and regularly treating orders as suggestions, none of which are particularly desirable qualities in a war mount.

I for one would vote yes to camel archers, but no to warcamels. It seems they do fit historically as archer mounts if nothing else.

Yes, well seeing as we have limited model and unit space, including such an animal as a mount would be considered an unreasonable use of resources.

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Thank you for the answers