The Hyborian Age: Total War

What is The Hyborian Age: Total War?

In 1930, Weird Tales published a story that would introduce the world to a character who would grow into an icon of the 20th Century. The writer was Robert E. Howard, the story “The Scarlet Citadel”, and the character Conan the Cimmerian. The black-haired, sullen-eyed barbarian from the dark lands of the North lived in a forgotten age, known to the Nemedian Chroniclers as the Hyborian Age. It was an age of great kingdoms, mighty warriors and terrible sorcery. Most of all, it was an age of war.

What factions will be present in The Hyborian Age: Total War?

Because Robert E. Howard pictured the Hyborian Age as being a distilled, fantastic enrichment of more recognizable cultures and eras of earth’s history, a number of the factions are already present in a way. It is a veritable melting pot of history, one where cavemen can fight longbowmen and vikings, where New Kingdom Egyptians can battle steel-clad knights, and Mongol horsemen can clash with Native Americans.
There will be at least 20 factions in the game, with a further 10 unique factions in later releases. The factions were decided after reading through every Conan story written by Howard, and judging which nations and cultures were both most important in the Hyborian Age and the most interesting to play. Apart from some references from other areas of Howard’s literature like the Kane and Kull stories, most gaps will be created using my own extrapolations that I believe will be true to Howard’s vision. Sometimes there are great gaps in Howard’s writing (he never mentions the Kings of Argos or Zingara, and doesn’t even give some nations a capital city) so there is a large amount of extrapolation for some factions. Everything that appears in Howard’s work, and everything that is either from a pastiche or my own imagination will be made as distinct as possible, so everyone is clear as to what is Howard’s work and what is extrapolation. I decided not to include other authors’ characters, events or similar, because I’d rather make a truly Howard mod with my own particular slant on it, and there are many things in the pastiches that I disagree with. There are also copyright matters to consider: it’s easier to just include stuff from Howard, and not bring in too much from DeCamp, Hoffman, Roberts, or the comics. I may use some city or character names from the pastiches if they are appropriate to the faction and work well in context to Howard. If my mod proves popular, then other modders are perfectly free to add factions, characters and events from the pastiches if they like. If they like my skins or any element of the mod, they are also perfectly free to use them in their own work as long as due credit is given.

The factions, assuming choosing cultures is possible:
Hyborian – Aquilonia, Nemedia, Koth, Argos, Zingara, Corinthia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea
Barbarian – Cimmeria, Asgard, Vanaheim
Savage – The Pictish Confederacy, Kush, Tombalku, Keshan, Zembabwei
Eastern – Turan, Hyrkania, Vendhya, Ghulistan, Kosala, Khitai, Iranistan
Shemite – Shem, the Zuagir
Ancient – Zamora, Stygia, Black Colossus

I may switch Argos and Zingara into the Shemite culture group, seeing as they are not true Hyborian nations. I may also put Kosala and Khitai into the Ancient culture group on account of their sorcerous reputation. I have not yet decided on the final faction, though I have an idea of what it could be. The candidates for the final faction are:
Acheron – Ancient faction, cause chaos in Hyboria / Not very Howardian
Border Kingdom – Tough start, cool units / Hyboria too crowded
Khauran & Khoraja – Tough start, tiny faction / weak, Hyboria too crowded
Darfar – Liven up Black Kingdoms, unique unit / weak, little known
Punt – Liven up Black Kingdoms, good economy / weak, little known
Atlaia – liven up Black Kingdoms / little known
Amazonia – liven up Black Kingdoms / little known
Kozaks – liven up Eastern Desert / too transient

How big is the conversion going to be?

Apart from a new map, the game will mostly consist of reskins and graphical changes. Aquilonia, Nemedia, Koth, Argos, Zingara, Corinthia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Cimmeria, Asgard, Vanaheim, the Pictish Confederacy, Turan, Hyrkania, Pelishtia and the Zuagir are pretty much already in the game (as France, Germany, Sicily, Portugal, Spain, Venice, Milan, Hungary, Poland, Scotland, Russia, Denmark, the Aztecs, the Timurids, the Mongols, Egypt and the Moors respectively) and will be pretty much the same as in vanilla but with tweaked stats and with new skins, either as simple as a recolour or altogether original design. Some factions like Vendhya, Hyperborea, Asgard, and Vanaheim will have a few new models. The new factions – Kosala, Khitai, Iranistan, Kush, Tombalku, Keshan, Zembabwei, Stygia, Zamora and the Black Colossus will be completely new, though based on the other factions. Even the faces of the units will be changed, with more battle-ravaged and scarred faces. Most of the buildings will remain the same, except Stygia, which will have entirely new buildings (though they will probably just consist of Aztec buildings painted black).

What makes this mod different?

The real-time element of the gameplay will likely be very similar to Vanilla, although with a number of new unit types that will provide some variety. Officers and Generals also have a much more important role: they are all much stronger warriors, and could take on dozens or even hundreds of men in a battle, but the loss of such a unit will have a massive impact on the army’s moral. Priests have a more vital role, as religion in the Hyborian Age is a powerful and dangerous element that has a very influential effect on the very survival of a nation. Sorcery also plays a major part, with some nations having access to terrible magicks that could not only shift the power balance, but the very stability of the earth. As well as that, the barbarian and savage races are perhaps a greater threat to the civilized lands than their own rivals, for if they were united under a single banner they could rampage across the map with nothing to stop them.
Another feature is fact that many of the factions are landlocked, and frequently surrounded by powerful enemies. This minimizes the gambling of automatic naval battles, and although this restricts the options available to landlocked factions, it also means that there’s a greater likelihood to see struggles between factions. I am unsure exactly how many provinces will be used, but it will likely be about 200, to reflect the massive world of Howard’s writing and the many cultures in it. Only the most powerful and important settlements will have walls, to make things more “Total War” than “Total Siege”.
Also, the vast number of different cultures means there is a bit of something for everyone: if you want to stick with the medieval period, then Turan or any of the major Hyborian factions will play like a nation from the middle ages. Asgard and Vanaheim would be an ideal choice for the Viking nut. If you enjoy ancient warfare then Stygia, Kush and the Shemites resemble the ancient Egyptians, Nubians and Semitic cultures respectively. Players wanting to rampage across vast swathes of the map like Arabs, Huns or Mongols might enjoy the Horde, Ghulistan and the Hyrkanians. Corinthia, Brythunia and Ophir have access to phalanxes, chariots, elephants and other staples of classical-age warfare. If you’re tired of European-style factions then Vendhya, Kosala and Khitai are facsimiles of ancient India, Thailand and China. And if you want something a bit different, then the Cimmerians, Picts, Hyperboreans and Zamorians will offer their own unique styles of play unlike any of the other factions.
Some of the factions start out very strong: Aquilonia is far more powerful than the other Hyborian factions, Turan is stronger than the other eastern factions, and the barbarian factions are just about indestructible. To make things more interesting for these players, Aquilonia and Turan will be highly susceptible to rebellion problems (as seems to be quite common in Howard’s writings), to the point where a particularly severe rebellion could cripple the faction. Players who choose Cimmeria, Asgard or Vanaheim will begin with a single province or horde and only a few units, meaning that expansion into the equally dangerous independent territories will be very risky, even with the most powerful units in the game. Once a sizeable army has been achieved, however, the game will become much easier, at least until the Pictish reforms.
Visually, the game will be evocative of such illustrators as Frank Frazetta, Gary Gianni, Doug Beekman and artists like Caravaggio. Although the faction units will mostly be composed of realistic units, there will be the occasional unrealistic weapons (unfeasibly large swords, massive warhammers and double-bitted battle axes abound) and some units are practically superhuman, particularly the barbarian ones. There will also be a few extremely powerful sorcerous units, but these will be exceedingly rare in the campaign.

Will there be different versions of the Mod?

To begin with, I will do a series of smaller region packs as seen in The Fourth Age, in the following released:
Part One: Gods of the North
Cimmeria, Asgard, Vanaheim, The Pictish Confederacy, Hyperborea, Aquilonia, Nemedia, Brythunia, Ophir
Part Two: The Dreaming West
Koth, Argos, Zingara, Corinthia, Pelishtia, The Zuagir Horde, Zamora, Turan, Stygia, The Black Colossus
Part Three: Jewelled Thrones of the Earth
Vendhya, Hyrkania, Ghulistan, Khitai, Kosala, Iranistan, Kush, Tombalku, Keshan, Zembabwei

Depending on the feasibility, I plan on eventually having at least three different full maps: the Age of Darkness, the Age of Kings and the Age of Empires. The Age of Darkness will start from the last days of Acheron and Old Stygia, with the coming hordes of the Hyborians and Hyrkanians to wipe out the old empires. The Age of Kings will be the time of Conan’s reign, just after the Year of the Dragon. The Age of Empires will start from the height of the Aquilonian and Turanian Empires, while the Picts, Nordheimir and Hyrkanians prepare to rampage across the world to bring the Hyborian Age to an end.
If possible, I might also make an epic campaign called The Hyborian Age. I intend to eventually make a mod that encompasses the whole of the Hyborian Age, from the early stone-age empires to the glittering citadels of Acheron and Dagonia, through the golden era of Conan’s time right up to the Ice Age that sends the world into ruin.

So, is this mod actually going to happen or will it fall apart like so many others?

Wheesht, don't jinx it! I tried to make this mod for Rome: Total War, but I couldn’t make hide nor hair of the various exporters out, despite the very helpful and informative tutorials out there. Most of the changes for the alpha would be texture changes, and I plan on doing most of the concept art myself (indeed, a lot of it is already done for the new factions).

So what’s the story?

The story takes place 2 years after the events chronicled in The Hour of the Dragon. Conan is King of Aquilonia, and has finally made good on a promise to a woman and made Zenobia his queen. Tarascus of Nemedia has reluctantly accepted peace, but bad blood between the Aquilonians and Nemedians will likely boil for eons, at least, until one nation is no more. Young Akkhutho VI has been placed as vassal King of Koth, but the horrors under the Scarlet Citadel are ever present in the King’s thoughts, and threaten to drive him to madness. With the mysterious assassination of the King of Argos, a powerful Merchant Lord has claimed rule over the maritime nation, but “King” Publio will likely face danger from all quarters if he is to keep his throne. Zingara is a broken land, ravaged by civil war and rebellion: a young Countess, Belesa de Korzetta, may be the last hope to heal the country’s strife. Fearful of invasion from their powerful neighbours, the city-states of Corinthia, Ophir and Brythunia must unite their divided lands if they hope to protect themselves from their neighbours.
Far in the icy north, the ancient Kingdom of Hyperborea also plots, the wily King Tomar feeling the time is right for expansion into the soft southern lands. The barbaric Nordheimir fight their endless battle, but the threat of the ice spurs King Tyr of Asgard and King Horsa of Vanaheim to look not only to defend their territory, but expand into new lands. And in the dark hills of Cimmeria, the moody and terrible race of Conan’s ancestors continue to live their dreary lives, with High King Cumal ever watchful of the dangers that lurk in the dark mountains.
While the Hyborian lands bicker, another insidious threat awaits outside their borders: a great Shaman has arisen among the Picts: this man, Teyanoga, may yet bring the tribes together from a savage rabble into a mighty nation. In the Black Kingdom of Kush, King Amboola has liberated his people from the tyranny of the Chaga, but the freedom of his land is only the beginning of his people’s path to independence, as it must content with its rival in the Black Empire of Tombalku, and the ruthless sympathisers of the Chaga in Stygia. To the east, Keshan and Zembabwei battle over the rich land of Punt, and whoever emerges victorious from their rivalry will undoubtedly become a major power in the South.
In the east, war continues to rage: Turan continues to rampage west, crushing everything in Yezdigerd’s relentless storm of conquest. A warlord from the East has united the Hyrkanian tribes, and the glittering citadels of the south and west may be targets for the Wolves of Hyrkania. In Vendhya, the Devi Yasmina continues to reign in peace and prosperity, but the shadow of Yimsha continues to darken her dreams, as well as threat of Kosala to its east. The Himelian tribes north of Vendhya have once again been united under Ghulistan to lead the hillmen to adventure and glory. All this while, mysterious, jungle-haunted Khitai broods menacingly, perhaps ready to unleash a terrible sorcerous conquest upon the earth.
The pastoral lands of Shem have a new ruler: Akhirom, another man who seems to have escaped the jaws of hell, has been appointed ruler over Pelishtia. Olgerd Vladislav, an old nemesis of Conan, has joined the Kozaks and the Zuagir into a mighty union: together, the two Hordes could devastate the East and West.
In the south, the old serpent Stygia continues to slumber: Ctesphon lolls lazily on his throne, but the Children of Set must be ever willing to carry out the orders of the Great Serpent, and the priests of Set will not tolerate the dominance of Mitra and Ishtar for long. Finally, the despotic realm of Zamora lies, caught between the Nemedians, Hyperboreans and Turanians: the spies and assassins of the Spider God will send any nations that threaten them into turmoil and ruin through sabotage, regardless of what King Mitradites says.
Thus is the face of the world. And yet, it seems there is something more taking place, as if gigantic happenings beyond the ken of man are taking place. King Conan has been visited once again by Epimitreus, warning of the treacheries of Set. Akkhutho, Publius and Akhirom's dreams of terror and death threaten to drive them to insanity. Tremendous natural disasters are happening in the northern lands, attributed to the Sons of Ymir and the terrible Gods of the North. Above all, there are ever more frequent rumours of crimes and atrocities linked to the Black Ring of Stygia, the Black Circle of Yimsha, and countless other sorcerous societies. Names long forgotten by common folk like Dagonia, Xuthalla and Cthulhu are being whispered in dark corners of the world. The people are fearful that some great reckoning could be upon them, and all these terrible events are connected.
After all, it cannot be mere coincidence that many of the rulers of the earth have a common link: that of Conan the Cimmerian, the son of a blacksmith who became a King…

This is outrageous! How dare you besmirch Howard’s name in such a manner you scurrilous knave etc etc etc
I’m firmly of the opinion that the only Conan writer out there is Howard himself. Anything out there that wasn’t written by Howard’s own hand is pastiche, be it novel, comic, movie or game mod. I am creating this mod because I loved the idea of having so many different cultures in the same time period, and I want to visualize the glittering hosts of Aquilonia, Nemedia, Stygia and Turan battling the bloody-handed hordes of the Cimmerians, Picts, Nordheimir and Hyrkanians. Total War is by far the best way to realize the great battles featured in the Conan stories, and although most Conan stories are sword-and-sorcery adventures with only a few characters, there are nonetheless many stories featuring massive armies and political power plays, not least the epic Hyborian Age essay. I don’t mind if nobody downloads it: I just want to reenact the Battle at the Goralian Hills, or Shamar, or Valka. I’d just like to share my stuff with anyone who might be interested.
Howard created Conan and the Hyborian Age. We mere mortals just get to play in this blue-mantled sandbox of barbaric splendour.

Well, I wish you the best of luck for your mod. It looks like you've already done a lot of work, and have the will to release it.


It might even lead me to read Howard's books (ATM, I've only read his Cthulhu Mythos novels).

The best thing about hte Howard world IS the fact that the big battles were on the edges of hte stories. It means the bigger picture is left very sketchy nad flexible. The actual soldiers are and their gear is described, which gives you modelling pointers, but the rest is left pretty open to interpretation.

I think this is an ideal world for a MTW2 mod! Lots of war, lots of empire building. There is a drop of magic...but it is the sort of stuff that would fit well as traits and such like. It wasn't of the big fireball type, but was more subtle.

Also...for anyone wanting to read the books ... Start off with the GENUINE Howard material, not the stuff co-written by L Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter. They 'finished off' a lot of unfinished writings, and in some cases wrote complete tales from a few notes and story outlines Howard had left. These stories are nowhere near the quality of the real unadulterated material.

It's like the difference between a real H P Lovecraft tale, and one penned by August Derleth. One is real...one is a fake!

Cheers guys.

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

It might even lead me to read Howard's books (ATM, I've only read his Cthulhu Mythos novels).

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Howard was one of the three writers, along with Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith, who created the original Cthulhu mythos. If you like his mythos tales, I'd recommend his Solomon Kane & Bran Mak Morn tales, as well as his non-mythos horror tales like Pigeons from Hell. And the original Conan tales, of course.

This are great places to start regarding Conan:
The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, along with the other books in the series.

Seems Like a really cool mod!!!
do you have any idea when approximately it will be released???

Oooh, I've always wanted to say this...

When it's Ready!

In all seriousness, I can't really put a date on it, but I'm sure it'll be out this year. Since things are going well, possibly even before winter. But I don't want to get people worked up for a release date only for some problem to happen and keep putting extensions on it. It won't take an EB amount of time though, I'm not doing as much stuff as them!

Temples and the Gods:

With Mitra, Ishtar, Set, Derketa and Tarim's names uttered by the various cultures of the Hyborian world. What other Deities will be listed in this Mod? We know outright that Crom is worshiped by the Cimmerians but they have no cult or temple built in Crom's name and is the a cult to Mannanan or Morigan in Cimmeria (seems the Cimmerian pantheon is Celtic/Irish). Then the Dieties of Darfar, Kush, Punt, Keshan and the Black Kingdoms, one deity whose name starts with a J; will have to look up the name, but it has the Queen Tananda and Diana in it. Then there is Ymir of Asgard (like the Cimmerian's Crom(does Ymir even have a cult or Temple)? Then what of the god's of Khitai, Iranistan and Vendhya?

Have a look at them.

http://hyboria.xoth.net/gods/gods.htm

I plan to use the religious feature as fully as I can in the mod, though naturally there are a few problems that might require a work-around.

As it stands, there are five religions in Medieval 2: Catholicism, Orthodox, Islam, Pagan and Heretic. I believe you can add another two religions, but one of them cannot have priests. I'm working on a rough outline for the religious system, which means a couple of religions will "double-up": Tarim, Asura, Yun and other gods will fall under "Eastern Mysticism", though their respective factions will build their own temples according to their deity. This means that when a Khitan church is built, it will be a "Temple of Yun" as opposed to some generic Temple of Eastern Mysticism, so it'll have a bit of individuality.

The fact that the seventh religion does not allow priests is naturally no problem for the barbarians. I'm thinking their religious "buildings" will actually be pre-built holy places like groves or mountains deemed to be the places gods dwell, so providing religious contentment bonuses without being overt.

Sadly, I don't think the heretic religion can be applied to a faction, so the "heretics" and witches will be retooled into rogue sorcerers causing trouble and spreading discontent much in the same way as in vanilla, but more formidable and dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Gurkhal

Have a look at them.

http://hyboria.xoth.net/gods/gods.htm

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And I have Gurkhal, there does seem to be a few missing none the less, no list is ever perfect, but who is to say, Taranaich will use which gods that are appropriate.
:england: :france: :denmark:

Needless to say, I will endeavour to cram as much of Howard's stuff into the mod as I can, which includes the gods he mentioned. :egypt:

Good luck with this mod. I am great fan of Howard's work on the Hyborian age and look forward to this mod.
I am impressed that it seems you have produced most of this work yourself.
I hope you finish as I most definitely would enjoying playing this mod.

I am utterly determined to make sure this mod is released. There were a few close-calls recently like when my power supply failed, and before I made a formal announcement I had actually lost a lot of graphical work in a system crash, and had to start that again. It wasn't a great loss though, as they were mostly flat placeholder textures.

And I'm always glad to see another Howard fan!

By the gods! The awesomeness of this project is
No word god describe it!

I don't have M2:TW, but I can enjoy screenshots and AARs (?) none the less!
Bravo!

And greetings to you too, son of Gwynedd! (I presume?)

AARs will be coming up when I've balanced the units sufficiently to make a worthwhile one, hopefully it'll be pretty illuminating. I might go with an established one like Nemedia v Aquilonia, or the Picts v Cimmerians.

We'll see.:2thumbsup:

I'm not really from Gwynedd, I'm from Norway. I just wanted a fitting name when I registered here, and liked Cadwalader. Only later, when I visited Wales, I found out it's actually stil in use..

There was a Northern (Union, Federal) ACW general with the name of Cadwalader, from New Hampshire or somewhere back east.

Welsh is a tongue-twisting language if you're not Welsh and don't speak it.

Chris

Actually I think Welsh isn't a problem. Norway have much the same sounds!

I often wonder why englishmen say "i" as "ai" for example.. :inquisitive:

Ha ha ha!!! 'Aye' too, or is that 'a' (long)?? Aye-aye sir = i-i sir = eye-eye sir.

Oi-vay, -vey, vei. Aren't languages fun???

Chris

Hi, this has really peaked my interest and is probably one reason I finally decided to register:laugh4: .I am familiar with Conan through the marvel Comics, and the movies never really read Howard before, other than a Solomon kane short story in a Weird Tales collection. I am a big Lovecraft fan so I knew of him just never took the time to look up the books. Your thread peaked my interest so much that I just ordered a Conan collection by Howard from Ebay (Ebay makes it so easy now to find hard to find books.) I really hope this mod makes it to finish as I would love to play it. I imagine my interest will go up after I read the stories. :2thumbsup:

Hey there Tyrelliuz, welcome to the boards.

I'm glad that I could promote enthusiasm for Howard through the mod too, another reader is always great!

I hope that no matter what you stick with this mod, if i knew anything about modding i would love to help but i really dont know anything. I wish you the best of luck and i eagerly eagerly await this mod. I can't even start to think which nation i would want to start first

Thanks for the support born2dive!

Even if I cannot complete the mod for whatever reason, I'll release something. This might just be the text files, textures and factions for a custom battle mod, or just a "faction pack" to replace one faction with a Hyborian one (Hyborian invasion anyone?) but I'd rather give something to the community than just declare the mod dead and have nothing come of it.

If nothing else, I could just release the texture replacements so you could play as Cimmeria or Aquilonia in modern Europe, but that's a bit lame if you ask me. :P

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Originally Posted by Taranaich

If nothing else, I could just release the texture replacements so you could play as Cimmeria or Aquilonia in modern Europe, but that's a bit lame if you ask me. :P

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now, now, no crazy talk Tar! you'll see this through, i'm sure :2thumbsup:

ps is it safe to assume that you're conan.com's Taranaich? i don't post there much, but i've been a member for years and agree with many of your views on lore.

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Originally Posted by Senta

ps is it safe to assume that you're conan.com's Taranaich? i don't post there much, but i've been a member for years and agree with many of your views on lore.

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Argh, busted! :sweatdrop:

I am indeed he, and I appreciate your compliment regarding the lore. Even after 75 years, debate on Conan and the Hyborian Age is still raging!

I also noticed that! I've mainly been lurking as of yet, though.

Hello,

I've been Robert E. Howard fan since I was a kid, so I just thought to say that your mod looks very interesting. I hope you'll have the time, inspiration and energy to finish it. I've been observing these forums for some time, but I thought to throw in a few words of encouragement. I'm sure there a lot more people interested in playing this than is apparent from posts on the forum.

Your plans concerning using Crusade mechanics to represent power of the Black Ring is interesting. However, there are two other realms that are described as being heavily sorcerous - Khitai and Hyperborea. If you don't plant to include Khitai in the mod (it would be huge after all, maybe smart to cut the map at Hyrkania?), it still leaves Hyperborea. Of course, Stygia is described as being defended with black magics while Hyperborea sends warriors on the field, so maybe the sorcerous influences in that bleak, cold land can be represented in the form of auxilaries and traits only.

Do you need any help with this mod? I'm very interested in the Conan universe and I'm just starting to read all of Howard's Conan stories. If needed, I can help with 2D artwork and I can learn to code and possibly even map.

Look what I found!
it is a very good site with kingdom reports of every country and maps of certain regions: http://www.terrablood.com/hw.htm

Hey Majestic, what happened to the other five? (sorry, silly conspiracy reference) :book:

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Originally Posted by Majestic7

I've been Robert E. Howard fan since I was a kid, so I just thought to say that your mod looks very interesting. I hope you'll have the time, inspiration and energy to finish it. I've been observing these forums for some time, but I thought to throw in a few words of encouragement. I'm sure there a lot more people interested in playing this than is apparent from posts on the forum.

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Well, thanks very much for the encouragement. It would be great for people to at least try the mod, hopefully it'll be well received. If nothing else, the history buffs can have fun pitting legions against knights, cavemen against vikings, and ninjas against pirates. :2thumbsup:

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Your plans concerning using Crusade mechanics to represent power of the Black Ring is interesting. However, there are two other realms that are described as being heavily sorcerous - Khitai and Hyperborea. If you don't plant to include Khitai in the mod (it would be huge after all, maybe smart to cut the map at Hyrkania?), it still leaves Hyperborea. Of course, Stygia is described as being defended with black magics while Hyperborea sends warriors on the field, so maybe the sorcerous influences in that bleak, cold land can be represented in the form of auxilaries and traits only.

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I'm hoping to include Khitai in the third iteration of the mod. Although Khitai is depicted as huge in most maps and pastiches, it doesn't really seem to be the case from the few clues Howard gives us. It's still a pretty big and powerful kingdom, but most of the north is actually Hyrkanian land as opposed to Khitan. Some eastern factions will get access to Khitan mercenaries, including the dreadfully powerful Sorcerers of Yun, the most powerful sorcerers in melee combat.

The idea of Hyperborea being heavy on sorcery is almost entirely a pastiche invention. Nowhere in Howard's original writings is there any implication of sorcery in Hyperborea, it seems just a pretty standard Hyborian Kingdom with more snow. However, since the idea of Hyperborea being a sorcerous nation is extremely popular (and pretty cool), I'm implementing the possibility of the player making Hyperborea into a sorcerous nation through buildings and research on the campaign map. Hyperborea is thus a normal nation at the start of the game, but if the player wants to raise an undead army then they can build temples to dark gods and recruit them at the cost of severely freaking out their people. If I move the mod over to Kingdoms, then the possibility of changing a faction's religion will be used, where the honest Bori-worshipping Hyperborea can switch to worship of Set.

The major sorcerous factions will be Stygia, Kosala, Khitai, Vendhya and Zamora, with Pelishtia, Koth and the Picts having pretty impressive magicks themselves, though nowhere near the might of those five. All the other nations will have some sort of sorcerous presence, mostly just temples to their local deity and a priest unit to help ward off lesser nasties, but they're basically straws in the wind against concentrated magic assault.

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Do you need any help with this mod? I'm very interested in the Conan universe and I'm just starting to read all of Howard's Conan stories. If needed, I can help with 2D artwork and I can learn to code and possibly even map.

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I don't need help at the moment, but if and when I do I'll give you a call. Keep going with the suggestions though, suggestions are always welcome.

When will you guys release a province map?

I'll get a blank province map out pretty soon, just prettying it up at the moment.

Naming the cities & provinces is a bit of a nightmare. Though most of the important ones are fairly easy, coming up with names for others isn't, and since I set out to make a non-pastiche mod this means I'd have to make up an awful lot of places.

The reasoning for this is that, although the pastiches give us plenty of information on places Howard didn't illuminate, I just flat out disagree with a lot of them. Howard made a point of having his cities bear similarities to historical ones, (Tarantia/Tarentum, Khorshemish/Carchemish, Khawarizm/Khwarezm etc) so it's a general "thing" that he did. However, some cities of the pastiches like Alkarion, Pirogia and Haloga don't seem to have any resemblance to a historical city, and they don't really sound Howardian at all IMHO. Indeed, DeCamp and Carter actually criticized Howard for what they viewed as a lack of imagination (spot the irony), and so they completely made up names despite Howard clearly establishing a convention of naming cities after notable historical ones. He could make up names perfectly fine for his Thurian Age and ancient evil cities, so he obviously designed it this way.

Hopefully by doing this I can make the mod a bit more Howardian. Plus, I just never really liked the names for Hyperborea's cities.

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Originally Posted by Taranaich

Hey Majestic, what happened to the other five? (sorry, silly conspiracy reference) :book:

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They stole the Heart of Ahriman and well... you know what tends to happen to people who own that gemstone.

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The idea of Hyperborea being heavy on sorcery is almost entirely a pastiche invention. Nowhere in Howard's original writings is there any implication of sorcery in Hyperborea, it seems just a pretty standard Hyborian Kingdom with more snow. However, since the idea of Hyperborea being a sorcerous nation is extremely popular (and pretty cool), I'm implementing the possibility of the player making Hyperborea into a sorcerous nation through buildings and research on the campaign map. Hyperborea is thus a normal nation at the start of the game, but if the player wants to raise an undead army then they can build temples to dark gods and recruit them at the cost of severely freaking out their people. If I move the mod over to Kingdoms, then the possibility of changing a faction's religion will be used, where the honest Bori-worshipping Hyperborea can switch to worship of Set.

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I'm aware of the involvement of pastiches on sorcerous Hyperborea - however, such idea fits the cold kingdom so perfectly that I've learned to accept it. I'm quite a purist when it comes to the Hyborian Age otherwise. Hmmm, how about replacing Set with Tsathoggua? Sounds pretty exotic, I'm sure - but Howards Thurian and Hyborian Ages take arguably place in the world of Cthulhu Mythos, following the Hyperborean Age of Clark Ashton Smith. The Frog God is even mentioned by Howard as being worshipped far south. Hyperborea is located in the right place for Voorish ruins to be uncovered, perhaps that way entering in to an age of dark sorcery? Heh, just a suggestion that came to mind. I run Conan RPG myself and tend to mix Mythos in to it.

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The major sorcerous factions will be Stygia, Kosala, Khitai, Vendhya and Zamora, with Pelishtia, Koth and the Picts having pretty impressive magicks themselves, though nowhere near the might of those five. All the other nations will have some sort of sorcerous presence, mostly just temples to their local deity and a priest unit to help ward off lesser nasties, but they're basically straws in the wind against concentrated magic assault.

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You will include Kosala as a faction? Surprising, I thought them to be rather insignificant in their own right. Have you thought about including sorcery in the form of uber-assassins and spies for some factions? What comes to Picts and Cimmerians, having them portrayed as an united nation sounds a bit strange. How about having the player first take control of one tribe being tasked to subjugate other (rebel) tribes, after which a confederation of some sort would be formed?

Well, if I had any modding skills I'd be sure to offer help. Too bad I can't really do anything useful, heh. One thing I can do is writing though, so if you happen to need help writing unit descriptions or such, that I can do.

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Originally Posted by Majestic7

They stole the Heart of Ahriman and well... you know what tends to happen to people who own that gemstone.

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Heh heh.:beam:

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I'm aware of the involvement of pastiches on sorcerous Hyperborea - however, such idea fits the cold kingdom so perfectly that I've learned to accept it. I'm quite a purist when it comes to the Hyborian Age otherwise.

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A lot of people have, it's very pervasive. This is why I offer the choice for an involved player to turn Hyperborea into the Evil Empire of the pastiches: since Howard had sorcerers puppeteering the kings of normally non-sorcerous countries (Tsotha-Lanti the power behind Koth, Yara in Zamora, Xaltotun in Nemedia) I thought that the ability of the player to start things rolling in that direction would be pretty true to Howard. If the wizards were successful in their goals, then they could've set up nasty sorcerous empires like the pastiche Hyperboreans.

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Hmmm, how about replacing Set with Tsathoggua? Sounds pretty exotic, I'm sure - but Howards Thurian and Hyborian Ages take arguably place in the world of Cthulhu Mythos, following the Hyperborean Age of Clark Ashton Smith. The Frog God is even mentioned by Howard as being worshipped far south. Hyperborea is located in the right place for Voorish ruins to be uncovered, perhaps that way entering in to an age of dark sorcery? Heh, just a suggestion that came to mind. I run Conan RPG myself and tend to mix Mythos in to it.

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That was indeed an idea I had, that Howard's Hyperborea had a few elements of Smith's. Although it's quite controvertial among Howard (and Lovecraft and Smith) enthusiasts, I personally do subscribe to the shared mythos of the three writers being intentional. As such, I might include some Smithian elements in my mod, including Tsathoggua, who Howard seemed to be a big fan of.

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You will include Kosala as a faction? Surprising, I thought them to be rather insignificant in their own right. Have you thought about including sorcery in the form of uber-assassins and spies for some factions?

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Although it seems that Kosala isn't a big player, a study through the references seems to indicate Kosala being a pretty big cheese in the sorcerous department. Most of the choices I made for factions are based on Dale Rippke's essay The Blue East. Kosala's disposition for pretty heavy-hitting magic (artificial lighting, fruit that feeds on air, sceptres that fling fireballs) as well as Baal-Pteor's propensity for both physical brutality and mesmerism makes me think Kosala is pretty worth of inclusion.

Sorcery on the campaign map will include some nasties, where Stygia, Kosala et al use extremely powerful demons as their assassins and spies. The dreaded Inquisitors will become particularly nasty demons.

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What comes to Picts and Cimmerians, having them portrayed as an united nation sounds a bit strange. How about having the player first take control of one tribe being tasked to subjugate other (rebel) tribes, after which a confederation of some sort would be formed?

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That's the plan. Currently the Cimmerians own a single province, and they have to either ally with or subjugate other tribes to make Cimmeria one nation. The Picts start off with an alliance of four tribes: the Wolves, Hawks, Wildcats, and Turtles were tentatively allies as of Wolves Beyond the Border, and I'm working under the implication that another son of Jhebbal-Sag has arisen to unite them under one banner. I might change it to just the Wolf tribe, but combined with Aquilonia and the dangerous Pictish Wilderness it might be too difficult for the player.

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Well, if I had any modding skills I'd be sure to offer help. Too bad I can't really do anything useful, heh. One thing I can do is writing though, so if you happen to need help writing unit descriptions or such, that I can do.

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I'll remember that, cheers!

What kind of combat model do you plan to use? Between R:TW and M:TW II coming out I played mostly Europa Barbarorum and Rome Total Realism. I learned to like their combat models, with low speed of losses compared to the vanilla game, although the missile weapons were underpowered. Thus when M:TW II and later Kingdoms came out, it felt that the battles were decided too fast and even heavily armored troops were cut down too easily.

So I guess it boils down to whether you'll keep feeling of the vanilla combat or try to achieve something where soldiers don't die so fast and mass routs decide the battle instead of a mass slaughter?

The combat model will be a mix depending on the combatants.

Barbarian battles will be quick and bloody, as they tend to just charge right to it without thinking of pacing themselves, and usually end with massive casualties. Hyborian, Hyrkanian and Shemite battles are comparatively restrained, where battles are much longer and suffer few casualties, with routing being a more common result.

A quick look at the Conan tales gives a rough idea:

The Frost-Giant's Daughter = Conan is the only survivor of a bloody battle between AEsir and Vanir.
The Scarlet Citadel = Conan's knights are massacred by Kothic-Ophirean soldiers. None of these knights fled, apparently preferring death to the shame of surrender. Later, Conan routs the Kothic-Ophirean army.
Black Colossus = Conan's small army routs a large horde of Stygians, Kush-ites and Shemites, of which roughly half are killed.
Iron Shadows in the Moon = Conan is the only survivor of his Kozak horde, which are annihilated by Turanian forces.
The People of the Black Circle = Vendhyan cavalry rout Turanian cavalry whilst engaging an Afghuli army.
A Witch Shall Be Born = Conan's Zuagir take a Shemite-controlled city with moderate casualties, though their rivalry seems to indicate that no quarter will be given.
The Hour of the Dragon = The Aquilonian army is routed at Valkia, the Nemedian army at the Goralian Hills, all suffering only moderate casualties.

Overall, the speed of battle depends on which factions are fighting, the longest between two civilized nations, the shortest between two barbaric ones. A barbaric versus a civilized one will depend on the balance: a stronger barbarian force indicates a short battle, for example.

Taranaich, anything you are modelling/skinning at a moment?

For no apparent reason, I feel I need to post this,
http://www.conan.com/invboard/index.php?showtopic=5000

In it, a 2nd cousin of Robert E. Howard posts. He even served in 'Nam in 1969-1971. Seems that the family tree which produced Konan's writer (my own peculiarity to call him Konan, not Conan, please excuse me that) is still going strong after all these years.

I have to agree with Taranaich that if you want to read and know Conan read ONLY stuff that Robert E. Howard wrote. I did try to read some others' stuff with an open mind, but something felt very, VERY wrong in an indescribable way. It may just be me, I dunno.

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Originally Posted by keravnos

Taranaich, anything you are modelling/skinning at a moment?

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At the moment I'm working on the Shemites, who I'm pretty pleased with armour and clothing-wise. The only thing they're really missing are the distinctive Shemite beards, which will be done when I get Milkshape sorted out (or figure out a way to import M2 models into Lightwave). They look alright at the moment, but it's just not the same without the mighty bushes on their chins.

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I have to agree with Taranaich that if you want to read and know Conan read ONLY stuff that Robert E. Howard wrote. I did try to read some others' stuff with an open mind, but something felt very, VERY wrong in an indescribable way. It may just be me, I dunno.

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There have been some very good pasticheurs like Karl Edward Wagner and John Maddox Roberts, whose Conan stories are pretty effective, if not on Howard's own level. However, some of them are not just poorly written, but actively kind of offensive in their mediocrity: Roland Green, Steve Perry and Harry Turtledove's attempts are best ignored IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Taranaich

The combat model will be a mix depending on the combatants.

Barbarian battles will be quick and bloody, as they tend to just charge right to it without thinking of pacing themselves, and usually end with massive casualties. Hyborian, Hyrkanian and Shemite battles are comparatively restrained, where battles are much longer and suffer few casualties, with routing being a more common result.

(stuff cut from between)

Overall, the speed of battle depends on which factions are fighting, the longest between two civilized nations, the shortest between two barbaric ones. A barbaric versus a civilized one will depend on the balance: a stronger barbarian force indicates a short battle, for example.

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So in game terms - barbarian units will have high attack and morale values, but poor defense and armor, while civilized units will have average attack and morale, but good defense and armor? It should be noted that casualties talked about in Conan stories don't necessary imply massive scale of deaths on the battlefield in itself - but as well pretty much every wounded man expiring of his wounds. I believe this can be represented in the game as well by giving the barbarian factions much worse chances of healing casualties after the battle.

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Originally Posted by Majestic7

So in game terms - barbarian units will have high attack and morale values, but poor defense and armor, while civilized units will have average attack and morale, but good defense and armor?

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Pretty much.

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It should be noted that casualties talked about in Conan stories don't necessary imply massive scale of deaths on the battlefield in itself - but as well pretty much every wounded man expiring of his wounds. I believe this can be represented in the game as well by giving the barbarian factions much worse chances of healing casualties after the battle.

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Yup. Overall the impressions I got from the battles is that barbarians and similarly savage peoples like the Desert Shemites had bloody and deadly battles, but the Hyborians and Hyrkanians had battles more like medieval ones. Conan said that 50,000 people had died at the battle of Shamla Pass in Black Colossus: though it's just a rough estimate on Conan's part, it's still a pretty heft number of casualties.

What is required to play this actual "The Hyborian Age: Total War" adventure game module on my computer?????????, and, when will this actual adventure game module be released this year actually???????, and, will King Conan of Aquilonia himself be fully featured in this game module???????

Welcome to the forums, Abarrman.

I'm not sure of the requirements beyond having Medieval 2: Total War. Taranaich will probably be able to answer that.

But King Conan will definitely be in the mod. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Abarrman

What is required to play this actual "The Hyborian Age: Total War" adventure game module on my computer?????????

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Medieval 2: Kingdoms, plus (I estimate) an extra few gigabytes disc space to give the mod room to breathe.

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and, when will this actual adventure game module be released this year actually???????

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I've always been terrible at estimating dates, but after the big relaunch preview I hope to get it released some time before the year 3000. :2thumbsup:

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will King Conan of Aquilonia himself be fully featured in this game module???????

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He most certainly shall! Can't very well have a Conan mod without Conan.

Hopefully there is still life in this ?

By Crom and Mitra, yes, there is! :2thumbsup:

Yes, still life, but not much to show for it yet. Things have been going a tiny smidgen faster than in recent weeks, so here's hoping!

~:)
Most Excellent! It looks amazing so far.

Oh hell yeah, a Conan mod for M2TW! I've yet to play M2, but I'm a Conan fan (especially the mythology). I look forward to following this mod's progress.

By the way, might I suggest you add a FAQ thread? I just found this mod now, but I don't know where to start reading.

Oh, and hi keravnos =)

-Glee

Ahoy Reverend & Gleemonex!

An FAQ would be a capital idea, I'll see if I can get one done.

Don't know if you have seen this yet,

http://www.geocities.com/baldurstrand/hyboria/

Maybe it can help flesh out Hyboria a bit better.

Oh, and Hello Gleemonex! Kinda figured out you would end up in these shores.