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I'm curious...after Alexandros died, Ptolemy attacked his funeral procession and entombed his body in Alexandria correct? For centuries, it became a major tourist attraction in the Hellenistic and Roman world. What ever eventually happened to it? Did it vanish from history, or is the supposed tomb in Constantinople the one of Megas Alexandros?
Pompey got his cloak and never let go,
Caesar kissed his mummified corpse in Alexandreia and its nose broke off,
All sort of things are rumored to have happened.
Mnema of Megas Alexandros is elusive like the wind. It might have been transported to Constantinople. Truth is we don't know.
Wasn't the mummy falling apart, so the tomb was closed for public viewing and it kind of faded out of history from there on? I heard once, that it was relocated to catacombs under Alexandreia at one point to protect it from a seige or something, and some think he is still there.
It would be awesome if they found his corpse and the sarcophagus . It would also allow gene marker testing so the ethnocentric bickering can end and maybe find the dude's ancestors or at least a general area of what populations there in.
If i'm not Mistakein one of the sarcophagus are still around..its stone and not the glass one..Its in eygpt ive seen photos of it..I'm not sure if his bodie ever made it into it or not..but im sure there where more then 3 differnt coffens.
I read the entire thing. Very interesting, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by oudysseos
Thanks for the link.Quote:
Originally Posted by oudysseos
I think Septimius Severus closed the tomb for visitors.
im pretty sure it was Augustus who kissed the corpse and its nose broke off... but i may be wrong.... :book:Quote:
Originally Posted by keravnos
A truly magnificant link...thanks!
I am convinced that the tomb still exists, buried somewhere under Alexandria. Perhaps the Islamic sources could help locate the whereabouts. Wasn't the Muslims just as admiring of Alexandros as the Europeans? I doubt if they would have destroyed/desicrated his tomb during their sack of the city....despite buring the Library.
The last news I heard was that the body of a christian saint find at the time of the dissapearing of the body of Alexander, is going to be analized for details. Sadly i forgot where I read this news.
Cheers.
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Originally Posted by Reno Melitensis
I'm pretty sure that is illegal.
:laugh4:
From what I understand, the burning of the Library of Alexandria by Muslims in the seventh century was a myth. However, Caesar and Theophilus still did their parts, as did Saladin later IIRC.:book:Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasios Garamantos
I uderstand it as a myth also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rundownloser
Really? I read in Feats and Wisdom of the Ancients that the leader of the Muslims noticed the dusty scrolls in the Library and asked someone what to do with them. "Burn them!" He was advised, "For either they contain what is in the Koran, which we already know, or they contain what is contrary to the Koran, which we must destroy." So the scrolls were used as fuel for Alexandria's many baths. That kinda does sound fishy...
Yeah, that was one of the many bits o' propaganda used to justify the crusades and anti-Islamic sentiments in the Christian sphere.
whether or not the islamites actually destroyed the library they certainlyt destroyed any remnants of the culture which had maintained it.
1st off, "Islamites"?!Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
2nd, I think it's a little quick to blame the destruction of the "the culture" on Islam. Personally, I'm not a too keen on clear-cut definitions of culture; however, I think that if anybody is "at fault" for this it would probably be the Christian influence. It led to a lot of enmity to a lot of social upheaval and had a nasty anti-intellectualism strain, which in turn caused the destruction of many texts, especially from Greek and other ancient philosophers. If anything, the only reason why we have very much of any ancient Greek philosophy (namely Aristotle) is because it was preserved by said Islamites. Muslim philosophy during the golden age (roughly 8th to 15th centuries) was steeped in Greek philosophy. One could make a strong argument that more of this "culture" sustained by Muslim influence as opposed to destroyed.
yes i agree that christianity had an incredibly diestructive effect on egypt - horrific in fact.
it is just my belief that following the islamic conquest egypt ceased to become a significant centre of culture. although the conversion to christiantiy had been fairly destructive, the egyptian "christian" cutlure that flourished afterwards was very rich. egypt was one of the centres of earlly christianity and alot of significant christian trends and traditions can indeed be said to have started there. furthermore the several elements of christianity can arguably be said to have derived from the religions of pagan egypt. what is more christainty was preached in coptic - a direct continuation of egypts rich culture.
following the islamic onslaught, the coptic language as gradually phased out. egyptains today see themselves as arabic and it is very hard to discern any link to their past.
i would argue that following the arabic invasion egypt has completely ceased to have any signifcant cultural output. for the last 1300 years, it has in the main been a money making outpost of somebody elses empire. i mean it was even dominated by a military elite made up of foreign "slaves" (mamluks) for a long period.
you only have to look at the country today to see what a sorry state it has become. it is just another arabic/islamic corrupt authoritarian regime. their most notable impact in the last 10 years is to have given us al quedas no2. i find it had to see them ever regaining a fraction of their former significance.
It took neary thousand years befor the coptic langage passed out of the dayly usage. And even today 10% of the population are copts.Quote:
following the islamic onslaught, the coptic language as gradually phased out. egyptains today see themselves as arabic and it is very hard to discern any link to their past.
yes i have afew coptic friends actually. within egypt they are a barely tolerated/abused minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trax
i belive that egypt didnt become majority islamite until the 1200.
it is a shame- ther was a realy wasted opportunity with the crusades. controlling egypt was in all likelihood the only way to maintain long term power in the holy land.
i believe there was one or two attempts made at this (In particular the seventh crusade).
it is interesting to imagine how things might have turned out if there had been a conderted effort to return egypt to christendom.
Oh, like the political and social philosophy of Pan-Arabism, aka Arab Nationalism, which was pretty much the most important thing to hit the Middle East since European colonialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
"Islamic onslaught"?! Excellent...
I am sure he meant it as a compliment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rundownloser
oh, what a fantastic philosophy that has turned out to be. that one goes down in the ledger as a net negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rundownloser
Surprisingly enough not everything that has come out of the region has been made of sugar/spice/everything nice, but you suggested that the area "ceased to have any significant cultural output" and I showed you something from the area that has had significant cultural significance. Does this not disprove your assertion?Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
yes i guess if you want to play with semantics i guess your right, i had meant a positive contribution though.
Egypt lost that position after the Roman culture. Since then, Greeks, Romans, and Arabs have added to the Egyptian culture and helped make it what is is today. Undoubtly however, the Arabs have had the most significant influence. It happened across Northern Africa, everyone there today thinks that they're Arabs, though they are Berbers, Egyptians, Sudanese...etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
I think egypt is pretty awesome. It has faults, like every country. It has some very strong points too. Egypt is and has been a land of ancient knowledge and will forever hold a place at least in my heart as a place of wonder. :egypt:
All that I can say is I hope to God that The Persian Cataphract leaves something of you left behind .
Fact is I think thats him sharpening his ax .
Quote:
Originally Posted by russia almighty
who me?
i didnt think the persian cataphract was a big fan of islam.
pan-arabism/arab nationalism on the other hand has always had a problem with persians.
Its not just "semantics." I don't see how I was playing word games or using technicalities to my advantage by taking "what you said" as "what you meant."Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
Not every single element of Pan-Arabism is totally evil. Much like other political/social philosophies it has some good (political secularism, anti-colonialism, political/social independence, etc.) and some bad (too militant, sometimes too secularist, etc.).
In addition, I was under the impression that Egypt remained not only a center of education, but also important center of cultural exchange and trade. Hell, Egypt was the center of the Fatimid dynasty's power.
yes i think things like secularism were to be admired- yet they are not exlusive to pan-arabism.
on the negative side - well you could say the regimes in iraq, syria and egypt are its ideological descendants.
if you compare the progress of asian countries like south korea and malaysia it is noticable how poorly the arab states have fared.