AI Battle Formation Mods

Ave fellow EB fans,


The following download is a zip file that contains several folders with installers within. This download will provide the EB Player with the opportunity to play EB using alternative Battle AI Formations and/or Player Formations. The EB Player will have the option to install either Darth Formations 16.2, Sinuhet’s 7.0 AI Battle Formations, and/or Marcus Camillus Player Formations with new formation buttons for the Roman UI. Provided with MC’s Player Formations will be his readme.txt file, which if one is inclined, can be referred to as a guide if need be. As it illustrates the proper unit mixture for sharp looking Republican and Imperial Legion Formations at it relates to this add-on. All the while, maintaining the ability to draw upon various non-roman formations as well. I’ve also taken the liberty of including an EB Archive installer. In which all modified files affected by the various add-ons included in this download, will be in their original form. So if at any point, the EB Player is so inclined, he or she can revert back to their original installation, simply by running the installer and pointing it towards the root directory of their EB installation.

These add-ons are intended for EB v1.1 installed on RTW 1.5. However, can be used and installed in the same fashion with no conflicts, if you happen to run EB with the BI executable ( 1.6 ) or ALEX.exe. These add-ons are also compatible with most unofficial fan made mods floating around the EB forums. As long as the unofficial mod that is to be used in conjunction with one of these add-ons doesn’t have it’s own formations or happen to be a mod-foldered mini mod. Then all should be good to go. The various add-ons and edited files provided here, merely reflect my “tastes” in gameplay and in the editing process. In that respect, perhaps they will suit others as well.

Credits:

Darth Vader: For permitting me the opportunity to share a modified version of his Darth Formations 16.2 code with my fellow EB Players.

Sinuhet: For permitting me the opportunity to share a modified version of his 7.0 AI Battle Formations code with my fellow EB Players.

Marcus Camillus: For graciously giving me leave to include his player formations mod in this download.

Snake_IV: For his formation buttons for the Roman UI.

Last, but certainly not least…….

The entire Europa Barbarorum team for their hardwork and dedication to providing us their fans, with a truly rich and unique gaming experience centered in the Classical World we all love and they have managed to bring to life in details to numerous to name.



Installation Instructions:
1) Unpack download in a place of your choosing.
2) Choose add-on and go into it’s respective folder.
3) Run installer located in folder and point towards the root directory of your EB installation.
For example I call my installation Europa Barbarorum. So were I to point the Installer to my root directory….it would look like this…….
C:\Program Files\The Creative Assembly\Europa Barbarorum…
yours may be something like this….
C:\Program Files\Activision or The Creative Assembly\Rome-Total War 1.5…
4) Once target line is acquired, finish running the installer. It will take care of the rest.

Final Note: If installing Darth Formations along with MC’s Player Formations. MC’s Player Formations must be installed second in the installation procedure. The order is of no consequence if installing MC’s Player Formations with Sinuhet’s.


Vale,
Lysander13

Download Link:
http://files.filefront.com/AI+Battle.../fileinfo.html

You have no idea how long i've been waiting for something like this!!!

:iloveyou:

Great job :2thumbsup:

I am glad to see more variations in battle tactics for EB.It just makes EB more enjoyable and better~:cheers:

Thanks mlp. It was actuallly with your encouragement that i decided to seek permission and upload these edited files in the first place. I have always enjoyed playing EB with either Darth's or Sinuhet's AI, perhaps there will be others who enjoy one or the other as well.

On a side note, for those who haven't done so already; if you choose to use one of these formation mods or really even if you don't, I would go ahead and make one small change to the edu. It involves the class line entry in the edu. Change all units that have a class line entry of "skirmish" to "missile".
( There's about 37 or so) It appears as of the next release this will be done anyway ( MAA i believe said so more or less recently in a thread around here somewhere ) but it's something simple so you might as well just get it over with now. So you won't have to ask yourself why on some occasions you'll see Velites, Peltastai or some other unit affixed with the skirmish tag lining up somewhere they shouldn't be. Not to mention mcantu pointed out that this small change seems to solve AI spamming javelin units in campaign. Which makes perfect sense when you think about it because sometimes a javelin unit affixed with the skirmish tag will be placed in an infantry slot within the formation and on the same token it seems be spammed as an infantry unit in campaign when it's obvious that shouldn't be the intent. It seems the code is remnant to some extent but appears to me anyway not fully functional perhaps. Anyway, in case someone doesn't know what in hades i'm talking about here is the code for the edu....

in your text editor use the replace function (ctrl-H for notepad users)
in the find what box copy/paste the following entry:

Code:

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class            skirmish

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in the replace with box copy/paste the following entry:

Code:

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class            missile

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Click replace all and save.

edu = export_descr_unit ??? :inquisitive:

yes

Darth's have been working stupendously!

Sinhuet's have trouble with AI reinforcements. Often the reinforcing army enters the battlefield and remains in place at the far endl. Frustrating.

Darth's armies join up before attacking, sometimes from different angles. Very cool.

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Originally posted by GracchusTheGreat

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Darth's have been working stupendously!

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Good to hear your enjoying them.:2thumbsup:

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Sinhuet's have trouble with AI reinforcements. Often the reinforcing army enters the battlefield and remains in place at the far endl. Frustrating.

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Hmmm...Just out of curiosity what unit size were you playing with when you experienced the idle reinforcing army using Sinuhet's? Did you happen to experience this on more than one occasion? I'm gonna check it out and see if i can get it to happen to me and while i am at it i'll double check the purpose flags as well to make sure everything is in order.

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Darth's armies join up before attacking, sometimes from different angles. Very cool.

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I'm actually enjoying Darth's myself in my current KH campaign. All things being relative; i'm loving the way the AI is handling itself. Specifically in battle vs. a cavalry heavy army. It is really cool to actually see the enemy literally contract and expand let's say their missile cav to cover just about an entire flank and then they just start to pepper that entire flank before charging in to crumble it. Good stuff :2thumbsup:

Edit: Purpose flags all seem to be in order. Specifically the multi role flag that is apparantly the one responsible for AI's use of reinforcement armies. Tried several battles where the AI had reinforcements and did not experience "idle" AI reinforcement army on any occasion using Sinuhet AI.

i have had the idle reinforcements also with Sinhuit's
i am playing on large unit size, with no other mods. It doesnt happen everytime, i also am still dealing with the suicide AI Family members fairly often. They just charge straight into my thureuphoroi or whatever is on the flanks, they do this quite often before their army even arrives, i have to kinda run away just to avoid killing them before their army arrives. any help for this?

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Originally Posted by madmatg

i have had the idle reinforcements also with Sinhuit's
i am playing on large unit size, with no other mods. It doesnt happen everytime, i also am still dealing with the suicide AI Family members fairly often. They just charge straight into my thureuphoroi or whatever is on the flanks, they do this quite often before their army even arrives, i have to kinda run away just to avoid killing them before their army arrives. any help for this?

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Well here's the thing to keep in mind when one chooses to use either Darth's or Sinuhet's AI for EB no matter who has edited the file. Perhaps not as much with Darth's because he forces minimum and maximum width values in his formations that can override any mods edu parameters, ( presuming one is using a version where these values are not being omitted ) nevertheless this holds true for his formations to some extent as well. Both of these AI mods were tested and tweaked using different edu settings than EB's as they were obviously not made for EB. The edu and the Battle AI are intertwined; to what extent i don't believe there has been a consensus reached.....but as it's relative to Darth's and especially Sinuhet's AI edited for EB the thing to keep in mind is this....width and length of unit formation as defined by the edu and perhaps to a lesser extent the number of soldiers in the unit has a direct correlation with the optimal performance of either Darth's Formations ( to a lesser extent..i would say ) but especially Sinuhet's. I say to a lesser extent with Darth because he forces width values so unit cohesion stays on the moving template or sphere of control as the theory goes....Sinuhet doesn't force width values or at least not in the manner Darth does...So his formations for optimal performance require that the edu be tweaked to take his formations into account or what may happen from time to time is as you stated....idle reinforcements...or suicidal charges that make no sense because the template leaks sort of speak perhaps causing a unit or reinforcements to be idle or the sphere of control is lost as it's relative to formation cohesion and you get a beserky general charging right onto a wall of pikes. :wall:

I guess what i'm saying is for optimal performance of either Darth's or Sinuhet's AI the edu would have to be tweaked and i'd venture to say most EB players would not want something like that in the form of a mini-mod made by someone who wasn't on the team out of concern of perhaps unbalancing things a bit and perhaps rightfully so. I'm guessing most EB players would prefer the team itself handle something like that. Which BTW i'm not suggesting they should do. As i understand it they have their own plans in this area.

ah, well, sadness...i'll just have to deal with some random easy AI's til the next release

thanks for the info

Actually i have to extend my apologies to an earlier poster in this thread who mentioned he encountered an idle reinforcing army from time to time using Sinuhet's AI as well. I went on to say i went back and tested it out several times and never encountered that problem. What i failed to remember was that i have an altered EDU file that i use with Sinuhet's formations so our end results in terms of effectiveness are gonna be a little different...:wall: My bad...

Darth Formations can generally be used "universally" by any mod because of his width forcing. Sinuhet's have to be more custom fitted sort of speak....at least in my opinion anyway.

thanks for this mod.

i just want to say that contrary to some of the opinions i have heard about darth mod, it DOES improve the way that the enemy deploys its troops. to me its not even about the formations- i dont care how the AI sets itself up at the start, its entirely pointless because the AI will not remain in that formation anyway. the reason why darth mod is better than the default formations is because the AI attacks more intelligently. It sticks its troops together properly, flanks, and just generally behaves in a much less stupid manner. thats not to say that its great, considering how poor the RTW AI is in general, theres only so much that can be improved, but this does GENUINELY make the AI behave in a much less stupid manner compared to the default EB formation settings and it was only after I installed this I started to get some decent battles out of the enemy.

I really think this component needs to be considered about this mod rather than whether the formations are realistic or not.

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Originally Posted by Dram

thanks for this mod.

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Your quite welcome friend.

I just wanted to mention real quick on the topic of some who've mentioned in this thread experiencing and "idle" reinforcing army while using Sinuhet's AI:

This had me really curious as i've never experienced this using Sinuhet's AI. Mind you, i'm not doubting this occured; it's just genuinely something i haven't seen yet for some weird reason. I've seen it playing Vanilla RTW, i also saw it while toying around with Darth's Formations while omitting his width forcing ( and changing other things as well ) while playing with huge units ( never seen it however in regular Darth with his width forcing left in place as well as leaving alone the offsets he set up ), and i've also seen it with the regular EB AI. I always just chalked it up to the mysteries of the hardcoded AI; except in the case when i was toying around with Darth's where i knew the changes i made were directly responsible. But again for some strange reason...never seen it happen using Sinuhet's. At first i thought maybe i wasn't seeing this happen because i was using an edited EDU file where i had changed the width and depth of the units to see how they responded using Sinuhet's AI. So i put back the original EB EDU; thinking maybe the culprit perhaps was some of the width and depth of the units and maybe leaking out of the "AI template" sort of speak and maybe that was causing the reinforcing army to stay "idle". Well...no this appears to be a case where i was seriously out-thinking myself. As i didn't experience it with the original EB EDU either.:dizzy2:

So i decided to ask around a little bit and see what other's who use Sinuhet's AI in different mods had to say....I was pretty much told the same thing more or less..This is apparantly something that happens at random no matter the AI. It can be limited to a good extent by getting the "offsets" in the formation right, however still occurs on occasion but if modded wrong it can really screw it up and the reinforcing army will be "idle" all the time. In case one does not want to just take my word on this and needs a second voice sort of speak...I"ll qoute here on this thread and i hope he won't mind; Aradan one of the developers of the excellent mod FATW:The New Shadow. Qouted from The Complete EDU-Discussion thread in the modding question forum here at the org; where i asked him if any FATW players reported instances of an idle reinforcing army using Sinuhet's AI.

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Originally posted by Aradan

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I don't think any have, but I have seen it happening some times. But i have seen it hapenning with vanilla and Darth too. I have restricted it a bit by changing some offsets, but I don't think there's a way to solve it completely, due to the way the formations are coded - and the lack of a descrimination between normal and reinforcing armies.

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So there it is....it would seem...The mysteries and aggravating instances of the hard-coded AI prevail once again.:wall:

Wow, great job Lysander. Y'see, EB not only has the best mod team, it also has the best mini-modder community. With mods like this, the AI balancing mod by redmeth and Mlp071, and all the other great ones, it just keeps things going in a better direction.

I'm actually just about to start up an EB campaign, something I haven't done since 0.8x was released all those many months ago, and all because of these great mods and reading campaign reports and AAR's. Ooo, I'm all primed for some EB lovin'.

Ok this is getting weird. I'll just be over here installing.....

Thanks once again Lysander, can't wait to play with the formations pumping on all cylinders.

Thank you for the kind words Wonderland. Stay tuned as i will be updating this download very soon to include a few changes that i feel improve the effectiveness of the formations as well as adding a few extra goodies..:yes:

do you think the darth formations would be compatible with the new version?

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Originally Posted by Dram

do you think the darth formations would be compatible with the new version?

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Sure, but EB also worked on their own formations (although they are still not as extensive as Darth's or Sinuhet's), so please give them a try before you replace them.

Thank you, Ludens :bow:

The formations The_Mark made to a good job IMO you get flanked a lot and they arrange and behave very well, don't just compare the size of the files try them out first.

There is also another things - descr_formations_ai.txt is close related on export_descr_units.txt so while using Darth's, Sinuhet's and The_Mark's (EB) formations on mod X you may find Darth' and Sinuhet's a bit better, for EB those 3 are more or less comparable imo.

Edited 1st post in this thread. Download has been updated to accommodate a few changes.

---Changes to Sinuhet file.
Added the engage_at_will tag to all missile units in attack formation. ( infantry & cavalry ) . So now when the formation toggles in battle… It’ll look like this for missile units….

--Defend:
default_melee_state fire_at_will_and_defend_and_skirmish

--Attack/Defend: ( Approaching Formation)
default_melee_state fire_at_will_and_skirmish

Now the formation toggles for Attack..
default_melee_state fire_at_will_and_engage_at_will_and_skirmish.

I changed this because I believe this setting takes better advantage of a lot of the missile units in EB that double as let’s say pretty damn good light infantry and light cavalry. This tag was prevalent in an earlier version of Sinuhet Formations, i’ve just re-introduced it to this version. Made a few other various changes to this file as well.

--I have changed the movement modifiers for what I believe is a better feel for these formations.
-- Added Marcus Camillus Player Formations to the download.
-- New formation buttons for the user interface.

**Shameful Bump from 2nd page abyss**:bump:

I feel dumb asking this but is it possible for someone to explain exactly what these formation mods do?

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Originally Posted by Diamondj

I feel dumb asking this but is it possible for someone to explain exactly what these formation mods do?

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They simply provide alternatives to how the "AI" groups it's forces, moves with it's forces and subsequently attacks/defends with them.

mate, your a class act.

:bow:

Lysander13 can you please upload another mirror not on filefront because filefront doesn't work for me? (and if it possible, not from megaupload too...):hanged:

No problem.....Perhaps this one will work for you....
http://www.zshare.net/download/521764016cecd8/

I tried all AI mods and liked Sinuhet's AI most of all.
But there is a problem: elephants behave themself rather stupid.
Instead of crashing enemy orders they stay aside and throw missles. It seems that AI can't use them. Is there a way to solve this problem?

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Originally Posted by AlExal

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I tried all AI mods and liked Sinuhet's AI most of all.

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That makes 2 of us.:beam:

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But there is a problem: elephants behave themself rather stupid.
Instead of crashing enemy orders they stay aside and throw missles. It seems that AI can't use them. Is there a way to solve this problem?

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Well the AI in general is rather stupid no matter what formations are being used....but hell, stupid AI is a rather common theme in most computer games. More to the point, i take it you mean you've seen elephant units discharge all their missiles and then do nothing but sit there? or do you just want them to barrel into battle lines and missiles be damned? Anyhow, I have seen both occur as i'm sure most who have played RTW for any length of time...Not necessarily using Sinuhet Formations for EB ( not yet anyway..but i'm sure i will at some point )..i've seen it in Vanilla and other formation mods, not to mention other mods in general that say they have "optimized" settings to go along with their formation systems. So to answer question..**shrugs**
who knows?..your guess is as good as mine. For a more so to speak detailed answer...this has to do with the battlefield role flags as of course everything on the battlefield is as it's relative to formations but what's not absolutely clear to me sometimes it's how these flags interact with hardcoded AI routines. Sure i know there's a general idea of what these flags do...however it's tricky to discern when they toggle during the flow of battle so to speak.
Sorry...the AI is just dumb in general. I love playing RTW with great mods like EB....but it's never been because of the AI.

No no. I haven't said that AI is stupid. I've just said that AI can't use elephants. For exampe it knows how to use skurmish cav or archers. Right? It doesn't make archers charge melee. It uses them in a right way. Some people say that in vanilla AI general uses elephants in best way. And in most AI mods he doesn't know what to do with them.
Mod is nearley perfect, and I enjoy playing it because I like history of those times, atmospere it creates. I can't name all it's features)
But this thread is about AI. Right? So I post my questions about it there.

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Originally Posted by Lysander13

...or do you just want them to barrel into battle lines and missiles be damned?

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If you ask me - yes, "missiles be damned". Elephants tend to lose most shootouts anyway. Esp stupid if they try it vs velites and artillery.

I found that increased "stat_charge_distance" in EDU forces them to make at least one initial charge, but after disengaging they love to bunch aside and start playing Robin Hood yet again. AI = Artificial Idiot.

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Originally Posted by AlExal

No no. I haven't said that AI is stupid. I've just said that AI can't use elephants. For exampe it knows how to use skurmish cav or archers. Right? It doesn't make archers charge melee. It uses them in a right way. Some people say that in vanilla AI general uses elephants in best way. And in most AI mods he doesn't know what to do with them.
Mod is nearley perfect, and I enjoy playing it because I like history of those times, atmospere it creates. I can't name all it's features)
But this thread is about AI. Right? So I post my questions about it there.

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My pardons friend...I did not mean to come across rather gruff so to speak, if that's what you inferred. I assure you that was not my intent. I was bored at work and went on a rant apparantly but i understood perfectly what you were saying. By all means friend, feel free to discuss all things AI related in this thread.:2thumbsup: You make a good point on how the elephants were used in Vanilla and how it differs from their use in AI mods, for example like Darth's & Sinuhet's. In vanilla, if i recall correctly, elephants were pretty much grouped in with regular cavalry. Which was why they charged in and didn't bother too much with skirmishing and the same could be said with skirmishing type cavalry for that matter, if i recall correctly. I remember people complaining that skirmishers didn't bother to skirmish. Where as in AI mods, the formations have been a bit more specialized and elephants have been assigned to skirmisher blocks for the most part along with perhaps chariots, missile infantry, or perhaps other missile cavalry depending on the formation and the formation block. The aim being for them to discharge their missiles and in the case of elephants and let's say horse archers or other missile cavalry, to charge in when they had spent a good amount of their ammunition, instead of charging in from the outset. At the same time, in the case of Sinuhet's Formations, manipulate the default_melee_state flag within the formation to influence skirmisher block behaviour..i.e.skirmish..fire_at_will..
engage_at_will..etc..Depending on the purpose flag.

Well it's pretty much been my experience that this works out pretty well. However, if i had to name a culprit as to perhaps why on occasions the AI doesn't seem to know what to do with elephants. I would guess it's because of the unit classification of heavy cavalry for elephants. In AI mods, like i said they are placed in skirmisher blocks...in EB's AI ( by AI i'm referring to descr_formations_ai.txt, BTW ) they are placed in their own block within a given formation, as oppose to being part of a skirmisher block, if i recall correctly. However, in both, they are placed in those respective blocks under unit_type elephants. Where as in vanilla there is no such occurrence in the descr_formations_ai.txt file. They are simply labeled as cavalry or heavy cavalry and are placed in blocks within the formations as such. BTW, the same is true for heavy_chariots. Perhaps the unit_type elephants tag, as it's relative to the formation blocks, confuses the AI on how exactly to utilize this unit. Don't get me wrong it is a working tag/code of course, in the sense that it places the elephants in the respective blocks when called upon. I'm only saying it wasn't used in vanilla as elephants and chariots for that matter, were classified as cavalry, heavy cavalry, and in the case of chariots a few instances of missile cavalry. Just an observation.....

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Originally Posted by Lgk

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If you ask me - yes, "missiles be damned". Elephants tend to lose most shootouts anyway. Esp stupid if they try it vs velites and artillery.

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Right....Especially in EB where their not unstoppable M1 Abrams Tanks.

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I found that increased "stat_charge_distance" in EDU forces them to make at least one initial charge, but after disengaging they love to bunch aside and start playing Robin Hood yet again. AI = Artificial Idiot.

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I've toyed around alot with the stat_charge_distance stat in the EDU and to be honest, i'm not really sure it's worth the trouble. BTW Lgk, nice tip in the Steppe expansion thread.....:2thumbsup:

Thanks, everything is clear now.
So i can make elephants attack immidiately by putting them in one group with
ordinary cav?
It's only my opinion, but i still think that missle attack is secondary for them. They do extremly little damage with their bows and they can't stand agains group of peltasts or archers. They stand aside and allow to drive them crazy with the help of firing missles.
So do i have to edit descr_formations_ai?

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Originally Posted by AlExal

Thanks, everything is clear now.
So i can make elephants attack immidiately by putting them in one group with
ordinary cav?
It's only my opinion, but i still think that missle attack is secondary for them. They do extremly little damage with their bows and they can't stand agains group of peltasts or archers. They stand aside and allow to drive them crazy with the help of firing missles.
So do i have to edit descr_formations_ai?

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Right...to try out what your saying with Sinuhet's formations you would have to do a small alteration to the descr_formations_ai.txt file. I'm at work right now, so unfortunately I cannot give you an example of the code. But I assure you is very simple, if you would like to give it a try.
I'm not sure if your going to know what I'm talking about..but here goes...in the formations ai file..go to the skirmisher block of each formation and simply comment out all instances of unit_type elephants by using... ; of course. I can't think of any conflicts off hand at the moment but doing this should revert elephant units to be assigned to cavalry blocks as oppose to the skirmisher block..since in the EDU their classified as heavy cavalry. Test it out and see what you think..Let me know how it goes...I'll be curious to know what you think...

So first of all I've tried to fix Darth 2nd Version.
That's my first experience in modding so the result of my efforts is quite poor(
Nevertheless it seems that elephants started to act a bit more like cav, not like missile inf.
So I deleted elephants from any block with missile inf and put it with cav.
Could someone more expirienced in modding have a look at my work?
Or is there anywhere some kind of manual about modding AI?

Bravo on Darthmod for phalanx factions. I need to do more testing. But I noticed a dramatic difference playing Selukeia against Makedon in custom battles. The enemy kept its formation approaching me. The light spearmen did not try to run in front of its fellow phalanx and tried to attack my flanks.

My theory is that Sinhuet's seems to be better for player factions like Rome or maybe Aedui or Arverni. I never got massive RTW 1.0 spreading playing as them like I did as the Selukids. Darth's seems great with phalanxes. Finally hammer and anvil tactics.

thank you very much, I'll go and try this out in my new campaign!

And this is for you:

:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

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Originally Posted by AlExal

So first of all I've tried to fix Darth 2nd Version.
That's my first experience in modding so the result of my efforts is quite poor(
Nevertheless it seems that elephants started to act a bit more like cav, not like missile inf.
So I deleted elephants from any block with missile inf and put it with cav.
Could someone more expirienced in modding have a look at my work?
Or is there anywhere some kind of manual about modding AI?

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Fix??...What do you mean by fix?
I'm going to assume you mean that you attempted what i suggested to you in a previous post. You don't have to delete anything persay and you don't have to put them in any other block. As by commenting out this line they should revert back to being used in the formations as cavalry in the respective cavalry blocks. All you have to do is comment out the elephant line in the skirmisher block by using a semicolon ( ; )...( without the parenthesis ) at the beginning of each line with an instance of unit_type elephant in the skirmisher block of each formation. Note: I've never experimented with this, therefore i'm not sure of how it's going to look or play on the battlefield with these particular formations ; as i happen to like them right where they are, but in Vanilla they were not used in skirmish blocks per say, as the unit_type elephant wasn't used, if i recall correctly and by default would get assigned to cavalry blocks. I only made this suggestion to you, so you could test it and see if you happen to like it better. If your still having a problem doing this...I'll give you an example of the code later on, if you'd still like to do it yourself. ( I'm using a blackberry right now and it's a pain just to type this..:dizzy2: )

@ Decimus Attius Arbiter & delablake....:bow:

@ AlExal
Here's an example of code for a skirmisher block in Sinuhet's Formations. Notice the unit_type elephants line.

Code:

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;; Skirmishing and front attack
                begin_block 0
                        max_units                        3                       
                        not_general
                        unit_type                        elephants                1.0
                        unit_type                        heavy_chariots                1.0
                        unit_type                        missile cavalry                0.9
                        unit_type                        skirmish infantry        0.6
                        unit_type                        chanting_screeching 0.5
                        default_melee_state        fire_at_will_and_defend_and_skirmish
                        block_formation                line
                        block_relative_pos        0 0.0 0.0
                        inter_unit_spacing        4.0
                        priority                        1.0
                end_block

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Here is the same block of code with the unit_type elephants line commented out.

Code:

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;; Skirmishing and front attack
                begin_block 0
                        max_units                        3                       
                        not_general
                        ;unit_type                        elephants                1.0
                        unit_type                        heavy_chariots                1.0
                        unit_type                        missile cavalry                0.9
                        unit_type                        skirmish infantry        0.6
                        unit_type                        chanting_screeching 0.5
                        default_melee_state        fire_at_will_and_defend_and_skirmish
                        block_formation                line
                        block_relative_pos        0 0.0 0.0
                        inter_unit_spacing        4.0
                        priority                        1.0
                end_block

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Notice the only difference in the second example is the use of the semicolon at the beginning of the unit_type elephants line. The compiler will now disregard this line and skip on to the next. Add this semicolon to every instance of unit_type elephants using your text editor ( such as notepad )
and all elephants should now revert back to being deployed like heavy cavalry, as they were in vanilla. Keep in mind these formations were designed and tested with the unit_types within the formation blocks as they currently stand. However, if you'd like to try this out for yourself...By all means friend...go right ahead. :2thumbsup:

just one question: is this save-game compatible?
and whats the difference between the two ai formation mods?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hooahguy14

just one question: is this save-game compatible?
and whats the difference between the two ai formation mods?

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Yes it is.
Their are some differences in the manner in which each formation mod is coded. However, as for performance differences, that's a matter of opinion. Some like Darth...Some like Sinuhet...I'd suggest to try them both and decide for yourself friend....:2thumbsup:

which is more stable?

Stability is not an issue in either case. They both work perfectly fine.

If the installer says I require a password but a choice to skip (i skipped all of them for each formation) does that mean I have done some thing wrong?

Maybe the proof that it is correct is the fact that my troops are better organized, there are no pre-battle speech, and my Roman front line starts with guard mode (fire at will too?) and the second line has fire at will on, and battles seem harder ( but it might not and just be the same thing).

BUT: If the installer says I require a password but a choice to skip (i skipped all of them for each formation) does that mean I have done some thing wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boyar Son

If the installer says I require a password but a choice to skip (i skipped all of them for each formation) does that mean I have done some thing wrong?

Maybe the proof that it is correct is the fact that my troops are better organized, there are no pre-battle speech, and my Roman front line starts with guard mode (fire at will too?) and the second line has fire at will on, and battles seem harder ( but it might not and just be the same thing).

BUT: If the installer says I require a password but a choice to skip (i skipped all of them for each formation) does that mean I have done some thing wrong?

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Installer says you require a password but your given a choice to skip them all, which you did for each formation?????
I'm afraid i have no idea what your talking about.
I did not put these files in an installer; they are contained within a zip file and they certainly do not require any password to access. To install, you unzip into your EB/data folder and click yes to overwrite when prompted to. These files do not affect anything other than formations and formation buttons for the UI.

well the last paragraph was just so you know what happened when I played with the formations supposedly "installed"...

I think its installed because in the armies my infantry are set in a historicaly plausible formation....

-BUT- I'm just not sure with the installer asking me for a _password_. And you didnt say anything about a _password_ so I assumed I did it wrong... and I didnt click "overwrite" anywhere....

Really did I do it or not? because there are changes, but it happened with installing it a different way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boyar Son

well the last paragraph was just so you know what happened when I played with the formations supposedly "installed"...

I think its installed because in the armies my infantry are set in a historicaly plausible formation....

-BUT- I'm just not sure with the installer asking me for a _password_. And you didnt say anything about a _password_ so I assumed I did it wrong... and I didnt click "overwrite" anywhere....

Really did I do it or not? because there are changes, but it happened with installing it a different way

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Do you happen to have Windows Vista as your OS? If so, i'm not yet familiar with the particulars of Vista as i'm holding on to my trusty XP OS for the time being. Perhaps asking you for a password is a security feature of sorts on your system. Other than that, i'm not really sure why your being asked for a password as these files are not password protected. BTW, as a rule, i don't think file sharing sites like filefront for example, allow password protected files to be uploaded on their sites.

Anyhow, to verify you have installed;
Go to....Your Rome Installation/EB/data folder and open the descr_formations_ai.txt file with a text editor. ( ie..notepad )
If at the top of the file you don't see anything referencing Darth Formations 16.2 or Sinuhet Battle Formations ( depending on which one you attempted to install ) then it did not install correctly and it's a safe bet the other files associated with this addon did not install correctly either.

I have XP.

Ya it asked me for a password each time for each install (even tho I only installed darth's).

I'll try what you said, but these formations in game look diffenerent and historically plausible, who knows?

Thanks for the support and giving me these formations!

this is a bump for olly to easily find this.....

Cheers fella

thanks lysander13, this is great!

:balloon2:

Just saying thanks for this! :beam:

So the AI is smarter with the Darth mod formations. Does this apply to 1.0?
And if im not mistaking somebody said that they tweaked things for battle formations in 1.0. Is the Darth mod formation still better than 1.0??

Or should I just leave it alone and keep playing 1.0

Yes, this mod works with 1.0, and I think that the A.I. performs a little better. The R:TW will never win any prizes, but with Darth's or Sinuhet's formations it's a bit more proactive.

Hello

These two mini mods have greatly improved the fun I have had but in the last couple of weeks I have been using Alexander instead of BI. How would these mods work with Alex?

Thanks

They work the same, pretty much. Unit size affects them more than anything.

Ave Lysander13, are those links bellow your sig updated? Or should I make some manual updates?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leão magno

Ave Lysander13, are those links bellow your sig updated? Or should I make some manual updates?

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Ave Leo,
The files are for the current version of EB, for that matter; they can be used with an older version ( but not any version before the Saba were added ) and the next version of EB as well, as the file structure in installing/unzipping the files remains the same. The only time this would need to be updated were if the factions were to change or of course i tweak these files, and/or added other changes to other files that have a direct relationship to these AI files. Which i may do, if i can ever find the free time to make these changes and test them thoroughly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by olly

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Quote:

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Hello

These two mini mods have greatly improved the fun I have had but in the last couple of weeks I have been using Alexander instead of BI. How would these mods work with Alex?

Thanks

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They should work just fine. Unless you happen to be playing a mod-foldered mini-mod with EB that uses it's own formations but i don't think there's any of those around here, last i checked anyway. Glad your enjoying them olly..:2thumbsup:

So was that reinforcements bug ever fixed or...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEver

So was that reinforcements bug ever fixed or...?

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Reinforcement battles in RTW have always been a rather buggy situation as I'm sure anyone who's played RTW or mod thereof can attest to. It's something I've experienced in vanilla, various mods with or without formation mods and even in EB with EB formations. One thing seems to be certain however at least to me if one happens to mess around with formations. It does seem if your off on the offsets granted in the attack/defend formation it can make a buggy situation worse. So the reverse should hold true or rather not totally eliminate the buggy reinforcing armies one may experience from time to time but perhaps limit how often such a thing a thing occurs. Really however I don't think it's truly been solved, at best limited in a manner of speaking.

i installed darth and marcus camillus formations.

none of the formations are there, but i am running my romani savegame.

so i'm assuming that the formations are not savegame compatible??????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexandros Maximus

i installed darth and marcus camillus formations.

none of the formations are there, but i am running my romani savegame.

so i'm assuming that the formations are not savegame compatible??????

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I fail to see why it wouldn't be save game compatible. There should be no issues with save game compatibility.

As for the formations not being there:
If they are not there. Then you have not installed properly. It's a zip file contained within the correct EB file structure so it will overwrite the necessary files if unzipped in the correct location. Which BTW is the main install directory of where you have EB installed not the data folder in case it needs to be mentioned. If you were not prompted to overwrite when you unzipped then you did not do it in the correct location. Also note, when you using MC's player formations and DV Formations. You must install DV's first, then MC's player formations. You can verify installation simply by opening your descr_formations.txt file ( in the EB Data folder ) with a text editor ( ie..notepad ) for MC's player formations, scroll down a bit and look for a reference saying " Marcus Camillus' Republican Roman Legion Formation ". Do the same for DV's formations, however this time your opening up the descr_formations_ai.txt file and right along the top of the file it should say Darth_Dark_Formations 16.2. The above verification assumes you've installed both of these in the right order and that their installed in the correct location.

had to do it different (unpack, cut/paste, instead of directly unpacking) because of vista's security shit.

running EB now to see if it worked.

Has 1.1 improved formations over 1.0?

If not, is this compatible with 1.1? :P
By comparing the files it would look so. Do you confirm?
I love this mod, it actually makes the game more challenging and interesting!

Formation files are pretty independent from the rest of the game, so they are almost certainly compatible. I cannot answer your other question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SunShadow

Has 1.1 improved formations over 1.0?

If not, is this compatible with 1.1? :P
By comparing the files it would look so. Do you confirm?
I love this mod, it actually makes the game more challenging and interesting!

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1) EB's 1.1 formations are the same as 1.0.
2) Yes this is compatible with 1.1. Even the archived files can be used if one would happen to want to switch back. Ludens was quite correct. Formations for the most part are very independent and can be used from version to version.
3) Confirmed.
4) :bow: ....Glad your enjoying it. I hope to improve on the relationship between certain EB files and these formation mods very soon for what will hopefully turn out to be a more enjoyable result as it's relative to using these formation mods. Particularly for Sinuhet's Formations. For example i was actually extremely happy to see mass being raised for cavalry. :2thumbsup:
Anyhow, all i need is actual recreational time to be able to do this....:wall:

sorry have a quick question. Yesterday i installed Darth and Marcus' player formations. I decided to try them out in my roman save game and the formation worked beautifully. However with some of my army's the formations for republic and imperial formations are in red and will not let me use those formations. Am i missing needed units? Do i have to have the specific amount of each unit as he mentions in his readme?

Thanks for this mod the battles have been a very pleasent change! :2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STuNTz2023

Yesterday i installed Darth and Marcus' player formations. I decided to try them out in my roman save game and the formation worked beautifully. However with some of my army's the formations for republic and imperial formations are in red and will not let me use those formations. Am i missing needed units? Do i have to have the specific amount of each unit as he mentions in his readme?

Thanks for this mod the battles have been a very pleasent change! :2thumbsup:

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Yes.
Just follow the unit roster layout that's spelled out in the readme for very sharp looking Republic and Imperial formations and you should have no trouble accesing the formations once you've grouped all your units together. Glad you find the formations to your liking. :2thumbsup:

I am now a highly satisfied customer..finally! an AI that makes sense!!

:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: for all involved!!

what's the diference between sinhuet's and darth's formations?:sweatdrop:

I have a question why everytime I attack the enemy army refuses to engage?? I mean its like if they had some sort of "skirmish mode" on , I get close and then they start running back ...the whole army!!

Im using darth's 2nd version since I cant handle huge (playing w large) and also marcus camillus , I'm using alx.exe if that matters...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ||Lz3||

I have a question why everytime I attack the enemy army refuses to engage?? I mean its like if they had some sort of "skirmish mode" on , I get close and then they start running back ...the whole army!!

Im using darth's 2nd version since I cant handle huge (playing w large) and also marcus camillus , I'm using alx.exe if that matters...

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how badly do you outnumber them?
that's usually the reason for the retreats..

I dont outnumber them by much...but...well that could be it , that's what I'm guessing

hally lysander.
i just wish to know what is the difference between these minimods; which is better and for which aim? and, moreover: is it EB 1.1 compatible?
thank you
belliger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by belliger

hally lysander.
i just wish to know what is the difference between these minimods; which is better and for which aim? and, moreover: is it EB 1.1 compatible?
thank you
belliger

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they are all obvously modded for EB 1.1, so the files here in this thread are good to go. as for the diff-I dunno, I just picked randomly:idea2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by belliger

hally lysander.
i just wish to know what is the difference between these minimods; which is better and for which aim? and, moreover: is it EB 1.1 compatible?
thank you
belliger

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well...

there are 2 darth versions...

original works best than 2nd version , but is only advisable to use it whit huge unit sizes , otherwise it wont work

darth 2nd version is the same as first but made compatible whit smaller unit sizes

marcus camillus is more specialized in roman formations,but also work whit every other faction (is an add on, you need to use first one of darth's or sinhuet's mod)

and finally sinhuet...heheh I haven't used that one... is kinda like darth's 2nd , but I heard it had problems whit reinforcements

Quote:

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Originally Posted by belliger

hally lysander.
i just wish to know what is the difference between these minimods; which is better and for which aim? and, moreover: is it EB 1.1 compatible?
thank you
belliger

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Ave belliger,

The difference between the AI Formation Mods lies in some of the coding and theory's reached thru empirical methods of testing. Which I won't bore you with. There is a distinct difference between the 2 versions of the DV Formations and that is one of them has been put forth with DV's width forcing omitted. If using DV Formations if that is your preference, I would recommend using the 1st version, IIRC. This version is original DV Formations with width forcing in place solely modded for compatibility with EB. I only included a 2nd version for those who do not like to or cannot play with unit size set on huge. Reason being is that with width forcing in place when playing on smaller unit sizes; it has the visual effect of the thinning of battle lines which some may not like since the formation set will override any EDU parameters.. However if this is something you don't mind you can certainly play with this version and as a matter of fact I would encourage the use of this version if one chooses to play with DV Formations. For those who choose to use the 2nd version with the width forcing omitted, keep in mind the formation sets were designed, coded and tested with this width forcing in mind. MC Player formations can obviously be used with either AI Formation Mod as it is of course for use by the player only.

As for which Formation Mod is better?
That's a matter of preference I suppose. I prefer both to standard stock AI. Between those 2, I personally prefer Sinuhet's Formations as I tend to prefer the behavior of the Battle AI ( All things being relative of course ) with these formations. However for a better result with Sinuhet Formations there are a few other files that could use tweaking so to speak. I did it for my own personal use with 1.0 and really liked the results. Unfortunately I have not gotten around to doing it for 1.1 as I'm probably the only EB fan who has yet to play a campaign in 1.1 and admittedly have not checked to see the differences between the files that's relative to AI Formations behavior in 1.0/1.1 and whether they have had a positive or negative result. For an example of what I'm talking about, play a battle in S.P.Q.R. ...or... RTR TIC both of which use Sinuhet Formations last I checked and you'll see what I mean. As a matter of fact for RTR TIC it was an EB Beta-Tester (mcantu) who did the tweaking of the other files I'm referring to and he did a really great job. However, they are compatible with 1.1 as several have already mentioned. Hope you find one of them to your liking.

Vale,
L13