Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines thread (Possible spoilers inside)

So I managed to find a budget copy of the game on teh intarwebs, and have been (trying) to play it the past day or so.

Wow, no wonder Troika went under. This game is rough, and I mean really rough around the edges. Controls/interface are pretty buggy, the in-game interface is extremely rough and not very well done, (reminds me of the god forsaken Deus Ex: Invisible War on PC), and the graphics look decidedly early 2000-ish.

Before I installed it, I was aware of the two unofficial patches, the one which is "pure" and just fixes bugs and restores a little bit of relevant content, and the other "full" which fixes bugs, restores much more content, and balances some issues. I elected to go with the pure patch which is at version 4.04AT, which is installed post official 1.2.

Still, this game isn't holding my attention that well at all. I hate the half-baked ported-from-the-console noobish interface, can't seem to get over how aged and blocky the game looks, and the combat is pretty wonky. My machine can more than handle the hardware reqs, so it's not slow. The story seems... ok I guess, haven't managed to get that far into it.

Any pointers or tips ya'll can help a guy out with? I really, really want to like this game, but so far it's not turning out to be nearly as wonderful as it's been made out to be, even post-fan patches.

:embarassed:

Well for a start it was rushed, so the mechanichs probably isn't the strongest part. What I think you should concentrait on is the story which is, in my opinion, wonderful.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but how far have you come yet into the story?

Not very far at all, about 30-45 min worth of play. Did the tutorial bit with Jack who was hilarious, and got dropped into the appt. Wandered around for a bit before I had to head off to bed.

Most of my trouble was spent getting the @%#% game to work without crashing on me.

Just remember, when you are sent to investigate the old haunted hotel... Do youself a favour and play it a night, with the lights off and the sound up...

That is a treat... :2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whacker

Not very far at all, about 30-45 min worth of play. Did the tutorial bit with Jack who was hilarious, and got dropped into the appt. Wandered around for a bit before I had to head off to bed.

Most of my trouble was spent getting the @%#% game to work without crashing on me.

---

Sounds like you're having a lot more trouble running it than I did; there was only one point at which the game crashed on me, the rest of the time it ran smoothly, a number of obvious glitches notwithstanding.

I can see where you're coming from though. If you don't enjoy the story, the badly balanced and clearly rushed game can easily put you off. I loved the characters, atmosphere and story, but particularly towards the last third of the game my character, all tooled up for talking his way out of things, found himself facing huge amounts of enemies and some right powerful ones that couldn't be handled. The last third is so combat heavy that I had to cheap my way through it using a highly unbalanced stealth approach and cheats to beat one of the bosses.

An extremely flawed game, but I enjoyed the first two-thirds and the finale immensely.

I never even messed with the fan patches- mine ran well enough with the retail patch, although I may have been lucky from what I head from others. I got very occasional CTDs, but no game breakers. The graphics still look decent if you ramp up AA, ect- you have to remember the game is a few years old though (pre HL2).

Personally, I loved the storyline- played thru it several times with different characters. If it's not your thing, I don't know that I can help ya there. :wink:

Edit: Just an interesting bit of trivia- the guy that voices Jack in game, is the same person who voiced Bender in Futurama. :2thumbsup:

Did the patches manage to fix the framerate issues of the first part of the zombie-infested warehouse yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whacker

Any pointers or tips ya'll can help a guy out with? I really, really want to like this game, but so far it's not turning out to be nearly as wonderful as it's been made out to be, even post-fan patches.

---

Umm, I fear all I can say is that it is absolutely wonderful. How you can enjoy the tutorial and not find the game to your taste is beyond me - the dialogue in the tutorial is better than that in the entire game of 90% of other CRPGs - but perhaps it is just not for you? However, bear in mind you have done effectively nothing of the main game - it is quite long and has lots of meat to it.

I am sorry you are having all kinds of technical issues - I don't remember many. It would occasionally crash in combat (answer: save often, of course). And I did have to do something whacky with the console to get through a door towards the end of the game. But otherwise it was unproblematic. It looked absolutely gorgeous - the faces were so expressive and the setting utterly immersive. But we all have different bars for suspension of disbelief, I guess. I would not install any fan patches that change the content. It is worth a couple of play throughs without modding.

In terms of the gameplay, what I would say is role-play it. Act in character - be good, evil, kind, a jerk, whatever. About the best thing about the game, in my opinion, is the dialogue, voice-acting and characters - enjoying interacting with them and don't worry too much about game mechanics. Talk to everybody and try to find out as much information about everything as you can. It is very non-linear with lots of optional sidequests you will miss if you don't talk to people.

Don't read any spoilers or walkthroughs. The quests are really inventive and far from the usual fedex stuff (actually, on reflection a lot are fedex but they are wrapped up in wonderfully creative subplots). Don't worry too much about optimising your capabilities - it is not really a tactical kind of game. There is quite a lot of depth and freedom in the character development, but don't worry about "what's the best weapon/power etc". At least not first time through. Just enjoy the story and act like you are a newly infected vampire.

I was amazed the first time I played it. I really did not want to like the game at all. I am more used to play paladins in the sunny Forgotten Realms than a vampire in a dark modern setting and the idea of feeding revolted me. I was lurking down in the sewers, hunting rats in a fog of self-loathing. But gradually, the game just sucks you in. There is one scene in the mid-game where a friend from your previous life sees you and my reaction was just like my character's was supposed to be: run! No way did I want my new found vampire life disturbed by my old human life. I ended up flinging my legs around foes and sucking them dry with abandon. I don't think any other RPG has immersed me to that extent, except System Shock 2.

A few pointers (contradicting what I have just said):

Having said don't worry about optimising combat, do be aware you will have to fight. The first area is quite combat light, but it rachets up until the end is pretty insane. (The quality of the game also falls as it gets more combat heavy - the first area is my favorite). Don't expect to be able to do a Fallout and talk your way out of most situations. Melee is generally more powerful than shooting, although towards the end the balance swings back. Stealth is extremely potent (with obfuscation) due to the "quick kill" mechanic.

Having said avoid walkthroughs, if you get stuck, gamebanshee has a fantastic one with one page per quest.

Having said don't optimise your character, here's a minor tip on character creation: I think the points you start with are sort of "non-weighted". So if you put three points in a skill, it goes up three pips. But when the game starts, everything is points weighted - so pips get more expensive in XP as you get more of them. Hence, it makes sense to put all your pips into one valuable skill on start up - it will save you XP in the long run. Also, with the patch, you can enable backgrounds for your character that allow you to vary which groups of skills start off with more points in them (so if you like the look of a particular kind of vampire, you don't necessarily have to start off with their initial point distribution). Finally, the one spoiler-ish thing I do find essential is the list of what kinds of books you get in the game. Reading a book can give you a point in a skill, but they often level specific (for example, the starter area has a shop with a couple of books that can two skills up to about one or two pips, but won't help you if you are level 3 in the skill). It would be waste to put points in those two skills before reading the books.

Lastly, don't play a Malkavian first time through. Do play one though the second time through. Malkavians, only, get really unique dialogue throughout the game and it is absolutely fantastic. But it is rather metaphorical, so you will enjoy it more if you know what the equivalent normal speech would be. Also, unlike some of the Bioware games, I don't think there are any romance-plots that require your character to be a certain sex, so since you are going to be staring at your character's butt for hours, feel free to pick a character of the sex you would prefer. Once you have played a female Malk, you may never want to play any other kind of vampire.

I had no problems whatsoever with Vampire: Bloodlines after installing the official patches only. Quicksave often, as in any game. Vampire is IMO the best RPG ever made, together with Deus Ex, and they will probably remain the best for many years to come. Only downside of Vampire is that the end has a bit too much fighting and too little of the greatness, atmosphere and story parts of the first two thirds, but the ending parts are still quite good.

Except you can't join the Sabbat. :wall:

There you are econ, was hoping you'd jump in here.

And thanks everyone else for your input so far. The game is growing on me the more I spend time in it. I just had a girl tell me she just remembered she's gay when I started to hit on her. :shame: Could really use my eyebrow ring of +12 to Sexy Beast about now.

The game isn't crashing on me anymore, but I did run into one potentially game-stopping bug. During the tutorial where I had to pass the guy by throwing something into the corner, I couldn't pick up the tins. I managed to put him in a trance and sneak-kill him (which is badass), and made it ok, but that was not good. The game looks a bit better when you force 8xAA and 16xAF, but it still appears a bit boxy for it's time. And the interface is miserable, no way around it.

Also, who'd have realized that in Santa Monica, all the guys look like pro beach volleyball players, and the gals are all VERY top heavy, if ya get my drift. /shrug No complaints here!

Edit - LMAO @ the dancing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by econ21

Once you have played a female Malk, you may never want to play any other kind of vampire.

---

:2thumbsup:

V:BL was a good game that could have been great.
That said, I love the dialogue options and the characters in the game.
Jack is a great character as is Venus, the only woman you can't say no too.
Naturally it's because you keep looking at her cleavage and get distracted but hey :2thumbsup: .
And let's not forget the nosferatus.

Oh and I second the notion that you need to play the hotel level in a very dark room.
Easily the best level in the game.
Second best is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

where you encounter the werewolf in the forest area. Man that was a rush.
I tried fighting him at first only to get ripped to shreds.
But having him chase you around for 2 minutes is alot more fun not to mention scary.

The haunted hotel quest is probably the best quest of all times, IMHO, and I had my fair share of rpg's.

You can say that a game is unpolished but it is still great. Too bad that they didn't put little more effort in it. It could have been on par with BG and PS:T.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TB666

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

where you encounter the werewolf in the forest area. Man that was a rush.
I tried fighting him at first only to get ripped to shreds.
But having him chase you around for 2 minutes is alot more fun not to mention scary.

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can kill the werewolf- you have to lure him to the telescope opening and close it on him. :yes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xiahou

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can kill the werewolf- you have to lure him to the telescope opening and close it on him. :yes:

---

You also get extra XP this way. :happyg:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xiahou

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can kill the werewolf- you have to lure him to the telescope opening and close it on him. :yes:

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Interesting. I did not know that.
Maybe I will try it one day

OK, so I'm now a good 3-4 hours into the game, made it Downtown and have made some good progress there.

I like this game now. Is it Deus Ex good? No, not at all. Is it good? Yes, it's good. Not great, but good. It's just not polished enough, and even with the fan patch (I don't even want to imagine this without it), there are still enough problems with the game code that aren't and won't be fixed that it gets on my nerves. The interface sucks, no way around it, it feels like a lame console port, and bad interfaces are one of my biggest pet peeves.

The story is pretty linear, but I do agree with econ that it's definitely above-average and well executed. There's a good depth of feel to the game in terms of plot and story, which is what I'd expect given the previous game which I also enjoyed, post 1.1 patch.

Probably give it about an 8 out of 10, and barring any huge problems with the game and bugs down the road, I'll stick with it and finish it. It's a shame Troika went under, with a bit more elbow grease this probably would have been Deus Ex/Fallout quality legendary and taken it's place in the hallowed pantheon of cRPGs, but personally I just can't put it up there for the above reasons.

Thanks for everyone's input and support so far.

:balloon2:

Yeah the game is pretty linear.
There are different paths you can take but it seem to lead you to the same thing.
But finish your game to the end and then try Malkavians(female if you want).
It's worth going through the same thing again for the dialogue.
Also nosfertu can also give you a change of gameplay since you can't interact with people like the others can and you have to stay in the shadows and stealth unless you wanna break the masquerade.
Certain quests that you simply get from talking to the quest giver doesn't work sometimes and you need to work around it so to speak.

The main plot is linear and you approach each of the four areas in a given order. However, there are a lot of sidequests that are optional and when you progress on the main story quests is up to you (hint: to max your cash, visit Venus between each main story quest). So I think it gives you a decent illusion of freedom. Unlike, say, Bioshock or even Deus Ex, where you are pretty much on the rails.

IIRC, there's 5 different endings that you can get- although some of them are similar. I remember the first time I played thru, things ended very badly for me. :shame:

I hope you won't mind if I ask which one you picked Xiahou.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gurkhal

I hope you won't mind if I ask which one you picked Xiahou.

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I sided with the prince. Things did not work out for us. :laugh4:

I got the

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The ending where Jack had stolen the corpse and put explosives instead and the prince go BOOM.
Kinda cool ending

Well, yeah, that's always part of the ending.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The difference is if the crate is opened, and by whom. I sided with the Anarchs, left the tower and the Prince opened it. All possibles are Keui-Jin (LaCroix dies, you're betrayed by Ming and tied to the crate and sink), Camarilla (crate ends up in warehouse), Anarchs (either you or the Prince can open it), Prince (both die when Prince opens the crate) or on your own (either the Prince dies or you open the crate and die too).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Anarchs and Camarilla are really the only "good" endings in the game, where you survive.

Another spoiler on the ending (Whacker don't read any of the spoilers!)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe there is a "loner" ending, where you reject all factions. It is identical to the Anarchs ending, except that you brush off Nines and his crew after the tower blows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by econ21

Another spoiler on the ending (Whacker don't read any of the spoilers!)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe there is a "loner" ending, where you reject all factions. It is identical to the Anarchs ending, except that you brush off Nines and his crew after the tower blows.

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My favorite ending, I thought they were all bloody hypocrites so I picked this in my first play-through :yes: (Keu-Jin fascists, Anarchs commies, Camarilla imperialists). :shrug: However, the first time I couldn't resist opening the sarcophagus out of pure curiosity over finding out what was in that damned box... I reloaded the game before that and immediately watched the alternate version where I just left the key to the Prince)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rodion Romanovich

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My favorite ending, I thought they were all bloody hypocrites so I picked this in my first play-through :yes: (Keu-Jin fascists, Anarchs commies, Camarilla imperialists). :shrug: However, the first time I couldn't resist opening the sarcophagus out of pure curiosity over finding out what was in that damned box... I reloaded the game before that and immediately watched the alternate version where I just left the key to the Prince)

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It was fairly obvious the you were going to see the inside anyway with that ending. It kinds of hint on that when you don't have the option to leave and keep the key in the end (we can guess that it's one of those cases were your player char knows more than you do). Besides, the game practically screams "don't open it".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ironside

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It was fairly obvious the you were going to see the inside anyway with that ending. It kinds of hint on that when you don't have the option to leave and keep the key in the end (we can guess that it's one of those cases were your player char knows more than you do). Besides, the game practically screams "don't open it".

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, but the curiosity was too big to resist ~:)

Finished second time as Camarilla revolt ending, which was pretty good as well, but there was very little material to be sure the Tzimisce could be trusted. Felt like a chance-taking, but after sweeping so many floors of enemies so easily, I felt it didn't matter if I took a chance like that ~:)

Needless to say, I probably had a funny-looking face after the first time I opened the box :laugh4:

AUG!!!! You want to talk about beyond obnoxious. My game was corrupted! I couldn't pick up anything with the little hand symbo, or throw stuff around. No idea why, reloading/etc, nothing would work. I had to start over. I was right at the part where you have the move the wooden beam aside from the doors at the very end of the temple. Bah.

One of my favorite parts of Vampires is the fortune teller on the beach.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pay her and she tells you exactly how the game will play out. "You don't want to be there when Jack comes out of his box. What did I say? I don't know what I say."

Her line about it not mattering how the game turns out so long as you have paid for it was a hoot too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whacker

AUG!!!! You want to talk about beyond obnoxious. My game was corrupted! I couldn't pick up anything with the little hand symbo, or throw stuff around. No idea why, reloading/etc, nothing would work. I had to start over. I was right at the part where you have the move the wooden beam aside from the doors at the very end of the temple. Bah.

---

You have hit the part where I had to do some funky stuff with the console.

These are the notes I have scribbled on a piece of paper inside my CD case:

To activate console with UK version, need to set upo properties to add "-console" to the exe line.

In the console type "noclip 1".

IIRC, what this does is allow you to walk through doors, walls etc. Basically, I could not open the doors, so I used the console to walk through them.

You will get more information if you need it at one of the Vampire Forums.

I've bookmarked this one:

http://www.forumplanet.com/planetvampire/index.asp

Beware, it's full of spoilers though. (And some very interesting plot discussions once you have completed the game.)

The temple door works (needs reloading sometimes though), but they're very buggy and can demand a lot of attemts (and luck) to get open. that said, I don't know if it works with that bug of yours, but the temple beam isn't an object that you can lift, only push (and that should work automatically).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by econ21

One of my favorite parts of Vampires is the fortune teller on the beach.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pay her and she tells you exactly how the game will play out. "You don't want to be there when Jack comes out of his box. What did I say? I don't know what I say."

Her line about it not mattering how the game turns out so long as you have paid for it was a hoot too.

---

Yeah the fortune teller is quite good, makes no sence the first time, but makes a lot of sence the second time through. I'm still wondering why she hangs out with thin-bloods, I mean she's obviously a Malkavian. :book:

Hm yeah temple doors gave me trouble too. I just did everything mentioned in all tutorials, and eventually it worked. Might want to try a different save from slightly before as well...

Well this really stinks. I think I'm almost to the very end, so I'm going to stick with this game. I think that it was really, really corrupted. None of the pick-up (hand icon) stuff worked at all, and I think that I missed out on the vast majority of persuade/intimidate options that I was going for, because I went and found a good non-spoiler faq that outlined what a few of them were early on in the game and the requirements, and there were quite a few that should have been available to me given my char setup.

Here's where I stand, and some thoughts on the game and plot.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm going to kill Ming, so far am 3 levels deep into the temple. I chose to side with the Anarchs, because they seem to be closest to what I am trying to roll play with my char. I believe in order, but I think the overall Camarilla, Lacroix or no, is a bit too corrupt. The Anarchs are a bit overboard but they're not a bad crew. I didn't get the option to go with the chinese vamps, so I don't know if that's even possible, but I bet it is because Ming approached me in Downtown towards the end and from her dialogue and the options I had to respond, I think she was trying to "recruit" me. Didn'd take the bait though. I do NOT plan on opening the sarcophagus, even though it'd be cool to see what's inside. I don't know what else happens after I kill Ming, but my guess is I have to go after Lacroix too, given the conversation with Nines.

econ, I haven't clicked any of the spoilers so far, but I saw you commented on Rosa on the beach, the fortune teller. Of what she said, the things I recall are 1. she told me I could trust "guy on the sofa" and "lone wolf", whom I interpreted as Mercurio and Beckett. She also said "Don't open it!" or something like that, whick Beckett also advised, hence why I decided not to go that route.

Wow. I finished the game.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Uhm.. Did I survive? I dropped the key then walked out, and Lacroix picked it up and opened the casket. Jack's.. "surprise" was in there. It doesn't mention if I survived or not.

Also, who's the cabbie? He walks up at the end and looks all.. shimmering.

Edit - Cool. People seem to think the cabbie is Caine himself. Makes sense I guess.

Whacker, I think you can read our spoiler quotes now! :2thumbsup:

On the ending:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you dropped the key, then you survived. If you went for the anarchs ending, wasn't there a scene where they greeted you afterwards? I may be confused, it has been a while.

BTW, I think Cain was also one of the Deb of Night's radiophone in callers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by econ21

Whacker, I think you can read our spoiler quotes now! :2thumbsup:

On the ending:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you dropped the key, then you survived. If you went for the anarchs ending, wasn't there a scene where they greeted you afterwards? I may be confused, it has been a while.

BTW, I think Cain was also one of the Deb of Night's radiophone in callers.

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Huh? Andrei, that tzimisce is probably one of the callers, but that the cabby had done a call is news to me.

Yeah, you did survive Whacker, that one is almost identical to the loner ending, were you're clearly alive at the end.

As for the cabby being Caine, he's intended to be the pulp fiction suitcase for this game (from a dev interview), it's hinted that he is, but never said. I've seen an occationally mention of Jack traveling with a Malkavian that thinks he's Caine in those "Is the cabby Caine?" threads, but on the other hand it seems be oddly unknown (aka either made up, or the perfect cover to implement that part gamevise without breaking the lore).

Gorgeous game. The mods that come out really did do justice.

I'm also genuinely scared quite a few times playing this thing in the dark.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ohmigod that haunted house was impressive. And the Tzimisce's monsters were gruesome. Everywhere! They're everywhere! :help:

The Werewolf battle is probably the highlight. I was drinking elder blood a pack half a minute to make it to the observatory.

Here's hoping KOTOR2 would be improved in a similar way. Talk about unfinished that one. :no: They kept adding companion after companion and none of them have any story to tell.

And the big team involved (Gizka, I think?) should've released a public beta for their mod long ago. I mean, come on. EB does it, right? Right!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Here's hoping KOTOR2 would be improved in a similar way. Talk about unfinished that one. :no: They kept adding companion after companion and none of them have any story to tell.

---

I think that's unfair - the companions in Kotor2 have more backstory and personality than 90% of the companions in other CRPGs.

To get the full background with some, you do need to have high influence with them - which does take a bit of work.

What I got from the characters:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kreia - I am sure I don't need to argue this one. Perhaps the most unconventional but successfully done companion in a CRPG.

Atton - Jedi killer background has a big reveal in Na Shadaar; I loved the "Why does Atton play pazaak in his mind?" stuff.

Bao Dur - fills in a lot of background about your character and Malachor V, adding a lot of depth and mood to your character.

Visas - tells you a lot about "No face", I mean Darth Nihilus. If you do it right, you can squeeze everything out of a first, exhausting conversation but still a very nice NPC.

Handmaiden - tells you a lot about Atris and the "do not mate with the Echani/betrayal!" business from Kreia was fun.

Mandalore - has the whole "last of the Mandalorians" vibe going and was Canderous in kotor1, how cool is that?

Go-To - unfinished yes, but the whole "robot running the Exchange running the Republic" idea is rather interesting concept.

HK - never got the influence, but has some depth.

T3-M4 - ok, I'll give you that one.

Mira - also underdeveloped, but the Hanharr vendetta was fun, especially as you get to live it out in two parts of the plot.

You can't really compare the above with Bloodlines, as there are no recruitable NPCs in Bloodlines. But I think they hold up well with even the NPCs in Fallout 2 and Baldur's Gate 2, which are about the apotheosis of party based CRPGs.

BTW, I hated the "tell me your story, a piece at a time, after I level up" idea of KOTOR and NWN. It forgot the basic rule of drama - show, don't tell. If they had added incidents during the story that unveiled the backstories, it would have been so much better. KOTOR did this a little, but not enough.

I'd echo econ's sentiments, the characters in KOTOR2 did actually have a good deal of depth to them, the game did a less than stellar (but still good) job of presenting them and their backgrounds.

Bloodlines had some decent depth of character too, but the game still felt like a wounded beast. Much more background on that flesh eating vamp would have been fantastic, and also on the thin-bloods. I guess there wasn't nearly as much 'lore' in the game as what I would have wanted, personally.

Also, re: KOTOR2's unfinished state. Given what I saw with that game's development and input from my game dev friends, it would seem one can probably lay the blame for the unfinished status of it on both Lucasarts and Obsidian. LA most likely did quite a bit of pushing towards the end, and Obsidian was a brand new software house at the time (albiet with some good talent) who should not have been saddled with such a lofty development task given their inexperienced status. The status of the game today and how it was rather quickly "abandoned" is further proof that the game should have been given to a much more experienced dev team. Ironically this appears to be the same situation with RTW and M2TW, with CA .uk and CA .au respectively.

Warning: Rants to follow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by econ21

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kreia - I am sure I don't need to argue this one. Perhaps the most unconventional but successfully done companion in a CRPG.

Atton - Jedi killer background has a big reveal in Na Shadaar; I loved the "Why does Atton play pazaak in his mind?" stuff.

Bao Dur - fills in a lot of background about your character and Malachor V, adding a lot of depth and mood to your character.

Visas - tells you a lot about "No face", I mean Darth Nihilus. If you do it right, you can squeeze everything out of a first, exhausting conversation but still a very nice NPC.

Handmaiden - tells you a lot about Atris and the "do not mate with the Echani/betrayal!" business from Kreia was fun.

Mandalore - has the whole "last of the Mandalorians" vibe going and was Canderous in kotor1, how cool is that?

Go-To - unfinished yes, but the whole "robot running the Exchange running the Republic" idea is rather interesting concept.

HK - never got the influence, but has some depth.

T3-M4 - ok, I'll give you that one.

Mira - also underdeveloped, but the Hanharr vendetta was fun, especially as you get to live it out in two parts of the plot.

You can't really compare the above with Bloodlines, as there are no recruitable NPCs in Bloodlines. But I think they hold up well with even the NPCs in Fallout 2 and Baldur's Gate 2, which are about the apotheosis of party based CRPGs.

BTW, I hated the "tell me your story, a piece at a time, after I level up" idea of KOTOR and NWN. It forgot the basic rule of drama - show, don't tell. If they had added incidents during the story that unveiled the backstories, it would have been so much better. KOTOR did this a little, but not enough.

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kreia - I'll give you that one. I love her attitude. Was it jealousy? Was it manipulation? Was it genuine master's concern for her precious apprentice? She's the most developed of all the companions IMO.

The way to gain her influence is also interesting. I pissed her off quite a few times playing the Good Princess (I usually play a Good Prince type, but turns out female leads are often far more interesting...). Then I gained back her influence by some clever tricks she apparently liked.

Atton - That too. Some people say he's a "Han Solo clone" (yadda yadda) just with a rather...interesting...past. I don't find that distracting; besides it's cool to turn him into a Jedi himself!

But these two are met very early and represent I think most of the effort they put into the companions.

Bao-Dur - He's only there to fill in the blanks about your story, quite frankly. His problems are stated (he did some terrible stuff to Malachor V) but never really resolved. Just talked about it. Once. Then he had nothing else to say for the rest of the game. Literally!

Sad really. The old retainer-type character of his could have been so much more developed.

Visas - She just came, gave you information [I did like you, and got everything out of her in one conversation: I guess my high charisma characters are rather useful], then, like Bao-Dur, has nothing else to say for the rest of the game -- except for a brief period during the Darth Nihilus encounter.

Wasn't she supposed to be a romantic interest for a male main character anyway? Some quiet romantic interest that Miraluka girl. :wall:

Handmaiden - She's one of the more interesting NPCs IMO. I don't really have experience with Disciple so I can't say for sure that guy can compare.

Mandalore - It's cool to have good ol' Canderous back, but quite frankly he has much less to tell about himself this time around; his plans for a great Mandalorian recovery, why the hell is he wasting time with a jedi in Ebon Hawk when he has a people to rule over (I know he offered his help, but...), what's his war plans and how can I help him (like I said I would). Nothing.

He also suddenly became active during the Darth Nihilus arc and then lapse back to inactivity for the rest of the game.

It's like many of the other characters: one long conversation is sufficient to take everything out of them. That's not a good trait for a companion NPC.

G0-T0 - I don't like him. :smash: I wanted to blow up the bastard but apparently I can't. What the hell? He put a frickin' bounty on my head for Revan's sake! The Ebon Hawk can blow up for all I care! And that business with his betrayal in the end was never really finished.

HK-47 - He's very entertaining when he talks about his past (Mockery of Carth and Bastila anyone?) but that's all I can get out of him. Not nearly as awesome as his KOTOR 1 self. He just feels...evil...and that's it. :no:

No Droid Factory, no vicious mass slaughter, no plot value (like he has in Tatooine in the first game), no tinkering with him to upgrade his capabilities. Just there.

T3-M4 - For a droid I actually think he's pretty well developed. Not much to tell (beep dreet and dwooo aren't exactly interesting things to read about) but he's active plot-wise throughout the game.

Mira - For her role in the plot it feels as if she should've been an important character, but once again she doesn't have much to tell either.

I guess my problem with companions in KOTOR2 is that there simply are too many of them in a game where you can take only two with you at any time, and that for most they just appear, tell their story, and then lapse into inactivity. These are supposed to be my companions after all. They should bash heads, fight, complain, argue with my actions, give advice, get plot developments, and still have something to say after I played through the fourth planet. They don't. They just sit around waiting to be picked as if I'm choosing which Mandalorian blaster to bring.

Well, Kreia does, and Atton, to an extent. But that's just about it.

They feel...incomplete. They have their personalities, their potentials, some are clichés and some aren't so much; but these personalities rarely change, rarely show up, or add anything to the game's plots. They're just too blank. People in BG2, in Planescape; heck, in KOTOR; don't feel like that.

[/Rant] :laugh4:

.
So this game is fine, entertaining, at times scary, addictive and funny. I've been playing with the full unofficial patch and its designers seem to have done a good job. The interface becomes an annoyance once in a while, such as when your gun fires in the street because you clicked OK after assigning hotkeys, and you have to reload. But it's OK overall.

The humour is well done too. :yes:
.

It's fun at times, found the ending rather anticlimactic though and quite a few things are a bit buggy, like the physics, played a female Toreador in the second go and those physically calculated clothes like to get stuck in really weird positions, right through her body etc. :dizzy2:
That you can sneak right in front of most guard's eyes with a sneaking skill of 4 or so was also rather...interesting.
A good waste of time but I wasn't very impressed I must say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

I've been playing with the full unofficial patch

---

There's actually two unofficial patches. The "Unofficial Patch" and the "True Patch". The Unofficial Patch made by Wesp is more of mod than anything else. It changes around things and breaks some other things. The True Patch by Tessmage is a real patch in every sense of the word; it has nothing but bugfixes, and keeps the game the way Troika envisioned it.
I've played with both, and I'm not liking the changes of the Unofficial Patch (Blood Buff gives only +1 instead of maxing out your physical stats).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire...ficial_Patches

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

.

The humour is well done too. :yes:
.

---

I take it you've played as Malkavian? If not, then do it. Good laughter there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

That you can sneak right in front of most guard's eyes with a sneaking skill of 4 or so was also rather...interesting.

---

I suspect they're buggy in that they don't seem to see you when you're right under thier feet as they're looking forward and not down. :inquisitive:

.
I'm a male Toreador.
.

.
Completed the Santa Monica parkour along with the side quests! :jumping:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I was expecting more than a pitch black screen from getting laid with the Bitch Queen. :embarassed:

.

How does it compare to Redemption?

Redemption = Crappy Diablo reject.
Bloodlines = Awesome FPS with true Vampire character sheets and stats.

There is no comparison.

I played through as a ventrue and then a tremere.

First time around, I found it very hard as a ventrue since I messed up my character development and missed alot of xp from quests completed in a different way. As a result, some areas were really frustrating. I remember just spending hours trying to get through the Society of Leopold.

Second time, I found out how imbalanced tremeres are. Their special discipline simply rock. Blood strike does a ton of damage and returns blood. Purge just basically means everyone arounds you stops doing things for 5-6 seconds. Shield + armor meant you literally would not take damage from maybe 40% of the enemies and boil is just sick.

Was going to play as malkavian for the interesting stuff, but I got bored of the game by then from playing it through twice in 2 weeks.

Greatest parts of the game: Haunted Hotel and Grout's Mansion (the recordings were fantastic) Worst part: the warrens on the way to the nosferatu hideout. Hated that part so much.

Regarding the cabdriver,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

if you look through the soundfiles, you'll find a folder marked caine. If you listen to the files, you'll see that those are the cabdriver files.

All this talk has made me dust off the game and play it again.

I installed the "True Patch", i.e. the one that fixes bugs and adds some dialogue but doesn't mess with gameplay.

It's been interesting, I'd forgotten how fun the game was, despite a few graphical and game play hiccups. I've noticed some of the additions, but they seem to integrate well.

I've also made an effort to kill less kine this time around. I actually made it through the Museum and Traffik missions without killing anyone, which I thought beforehand was impossible without obfuscate. The extra experience for doing so was a nice bonus. Though I really hate those security cameras.

I wish there were more CRPGs out there like this one. I guess I'll have to wait for Mass Effect for the PC to come out in a couple of months.

Diablo huh? Interesting.

.
PLEASE!

The spoiler tags are there for a purpose! :gah2:

Usage:

Code:

---

[spoil]In the end of the movie the good guy is killed[/spoil]

---

.

.
HELP PLEASE!!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So, have you guys ever come to duel with the Meng Xiao :daisy: as a Torreador? It's :daisy: impossible. She devours the flame thrower + blood buff like a sip of lemonade. Swallows all kinds of bullets like hazel nuts and if, by sheer luck, you manage to cut her a little bit with the Sabbat Katana she just becomes two to go dp on you. :help:

Even worse, when I decide swapping my integrity with the next level the console renders the game inaccessible; I.E. you enter the code, close the console and you have nothing but a frozen picture and a useless mouse pointer. :end:

Reaching down there cost me hours of gameplay and now I want to defeat the slimy :daisy: either way. Please help! :gah:

:help:
.

Mousse,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There are many ways to defeat her, you can shoot all your ammo into her first(flamethrower aimed right does quite a bit of damage I think) then slice her up, only slice her up or take so much ammo that you never have to get close. What helped me the most though, was, as I said in the chat yesterday, celerity and a few blood packs. With celerity she will be quite slow which gives you more time to hack her and her offspring into pieces.
Now if you don't have celerity, I suggest having fast reactions of your own. ~;)

Well, you can try running from one side of the room to the other while shooting at her from a distance, maybe you want to kill her offspring early as well because if you have two big things hacking away at you, doing lots of damage, you won't have any peaceful moments to hack at her with a katana, well, you would with celerity as they'd both be very slow...

To get out of the console without freezing the game, enter "chareditor" into the console, which takes you to your character screen. You can then close the character screen and go on playing. Apparently it helps to open the console from the menu as well.

One word: Presence. You'll be able to shrug off a LOT of damage with max Presence.

I hated that about the game. First half, fine - I created a very persuasive, stealthy Toreador. Then the second half... it's almost all combat, and earlier skills for which the first half offered room become all but useless. Some ridiculous fights, enemies who are almost completely immune to stealth, and no use for persuasion. Made my character useless towards the end, and I did end up cheating against Ming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

One word: Presence. You'll be able to shrug off a LOT of damage with max Presence.

---

While I agree, isn't that particular boss immune to presence? (and as presence is weakening the opponent and not strengthing you, it's pretty useless in those cases)

Husar's tips with celerity+auspex should do the trick. And use blood bags, it's an end-boss, they're supposed to be mean and you don't really gain anything on having plenty of bloodbags after finishing the game.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Auspex gives extra damage protection and ranged weapon bonus. It's one of the bosses I prefer ranged damage on, but remember to get the upgraded shotgun and/magnum on fully automatic/fan mode. You need to reload a lot, but the damage burst is worth it.

Depending on play it's not "the" endboss,so you might wanna keep some blood bags or buy some new ones after this fight. That boss is imo slightly easier though, so you shouldn't need much bloodbags there.

The final boss in theory is a lot easier - however, after fighting his normal form, his second form forced me to cheat again. For some reason, my framerate in that final sequence was abominable and entirely unplayable without cheats.

.
Celerity, blood buff, 10 blood bags + 2 elder vitae finished... no way.

Thanks for the cheat help Husar. I think I'm going to skip this one with god mode.
.

I had more problems with the Sheriff than Ming Xiao. But with celerity to the max (or almost) any fight is a piece of cake. The game was rushed, that's why a lot of parts weren't balanced properly, but it still is a truly great game. One of the best RPG's ever...

I hate Auspex. The Cost:Reward ratio you get when upgrading Auspex isn't worth upgrading it behind the first dot.
No boss is immune to Presence, but they can be resistant.

Even with a sword user, I ALWAYS carry a flamethrower with full compliment of ammo when taking on Ming Xiao and the Sheriff. The Sheriff is especially vulnerable, and I find his second stage fight to be very easy on any character. For Ming Xiao, however, you'll need Celerity, and plenty of it.

.
Unless I have a patience made of steel titanium and the geekiness at least 2X of the present level, I can't beat Ming Xiao without cheating. :no: Even with god-mode on it took like ten minutes to finish her off.

The Sheriff was a piece of cake with some celerity. But...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The overgrown bat type that fetches you afterwards, without a pause, required me to go god-mode again. It wouldn't pose a threat by itself but all those goblin-like stuff clawing at you without you having a chance to feed...that was to much.

And after all the hassle...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What a :daisy: :daisy: anti-climactic final is that?! You either blow up or discover that you're a fool of a prick. GAH! ~:pissed:

:sweatdrop:
.

Remember, if you're using melee weapons you can use the tab key to block. Without celerity, I'd figure you get two whacks in and then it's time to block.

About Ming

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Frustrating fight, but as a Toreador, I managed to kill her by keeping up blood buff/celerity and hacking the tentacle spawn before they grew bigger. There's an optioni n the gameplay menu where you can set disciplines to auto-renew. I'd suggest using the flamethrower at the get go and then going in with the Tael'ma'ra blade.

If you're character is better with firearms, stick and move, use full auto weapons (she's hard to miss) and keep moving. Don't get cornered and kill the tentacle spawn before they grow.

When I played Malkav, I spammed Vision of Death using blood packs and that took a nasty chunk out of her. Active disciplines won't effect bosses fully, but they'll still work.

As for the flying bat, activate the spot lights to blind and down it and then bar-b-que it with the flamethrower. Make sure to keep your six clear of the respawning enemies on the ground, the flamethrower is useful for that as well.

As econ21 said before, gamebanshee has a good guide as well.

Of course, these fights made me wish I could get a tactical nuke from Mercurio.

As for the ending, they're multiple ones, but I agree it's pretty much a choice of who's patsy you end up being. Still better a patsy who lives than some of the other results.

Edit: A question that's been bugging me

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Why did Jack go to all that trouble? If he wanted LaCroix dead, why not just use a less circuitious way to kill him? Or is it some sort of reverse Anarch litmus test, where anyone who's authoritarian and ambitious enough to open the sarcaphagus is removed?

.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OverKnight

Why did Jack go to all that trouble? If he wanted LaCroix dead, why not just use a less circuitious way to kill him? Or is it some sort of reverse Anarch litmus test, where anyone who's authoritarian and ambitious enough to open the sarcaphagus is removed?

---

I have no answer but inconsistency due to the ned game being rushed. The Anarch final is really inconsistent; Niñes (and I hate them pronouncing it "nayns") just disappears; you don't meet him to report success etc. Why is that slow-motion hearing seeing Jack and the mummy? If Jack was such a power monger ass, why did he save your life when you were nothing but a neonate?...

From the walkthrough, the only logical ending appears to be that of the Regent's. He thanks you and hides the Sarcophagus.

And that one! Why would Beckett go freaky if it contains nothing but a harmless mummy? Full of inconsistencies all around... :no:

Still, the early and mid game were wonderful, the humour was brilliant and the artwork was beautiful. Despite the rushed out final and imbalanced boss battles the experience was worth the time invested. :yes:

I give the game 3 out of 5, or even 7/10. :rtwyes:
.

Now that you're done, I suggest you play once more as a Malkavian. Your dialogue options are completely different, and you gain a further insight into the game, like Velvet's real name.

.
I'll probably do that. :yes: (Yase, I'm desperate Whacker! :embarassed:) I might try a Tremere too, for learning further stuff from Maximillian. ~:)
.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

I hate Auspex. The Cost:Reward ratio you get when upgrading Auspex isn't worth upgrading it behind the first dot.

---

I guess I got fond of it when I found out that it improved the firearm skill high enough to make the sniper rifle useful, and it's long lasting enough to make it possible to be active constantly without much of a blood drain. The occational feeding is enough.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OverKnight

Why did Jack go to all that trouble? If he wanted LaCroix dead, why not just use a less circuitious way to kill him? Or is it some sort of reverse Anarch litmus test, where anyone who's authoritarian and ambitious enough to open the sarcaphagus is removed?

---

Let see now, the Sabbat goes in to the open, loses and in the sane choises, the Kuei Jin is also pretty badly damaged. How do you think the key ended up at the Kuei Jin in the first place? LaCroix death isn't the only thing that happens. And Jack is pretty much home free on the killings as well, as the game characters lack some information we get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

I have no answer but inconsistency due to the ned game being rushed. The Anarch final is really inconsistent; Niñes (and I hate them pronouncing it "nayns") just disappears; you don't meet him to report success etc.

---

The only thing inconsistant is that they lack an indication that you're still alive after the blast imo. I give that the choises in the end is a bit odd, as you have a tendency of wanting to walk out with the key, but that option doesn't exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

Why is that slow-motion hearing seeing Jack and the mummy? If Jack was such a power monger ass, why did he save your life when you were nothing but a neonate?...

---

I guess that they show you the mummy so, you can be sure what was in the sarcophogus from the start. As for saving you, he might have gotten some insight that you will end up important for his plan, there's probably more than one Malkavian that gets odd insights about you for example. You know someone is sending you those chess mails.
Otherwise I suspect he's pretty indifferent about you getting out there alive or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

And that one! Why would Beckett go freaky if it contains nothing but a harmless mummy? Full of inconsistencies all around... :no:

---

Because he found out that it's a bomb in there perhaps? And telling you that would probably end up with LaCroix knowing that and that would be politics, something Beckett avoids.

If I could write my own ending:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'd pummel LaCroix with the key for about an hour screaming, "Is this what you wanted? Huh!? You still want the key, you spineless fop? This is what you get for making me run your stupid errands!"

I'd then diablerise the nancy bastard. Using my new found elder powers, I'd cow the Primogen into bending the knee, stick the sarcophagus into a warehouse, and forge a truce with the Anarchs because Isaac, Nines and Tourette like me so much, since I ran their stupid errands.

Then I'd rule LA with an Iron fist, making others run my errands muhahahahahaha.

Oh and I'd find out who stole my bike in the 5th grade and take my revenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ironside

I guess I got fond of it when I found out that it improved the firearm skill high enough to make the sniper rifle useful, and it's long lasting enough to make it possible to be active constantly without much of a blood drain. The occational feeding is enough.

---

I have no love for the sniper rifle. If you want a scope plus high damage, go for the Steyr Aug.

They need a Vampire mod for the Total War series.