EB Preview :: Hegemones tou Stratou

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans.

Work on the next EB release is going smoothly, in fact workload has increase in the later days.

To show you how much work has been done here are some generals for you to view while waiting. These will be your family members, the male members of the royal family (or noble houses of Qarthadast) who will lead your armies to great victories or devastating defeats.

Thanks goes to stefan25 for these excellent generals. And to Caratacos for drawing the awesome shields and to Forgus for his aid on Baktrian shield! And also thanks to spirit of Rob for the Klerouchikoi Phalangitai at bottom of the preview.

Generals

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/...rm_c2c4d35.jpg
Epeiros

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/...em_aef391f.jpg
Makedonia

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/...um_bd8b279.jpg
Arche Seleukeia

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/...lm_1cd97ec.jpg
Ptolemaioi

http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/...tm_2b53e19.jpg
Baktria

http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/...tm_59b065a.jpg
Qarthadastim

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/...lm_a6f7183.jpg
Koinon Hellenon (retouch)

Shields

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/...em_0fd00ae.jpg
Arche Seleukeia: This shield shows Apollo on the Omphallos surrounded with the framing motifs from the Philip II shield. The Apollo is the overwhelmingly dominant motif on Seleukid coins from this era and continues to be so until Antiochos IV.

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/...om_4ef0560.jpg
Epeiros: This shield depicts the fearsome Kerberos, the three headed beast that guards the gates of the Underworld. Such a fitting image, for the leaders of the regions where the cruel Acheron river flows.

http://img39.picoodle.com/img/img39/...dm_f4d8265.jpg
Makedonia: Motifs from the "Philip II" shield, with 7 half-circles surrounding the 8 pointed Makedonian star.

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/...em_1e3faed.jpg
Ptolemaioi: The central theme is the Ptolemaic eagle gripping he thunderbolt, surrounded by Horus Egyptian motifs. This shows the actual fusion between both cultures.

The shields for Baktria & Qarthadastim contain graphical nudity, which is why they are clickable links instead of thumbnails.
View at own discretion:

Baktria
The shield shows Dionysos, the god of the arts and altered-consciousness. Here he is flanked by his followers the Maenads after they had ripped Pentheus to pieces in the woods - his head rests under Dionysos' foot. It is said that in early times Dionysos had conquered Baktria and brought the art of wine to the region; hence the importance of Dionysos to the Hellenics in Baktria.

Qarthadastim
This shield shows the image of Melkart/Melqart, the patron god of Tyre, Carthage`s mother city. He`s the Phoenician version of Herakles, and as such, he`s depicted killing the Nemean Lion, the first of Herakles`s 12 Labors.




And as a little bonus:
Kleruouchikoi Phalangitai Showcase

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We hope you have enjoyed this preview of the new generals.
Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.
Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.
As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

Europa Barbarorum ORG forum

Europa Barbarorum TWC forum

We give special thanks to PicOodle that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a great day!


Sincerely,

The Europa Barbarorum team.

FIRST!

Look great, as usual :smash:

Got to love the Epeiros Shield!!!! Thanks for the preview....:2thumbsup:

Baktria has an interesting shield.. o_O

Anyway, great work, they all look absolutely amazing!

Great work! All of this is stunning.
Loving the Ptolemaoi shield. It has a really supreme, imperial look and blends Hellenic and Egyptian cultures nicely.

Very smart work, should make them extremely distinctive on the battlefield.

~:cool: great work

Thanks for the comments.

Preview has been updated.

The Epeiros, Quarthadastim and Ptolemaioi generals are brilliant! great work:2thumbsup:

Glad y'all are liking them! Stefan has done amazing work with them, and Rob's klerouchoi phalangitai are some of my favorite incoming features for the next release.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Very smart work, should make them extremely distinctive on the battlefield.

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On behalf of all of us, thanks Geoffrey, that was one main concerns, and it is very comforting to see that we actually made them different enough.

Absolutely beautiful work!!! I'm looking forward to the next version so badly! :2thumbsup:

Great Work!!!:yes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhipsaspis

Absolutely beautiful work!!! :2thumbsup:

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I second that, adds more depth to the game when each faction has it's own flair.

There's some very detailed work gone into those puppies, well done everyone.

Ps thanks for the extra pikeman link, not everyone's cup of tea, but I do like my pikes, and Arche Seleukeia will no doubt be getting another outing.

Yeah, great work! So many details on the generals... I think I'll have to start a new hellenic campaign when the next version is there.

Great Work!!! I love the new generals. The new Shields are almost too good! But my favorites are the new Klerouchikoi Phalangitai units(I hope you make em recruitable in more areas then before, they are gonna be my new backbone of my hellenistic armies) . I cant wait for the next version! <3 <3 <3 <3

The following quote depicts in almost absolute detail what those Hellenistic Generals were... Alexander wannabe's to the extreme, but Megas Alexandros was only ONE.

Quote:

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... is the Hellenistic monarch par excellence, his career driven by megalomaniacal ambitions leading to murderous assaults upon family and followers and disastrous foreign adventures against superior forces. His idealized portraiture attempts to mimic the gods with its bold staring gaze and unruly, free-flowing hair, but at its most extreme is a personification of hysteria in its Dionysiac sense.

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Who do you think this description is talking about?

No, not the one that comes to mind... Hey, try to at least guess before clicking on the button below...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If link doesn't work copy paste it into a new explorer/firefox window

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotvie...cID=99&Lot=353

results will surprise you

looks great

sorry if this is a stupid question, but is this work for a newer version of EB for RTW (as I thought 0.81final was the last one) or for M2TW,

but I guess it must be for RTW as it's obviously in this section

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keravnos

The following quote depicts in almost absolute detail what those Hellenistic Generals were... Alexander wannabe's to the extreme, but Megas Alexandros was only ONE.



Who do you think this description is talking about?

No, not the one that comes to mind... Hey, try to at least guess before clicking on the button below...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If link doesn't work copy paste it into a new explorer/firefox window

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotvie...cID=99&Lot=353

results will surprise you

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i knew it was him:book:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swiss_Halberd_Pike_Landsknecht

looks great

sorry if this is a stupid question, but is this work for a newer version of EB for RTW (as I thought 0.81final was the last one) or for M2TW,

but I guess it must be for RTW as it's obviously in this section

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It's for the new RTW version of EB; as you rightly said, EB2 stuff is in the EB2 Forum. The current version is called "0.81afinal" because it's the last version that will be called "0.8"-something: that simply means that the next release of EB (for RTW) will be called 0.9 or higher.


Now for my own question: what does the title mean? :beam:

I know it's got something to do with rule and rulers, but that's only from GK - never actually studied Greek so I need some help with understanding it :beam:

Leaders of the armies I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Leaders of the armies I think.

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"Leaders of the army", correct!

About the Bactrian shield... I prefer the blond, although the dark haired is also very cute. The severed head is outright sexy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by I Am Herenow

It's for the new RTW version of EB; as you rightly said, EB2 stuff is in the EB2 Forum. The current version is called "0.81afinal" because it's the last version that will be called "0.8"-something: that simply means that the next release of EB (for RTW) will be called 0.9 or higher.


Now for my own question: what does the title mean? :beam:

I know it's got something to do with rule and rulers, but that's only from GK - never actually studied Greek so I need some help with understanding it :beam:

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oh right

wasn't too aware about 0.9, not sure when that would be done, and whether we would need to uninstall everything (EB & RTW), or just install a eb 0.9 exe that would 'upgrade' it

I haven't had too much time to play in general, but have really enjoyed EB so far

Gorgeous! I believe these skins are so beautiful that they will transcend the battlefield, making the RPG factor in the campaign even more exciting, something at which EB already excels. I anticipate the personal touch they will give each faction.

Bingo, you are great, guys! I am really looking forward to the new EB.
:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:
:2thumbsup: :horn:

Awesomeness. These actually make me sort of understand why back in the day people who could afford to had as much ornamentation tacked onto their war gear as they could.

...and I've got the Seleukid and Ptolemaic one pegged as the shared first place for peacockry... which really seems only appropriate in a way. :sweatdrop:

The Generals look fantastic! I especially like the Seleukid one, but the Bactrian shield is... well sexy that's it!

i am so very excited about generals being in the game! i cant wait to fight with 2 or 3 family members in an army!

Those Generals look outstanding. Truly looking forward to getting my hands on the next version.

keep it up EB!

great stuff!

I'll add my piece here as well...you guys are doing an amazing job with the graphics! Keep up the fantastic work...as so many have said here before, I can't wait to see this all come together in the new version!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karielle

Baktria has an interesting shield.. o_O

Anyway, great work, they all look absolutely amazing!

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That was my thought too. Both of them.

I don't think I'll ever look at Mainads the same way again. Or however you spell that word.

Wot! No Eleutheroi General? :magnify:
Can't you at least put some sort of placeholder?

Yes, there it is, I soiled myself. Thanks, EB-team. ;)

You know what the first thing is what comes to mind, when I see those shields? What a waste to carry them into battle. Imagine someone working weeks on painting something like that, carefully, on those shields. Then imagine him seeing the paint ripped off in the first silly skirmish the army comes across. What a waste, what a waste.

Nice Bactrian tactic, btw. Just put naked ladies on your shield, that'll distract those barbarians long enough for you to kick their behinds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoom

Wot! No Eleutheroi General? :magnify:
Can't you at least put some sort of placeholder?

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...but we like the vanilla eleutheroi general... :yes:

The orange beard is quite nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paullus

...but we like the vanilla eleutheroi general... :yes:

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:inquisitive: Wotta perv.

Amasing job!!!!!
EB team will ever be able to surprise me!!!!!

Amazing work, guys!

Can't wait for the release.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoom

Wot! No Eleutheroi General? :magnify:
Can't you at least put some sort of placeholder?

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Who said there isnt one? Not all of the Eleuteroi are Greeks I know for a fact theres one wandering around with a green lightsaber :laugh4:

Well, since there were Greeks at the Eastern extremity of the map through to at least the East coast of Iberia, I'd think the Eleutheroi general skin that would fit best would be very Greek looking :inquisitive:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoom

Well, since there were Greeks at the Eastern extremity of the map through to at least the East coast of Iberia, I'd think the Eleutheroi general skin that would fit best would be very Greek looking :inquisitive:

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Not that! greek. We've made a rebel general already.

Foot

I've no doubt it's going to be truly a sight to see.

Greek looking perhaps but not Greek :clown:

Well, pleased to hear it anyway, its the only vanilla RTW skin left in the present game & awfully jarring :balloon2:

Cool skins, people, cool skins. Baktria's shield is real cool. XD

From "Random Musings", are you you going to make a "modesty patch" version of the Baktrian shield too ? :beam:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watchman

From "Random Musings", are you you going to make a "modesty patch" version of the Baktrian shield too ? :beam:

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Why, you would have to search really closely to see it, besides...nudity in art and culture like these have no need to be censored. Thats like putting a black bar on the statue of David, you just dont, its not considered pornographic in nature.

You do know that Watchman was joking and making a tongue-in-cheek reference to a post on TWC, right?

Yeh i get that, i just wanted to say what i thought on the subject, i wasnt abusing his post per say, just the thing in general. Its everywhere, such as the modesty for the Gaesetae, the fact is...they fought naked, deal with it. meh, i guess im overreacting but i just see it all the time lol.

You're a good man, pseudocaesar.:2thumbsup:

Let's move on folks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abou

You're a good man, pseudocaesar.:2thumbsup:

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:P Cheers! On Topic: What were your sources for the generals?

This would take pages upon pages to answer, but all effort was taken to ensure Historical authenticity.

Now, I understand this must sound corny, so here is one of them...

For Epeiros, the statuette of a General found at Dodona, presumably the dedicatory image of a "Strategos" of Epeiros, and quite possibly a King of Pyrrhos' lineage. The statue has been identified as belonging to "Kineas", Pyrrhos' most trusted friend and general, but that too is conjectural, at best.

I understand that there are a lot of Pyrrhos statues uncovered over the years, and a reconstruction at present day Arta, then Ambrakia, his capital, but those are all either Romani-era and reconstructions of Romani era statues. The one used was deffinitely Epeirote, and hellenic to boot. One of its most characteristic qualities is the fact that the one wearing it is wearing the latest novelty mail, under his lamellar coated linothorax. It has been theorized that bronze bolts were holding those Iron "shards" in place/reinforcing the cuirass as well. While a sight to behold in battle, it really is a great cuirass as there are 3 different layers of defense for the one wearing it, Iron lamellae on top, linothorax, leather underneath that and under it all a mail hauberk (and of course some kind of padding below that-Not one person can wear a mail hauberk without something below that-Thanks Watchman). Deffinitely what a Strategos would need to go to war with and survive. Besides, seeing that his Grandfather, Alexandros I of Epeiros was killed while fighting Samnites in nearby Pandosia in 331 BCE, it would be absolutely sure that he would go for broke, so far as his own defense was concerned. He knew that his enemies would try to kill him, so he would probably try to be as "hard to kill" as possible.

https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...s/PIC_0292.jpg

https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...s/PIC_0321.jpg

https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...s/PIC_0324.jpg

https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...s/PIC_0322.jpg

Then there was the depiction of the battle in heraklea, when he nearly died.

Quote:

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he began the charge,
conspicuous by his rich and beautiful armor, and letting it be seen

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Quote:

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and changing
his scarf and his arms with Megacles, one of his friends, and,
obscuring himself, as it were, in his, charged upon the Romans

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Quote:

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Dexous, who, snatching away his helmet and his robe, rode at
once to Laevinus, holding them up, and saying aloud he had killed
Pyrrhus.

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some other indications on what kind of armor he used, was the fact that...

Quote:

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until Pyrrhus,
understanding what had happened, rode about the army with his face
bare, stretching out his hand to his soldiers, and telling them aloud
it was he

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thus his helmet must be obscuring his face. Both the one he wore initially and the subsequent one. Much like the helmet the Epeiros' general wears ingame. It is a Chalkidian bronze helmet (please note that the nose piece is missing from the below helmet)
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...singanosep.jpg
(For more on its decoration, see below)

A helmet with a "ram" cheek was selected for various reasons. One of them was the fact that in Epeiros, one of the chief "honorary" positions was "chief herder". The reason for that would be that Epeiros, then and now is largely mountainous, goat country, the "highland of Greece" in dire contrast to rich, filled with valleys Makedonia, and flatland Thessalia.

Crest and plumes, there are coins that depict him as he is shown, and illustrators (Including the famous and recently deceased one, McManus) have also painted Epeirote troops as having either 3 crests in their helmets or 1 crest and two plumes. Their leader could have no less.

The plume arrangement selected, as well as being both a reference to the mountainous and hardy nature of the Epeirotes, is also a direct reference to the "bulls" of Epeiros, of whom the ancient writers speak of. When seen in the midst of battle your eyes are drawn towards him, and it is exactly as is the ancient greek text which is translated (roughly) as...

Quote:

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he began the charge,
conspicuous by his rich and beautiful armor, and letting it be seen

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in here...
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/674

Another source, calls his cloak/robe "... red and had many golden designs in it"

here is a woman holding in hand the greaves of Achilles. As Aiakides traced their ancestry to Neoptolemos, son of Achilles (also known as Pyrrhos) those would be great to have for the General of Epeiros. This goes on the "knee" part of the greave
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...lesGreaves.jpg

Then on the "leg" part, the thunderbolt, famous Epeirote symbol, the "thunderbolt" of "Zeus Keraunios", Patron God of Dodona (along with Dione his Epeirote-only godess.)
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...z-shield-1.jpg

In this coin, depicting a shield where the "ΜΟΛΟΣΣΩΝ" (Of Molossians) is barely read.

the two plumes possibly be something like the following, in the Coin of Athena struck by Pyrrhos in 281 BCE, VERY near in the time when the events took place in Heraklea, thus it would be easy to assume that this would be the idea of a "VERY ORNATE and IMPOSING" helmet. Does that Hercules guy in the other side of the coin remind you of anything?
http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotvie...cID=202&Lot=37
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...oin281BC-1.jpg

--Please note that "Athenas" wore the most ornate and imposing helmets there were. I think it would be safe to assume that the Crest/plumes configuration of Pyrrhos could be something of equal magnificence. The Battle of Heraclea took place in 280 BC between the Romans under the command of Consul Publius Valerius Laevinus and the combined forces of Greeks from Epirus, Tarentum, Thurii, Metapontum, and Heraclea under the command of King Pyrrhos of Epeiros.

This could VERY WELL also be a "Victory" coin. The triple crested helmet has been depicted as close to that on coin, but with the model limitations in mind. So the 2 crests (who align themselves almost vertically to the center one) became plumes (All Hellenistic generals share the same model - I know it doesn't look it, but they do. Imagine what a FANTASTIC job Stephan25 has done)

--edited because some details were in a different place. EBH is quite big, you know...


As you see the EB team has done its homework. Now I am sure that there are a lot of thinngs we could do differently. Still, this is how it was done and these are some of the reasons. Now, please don't expect this kind of account for EVERY single ONE of our generals or our units too.

I know it sounds corny to hear and read, but we DO our homework, and ALL of our units have references. The team chooses to spend whatever time it has trying to improve the mod, not "justify" our choises. We have a Unit Dictator, who can be a very unpleasant person if EB criteria aren't met :skull: :whip: :hmg:

I took the time to gather all data and present to you, whereas there are other things I should be doing, just to let your minds at ease on that very fact. We try our LEVEL best to be as authentic and true to the sources as we can. There is no way to accurately 100% portray a world that is more than 2.000 years old, but we try. There isn't much we can gain from EB :laugh4: but we try to be as correct as possible. No corners cut. ..:smash:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keravnos

One of its most characteristic qualities is the fact that the one wearing it is wearing the latest novelty mail, under his lamellar coated linothorax. It has been theorized that bronze bolts were holding those Iron "shards" in place/reinforcing the cuirass as well. While a sight to behold in battle, it really is a great cuirass as there are 3 different layers of defense for the one wearing it, Iron lamellae on top, linothorax, leather underneath that and under it all a mail hauberk.

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...and some kind of padding under the mail, don't forget. That's heavy cataphract-level body armour certainly; either of the metal layers is HC enough by its lonesome already, together they ought to be night impenetrable.

Going to weigh a ton though, but then, I imagine generals didn't exactly take walks in that outfit. :knight:

Great catch. Edited to include that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keravnos

As you see the EB team has done its homework. Now I am sure that there are a lot of thinngs we could do differently. Still, this is how it was done and these are some of the reasons. Now, please don't expect this kind of account for EVERY single ONE of our generals or our units too.

I know it sounds corny to hear and read, but we DO our homework, and ALL of our units have references. The team chooses to spend whatever time it has trying to improve the mod, not "justify" our choises. We have a Unit Dictator, who can be a very unpleasant person if EB criteria aren't met :skull: :whip: :hmg:

I took the time to gather all data and present to you, whereas there are other things I should be doing, just to let your minds at ease on that very fact. We try our LEVEL best to be as authentic and true to the sources as we can. There is no way to accurately 100% portray a world that is more than 2.000 years old, but we try. There isn't much we can gain from EB :laugh4: but we try to be as correct as possible. No corners cut. ..:smash:

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I for one really appreciated your entire post Keravnos. Not because i wanted an entire account on how the EB team came to a decision on a specific general or a unit. Simply, it was just the information you provided in the post and how it relates to EB that i find extremely interesting. This is a case where the process is just as fascinating as the end product...at least for me anyway....good stuff....:2thumbsup:

awesome work on the generals AND the shields, it all looks beautiful!
luvin the pimp on the baktrian shield :laugh4:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keravnos

Great catch. Edited to include that!

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You're welcome. :bow:

Out of curiosity, when was it people actually figured out how to make proper mail sleeves ? I understand the join at the shoulder/armpit was long a stumbling block - or did they just use separate pieces for the arms ?

What type of sword do the eastern and makedonian genarals have: It looks a little exotic to me.
You mention that they are going to be FMs so will all except the KH be mounted?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Diadoch

What type of sword do the eastern and makedonian genarals have: It looks a little exotic to me.
You mention that they are going to be FMs so will all except the KH be mounted?

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1. the sword is a kopis
2. yes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watchman

You're welcome. :bow:

Out of curiosity, when was it people actually figured out how to make proper mail sleeves ? I understand the join at the shoulder/armpit was long a stumbling block - or did they just use separate pieces for the arms ?

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I can't answer you there, I don't know. The theory is that Boii or other Keltoi armorers were a mainstay in Epeiros much before the Italian invasion. And I think that not enough credit is given to the Celts for many things we consider other peoples invented. Now, what they did to solve this issue you speak of, however, I don't know.

Huh. I know I've read the Romans were still stuck with sleeveless mail fairly late, and it was also mentioned Celtic armourers were the ones who figured out how to construct the shoulder join thingy.

Wonder if they were just late aquiring the services of smiths with the know-how ?

One thing I'm wondering about, how are the images on the shields made? Are they supposed to be painted on? And is there a chance of making them look ever so slightly weathered? Nothing too extreme, but a few cracks (no nudity jokes, please!) would look nice.

Looking at them again, I can say all the shields look beautiful but the only one I've got doubts on is the Ptolemaic shield. For some reason, the eagle to me looks a bit too cartoony, neither particularly realistic nor stylised; perhaps removing some details would make it look a bit sharper. For instance, the Baktrian design has a nice balance between realism and a stylised look.

Is there any chance of us seeing what the generals' horses will look like/seeing them on horses? :2thumbsup:

They use the same horses as the bodyguard, all of whom are already finished. You can find the horses in game if you use the current bodyguard units. As for what the generals will look like on the horse, we suggest imagination until the next release.

Foot

Though IMO the word "great" would be historically accurate. ~;)

This-keyboard-has-a-faulty-space-key-so-I'll-use-this-to-mark-spaces.

I-found-all-shields-to-be-awesome-and-extremely-distinctive-as-was-already-said.
Since-I-do-not-know,-has-there-been-any-punic-shield-salvaged-from-any-archeological-site?-I-wasn't-aware-elephants-were-so-important-in-punic-culture-to-be-represented-in-shields.I-can-suppose-that-was-also-a-part-to-improvisation.

Other-than-that,-bloody-good-work.:2thumbsup:

Truely fabulous work as always guys~:thumb:

AWSOME WORK!!!

Can't wait to use those guys to charge down the enemy... :laugh4:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolt

This-keyboard-has-a-faulty-space-key-so-I'll-use-this-to-mark-spaces.

I-found-all-shields-to-be-awesome-and-extremely-distinctive-as-was-already-said.
Since-I-do-not-know,-has-there-been-any-punic-shield-salvaged-from-any-archeological-site?-I-wasn't-aware-elephants-were-so-important-in-punic-culture-to-be-represented-in-shields.I-can-suppose-that-was-also-a-part-to-improvisation.

Other-than-that,-bloody-good-work.:2thumbsup:

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Many carthagenian coins have African elephant images on them. Look it up if you want.