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There is a debate going on here about allowing children in Kindergaten (1-6 years old) to unfold their sexual expression.
"If the girls and boys want to undress and masturbate, let them".
Personally I am with the conservative camp on this one. It is an outrage. I would pull my youngest daughter out of a Kindergaten that would embrace a policy like this.
Article: Aftenposten in English
What say you?
I'm with you Sigurd. That is opening Pandora's Box for abuse - precisely what Langfeldt says he wants to prevent. Children also need to learn that there is a time and a place for everything, and daycare/school is not the place to have "jolly time". When the kids reach first grade, are they going to suddenly be told "No Johnny, you can't do that anymore"? Bad idea.
Me, I think Kindergarten is too early to impose sexual repression on kids. Let them play doctor. I did so too with my nieces at that age.
Just socialise them a bit. Like you do with food. You don't force a two-and-a-half year old to eat with a knife and fork either. At that age you limit socialising to 'don't eat what fell into the sandbox', etc.
A four year old showing his goods in public traumatises only adults, not his fellow four year olds.
Uh, yeah, that is my plan exactly. Young children are unlearned lots of things, constantly. You can't drool, you can't crap your pants anymore - use a potty, can't play with Johnny in public anymore, stop sucking your thumb, speak with two words in public.Quote:
When the kids reach first grade, are they going to suddenly be told "No Johnny, you can't do that anymore"?
I'm with Sigurd.
That is appalling and disgusting.
CR
While I don't think children being naked or touching themselves is something to get especially uptight about, it's probably something that should be gently discouraged at this age, with an eye to socialisation.
To be honest, I find the whole premise of the article a bit silly. The kids have no conception of sexuality. They aren't masturbating, they're just examining their bodies.
With victims of paedophillia though you do see premature-sexualisation. Perssonally I think that children should be told these things when they start asking, which is usually around 12 or so.
Are kindergarteners biologically capable of masturbation, in most cases?
Honestly, the only thing that came to mind were those games in Brave New World.
Not particularly a step in the right direction.
totally insane.
I think they can feel something nice, but it will stay rather clean and dry down there, at least concerning boys.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
They're incapable of sexual arousal, that's for sure. They're missing the cocktail of hormones necessary to feel genuine sexuality.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
My wife got upset when my little boy lemur had an erection. She was unable to complete helping him with potty, and called me in. I explained to her that it was physically impossible for him to be aroused in the sense that an adult would be, and that there was nothing freakish or strange to worry about.
I tell my little lemurs there's nothing wrong or dirty about their genitals, but they're private. You don't kiss strangers and tell them you love them, likewise you don't show them your genitals. This has worked just fine so far.
I don't have a problem with children exploring their bodies within reason, but I have reservations about any adult attempting to supervise or condone such activity.
"The only thing that is absolutely certain is that children, sooner or later, will play sexual games and examine each other at the kindergarten," she told Dagbladet. "When the personnel are uncertain, that passes on to the children, and it can be negative."
That's a whole lot of assumptions right there. Staff being uncertain about sexuality will lead children to have problems? Excuse me? What if the staff is also uncertain about letting children shit in the hallways? Do we then need to allow them to defecate anywhere lest they have potty issues?
By the age of four any normally developed child can distinguish between private and public. My little boy already dislikes it if anyone else is in the bathroom when he goes potty. Why would we break down established norms of behavior when they are already capable of understanding them? Why would we educate them that sexual play is acceptable in public, in school? Shouldn't that sort of thing wait until they are grown-up perverts?
Nothing wrong with telling kids the story about the flowers and the bees when they ask about it.
Nothing wrong with a 4 year old exploring his body.
But encouraging them to play with genitals in class is beyond me... They're called privae parts fora reason. Now sex and the human body is natural and nothing ugly or bad, but this is a bit...well silly and disturbing to say the least.
QFT...Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
As has been said, this whole thing is a tempest in a teacup.
Should a 5 year-old be allowed to sit in the middle of class and "masturbate" (which is not possible in the first place; they might "play" with themselves, but they are certainly not going to be making the "O" face)? No they shouldn't. But should they be punished, or even spoken to harshly if they are seen exploring themselves or others? No they shouldn't. A gentle word and a patient explanation (using "kid" terms) about social norms is all that's necessary.
So, please, save all of your moral outrage for something actually worth it.
People here: Duct tape. That is all.
I agree other than the "kid" terms bit. Why not speak frankly in an adult manner to them? I think kids appreciate that more than telling them birds and bees bullshit or some other condescending lie. They don't need to much info of course, but just the simple approach Lemur has taken. Nothing wrong with it, just know the place and time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball
I do agree with you Goof, that this is too far out there for anyone to really get in a tizzy about it. It's only provocative if you let yourself take the bait.
I am deeply shocked by this outrageous talk and the way you make this look like it's nothing Goof, actually depresses me.
:tnt: ~:mecry: :tnt:
I think CrossLOPER's idea of duct taping the kids' genitals is a good idea, it keeps them from exploring what they should not explore at their age and will definitely ease my shock and depression to know that their precious family jewels are well protected by 5mm of strong tape.
two people love each other
A baby comes out
that should be the extent of a 5 year olds knoweldge. Or yall could embrace the american system where you are tuaght the condom is evil and end up with teen mothers and STDs. Oh happy meduim where art thee
I just don't understand that. When I was in kindergarten, it was all I could do to add, subtract, or read more than five words. Now they are exploring their sexuality, something that fifteen year olds have problems with?
:stop:
Turn around. Leave.
While I don't like the idea of encouraging chlidren to masturbate in class and I do agree that that this will lead to more Sexual Abuse. On the other hand I have no problem with them exploring their bodies - afterall, when is the correct time for it to become less socially unacceptable and who should dictate that?
I couldn't help but make that connection as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by GH
Well both yes and no.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
While it's certianly not like when you get older, you still get an orgasm after a while.
And yes I started doing it when I was 4 so I know :embarassed:
As for the idea in the OP, it's just silly.
They can't understand things like sex at that age so encouraging something they don't understand seems like a bad idea.
Kids running around naked and touching themselfs is nothing sexual and should be treated as such.
What BKS said is a valid point.
And the way I see it, "If it aint broke, don't fix it".
On a purely hygenic standpoint I'd think this would be really bad. No need for little kids to play with themselves and then stick their finger in their mouths and so on.
On a cultural standpoint, this shouldn't be encouraged because this is not acceptable behavior for adults. Unless this society really wants people to wipe it out and start doing their thing whenever they want, we shouldn't encourage the formation and encouragement of such behavior at such an early stage.
Well all I can say is if that I found out my daughters had been touched by some :daisy: kid exploring his sexuality, not only would that little kid get the spanking of a lifetime but his parent's would too. :whip: :whip: :skull:
But they're going to go to a Private School. No need to worry.
I think it's a non-issue that will be forgotten shortly. :inquisitive:
Well, I'm not in total disagreement. They actually should express it to kids at a ounger age, I don't know if its good to start in kindergarden, but they could try to teach it to the kids in less vulgar manner, like instead of telling the youngsters yourdad puts his penis in your moms hoohoo and he ejaculates and you make a baby.Am I allowed to say that? Anyways this would also let the kids think of it as a lesser issue, since they knew about it since kindergarden, it would actually prevent things, when they get older, since they know it is perfectly normal.
How come the idiots get this much air-time? I mean, the infamous South Park episode on premature sex-ed was centered on howoldarethey, 10 to twelwe in the series? Talk about hitting a nail on the spot.
Sigurd, read the chronicle in todays Dagbladet by Thore Langfeldt ~;)
Yes.. I read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
I can't help feeling that my children shouldn't be pushed into this. The way the article in OP portrayed this, made me think of a paedophile Kindergarten assistant standing in front of the children. "Today we are going to do something fun"...
What about Christian parents? The last time I checked we are supposed to be a nation of Lutherans.
I was in Kindergarten myself and there were none of this happening then (late 70's). I can with hand over my heart say that I didn't suffer. I haven't received any psychological problems from this.
I say, let's not introduce this to the children this young. My child who is in the Kindergarten is 3 years old. I will answer the questions from my young ones when they arrive. I am not going pre-emptive on them in this.
That said I hope they stay ignorant until their 21th birthday. :beam:
What, you never played doctor as a kid?
Hah! I recently learned that the Norwegian government offers excellent career opportunities for ambitious Frenchmen.
Once they turn me into the minister of public health (in, say, the standard two week time-frame) I shall command that all Norwegian women explore their sexuality in public. Starting with my blond-goddess-packed office. :yes:
Bring me better food than the norwegian food, and I'll happily serve you no matter what...Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Er, how to tell this...I, er, no offence, but I am not into that....Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Bo do tell your sisters to get in touch. :yes:
Haha! Well, not serve you like that, of course... But you'll need enforcers, right? Everyone needs a good gimp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
My sister isn't blonde though... Would you like my girlfriend instead?
This is going out of topic...
Anyway, I don't agree with the idea.
Pia Friis, you bloody redwine-leftie, stay away from the kids! Sexual games does not belong to kindergarten.
Ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakizashi