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The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
As you approach the great building in the center of Kart-Hadast, you are awe-struck by it's grandeur.
The city is bustling with activity, and the sights and smells around you liven the senses....surely this is the mightiest city on earth! A grand temple-complex to Baal and Astarte shares the center of the city with the great hall, where the Shophet of Safot Softim biQarthadast resides...
The Qarthadastim, being famous for their naval superiority undoubtedly gained from their Phoenician roots, have constructed a mighty port. As Governors and Senators alike arrive from all over Safot Softim biQarthadast, they speak of the great harbor, the grains and other goods which pass through it, and the mighty warships stationed at it's piers. Surely, the pride of Qarthadastim will ward off any aggressors!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsiuv
This will be the council thread for our SSbQ Succession Game.
To all those who aren't playing along, please, for the sake of my sanity and moderator's precious time, please do not post in this thread.
If you would like to join along, you may introduce yourself HERE.
PLEASE DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD IF YOU ARE NOT PLAYING ALONG!!
Official SSbQ Succession Game Constitution
On the Powers of Shophet
1) Any council member can run for the office of Shophet (senators and governors).
2) To run for Shophet, all nominees must express their wish to run before 11:59 P.M. EST (7:59 P.M. GMT) on the Wednesday preceding the election.
3) The Shophet will be elected by a council of his peers on the Friday of every week. Voting will take place over a period of 24 hours in the Council Thread. We will not use live chats for voting.
4) The Shophet will begin his term at any time following the live council meeting held on every Saturday (time pending), but must complete his term by the following Thursday.
After the Shophet posts his savegame, the next group of candidates for Shophet will be announced, and the process of voting will begin again.
5) The Shophet does not vote on matters in the council. He acts as judge of the proceedings, breaking tie-votes and guiding the general direction of the proposals based on strategic decisions.
On the Powers of Council Members (Governors and Senators)
1) Senators recieve one vote per proposal in council, while Governors recieve two.
2) Governors have 24 hours to complete battles in the field and return the save game, or the Shophet will confiscate the battle.
3) Battles fought by Governors are fought out by their respective members, barring extenuating circumstances to be decided by the Gamemaster.
4) Senators will move up in rank based on many things, but not limited to; activity, maturity, and general service given to the empire.
5) Council Members can amend these Constitutional Rules, or add addendums, during council by a formal proposal at any time during the course of the week. These will be voted on at the live debate (although a mechanism will be made available for those who cannot attend). The following format will be used for Constitutional Proposals in the council.
Constitutional Proposal 1.1 where 1 is the term of the Shophet, and .1 is the number of the proposal. So Constitutional Proposal 14.6 would be the sixth offical Constitutional Proposal made during the fourteenth term of our game. These issues will be voted on before the next Shophet begins his term.
6) Other proposals, known as Strategic Proposals, which include such things as building construction and troop recruitment/allocation, can be made at any time during the course of the week. These will be voted on at the live debate (although a mechanism will be made available for those who cannot attend). The following format will be used for Strategic Proposals in the council.
Strategic Proposal 1.1 where 1 is the term of the Shophet, and .1 is the proposal number. So proposal 14.6 would be the sixth official proposal made during the fourteenth term of our game. These issues will be voted on before the next Shophet begins his term i.e. the 15th term of our game.
/End Constitution
Glenn and Boru have been named co-GM's of this game, and will be expected to ensure the game keeps moving forward if I am unable to attend.
This thread is now open to all players of the SSbQ Succession Game. In-character discussion is preferred. If you've never roleplayed before, perhaps you should wait for some more experienced.
Bootsiuv
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Proposals for the 1st term of Shophet Abib 272 - Abib 270
Constitutional Proposal 1.1 - [I, Gisgo, Governor of Ippone, do hereby propose] an amendment be added to the constitution requiring a second for any nominee for Shophet before he can be added to the list of those seeking the position.
Constitutional Proposal 1.2 [originally Strategic Proposal 1.11] – Elect a general (hence known as the Magistrate) who shares the Shophet's term.
Constitutional Proposal 1.3 [originally Strategic Proposal 1.11] - Allow the Shophet to nominate a Magistrate in times of urgent need.
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Strategic Proposal 1.1 - Of the current 5 fleets that the Qarthadastim command, all but 1 shall be disbanded by the end of the year of 272 B.C.E.
Strategic Proposal 1.2 - I [Hanno, Governor of Lepki] would advise to see two levies made in each city of Iberia, in Corsica, in Sardinia, and in Lilybaeum.
Strategic Proposal 1.3 - The city of Lepki will be given the highest priority for construction of choice in the year 272 B.C.E.
Strategic proposal 1.4 – Peace with Epirus provided a payment for troubles caused [restitution] of at least 5.000 (10.000 is better) and Cartogaphy information.
Strategic Proposal 1.5 – Disband militias everywhere there are more than one detachment present to liberate cash that can be better used elsewhere.
Strategic Proposal 1.6 – Prepare Karalis, Bocchoris, Lepki, Gader and Alalia to receive ports as they need a land clearance to start trading in large scale.
Strategic Proposal 1.7 – Allow our mightiest Governor to build a better port at Lilibeo to increase our trade value.
Strategic Proposal 1.8 - A small company of levies should be constructed by the cities of Kart-Hadast, Attiqa and Adrumeto, that can be kept between these three provinces.
The company should consist of a medium number of light troops that can be sent immediately and cheaply to counter and independent threat that may appear from Numidia or Mauretania.
Strategic Proposal 1.9 - For my province I [Gisgo, Governor of Ippone] would like permission and troops from the senate to move south of my city and take the region south of Ippone.
Strategic Proposal 1.10 - Along the lines of proposal 1.8 i say that roads be built in as many provinces as possible as this will allow the forces in proposal 1.8 to better defend out homeland from any threats that do come!
Strategic Proposal 1.11 - The fleet near Alalia should be the only one not disbanded with the first turn.
Strategic Proposal 1.12 - Constructing civilian ports where the local terrain allows it should have priority over all but the most urgent of needs, especially over roads.
Strategic proposal 1.13 - Encourage growth in Alalia and build up military facilities to support future operations.
Strategic proposal 1.14 - Concentrate all currently availible offensive forces on taking north-west Africa asap,
Strategic proposal 1.15 - I strongly suggest that we defend ourselves. From what you may ask, why from the uppstarts and rebels and foreign armies that seek to destroy us. Therefore I propose the building of walls. Walls in Bocchoris, Alalia, Karali and Ippone. That will buy us time if those cities are badly defended to relieve the siege.
Strategic proposal 1.16 - Why do we have peasants and lowly citizen? To tax them of course! Let's put taxes on everything, salt, spices, ivory, you name it and we'll tax it.
Therefore I propose we raise taxes all over our glorious empire.
Strategic proposal 1.18 - I must requesition the forces from Atiqa, along with one company of Numidian Cavalry from Kart-Hadast itself, to be sent on a voyage to sicily to bolster my forces there, before they sail though, I ask that we train one company of Dorki Leebi-Feenikim Mookdamim (Liby-Phoecians) in Aqita or Kart-Hadast to be sent along with them, to ensure victory.
Strategic proposal 1.19 - I also ask that my elephants be kept in our service until at least after I have Syracusai, If the senate forbids my march upon Messana, then I shall bring up another proposal that shall wait until that time.
Strategic Proposal 1.20 - The war with Syrakousai must be our first priority after we've secured our frontiers.
Strategic Proposal 1.21 - Iberia must recieve all reinforcements Hamalcar does not need in the war with Syrakousai.
Strategic Proposal 1.22 - Admiral Thero will be allowed to retain command over a fleet of 26 of our finest warships. All other fleets will be disbanded.
strategic proposal 1.23 - Besiege Kirtan with a large force and await counterattack by the mobile army stationed nearby, and then destroy both in open combat.
Please Note: Strategic Proposal 1.11 was changed into Constitutional Proposals 1.2 and 1.3. All Strategic Proposals behind that have gone up the list, thus they have a number that is 1 lower than you might expect. Please pay attention to the propositions, not the numbers, as I may do this again in the future, for the sake of organization.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Governor signature: (junior members have to wait for signatures till they are a member!)
Senator signature:
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Oh, worthy citizens!
This day is a most pleasant one, a day fit for speaking such things as I may be obliged to divulge.
And there are many things, my busy friends, and there are important things, and as I am alone here, on this podium, surely there is much time!
You all know that our government, though turbulent and cast into uncertainty at times - bless our Shophet - has become stable and efficient once more.
I myself, though my frequently humble requests to help our state in Iberia were ignored brutishly, I myself have profited well from this change.
Yes, I have been given the military government of Lepki.
But, oh it is not a governor's position that I ever sought, nor is it a post such as has found me here!
For I do not command, but serve, I have always served my puissant people!
And here, in Lepki, it is apparent to me, that much like my own person and proposal has been brushed aside of the mighty guise of our Senate in Kart-Hadast, so too, has the most faithful province of Lepki been allowed no attention, no acknowledgement!
Dare I say, that you people here, who do supply and support the capital with every want, are so more deserving of a capital yourselves!
But we cannot appear disgracious, or ingrateful in our work.
No, dear men, dear kinfolk and women, for we are like the ox, that does pull the greatest burden and ask the slightest reward, nay, no reward, for completing without complaint, every wish of our master.
And though as our human state we have together the strength of many thousand oxen and their potential violence!
We must, as humans, attempt to imitate their patience also.
Break the back of our master with our vicious horns in a moment, we could do so, but then by what infamy would the name Hanno be known, by what savage rememberance would the province of Lepki stay in history?
To those who do not know our honour in suffering, it would be barbarous to even speak of such a thing.
Gentle, but giant people you are, you are known for this, but like gentle men it is supposed that we should remain faithful until destiny permits us!
And until such a time, it is Hanno who will under the guise of the willing ox, travel to Kart-Hadast and see that his true masters are furnished with all things they would desire!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*Mago, Governor of the city of Kart-Hadast, stands to take his place at the podium*
The Governor from Lepki is eloquent in speech, and surely wise in his rule. I have little doubt that the eastern frontiers will be safe under his patronage.
I stand before you, now, fellow council-members, to discuss the issues at hand. As governor of Kart-Hadast, I see much in my dealings with foreigners. I tell you now that the natives which surround us are treacherous at best, rebellious at worst. They must be dealt with if we are to secure our heartlands. They lack any real unity however, thus they pose little threat to those of us who sit here in this mighty hall.
Cities such as Ippone, and the wise Governor Hanno's own Lepki are many months march from our heartlands, thus these lands are much more vulnerable. I will await what these senators and governor have to say on the matter, but I am of the opinion that these two cities must be fortified as soon as the council deems fit.
On the matter of Sicilia, the Greeks of Syrakousai are liars and beggars. They have always been a thorn in our side. I feel it is here that we should apply the greatest percentage of our troops, as the lands surrounding Syrakousai are rich and fertile.
Hamalcar has assembled a mighty force, including a division of war elephants. What hope have the treacherous Greeks against such beasts?
The Romanioi, as the Greeks call them, have an alliance with the mercenaries and pirates of Messana, so this city must wait. War with the Senatus Populusque Romanus, as they're more properly known, is undesirable at best, and will cost us all our heads at worst.
Iberia is a matter of concern, as a large force of Turdetanians has recently been spotted to the north of Gader, which goes ungoverned. Hasdrubal finds himself severely outnumbered here, and reinforcing this region is also of utter importance which should be strongly considered by this council here today.
Our fleet, mighty though it may be, is currently too large for our economy to support. I would like to make my first official proposal to the council;
Strategic Proposal 1.1 - Of the current 5 fleets that the Qarthadastim command, all but 1 shall be disbanded by the end of the year of 272 BC.
I will now step down from my position on the podium, so that others who have assembled here may speak as well....but before I do, I would like to take this chance to announce officially my intent to run for the position of Shophet.
I thank my fellow council-members for their time
*the governor of Kart-Hadast takes his leave from the podium, and waits to hear from others with earnest....*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Mago, you are aggressive as the lions I keep in my own palace!
Surely, in the wild and their own domain did they hold their will over all lesser creatures!
But, with the regardless ignorance that accompanied their belligerence, they have found themselves to serve only as entertainment in a great being's lair - do not lead our magnificent Carthage into conflicts at every corner of our territory lest we end up scattered and caged under a more efficient empire!
And who has yet betrayed us?
Lepki is a most secure province, do not dare to doubt this!
On behalf of my most contented people, who have, as I have recently spoken in their presence, requested of me to ask lowly in this Senate that the city of Lepki may be given greater priority in construction rather than military.
Let your armies flourish where you will, but we of the eastern province wish to see greater production within our towns - that we may appease you, the capital, more brightly!
But, to speak of places outside my jurisdiction, on Iberia for a moment.
I do not wish any longer to travel to Gader, I am contented in my government.
However I want to be allowed to advise on the decisions you are creating in regard to that western province.
The tribes there, our reduced natives, have never provoked us or shown any hostility.
Rather they have acommodated us in our rule over the southern end of the peninsula.
The only city which has ever shown disaffection are the peoples that inhabit Arse! We are to embrace victory most profitably by opposing the rival citizens of Sicilica Graecus than to begin a prolonged war with all the native Iberians!
Yes, I commend strengthening the garrisons in all of our towns outside of Africa, especially that of Corsica!
But we need not be furnishing great armies everywhere!
Strategic Proposal 1.2
I would advise to see two levies made in each city of Iberia, in Corsica, in Sardinia, and in Lilybaeum.
Strategic Proposal 1.3
The city of Lepki will be given the highest priority for construction of choice in the year 272 B.C.E.
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I should allow the Senate to surround and digest these proposals, though I have many more things to praise and censure!
Namely, the conduct of our military in barbarian Numidia and how a war with the Syrakousai should be handled.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*uhum*
*Gisgo governer of Ippone takes to the podium*
I would like to say thank you to all those who have come before and set in such hard work on our constitution. You will all find me rather short of speech, my lot in life was not one of eloquence but I hope to show the council that I have been given instead the ability to lead men in battle. Many of you may know of my less than perfect history in my former assaults on our enemy, but i would tell you that i have proved myself a worthy tactician and defender and will soon prove my ability to attack. Towards that end and a few others i submit the following proposals
1. For my province i would like permission and troops from the senate to move south of my city and take the region south of Ippone, this city is very close and while a rather large number of the enemy sit in it i am more than sure that my tactical prowess and our superior troops will be able to take the city with no more than 60% their numbers. As soon as the city is taken and government installed the army can be disbanded or sent north for proposal 2
2. I second the former proposals on attacking syrakuse, though I am weary of the war elephants at our present situation, I would like to disband them now(2500$ a turn upkeep) but my father assures me they will be of good use against the Syrakusians so I will not speak out against his desire to keep them until Syrakousai is taken. I would also like to add onto the proposal for taking Syrakousai and say that we should concentrate all our forces(once our African provinces are secure) on Sicily and as quickly as possible take Messana and Rhegion. If we are to do this Rhegion is a very important strategic target, as the city has only one land route to reach it, and thus could serve as a bottleneck to cut off any SPQR troops moving south towards sicily.
3. an amendment be added to the constitution requiring a second for any nominee for shophet before he can be added to the list of those seeking the position
These are my proposals i now yield the floor to whichever senator would speak next
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
And how many troops would you demand Gisgo?
And to what city would go you marching off to in search of violence?
By what reason do you take the regulations of speaking and proposing in our Senate and bend them disgustingly to a level your incompetent speech can be heard above?
These proposals you have written, they are as clear as the water the people of Lepki must depressingly drink from!
Yet you have no concern for the economy of our empire, only to start wars with peoples and states I have not even yet heard of until now, and to me it seems you yourself have no knowledge of the countries you determine to fight!
Let us find by scribe and by travel, knowledge of these places that we intend to rule - before we declare war upon them!
Is this senate bent only upon conflict?
Are you all baying for the blood of any and all foreigners?
Are there no customs or races in this world that can convince you of friendship, beside our own?
Sicily is our greatest threat, and surely the garrison of the Syrakousai will be enormously overcome with little effort.
So let it be, and let us encompass one platform of the world at a time.
I do not rush to be in battle with the Ptolemaioi!
And as for those who think themselves capable of serving our senate, and doing so only by pointing your crooked fingers, have you never heard the great and noble man, who has lived and deliberated many years before our births, Aristotle?
For he says, "That it is absurd to hold that a man should be ashamed to be incapable of defendin himself with his limbs, and not be ashamed he cannot defend himself with speech and reason."
He tells us, "For it is more characteristic of a human being to defend himself with speech and reason than with his limbs".
So let his wisdom be heard amongst our Senate.
That we all are capable leaders, that men are as malleable in the streets of Kart-Hadast as they are in the face of barbarians!
Consider yourselves more seriously!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
My beloved colleges, it is my honor to be the first senator to address you all!
It is in our hand the fate of the greatest Republic of all times and the Republic expect from us nothing less then the same greatness!
As senator of Lilibeo, merchant, son of merchants, and member of the Sacred Band of Astarte I have been given the great honor to reverence Karthadastim both in war and in commerce and now I will try to do so in the Political Arena.
For years we fought off the many Greek menaces under the great command of our beloved governor Hamalcar who is yet to speak in this noble council as the sound and powerful voice of all Elymais!
In those years we learned that Greeks are a deceiving foe which destruction will not come only from weapons but likely, from alliances and especially, from money.
Without the three of them we will always have our island riches in the danger of thieves and criminal such as the one called Pyrrhus!
Therefore, I urge you to consider a merchant approach of war affairs, we need money, and we need rebuilding our economics from the endless wars we fought!
Build and rebuild ports at Karali, Bocchoris, Allaia, Gader and Lepki to allow the commerce to flow throughout the Republic should be a priority!
War with Epirus is not necessary to continue since his treacherous presence is no longer in the island, peace, with the proper reparations fee (10.000 and cartography information) can be acquired by a talented diplomat!
Let the Italiotes fight because that is what they do best and let as trade, because that is what we do best!
We need rebuilding our army, dispatching the militias and replace them with real soldiers!
The Elymais are uniting their thoughts in soon to be presented proposal In order to guide our great Republic into a new golden era!
As for now, if the great Mago nomination needs a someone to second, then Let me be the one who seconds it!
Strategic proposal 1.4 – Peace with Epirus provided an payment for troubles caused of at least 5.000 (10.000 is better) and Cartogaphy information.
Stratecgic Proposal 1.5 – Disband militias everywhere there are more than one detachment present to liberate cash that can be better used elsewhere.
Strategic Proposal 1.6 – Prepare Karalis, Bocchoris, Lepki, Gader and Alalia to receive ports as they need a land clearance to start trading in large scale.
Strategic Proposal 1.7 – Allow our mightiest Governor to build a better port at Lilibeo to increase our trade value.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
This is a fine and noble Senator who addresses us!
If Lilibeo should house minds of such intelligence and wisdom, then let us all be most supportive.
Sicily, it is apparent, is the centre of our military interests.
And surely the government of this province will be purely obliged to motivate their people onto the offensive.
Also, I proudly accept on behalf of my province, that Lepki would be given allowance for the necessary funds in creating greater sea trade.
We will have ships sailing from as far as Bithynia to offer us their goods!
Let us be given clearance for ports, and later, larger docks, and our desire for a wealthier community will be sated!
So too should the other more remote cavities of our State should recieve similar treatment, I agree with all economical statements made by this man of Lilibeo!
I do acknowledge and praise you, Senator, for your efforts toward my province.
But I exert further than yourself, again in the name of Lepki that our province is given priority in efforts of construction.
For Sicily, as I have said, is the centre of our focus in conquest, therefore it is not construction that will be most idealogical immediately!
I applaud also, Senator, that you advise truce, and not unprovoked conflict.
However, Pyrrhus of Epeiros will accept no such deal.
He is a leader beset by enemies, with no allies or even clients to aid him in his constant wars.
This is the fate of our nation, should we become so breathless as to be named warmongerers!
Let us create a peace with his Illyrians, but we need not ask any great price.
Should we take Sicily as a whole for our own benefit, these people will be our neighbours!
And may there come a time, when either we will ally with them against other powers? Or perhaps with other powers against them.
All options of diplomacy should be left open, and we should not scorn anyone with demanded ransoms until we are sure of our future.
As for the current levies, I have spoken and proposed already on places where I consider new recruitments most necessary.
I think also, if possible, that Lepki, Ippone and Bocchoris should be reduced in garrison, that this may be done only with total assurance and safety is best.
For the three provinces I have mentioned are in our current status, very secure.
I must allow others to propose and speak, but before I do, this must be said:
Proposal 1.8
A small company of levies should be constructed by the cities of Kart-Hadast, Attiqa and Adrumeto, that can be kept between these three provinces.
The company should consist of a medium number of light troops that can be sent immediately and cheaply to counter and independent threat that may appear from Numidia or Mauretania.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*Bomikar, Governor of Adrumeto, addresses those that have arrived*
I bring welcome to my brothers of this almighty council and I see much has already been discussed. Since much of what my mind has been pondering this last few months on what to propose, many of my finest ideas on what should be accomplished has been stated. Even though i do enjoy the sound of war and the province south of Ippone looks very inviting, a long war against the natives would drain our treasury.
I agree with Governor Hanno and his proposal 1.8 but before we disband any troops we must make sure that the area is secure and safe from the eyes of our enemies. I also support the ideas that Sicily should be our only focus on any military conquest and we should use our strong forces in Sicily to take Syrakousai. If our council thinks it could be done with out the elephants then i say disband them, even though i would love to see them trample the vile and ugly Greeks*laughs*.
Now onto thoughts of our economy, I second proposal 1.1. A mighty fleet is not needed in our current state so this will really help cut down on our expenditures. As for which province should get priority building, it should be the one who needs financial help the most. So let us survey our wonderful lands and see what would benefit us most for the cost!
With that being said i have never been one of many words so i leave you with those thoughts and...
Strategic Proposal 1.10- Along the lines of proposal 1.8 i say that roads be built in as many provinces as possible as this will allow the forces in proposal 1.8 to better defend out homeland from any threats that do come!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Noble ones, I had my spare of your patience and attention, now, humbly ask just a little more of you!
Pyrrhus is surrounded by enemies, even within what he calls his “people” he knows he have enemies! Was not Syrakousai that led the effort to invite Pyrrhus out of the island?
He may accept any proposal Karthadast offers provided it is disguised of an equal opportunity of profit, maps for maps, trade and cease fire for gold!
I may insist in the reparation terms as stated before since the money provided can allow us many initial investiments in the economical recuperation! And if we are to make such diplomatic endeavor we may need to keep another fleet of Pentekorai to guarantee that our diplomatic mission arrives in Epirote territory. Besides, keeping two fleets f pentekorai should be enough to disencourage pirate’s raids against our shores, do not forget the pirates sice thay never forget any of us!
As for recruitment, please, let me share my knowledge acquired in war against Greeks and Sikelians, the militia unit, composed of our own people lacks training , lacks good armor, lacks instinct to kill, lacks order to go to battle!
One Dorkim lubim-Ponnim Mookdamin costs to keep almost the same we spend with one militias for the double of utility! Yes, their training is costly, but their efficiency repays the investment with interests! I agree to raise a new army but we need real soldiers for this army, not citizens!
Consider well what do you recruit and you will need less recruiting ! Consider that Bocchoris, Karali and Alalia are in fantastic position and state. They are not in danger of invasions, have no real threats near them and the peace and order is kept even without the presence of our military, they could be disbanded and the city, even without a nominated governor in case of Alalia, would not rebel.
That said, we could use one of Bocchoris army to reinforce Mastia and help keeping our Iberians holdings safe. This action, together with roads connecting Mastia to all villages, settlements, until Gader would help increase trading and defense possibilities.
About attacking Syrakousai, … they have already proved to be a tremendous foe all over the centuries.
Let us not haste, let us get prepared before we call Hieron to the battle field, let us build an army and give it experience before sending them to such an important task.
The city itself is very well defended and has plenty of allies inside and outside the Island, Elephants can be kept or can be disbanded since their use is better at open battles than in sieges, especially against walls so thick as Syrakousais ones.
I would not advice attacking the city with elephants just as well as I would not advice to attack the city before rebuilding our economics which may, and will take, at least years to happen.
To end my discuss and allow other to give their contribution I must emphasize that if we are going t war it is p to this senate t build forces to better protect our homeland, agreeing with as Hano the Wise is inevitable, I would go along with him and even further asking us to nominate a magistrate responsible to command the armies of Karthadastim against any enemy insane enough to dare attack us ! This would guarantee that the best man will be in the leading position of our defenses
Strategic Proposal 1.11 – Elect a general (the magistrate) who shares the Sopets term or allow the Sophet to nominate one in times of urge need
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Dear members of our great councill. I ask of you that you hear me out, for I have urgent matters of a personal nature to wich I must attend, as time is of the essence.
I agree with the noble senator of Lilibeo on most of the things he has wisely spoken before us today. However, there are certain measures that have been proposed by him, as well as others, with whom I cannot agree.
I feel that now is not the time to start raising a fresh army, since the vast amounts of money that would be spend would by far exceed the possible benefits of such a measure at this point. Our current standing army is very large as it is. Therefore, I strongly agree with the proposal 1.5 to disband much of our citizen militia, especially in my home town Alalia. Maintaining them costs us a significant amount of our local treasurie, but far more imporant is the fact that they do not take part in the process of builiding our local economy. Therefor, allowing these men to return home to their families would serve us greatly.
Our great fleet rules the waters close to our home, with no forseeable enemy. The only fleet that finds itself a long way from any worthy port is the one stationed near my beautyfull island. Keeping only this fleet as both a means of transporting our troops as as a buffer towards any possible romani invasion or barbarian raids would greatly lift the heavy burden placed upon our economy by maintaining our fleets.
Strategic Proposal 1.12
The fleet near Alalia should be the only one not disbanded with the first turn
Also, since our provinces are so distant and many not linked directly by land to each other, ensuring safe heavens for our sea-merchants in case of storms and facilities for larger ships to haul cargo from the distant corners of our nation should be one of our most urgent needs.
Strategic Proposal 1.13
Constructing civilian ports where the local terrain allows it should have priority over all but the most urgent of needs, especially over roads
I would now like to point out to you, o distinguished members of the councill, sons of the greatest families in our nations history, the vital strategic importance held by the island of Corsica. It is our most northly outpost, perfectly situated to sustain both small-scale attacks and large invasions all across the area. Should the warlike people of the north go to war against us, they would have to muster their forces to confront us in Sicilly, leaving their very homeland exposed to a full scale attack or even a raid launched from our base in Alalia. Since the fleet would guarantee the safety of my peoples island, there would be no need to raise a large garrison in the near future. Instead, ensuring low taxes, a stable governance and a general welfare would encourage growth. This period of peace can be thus used to construct ample military facilities on the island, allowing us to support and supply with fresh troops any offensives and subsequent defensive actions for the entire region
Strategic proposal 1.14
Encourage growth in Alalia and build up military facilities to support future operations
I also think that attacking the people of Siracuse is a mistake. Instead, I think we should concentrate of bringing the full benefits of our civilisation on the opressed and savage people of Africa. The army currently in Sicilly could support this action, as there is no immediate threat towards the region it curently defends.
Strategic proposal 1.15
Concentrate all currently availible offensive forces on taking north-west Africa asap
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Govenors, Senators
I am not a man of flowery words, but one who speaks his mind. I may have been sent to this ugly little island for my past doings but it won't contain me for long. Kart-Hadast is on the rise and soon no one can eclipse our glory. But we cannot rule the lands around the mediterranian with brave words alone.
Strategic proposal 1.16
I strongly suggest that we defend ourselves. From what you may ask, why from the uppstarts and rebels and foreign armies that seek to destroy us. Therefore I propose the building of walls. Walls in Bocchoris, Alalia, Karali and Ippone. That will buy us time if those cities are badly defended to relieve the siege
Strategic proposal 1.17
Why do we have peasants and lowly citizen? To tax them of course! Let's put taxes on everything, salt, spices, ivory, you name it and we'll tax it.
Therefore I propose we raise taxes all over our glorious empire. I am willing to pay more taxes for the glory of the empire.
I agree with senator Ag3nt_Magnum on his strategic proposal 1.15, I think we should concentrate our military might on subduing Africa and put it's people under our iron heel. After consolidating Africa and conquering those blasted Numidans we can move on to the real threats to our power.
Roma must be destroyed
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Hello again to my council members i come back to speak to you since i have recently received information that has peaked my interest in different areas. The two settlements to the west, Masaesyli and Maurisi, both have trade docks established within them. I know before i was in support for military action in sicily but before even that we should move to take these two towns first! It would obviously provide us with more funds for our great nation, but even more importantly we would have the entire northern cost under our control. I stress again that i am not in favor of immediate military action unless we can support it, but if we can these two settlements would benefit us more then the one settlement in Sicily. This goes in perfect line with proposal 1.14, but again only when we can support the war effort.
I also stress again that we must build roads in the provinces that don't have them and with that i second proposal 1.12. Ports and roads would do well to get our economy off to a great start! One last thing my council members is to listen to senator nightstar and tax as high as we can...AS LONG AS our citizens are content!
*steps down awaiting others to speak again*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
An unkown senator from the city of Adrumeto stands up and addresses the council
Noble Senators of Our Most Illustrious City of Carthage lend me your ears. I am only a lowly senator of our great nation but I have a vision of greater future for our nation. Governor Bomilkar has just informed us of something that would be a great financial boon to our Fair nation of carthage.I know many senators will probably say that we need to concentrate our forces in sicily but hear me out. If we were to take these to settlements we would gain to trade ports for free. And do not worry about war debts. The amount of income gained from those to ports would pay for the debts. Because of these reasons I fully support Governor Bomilkar and I hereby support these three proposals from the Senator of Alalia. 1.12 1.13 1.14.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*The 22 year old man Hamalcar stands and walks to the podium*
Good day to you all, I am sorry for my prolonged silence, but I am astonished by the lack of support for a campaign in Sicily.
Do you not know of the wealth of that city? the splendor? It is almost a rival to Kart-Hadast itself! It has a large port, with access to trade all across the Mediterranean, it is one of the focal points of sea trade! It is one of the richest states, we Must seize it. It appears there may be a lack of confidence in my tactical and strategic ability as a commander in this council hall, yes I have suffered defeats before in Sicily but we cannot let this pass us by, their armies are weakened from our past campaigns in Sicily, we must pounce upon the gazelle lest it gets away and we starve.
You are also mistaken, we need not change our military focus towards north Africa yet, we control the most profitable portion of north Africa, moving inland would do little but to secure our southern and western border, a just and well thought out move to say the least, but it is not a major priority, trust my strategic judgement, Sicily is ours for the taking, like a ripe olive dripping with the morning dew, it will provide us with ample gold to supply other campaigns elsewhere afterwards, moreso then the conquest of some random settlement in the middle of the Sahara.
Strategic proposal 1.18: I must requesition the forces from Atiqa, along with one company of Numidian Cavalry from Kart-Hadast itself, to be sent on a voyage to sicily to bolster my forces there, before they sail though, I ask that we train one company of Dorki Leebi-Feenikim Mookdamim (Liby-Phoecians) in Aqita or Kart-Hadast to be sent along with them, to ensure victory.
Strategic proposal 1.19: I also ask that my elephants be kept in our service until at least after I have Syracusai, If the senate forbids my march upon Messana, then I shall bring up another proposal that shall wait until that time.
Do not be foolhardy enough to believe that the large sum of lands we may gain from conquest in Africa would mean a profit for Kart-Hadast.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*the Governor of Kart-Hadast rises, and takes his place at the podium*
Fellow council-members, I am pleased to see that so much good work will undoubtedly be done over the next two years.
I am of the opinion that we should strike hard in Sicilia with Hamalcar's forces, once the banners of Qarthadastim fly over the gates of Syrakousai, once Hamalcar sits in the Palace of Heiron, once the Greeks are our slaves, we shall recall are army from Sicilia, bring in a garrison force of loyal citizens, and then we shall take on the Numidians with our experienced Sicilian Corps.
Thus I shall make my next proposition
Strategic Proposal 1.20 - The war with Syrakousai must be our first priority. Furthermore, the city must be in Qarthadastim hands before the end of the next Shophet's term.
I also respect the wishes of all senators to keep their respective territories safe, but I tell you now that Iberia should recieve whatever reinforcements Hamalcar can do without.
Thus, my next official proposal:
Strategic Proposal 1.21 - Iberia must recieve all reinforcements Hamalcar does not need in the war with Syrakousai.
And, our wise senator from Alalia is correct that his island may very well be a good jumping point to Roma, although I think the real way to Latium is through Southern Italia. If we take Rhegion and Taras in quick succession, the SPQR will find it's heartland threatened. If Capua falls, Roma is within a season's march.
I will agree to upgrade Alalia, but it is hardly high on our list of priorities in my opinion. We would be better served spending our resources in Iberia.
I must disagree that Admiral Danel is the wisest choice, as his fleet is rather new, and they have little experience. Admiral Thero commands a fleet of some 52 warships, all much more experienced than our fleet stationed near Corsica.
Thus, my next proposal is as follows:
Strategic Proposal 1.22 - Admiral Thero will be allowed to retain command over a fleet of 26 of our finest warships. All other fleets will be disbanded.
Granted, the fleet near Alalia will take some six - nine months to reach port, so I must admit I am on the fence when it comes to this, but I feel the more experienced men under Admiral Thero's command will better serve to ferry troops between Sicilia and the mainland.
It is also a very long and dangerous journey to Mastia by sea, and experienced sailors will be required to ensure that Hasdrubal's reinforcements arrive safely.
I leave you to dwell on these, and invite all opinions. I am interested in hearing from the Governors from the lands which are so hotly debated. North Africa is well represented here. Has Hasdrubal not arrived?
*the Governor of Kart-Hadast takes his seat, bewildered by the apparent lack of governor concern*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
I stand once again before you to officially announce my desire to be elected Sophet. I also want to make a statement regarding military action since we have two strong sides of where to go. I have talked about sicily and i have mentioned Africa. To me, both options seem very viable as of now i am split in the matter i await more talk on the subject.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
If i may interrupt, I would like to also announce at this time my running for Shophet.
I am glad at least a few men are wise enough to see the worth of Syracusai, the money it shall bring into our empire would be worth 2, or even 3 provinces in southern North Africa.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
After contemplating where our military should go I agree with Halmacar and Mago on taking the southern city of scilly. Also i think that our most experienced navy should be the one to stay afloat. I hope the rest of the council shall grant Halmacar what he needs in the endeavor since it was my gut instinct from the start! We must smash the Greeks out of that city and show them that they better not move against us. Because if they do they will suffer! Plus the spoils of taking that city are too great to ignore. I beseech the entire council to vote yes on proposal 1.20! We must also show the vile Romans that we mean business, how much i do detest Rome! Let us soon rally for Halmacar to take southern sicily!!!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boru
After contemplating where our military should go I agree with Halmacar and Mago on taking the southern city of scilly. Also i think that our most experienced navy should be the one to stay afloat. I hope the rest of the council shall grant Halmacar what he needs in the endeavor since it was my gut instinct from the start! We must smash the Greeks out of that city and show them that they better not move against us. Because if they do they will suffer! Plus the spoils of taking that city are too great to ignore. I beseech the entire council to vote yes on proposal 1.20! We must also show the vile Romans that we mean business, how much i do detest Rome! Let us soon rally for Halmacar to take southern sicily!!!
I completely agree on with these proposals too.The greek scum in sicily have defied as for too long!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
What proposals do you support Senator?
Do you briskly stand, mutter to yourself and be seated again in my absence also?
Elaborate yourself, I know not even from what shore of our country you are come!
What has provoked Carthage to persecute against Rome?
I but mention the city within my walks in Kart-Hadast and the people here cannot save themselves from angered, insulting barks against their state!
If you all do thirst for war against these Roman men so readily, then why do you ask to reduce the defenses that neighbour them?
If we dismiss the garrisons of Corsica, and declare war on the republic of Rome, then are we not stupidly prone to a counter attack on Sardinia?
The province of Lepki does fully rejoice and support in any war conducted within the borders of Sicily.
War with the Iberian people, war with Rome, war with Numidia, is a senseless proceeding.
I was told that the manner of things were sedate here, and the council did linger upon items before proposing another, or censuring it.
But you are mostly here, in total oblivion to our economic status, and demanding war with whatever corner of our dominance you reside in.
Did we create this empire with the attitude of the savages we now reign over?
We are a people of wealthy trade and of refined culture, and yet if any were to stoop here to preside over our deliberations - it would appear that we all asked for conquest of the Earth itself!
No! Lepki will support no war except that which is necessary, and the only war that is necessary is that which invites us within Sicily.
The troops there, Hamalcar, will suffice for all engagements.
And when you are supping behind the walls of Syrakusai, then you will if necessary, by your conquest, purchase levies from Africa.
So it is generally agreed by all that Sicily is at least a domain which we must control absolutely.
Therefore we have the regiments assembled already which can come half-way to completing this task.
And we will, by necessity, because of your nonsensical aggression against Rome, keep and even strengthen our garrisons in Sardinia and Corsica.
And we will reduce those of Bocchoris, Ippone, and my own Lepki.
The towns of Iberia, as I have shown, should be not a battlefield, but a requirement for more levies.
Lastly, I think that by creating the company of levies I have proposed, we will counter any unexpected threat in Africa, and can suffice Gisgo's selfish requests for war in the homeland in addition.
When we find confidence in such a company, we may, I think, recruit it further - so that we have a field army in defense of our Africa!
These are our military issues, and they are many, perhaps too numerous!
So do not add to them for your own personal cravings, let us find more importance in civil matters.
We have been chosen here by the Carthaginians to lead them in all directions and circumstances - but do not make all directions a warpath and all circumstances a battle!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*A senator stands up to speak*
Fellow senators and countrymen of Karthadastim you have spoken wise in these meetings.Know that I wholly support Hamalcar in his plans of conquest of the Greek scourge in Syrakousai.The city lies waiting to be opened like a clam with a valuable pearl.Anything and everthing must be done to capture the city to gain its riches and increase our foothold on the island,in case of future conflict with the Romanii.
However,we are not just a nation of warmongers.Karthadastim is also one of traders and so we should act accordingly and increase our number of trade ports.Along with increasing our foreign trade,roads should be built in the provices that need them so as to keep the veins of trade clear and open for our merchants.As for the fleets,I support the propasal of disbanding all but those of our most experienced captains,which I believe is Admiral Thero.
Know then,my last point of speech deals with these questions concerning Iberia.In my view we should hold off on any expansive plans in these lands and focus on defense and building up the lands we already have there.Going on the warpath would just distract our resources from Sicily,and potentially the more threatening Romanii.
*sits back down*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
The Governor from Lepki speaks good words. Clean words.
The words of a man who is frightened by the very lions he keeps along his bedside!!
I will not support complacence in Iberia!! The tribes must be brought under the control of the Qarthadastim!!
*Mago glares at Hanno, eagerly awaiting the Governors response, as sweat clearly forms over his brow*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Then with what would you cast us into a feud with the Iberian tribes, Mago?
Is there really a sensible reason for the conducting of a war in this region?
Or do you simply want a new breed of slaves to stand at the entrance to your palace and giggle at your pathetic jokes?
Like many others here Mago you have an interest in a war of your own personal belief.
But we are not here to celebrate or indulge our own personal beliefs!
We are here together to furnish one belief - those of the Carthaginian people!
Therefore if you all would have war in all lands, then let Mago take the west into a war with Iberia, let him call it West Carthago, let Hamilcar take Sicily for himself and rule it alone, and I shall take a war against the Ptolemaic dynasty and call myself the Eastern Kingdom of Lepki!
Is this the future you want for us Mago?
For we are already this divided and it is through greed that this is done, if you savour the taste of our great empire, and wish it to grow - may you all stop this frivolous, bloodthirsty attitude immediately!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
I agree with Mago, but only after we have secured the island of Sicily and have convinced the people to the west of us in africa to join our empire, and when we have expanded at least a bit inland can we focus on iberia.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*Mago stands to address Hanno*
My dear governor from the east, you fail to see that we have reports of a Turdetanian army numbering over 1000 men encroaching on the lands near Gader.
I would also like to point out that I am not endorsing war in North Africa, nor have I made any proposals which directly affect my state.
I am simply well aware that we need the precious metals which are now in danger of being siezed by a large field army of angry natives!!
Will you let the empire forfeit such resources without a second thought, while you speak of economic upgrades in your own state?
No, dear sir, it is not I who have endeavored war for personal reasons....all of my proposals thus far have affected the empire as a whole.
May I remind you that it was you that thought your beloved Lepki and the deserts surrounding it recieve top priority for economic upgrades.
No, dear sir, I wish to be the anchor which this empire is tied to, and I will never make a decision which adversely affects another part of our realm!!
*Mago sits down, slightly shaken from the fierce debate, but ready to defend his position to the end*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Its strange that you don't know me,oh great Hanno,Im the senator from your city of Lepki.I completely agree on Strategic Proposal 1.3 ,I think the proposal strategic 1.1 is great.Strategic proposal 1.16 makes sense too,and i vote on all these proposals.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
My dear Hanno i am sorry if my speech to rally our wondrous council disheartened you, well i am sorry but i stand by my word to take down southern sicily and was only pointing out that Rome shall see our might. This may make them think twice about moving into sicily. I have no intentions to start a way with Rome anytime soon and I do hate those the rotten dogs! Also leaving our gold mine in jeopardy is not a very smart move either. I stand with Mago on this one...I have also made many suggestions in regards to our trade and economy the better our lands! So before you say that i want to start a war with Rome find out what i am all about!
*pauses to think*
My fellow councilors i say to you let us take southern sicily, a grand gem of wealth from the backwards greeks, and fortify our holdings in Iberia. From there we can make choices regarding other military moves! But if we do stand by and do nothing i fear we will lose more on our western front then we anticipate! Lets look at every angle my brothers instead of just focus on econ or military...a strong combination of both will prevail!
*sits down with a stern gaze*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Noble ones, allow myself to analyze all propositions I have not made and pardon me for I have made proposals that really need a constitutional approach like they were simple strategic ones, it happens that my anxiety to contribute and my debuting in the political arena have led me to a misjudgment.
However, misjudging is not a mistake of my own; it is a mistake of every one that defends war before our treasury can even breathe from the last one!
If war with Sirakousai is what this senate judges fair, though against it, as a member of the sacred band of Astarte I shall bring death and destruction to those Greeks under the very noble and wise lead of my Great Governor and competent General Hamalcar. Therefore, if this is to be give him the army he needs to make it so! If you support the war against Syrakousai you support the needed army complements and the maintenance of the experienced fleet of Admiral Thero!
Those who support both may be asked to tell us, the fellow senators, from where the money will be raised? How will we pay for this expedition? After we enter Syrakousai, which I know we will if great Hamalcar have the reinforcements he asked, will we put all inhabitants to swords and appropriate of their possessions in order to pay for the war? Making slave alone will not guarantee all necessary money!
Those of you who whishes war against Numidians and their keen, beware… we have seen the sand guerrilla before and those ports grant us nothing that could not be granted by proposal 1.6 (land clear and create ports in several cities), have we become this, thieves as the Greeks? Too lazy to build our riches by labor? Too greed to wait our labor give us fruits?
I can second no war for now… because I am a merchant and a son of a merchant and I still remember that it was trade, not war that raised the republic! I ask patience of you!
Consider that raising the necessary army will take as long as months, shipping them to Sicily will be dangerous (because of threacherous waters and greek fleets) will require time and the Campaing is set to end in a eight seasons time and will see that this war effort will be conduced with a haste that does not match with the grandiosity off the objective.
As far as my experience says, more time will be needed for fighting Syrakousai is Fighting all its allies and war with haste is a defeat we will taste!
I shall fight any war this noble council decides but it is in economical growth the victory resides!
Gentleman, second the economical proposals
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*Carthalo rises to speak*
I agree with all proposals thus far merchant-princes and aristocrats of mighty Kart-hadast... especially those concerned with the strengthening of Karali. The African mainland should be well subdued, but I feel Karali will soon become very important. We have no rivals in Iberia, and Sicily we can content for at our leisure, but Roma is uniting Italy and we know they are men who do not value treaties and will never surrender to us when they are strong. After the consolidation of Africa I propose the strengthening of Corsica and Sardinia so that Karali may join Kart-Hadast in her righteous and inevitable future war against Roma. I have no specific proposals, for the great men here have seen to it that the nation's interests are well met. However when our immediate concerns have been relieved, I feel the developement of Karali would be pertinent.
Thank you.
*sits*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Great Carthalo speaks from a land that I know well, a land rich that can became properous since there we can build ports, markets and especially, mines that will finance our evolution!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*stands up forcefully and glares over the assembly*
Am I adressing blubbering fools and Idiots? Given Gisgo's youth I understand that he doesn't realise the danger he's in. At the very steps of Ippone the Numidians wait like hawks poised to strike, Ippone has no walls, no garrison to speak of and I have heard that the fearsome raider Radbarzin and his host of numidian raiders plague the land.
Who knows? Maybe Ippone is the next target for him.
I say we subdue Kirtan and do away with the Numedians, after that you can cast your greedy eyes on the fair city of Syrakusai. I am not swayed by Hamalcars words...I just thinks he wants a bigger house.
And Roma must be destroyed.
*fuming, the exiled statesman that hails from Bocchoris sits down again*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Dont be absurd fool, I agree Ippone needs to construct a form of walls, but Syracusai should be our main military target, we shall avenge the sacred band!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Gentlemen, please!!
This is a respectable house and I fear in-fighting may take the attention away from the issues at hand.
Yes, a victory in our war with Syrakousai would do much to benefit the empire, and Hamalcar's house.
I feel Ippone would do well to build a barricade, but I disagree that our islands are in any real danger. The Romani are have a fairly weak navy, raised from merchant ships and nothing more.
I will amend my previous proposal.
The annexation of Syrakousai need not be completed within 8 seasons, but I do feel it is priority #1 after we secure our frontiers.
Iberia being a close #2 as far as I am concerned.
The precious metals in the mountains of Turdetania will do much to fuel our growth.
Many speak of economic growth, but I feel a quick and violent war against Syrakousai, followed by a period of consolidation will do well to establish us as the economic masters of the western Mediterranean.
*Mago sits down, and looks around the room, waiting for someone to contest him*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
These cordial lashes and insults are not warranted!
You will give reason to your resentment of other men or you will not have the proofs to show it.
Now that I have at least, by a Senator, been given the name of the Numidian city the province of Ippone wishes to attack, there may be some progression in Gisgo's requests.
Though I think that some common filth who floated on the tide from Palmyra should not speak so ardently in the presence of superior orators!
Let alone advise us on wars in the homeland, Senator, if you wish to have any influence in the conduct of your island village - be reserved in your complaints.
Gisgo, the area you wish to joyfully crusade now has a title - Kirtan.
This may be an advisable move to our council, but you will elaborate more before any proposal will be made proper!
Tell us all here, how many regiments of levies you would require, tell us from where and with what tactic you will subdue this southern state?
Or will it suffice the that mobile garrison I myself have proposed in the name of Lepki, will be offered to your control?
For whether it does or not, the province of Lepki offers one regiment to the construction of this garrison, and we will levy our strongest men.
I think that either you will choose one of these two things, Gisgo, or you will be satisfied with constructing a palisade around the center of your province.
Your city is inhabited by the working class - so let them prove it!
Carthalo is readily willing to prepare a greater defence in Sardinia, accept his proposal and he will guard Karalis and Corsica with true zeal!
And as for Iberia, I have made a proposal, and requested - advised, that the cities and Iberian provinces should be strengthed in garrison more than any other part of our empire!
The cause I oppose, which is slyly foremost in the heart of Mago, is war with our allies in Iberia, I ask for a stronger fortification, but he asks for conflict - in addition to a war in Sicily!
Before you all fling yourselves into a Roman fight, perhaps one of our Senators, perhaps the underling from Bocchoris, should be sent to study the people that are the target of your most negligent decrees.
Lepki must be the focus of economic growth this year!
All other provinces are maddened with yearnings for war, and yet the east is ready for no such thing.
We will, if necessary, furnish a levy, either for the war in Sicily, or in the service of the garrison I have proposed.
But it is the absence of our encouragement for war, that justifies our wish to be developed as a priority.
And surely the size of our province, the productive nature of Lepki and the loyalty of it's peoples will be rewarding to the Senate's generousity!
As for this, this 'Senator' of great Lepki...
I have seen him take a stand in our city, he lavishes himself in his self-proclaimed title, and does make it well known amongst the few colleagues he does entertain.
Yet his voice withers with the tone of a broken lyre when he attempts to orate in the streets, and the men who prepare my meals are known to greater and more widespread influence in the capital than this man.
However, he is a man of Lepki, it seems, and though I do with great disdain bare the simplicity and hollowness of his speech, he hopefully makes this for the benefit of my province.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
it appears that my former statements used wrong language, I was not making official proposals and i appologize if i did use the word proposal(if i was making an official proposal i would more than likely have used the correct grammer needed).
However what i said was supposed to be a sum up of the things surrounding my city of Ippone and it's neighboring towns. there is in fact a large army citying 3 months travel from my city which is now very lightly guarded, now with my 2 unit garrison in ippone i couldt probably kill an army about 4x my size but i do not believe i will be able to do much more without the one day to be born chuck norris fighting as one of my bodyguards. I dont believe our nation would be able to field an army and reach my city before i am stampeded into the ground by the horde of enemy which sits danger close to my gates. This is my situation and you all may do what you want with it. I cannot speak for the other cities proximity to enemy cities but mine is, as i have said before, danger close.
Hanno i would also ask that you not assume things about my thinkings for the expansion of our empire
Quote:
I do not rush to be in battle with the Ptolemaioi!
as nowhere have I voiced more than a brainstorming opinon that we should travel to Ptolemaioi and certainly i did not mention such a thing to the council because the idea is as you have put rather absurd at the moment. From your flowery yet sharp criticism of many of the council members i would like to make a proposal to you Proposal hanno.1 please remove the stick from whence it hath hidden itself inside you
(After looking over the constitution a bit more I think it would be good to add the need for a seconding for anyone attempting to be nominated for shophet
Proposal 1.23 - The need for a seconding to any person who seeks to be nominated for Shophet) This has aready been done so i repent of the proposal :P
EDITED for proper old-english grammer and proposal changed
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*Calmly stands to speak*
My fellow council members in my rash rant earlier in the night i may have led people think i want all out chaos! I apologize,but here is what i think needs to be done right away...
1. Secure economy to a decent level
2. Plan a quick take over the souther city of sicily...Just the one!
3. Secure our wester iberian front...while continuing to strengthen economy!
May i end with these words..everything in moderation my brothers and we shall prevail!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
as for Hanno's request for specifics i cannot say in specific as i have no idea what kind of troops compose the army in Kirtan. I would say that i can take the city with 6 more units(preferably 2 of them being liby-phoenician or libyan spearmen), and if any governors close enough to come would like to share in the glory they are more than welcome to join in.
For the actual movements:
1. As soon as possible send me a spy to move to Kirtan to make sure it is not filled with elite soldiers and to give the opportunity that the gates to the city might be sabotaged.
2. Move the army south leaving only a very light garrison in Ippone.
3. Siege city and take it, considering I dont already have a spy in Kirtan i cant say wether a siege would be feasible with smaller walls(3-5 turns) or whether an assault would be needed. However with at least 2 units of good medium spearmen and myself to spur them on I am confident it can be taken between 10-40% casualties on our side depending on the strength and valour of the enemy troops(which can be easily and quickly found out with a spy).
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Hello,great people of Kart-Hadast,I think we should give Iberia priority,not Africa,because of the rich mines there.Iponne should be strenghtened,because I think Numidians are going to attack it soon.Great Hanno,please forgive me for my speeches,I have many projects for people Lepki,and almost no time,i have to always hurry.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Oh, our innocently brutish Gisgo..
If you wish to converse with all of us in the manner of, "Old-English", then it is suggested you should travel to wherever that etiquette hails from.
Does "Khuk Nohris" live in Old English also?
You are not an orator, and you are not a general, you propose, as a governor, nothing worthy of meritable rewards.
Here, you act in the way a hound with a collar would.
Unpredictably, when loosed into whatever territory we wished, you would either attack and kill everything you see in a voracious hunger, or you might simply flee in selfish cowardice.
Either way, your deprivation of intelligent advice means that we must carefully supervise every decision you make and either scold or praise you for your actions in the manner of training a pup.
Let this be a visible fact that the words of this Ippone canine have no foundation, and barely do they have understable sense.
Bomilkar, you are efficient and brief in these proposals, I will comment on them, but please if you become more serious or have more detail to add to their development, write them down in accordance with regulation.
We need a method of securing our economic ability, and Lepki, unthreatened, unprovoked and without great debt, can be a major factor in the development of our economy.
Syrakusai, it is a agreed by all, is the major city of Sicilia Graecus, and Hamilcar is willing to hazard a siege of this place.
We are all confident in his abilites, yet I think he needs no levies from Africa until he has taken Syrakousai.
I do not think my confidence in this is unfounded, if Hamilcar is not self-professed.
Then it is obvious here, that our western empire needs to be strengthened in fortification, the centre of our empire needs be the focus of conquest, and the eastern empire needs to be the foremost provider of the economy.
Is this last piece not desirable for it's own sake?
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*Mago stands to take his place at the podium*
I agree with the wise Governors and Senators assembled here.
I think our best course of action is as follows:
1. Secure whatever cities the senate deems at risk
2. Improve our economy, provinces in N.Africa should take full priority for building projects.
3. Syrakousai must fall. It is essential to our control of the western mediterranean.
Whatever proposals support this general plan, I will support in kind, and those which do not, will not recieve my 2 votes.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*looks rebuked*
Great Hanno, Govenors and fellow councilmen
Forgive me the harsh word I spoke earlier, but sometimes harsh words are needed to draw attention to the task at hand.
Even though I [reside in Bocchoris it is in my interest and all our interest that we think of the need of the empire before personal glory and riches. Ippone stands poorly defended, without fortification and I feel the needs of that city must be put to the forefront. What could I ask for the citizens of Bocchoris? Sun? Bah!
I think we should send most of our standing armies that laze about in the sun around Karth-Hadast and let them stick the pointy end of their spear into something. Of course I second that we should send a spy first to enlighten us about Kirta's troop strength and their strenght of fortification.
It is in my opinion that we should contend ourselves with strengthening defenses and building up economy for the next shophets term, and adding Kirta to our prospering empire, then we can start thinking about the big fish, Syrakusai.
War with the Romani is unevitable, it is only matter of time. But I don't mean that we start wars in our haste to glory
But it is unevitable that Roma must be destroyed
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Kirta is a threat with which I was somewhat unaware....I apologize for my inattentiveness, as matters in Kart-Hadast keep me occupied.
I do believe I have yet to hear from any senators from my great city. Iberia seems severely underrepresented as well. Where is the senator from Gader? The Governor and Senators of Mastia also have yet to make an appearance before us....do they not care for their lands?
With them not present, how are we expected to contend with the force of Turdetanians which sit on our border?
This council will remain in session for another 24 hours. I fear Iberia may fall by the way-side due to lack of senatorial participation.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
If they do not represent themselves we may need to take matters into our own hands. As it seems much has been said already by those who do not represent those lands. I have also taken interest in Ippone's situation and i believe that with the earlier proposal for a light defense force in northern africa we could protect it easy. Also we could take care of that threat first then move to sicily. I think both options are very possible so we could attack one or the other first. This of course is just my opinion but beyond that i think is pushing our military to much with our unstable economy. I also agree with Mago's proposal to get north african provinces building up. Which leads me to Lepki, with it being out of the way of any major conflict we should strongly consider boosting its economic output, this would be very helpful.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Your own corrupted arguments in favour of the Iberian province is sufficient as a representative of our interests in the West, Mago.
But I would have that province furnished with garrisons, however, not an army. It is not necessary, and since it would be idle if levied, such a force could be used carelessly.. or even maliciously, by those who preside in government.
My own Eastern Senator, you are forgiven!
(As you and I will ensure Lepki is surrounded with greater power than Kart-Hadast itself!)
Speak as shortly and abruptly as you wish, but speak clearly, that you may not be heard with the same woefully tired ears that hear the Moor-like throttles of Gisgo.
And think wisely of our province!
Mago, you are the only governor of Africa here who, though barbarous in affections and desires, are capable in preparation.
So you will of course, exert yourself to help me in organising this difficulty we face in the western province of Ippone.
For we have not only an unpredictable enemy but an unpredictable governor, who is, due to his damp nature, prone to thoughtless decisions.
My questions in attempting to discern whether we will send a furnished garrison or a small force, and in what number, to aid Ippone are not unreasonable, we would be best to join with our members of the capital in this and decide, with our influence, as to the exact counteractions will be enforced here.
You know what I have asked on this, so Mago, I will you to take it further in your own name.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Most noble, and most gracious Bomilkar!
You stand at the height of virtuosity, and your magnanimity is both wisely conducted and unknown to other, lesser, simplistic men!
Bomilkar, you are truthful in speaking of the economic potential that Lepki holds, and it does beg and plea to be given permission by the state to develop itself.
For we need no protection, though other provinces witness feuds with their neighbours, we do enjoy friendships with all ours!
Thank you, exclaimed and exalted governor, and do pardon that I told of Mago to be the only capable governor of Africa.
Adrumeto is contented beyond any north of Lepki, and her walls do not shield the radiance of happiness and beauty that her citizens flourish within!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Thank you my brother, i do see the positive for providing u with getting more wealth to put into our mighty nation. As for my own city when our taxes are raised the people are still very happy and i am looking to garnish about 500 some mani a month to our glorious treasury. So at this time i can see the push for our other provinces to grow in economical terms. But i do ask of you on my last statement, what do you think is a good solution to Ippone or souther sicily which i do support!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Bomilkar, I think it a waste of the resources we both procure if we were to provide two seperate field armies, we would do this only in obedience to Gisgo's pitied dreams.
I made a proposal on creating a medium force of light foot supported by a minimum number of light horse.
To serve as a garrison of Africa - this can be recruited and upgraded over the progress over our finance!
Generously I did offer the command of this garrison to our scattered Gisgo, who did ignore my question, and proceeded instead with insults and gibbered ramblings.
So, to the ignorance of his demands, I think we should provide this defence, and send it immediately to Ippone.
I do not think we should attack Kirtan unless provoked, but let us array our defence in front of this city that they may realise our readiness.
And I have spoken many times on how Sicilia Graecus may be rested from those who fortify Syrakousai.
Hamilcar is well capable, and he has a force equally exploitable for this task.
I challenge him to take Syrakousai immediately, and then, if he may do this, Lepki will send levies and no doubt all of Africa will do the same in appreciation.
With these levies, he may defend Syrakousai and test the temperance of Messana.
These are the only necessary things to be said on the subject you gave me, Bomilkar.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Governors, senators, members of our distinguished councill.
I fear we are on the path to becoming a decadent people. Many here speak of the Numidians as if they were animals who deserve nothing more then the sharp end of a spear. May I remind you, o great leaders of our people, that the numidians are men, just like any of us. Unfortunately for them, they are opressed men. I view this not as a war against the people of Numidia, but as the liberation of Numidia. The war to be is not against the people, but against the evil rulers that lead them. By controlling the area west of our core cities, we would not only save the money we would need to bolster their defenses by constructing walls, but we would also gain valuable allies and partners in trade. Movement along the coast can be hastened by a cooperation between the fleet and the army, and I feel that the young governor of Ippone is just the right man to take our glorious army as far as the pillars of Hercules or even beyond. Not for glory and conquest, but for liberty and trade. Any lands we take in north africa should be granted immediate independence.
I also feel that our offensive towards Kirtan should not be conducted in a too speedy manner. Instead, we should lay siege to their city and await the raiders that have been spotted nearby to come to their assistance. Thus we kill 3 birds with one stone. We not only defeat 2 enemy armies, but we also take the city without assaulting it's defenses. This of course works if our full force is channeled in this direction.
strategic proposal 1.24
Besiege Kirtan with a large force and await counterattack by the mobile army stationed nearby, and then destroy both in open combat
May I also remind you that it is unwise to go to war against the greeks. I fear that by doing so, we will gain the hatred of all greeks across to world. I also fear that the walls of Siracuse and it's large standing army would grind our army who's more used to open-field battles into dust. I speak this not because of the greek blood that runs trough my families veins, nor because of my of greek friends and partners across the area to the north of Alalia, but because it is the truth. I have seen the Romani, and I know what they are capable of. An alliance with as many greeks as possible is our best chance of defeating them once their inevitable attack against us commences.
What would all the other greek settlements east and north of Siracuse think of us, once we put that wonderfull city to the sword ? Will they not jump into the lap of the Romani to protect themselves from us ?
I have been, as you see, most honest with you, and I once again urge you not to attack Siracuse.
My advisors have also informed me about the debate that has been raging within the councill and about certain issues that have been adressed.
The romani are in no position to launch a naval invasion of my island, this I know well, therefore strengthening or even keeping our garrison here could be seen as foolish at best. This I guarantee with my life.
I have also been informed of members of the councill agreeing to my proposals of building up Alalia as a forward base, yet saying it is not a priority. May I remind these distinguished members that this process cannot take place over-night. It requires many years. As war with the romani is inevitable, failing to build up Alalia in time would only result in a partial or even total defeat for our people, especially if we had already antagonised every greek south of SPQR's borders.
I also fear that the representatives of Lepki have their own personal agenda in mind and not the interest of our people by so agressively trying to dominate the councill. May I ask you, o great governor of Lepki, why do you oppose the liberation of the people of Numidia ? Is it not so, that your cities own influence may grow ?
As for Iberia, I personally think that the tribes there are not yet united. Diplomacy, gold, spies and assasins could buy us time in the area. Time for the army wich would liberate Numidia to arrive in Iberia once it has completed it's task. Once it is there, justice will be enforced, those who have done wrong would pay, those who have done right would benefit.
And think not that by sending the army so far west our own land would be threatend ! Becasue by the time the romani are in a position to challange us, we would have the means to rasie a new, modern, preferably a combined carthaginian-greek army to challenge them as well as have the base in my beautifull island ready to strike even against the very gates of Roma. None of these are however possible without a strong economy and a strong naval trade.
The times I speak of may be far into the future, but not preparing ourselves for it could only lead to disaster and to the blood of thousands of our nations best sons spilled across some field not even one of our poorest peasant would die over today ! Every councill member should think of this whenever they propose some foolhardy action !!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*Mago stands to address the council yet again*
Fellow council-members, while Hanno is eloquent in speech, the fact of the matter is that he is overlord of lands which match nearly the whole of the rest of the empire. The province in which Hanno resides is by far the largest, therefore their is some merit to his proposals.
That being said, the lands surrounding Lepki aren't as fertile as the rest of the empire, and much of the state is a barren wasteland. We have little to gain from expending too many resources in this region, save perhaps a fort at our eastern border, to stall any Ptolemaic incursions. I'll leave the decision to put forth that proposal to Hanno himself, as the fort's garrison will undoubtedly come from Lepki itself.
Now that I've been made aware of the dire straits that Ippone finds itself in, I must insist that we fortify the area near Ippone with a small field army. The citizen militia currently attached to the small field army stationed near Atiqa should be sent to the city itself, and the divisions currently stationed there will be sent to reinforce the field army. I will personally guarantee two of Kart-Hadast's divisions of Iberian Skirmisher Cavalry as well. This force will be placed under Gisgo, Governor of Ippone, to defend against any incursions.
The other two Iberian Skirmisher Cavalry, and a few other divisions (mostly from Adrumeto, granted the kind governor agrees) will be sent ot Hamalcar in Sicilia.
I have not expressed this in proposal form, because I will use it as a general guideline for what I would like to do in my reign as Shophet, if I have my esteemed coleagues votes. Of course, all building and recruitment proposals approved by the council will be my first priority.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Punic Senator of Alalia, your arguments against the Senate are as flailing and insignificant as your province.
You are ignorant, though I have yet stood in front of you here and proclaimed it, that I am in full support for the military and communal development of both Sardinia and Corsica.
Yet you oppose me, and further, you accuse me!
Should you continue to thrust and stab blindly at the general gathering here, I will renounce my support of your province!
Carthalo has been deserving of my sympathies, and you shall follow his example if you expect the compassion of Lepki also.
The people of Numidia are shallow - they have no true souls!
If they did not have the intelligence to swiftly build palisades and yards, their own cattle rule supremely in terms of organisation!
They will not conduct any attack against us, I am confident, and it is a fine thing that you agree Ippone should be defended, and not at the spearhead of an assault.
I will say nothing of, and ignore what the Corsican Senator has said on the object of Syrakousai - he is outvoted, overcome and underpowered in his comments.
Hamilcar is to bring Sicilia Graecus into our empire's control.
It is agreed by all who have a noble sense.
Mago, if you would allow for coastal and docking development in Lepki, and ensure this is pursued in construction for two years, I will submit two levies of foot from my province.
In addition to this, to show my city's appreciation, I will consent to high taxes, and you will have my vote as Shophet, that you may be constant with what I have asked.
My own barren wasteland has not only attracted a great population to the coast, which begs for trade and wealth to be absorbed into our empire through the city, but the wasteland itself creates coarse, hardened folk.
These men inhabit the outlying regions of Lepki, and will be enthusiatically levied from the province in order to defend Africa.
They will travel to Ippone and further, for a small cost to our nation.
Review these things within yourself Mago, decide whilst others are speaking, and do advise me whether to support you or not in the election.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Govenors and fellow councilmen
I second Senators Ag3nt_Magnum proposal 1.24 of besieging Kirta, the people of Numida should be brought under our control with extreme prejudice and therefore guarantee the safety of Ippone and gaining us lands and levies.
After that we can think of Syrakusai. The candidate for shophet that is in agreeance with this strategic proposal shall have my vote.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Greetings.
I vote we should take Iberia first.
Syrakousai will be hard to take. This is a fact. Their defenders not only have large stone walls, but also are of strong heart and will not give up easily. To take Syrakousai will require a large amout of men, which I feel would be better used in other places.
In addition, Greece will not like our aggression towards their allies. They may decide to cut off trade links to us, and we are a nation built upon trade. Without the trade money, we will be hard pressed to requisition additional troops, and to fund our expansive city projects.
Iberia is a land of opportunity. It is filled with squabbling tribes, each of which fight each other constantly. In addition, there is a new threat: the Lusotanni. If we give these people a chance to build up, our decision may prove to be costly later.
However, this is just my two shekels worth. If you decide to attack Syrakousai, then I will fully support it. However, do not act rashly; we need to keep the money flowing in.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Then with a meek sentence you do damn the Iberian Peninsula to be swiftly brought under control.
Let us lend our strength, and our future, to this Senator, and where would it lead Carthage?
He would have us ignore Sicily, and considers the conquest of an entire country of various people and tribes an easier task that the acquisiton of one city-state!
This man is late to counsel his advice, procures it with no grounds and alone censures the one motion of our Senate that we all do agree upon.
While he gives attention to no other matter in our empire.
And yet, Mago, he is one of your Senators who resides here in Kart-Hadast - and has no affection for his own capital!
Senator of of our Capital, you have beneath you an influential seat, and many others would claim it.
Perhaps your words should be worth more than two shekels if you want to keep this position, and not find yourself on Palmyra, or even worse, within Ippone.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*pezhetairoi stands to speak*
Honoured governors and senators of the City, if I may speak, please, listen to what I have to say, for I am sure they are not lacking in consideration.
*nods to Hanno*
What mean you, governor Hanno, is Ippone a very bad place to be? You make it sound as if my hometown is a midden-heap for unwanted Tsorim senators. What of your city, then, Ba'al-forsaken as it is, out in the middle of nowhere?
You speak well, honoured Hanno. For a man of a military background--see, you came this morning to the Council in armour, and still have it just outside the door!--you speak well indeed, but harsh! Harsh indeed are your words! Will you not moderate them, and stop wetting our floor with your spittle as you bite off your words in the military manner?
It is true that the Syrakousioi are but one citystate, but they are a united citystate. Need I remind the Council seated here of what happened when the Persians attacked Athens the first time? Need I remind you of the result of Marathon? And that was only one citystate. In the second war to all intents and purposes it was only two citystates against more than double the odds, and still again they prevailed. Have our defeats at the hands of the united Syrakousians taught us nothing? To encompass their defeat would require strength and unity and preparation to overwhelm even their unity. It would not do us well now, in this weak state, to contemplate attacking strong Syrakousiai again. Let us give their walls time to crack a little more from age and weeds between the stone blocks before we attack.
Well I am aware of the defeats and insults forced, nay, inflicted upon us, by the Syrakousioi, snug in their big city of stone walls and strong men with stout spears. My own ancestors fought against them, and more than one has met his death on a Syrakousian spearpoint, as he tore out his killer's throat or heart with spear or sword and a battlecry on his lips. Well I know the price we have paid!
But we have waited so long, what are a few seasons more? Our revenge against them shall be all the swifter and the more frightening then, coming as it does out of the blue, a bolt out of the clear sky, as final as if it had been thrown by their Zeus.
More important it is, I say, that we should take the south of Hispania, where we know are many rich mines of gold and silver. Money is the key to warring without worry, and money we do not now have. Where better than Hispania, to get the treasures we need to hire men and hammer out weapons of war? How shall we support our mighty war elephants' diets without the gold to buy their fodder? The Turdetani marauding near Gader will need dealing with; it is clear a powerful army will be needed to deal with them. Why let this army go to waste thereafter, and never use it more? Better we should turn it against the divided tribes of Hispania, carve ourselves a rich land beholden to the Shophet and the Council, and pacify it, that we may better use its resources on other fronts!
Hence, I vote that we should concentrate our efforts in Hispania, building up a force there capable of dealing with the Turdetani, then taking the offensive against the Turdetani and other rebellious peoples north of our coastal strip!
But there must be a limit, and I move that any conquest we make go no further north than the towns of Baikor and Arse, lest we bite off more than we can swallow at one go. Also, we must on no circumstances allow our armies to draw near our border with the Lusotana, our allies, or their forces, for they are quick to anger and a force to be reckoned with, if we had to fight them on what is their home ground.
After getting a steady influx of precious metal from Spain, then shall we pound the proud Syrakousian walls down, raze it to the ground, and enslave its people! Only then, with our strength in money, shall we be able to show them what it means to be faced by overwhelming odds.
Hence, I am for proposal 1.21, and of necessity I must be against 1.20. If the Syrakousians do not bother us, I say we do not bother them also until our foundations are secure, and we have gotten a firm financial stance from which to throw a knockout punch.
And yet, let it not be said that I am from Ippone and care not for my own city. I can see the desert stretching to the south from the roof of my mansion in the city, and fear for the day when the fearsome Numidians, with their cavalry of the unpronounceable name and their men in rags who rain death with their javelins, will come pouring across those rocks at my beloved city.
I, too, most definitely want to see my city walled, even if it is only with wood, to permit it to endure somewhat until help comes against the Numidians. But I am not for war with the Numidians. If death is to be sought, let them seek it on our soil, and not us on theirs. Their kingdom is large but not as prosperous as Hispania can be to us. They can wait. Let us have walls, and let us build more, and the day will come when governor Hanno will himself wish he was of Ippone, fair city that it is and will be! Hence my vote, when the time comes, will be against proposal 1.23.
If Numidia attacks, we can safely rely on our fleet, which rules the seas, to bring some battalions from Spain or Sicily to fight a quick slashing campaign against the Numidians, then return to their theatres. But for that we need walls! Hence I vote for proposal 1.15.
Ippone, speaking from my intimate knowledge of my city, is not yet ready to become a base for the taking of Mauretania, as it must become if Mauretania eventually becomes a target. As the honoured Council will have noticed, we do not even have a half-decent wall, much less say barracks and stables, or the population to support and serve an army operating still further away to the west! Mauretania must wait, and anyhow, it is more trouble than it is worth. Fertile, but it has not very much else to offer in terms of profit, which must be our priority here. Conquest for conquest's sake can come later. I reject 1.14, for it is impractical in the face of all the other threats facing us.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*senator Magnum stands to speak*
Governor Hanno, first I would like to thank you for supporting my proposal regarding future development of my island. This shows that your judgement can at times be rational. However, I disagree with your attitude towards the senate. How dare you directly insult honorable councill members, the best men our nation has to offer ? And how dare you insult cities containing thousands of our nations citizens, such as Ippone ? And how dare you condition military assistance given to our core army ? How dare you ask for economic benefits in return for military support ? This could even be considered treasonos ! May I remind you that Lepki's current garrison is part of our nations army, and not your own personal bodyguard, to do with as you please !
I do not say that your requests are not rational, but the manner with wich you hold the councill at ransom is unacceptable !
Had how dare you accuse me of speaking against the councill ? As I have shown, it is you who has done such things, trying to mask it beneath fine words adressed to Mago, whom I also support, yet not as vocaly as you, and insults to everyone else. I will not base my career on kind words adressed to men of power, but always on speaking the truth. As my father before me, I will defend the councill to my dying breath and respect it's decisions, no matter what I personally think of them.
I therefor demand an apologie on your behalf.
I also think the senator of Ippone has mistaken proposal 1.15 with 1.14. As time does not allow it, I will refrain from any other comments, as I have urgent matters to attend to.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
HAHAHA a smiling just arrived Hasdrubal comes from behind a stone pilar
Hear yourself all talk about taking this wanted that HAHA
We AL MOST BROKE my friends and war and especially war many kilometers over sea will cost money a lot of money
I suggest that some of you follow the courses of military school again (shaking his head)
I left Iberia with with 3 senators we decided all to take a different route cause you all know that Iberia is NOT connected with a save passage from there to here i fear the worst of them i hope they will show up soon but i think we lost 1 or 2 or maybe all 3 of them myself barely survived the journey
There should be done something about that or you may play as you like hide and seek in our own backyard???
this should be OUR number one concern how can anybody talk about taking Syrakousai? for what... pride??? When in the backyard of his homeland rebels rule the place!!!!
Let's say we decide to take Syrakousai what would the Romani say...i will bet you they will take action maybe not right away but they shall think something like so they try to expand in our direction that's not ok
From the Romani we get al lot of trade what gives us a good finances would you risk that in our situation ?????
My idea is to clean up our homeland territory and free the towns from those Numibian rebels
Towns like Kirtan,Siga,Lixus and Sala in Mauritania belong to us we must free them first
to have a good and stable economy before we do something else
Also i suggest to sent a diplomat to the homeland of the epeiros and stop the hostility
with them and establish trade routes with them and other factions in that area
As news from my post in Mastia there is not much to tell except for Gader there is a strong
rebel force terrorizing the province and we together (Gader and Mastia) don't have the
manpower to fight them off our lands
Thats why its's important that we have to free Mauritania so we can have quick
reinforcements and open trade routes to those towns
The area here in lusitania is full of good trade resources wich will make us quickly rich and strong and then we can talk about expansion in Northen direction
And yes give all our cities at least a wooden wall
Because we can barely pay our troops i would suggest to retrain them when possible and use them to clean our backyard
Proposal 1.25 Assemble a army with the troops from
Adrumeto: 1 unit of light cavalry
and 1 unit of Iberian light infantry
Kart-Hadast: 1 unit of Poeni citizen militia
3 units of Iberian light infantry
Atiqa: 2 units of Iberian spearman
Lilibeo: 2 units of Iberian light infantry
And merge them with the 4 units near Atiqa
And start chasing rebels and take the city's of
Kirtan,Siga,Lixus and Sala in Mauritania
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
I believe we should vote to have at least 2 plans depending on what our spies find out; if Syrakusa is too well defended it may well be in our interests to leave it be for the time being. So i propose any proposals accepted should definitely have a clause that states this in it. My thoughts at the moment no our offensive movements will now be written down using the already mentioned proposal and being made into one very large proposal. The proposal from Ippone is as follows:
Proposal 1.26 -
These will go in order of proposal number for the most part
The disbanding of most of the carthaginian fleet except the veteran fleet near Kart Hadast(Proposal 1.1). This will allow us to still move troops on and off the mainland while freeing up a large amount of money from former fleet upkeep. Along the same lines as upkeep and our financial situation i think the raises of very high taxes upon the people except where it would result in negative growth(1.16). This heavy taxing should not contiue past our first term as shophet but i think in the short run to get our economy on its feet it will be good
The first thing to be done on land would be the construction of a palisade in any regions which seem to be threatened at the moment the only two regions wihout a palisade that seem threatened are Alalia and Ippone (1.15).
Next I believe our current funds (10kmnai) should be usedin the construction of roads and land clearance in as many provinces as possible should commence(1.6 and 1.10) as roads serve two very important purposes 1. They make our armies more efficient in that they can cover more ground faster, hence needing smaller garrisoning forces in case of a siege. 2. They bring an increase in trade to the region. I believe these two purposes more than justify the cost of building roads in our provinces first.
(1.9)In the way of troops movements I would ask that the army outside of Atiqe be sent by ship along with 1 unit of libyians, 1 unit of liby-phoenicians, and one unit of experienced poeni citizen militia towars Ippone. This force will then consist of 7 good infantry units plus a general and the infantry already there. This force can then be dispatched to Kirtan leaving a garrison in Ippone. With a core of the good troops from Atiqe the city should fall no problem to our superior power and intelligence. This should take no more than 1 year from when the troops arrive to when the city is taken.
In the meantime
IBERIA: I would recommend the building of an armory for foreigners to be built in Mastia(sp? the city in southeast iberia) this will enable the recruitment of iberian light infantry and iberian skirmishers who are some of if not the best skirmishers in the known world. I would also recomment the construction of roads linking the two iberian cities for faster reinforcements between the cities. This should allow our cities in Iberia to hold out against any rebel invasions until Syrakusa is secured at which time troops can be sent to Iberia in large number(1.21).
SICILY: if the homeland looks secure i would advise troops also be sent from Kart Hadast with a diplomat to sicily to help in teh campaign there.
(1.18)After Kirtan is taken the city will be sacked and the people enslaved. All but what is needed to keep the population from rebelling can be sent back to Ippone, with Kirtan now acting as a buffer allowing Ippone to grow and the troops from the battle to be sent to Sicily for use in the campaign against Syrakusa.
What say ye, good senators?
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Hanno-does your thirst for victory overcome your senses? Do you desire admiration for a brilliant battle and the reputation as a military genius more than is right or honourable?
To attempt to take Syrakousai now would be folly, when we do not have the infrastructure to support such an endeavour. We may as well pile men against the walls so that the last man can run up to the battlements over the bodies of his former companions. Maintaining such an army to take Syrakousai takes a lot of money, something we cannot spare right now when our priorities lie withing our own empire.
In addition, the insolent upstarts in the Italian peninsular may start getting ideas if we take Syrakousai. While they may be arrogant, they are worthwhile trading partners, and to lose them, as well as the Greeks, would cripple our sea trade and reduce us to mere paupers. We will need to find other sources of money, and mines in Iberia would let us do that.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Hanno, You are a fool, you know nothing of warfare if you mistakenly assume I can take the city of Syracusai with the small force I have stationed in Sicily right now.
You are all foolish to also assume the bumpkin city-state of Roma is going to take interest in our dealings with the syracusians, They are obviously busy with the remainder of Pyrrhos in Italy, and the fools had put a mercenary in charge of Rhegion, they have no cares about Sicily!
Obviously none of you have been in a battle, let alone command an army. If only you had paid more attention in school about military tactics and strategy, you would understand the strategic and moral importance of the capture of this city, not even mentioning the economic opportunities the capture of the city would provide.
The greeks pay no attention to Syracusai either, they are too busy fighting with themselves to care.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Hamalcar everyone is a fool, we are all fools of stupid jollity here from your own incomprehensible perspective!
You even call he who did argue your right to cause an offensive in Sicily, or even did stay in favour of any military weight you may hold in your province - a fool!
Like many others here you have bluntly returned my support with without warning and very violently upbraided me.
In light of this, that those who I have shielded and possessed well in Sicily do vanquish my friendship with them, I declare that I will assist no longer in Hamalcar's trifling adventures, lest I be a 'fool' in doing so.
Lepki will submit to no levies being sent to Sicily, if you wish to force them from us, you will find yourselves in a very dangerous and unfavourable station.
Hasdrubal! Perhaps you should take care to wander in the forum for a while, better still be gone, and recreate yourself within the city for today.
It does seem very apparent that the journey here has corrupted you!
However what you have said, though hurried and broken, is understable, and let it be known to the council here, that in my tearing off from the conduct in Sicily, I do now hold a decision as to where I should support a campaign.
Iberia, or Numidia, and I am willing to be persuaded on this matter, providing that you all do acknowledge and appreciate my assistance when you have it.
And there will be no apology, tempered Senator, Lepki is my province and it is a very loyal citizenry that I keep there.
They will agree with me on every matter, and boycott whoever I deem to punish for their insults.
So, contrary to your sickly demands, I will repeat my offer to Mago.
Governor, you are a fine candidate for Shophet, and most surely my vote will bring you to a very powerful seat.
And if you will, as Shophet, provide during your entire term constant financial support for the city of Lepki that we may develop our trading and docking, we will levy two regiments for use of in the home garrison.
These you may take to Ippone to defend against those Numidian goats!
Or rather sheperd the western goats that we keep in that village!
Also, if you do this, I promise my city will submit to a high tax rate, and you will always have our appreciation in your reign as Shophet.
This is not a ransom - I am but a tribune of my people, and all of their voices, the frail, the booming, the young, center their praises, attitudes and severest wants within me.
If I am content, Lepki is content.
If I am scorned, a province is scorned. And we do all know, that Lepki is but a barren wasteland, and that barren lands breed violent, rebellious men.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Looks at Hamalcar
Man o man see our situation as a fighter
OUR body(homeland) has to be fit before we can seriously give a good punch
As in my situation (Iberia) i would like to cleanup the region of those rebels but i know WE can't do that yet
First we need to be fit so we have to do something about our economic situation and just have to wait till the rebel situation in our homeland is
taken care off
As for you Gisgo i almost agree with your proposal except for that fact i will say no to every proposal for taking militairy action against Syrakousai that is
what i don't like about it we can better use these troops in Mauritania to take all the coastal settlements from the rebels
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
You suggest that I would seek to start a civil war by forcing Lepki under my wing, you assume too much.
Ha! Leves from Lepki would serve as the weakness of my army either way, I do not need nor want the bastard children from your ignorant wives anyway!
Your seemingly strong, elegant way to speak is a mere trick, for underneath it is obvious to see your attempts to shift the focus of our empire onto lepki, one of our most remote, uninteresting, unprofitable settlements in the entire empire.
So go now, Rot in the afternoon Sun, wander aimlessly through the desert looking for ways to increase your profit's for the "empire" when really, you look to gain a profit for yourself, you have not the interest of the empire in your heart, you have the interest of your self as priority!
I have no desire to exchange words with a man as fork tongued as you any longer, until you wake yourself from this dream of a Kart-Hadast equivelent Lepki, with your governor's palace in the center and your many wives sleeping in your bed while your brats roll around on the floor.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*Mago stands to rise, somewhat bemused by the situation as it unfolds before him*
I am honoured that our Governor from the east would hold me in such high esteem.
However, I fear that in-fighting may tear this noble council apart. We must not lose sight of the issues at hand.
The latest development within this hall, as I see it, is shall we defend Ippone or take Syrakousai?
I must admit that I am leaning towards the former, as the city of Kirtan is but a hair's breadth from our loyal Gisgo's Palace, and the stone walls of Syrakousai shall not be a meager task to assault. Our Elephants will be made nearly useless, and I would advise that these are sent to the theatre where we intend to take offensive actions within the first term, or they be disbanded completely until such time as we can afford the great beasts and the hefty care they require.
The Pachyderms will serve little purpose in Sicilia at the moment, and it is thusly that at this time, I will formally withdraw all support for an attack on Syrakousai in the next term.
I fear I may gain Hamalcar's ire, but I would not send this empire into a war we cannot win, and unless Hamalcar recieves hefty re-inforcements and we leave the cities of Ippone and Gader woefully underdefended, this is very likely the case over the next two years.
May I remind our young Governor from Sicilia that the time for his house to rise will come, but we must ensure his house does not fall, for all of Carthaginian Sicilia will fall with it.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Mago speaks with some wisdom, Although begrudgingly I give my full support to Gisgo and all his proposals, Although I would ask that my elephants be left with me, I have paid greatly to acquire them, and It would be a waste to let them run free on the plains of Sicily until after our conquest of Syracusai.
Gisgo, Kill those Kirtan bastards quickly, so I may avenge the lives of our fathers, and slaughter our Greek rivals once and for all, of which I desire most of all.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
I support our most noble governor Magos words. Though I am a Barcine I can see wisdom in his statement. I hereby also support Governors Gisgo, Bomilkar, and Hamalcar But I beseech him that after this campaign is through that attention be turned towards Syracuse. And as for Governor Hanno. Your words disgust me! To me right now you are no better than a power hungry Greek who rules a large piece of worthless sand. You claim to support our most noble Republic but your actions show otherwise. All I see is a power hungry man that is attempting to overthrow our Most Noble system of government. Baal forbid the day that you would come to power. You are nothing more than a tyrant! I curse the day your mother bore you! I pray that you repent of your deeds before it is to late!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Senator of Hadrumetum..
Or had you forgotten, that you are, a Senator - of Adrumeto!
I have no need to defend myself against your spittle!
My stature and my ability are like a colossus which does in total ignorance stand clearly and advantageously far above your gaze.
And your attempts to violate the justice, and puissance of my words do like the waves coursed by passing Biremes - halve and break against the very base of my power.
So do not accuse rampantly anything of your neighbouring province, for it is a loving province, and one that will always support Adrumeto and not relinquish support for such a fine city due to the ingratitude of one.
Bomikar! Strangle this creature with a muzzle before it destroys the reputation of your dominion!
Mago, this Senator would address you already as Shophet, but you are not such a man, and will not be until my vote is thrown within your favour.
And it is such a globally beneficial profit that I ask for - that we may in Lepki serve our empire more efficiently.
The rewards you will reap for your conduct in favour of my province will far beset the financial cost.
Consider it Governor... Or, will I say - Shophet?
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*stands to address the council*
First let me say that i am in compete agreement with Mago and his son Gisgo. Making sure our home provinces are safe and secure should be of utmost importance. So i stand in agreement with Gisgo's proposal to ask the council where we as a nation might send the councils troops. Let i remind everyone here that the troops stationed in our cities remain under the councils rule and not each and everyone's own personal guard. If we think we can just order troops around where we like, our military will be swiftly destroyed by those foolish enough to take matters into their own hands! Also imagine if someone would decide to hold troops just because they are angry at a fellow member of our council, just think you might be the one to condem the lives of our fair people by not sending that aid! So i say before you speak in haste about what you think you can do, think before you even begin to speak!
I will end on the note of praising Hamalcar for understanding the need Carthage before his dreams of conquest. When the time is right we shall strike at the vile Greeks, which i desire with you!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*stands with a glare at Hanno*
I will not stand here and defend my senator as he is capable of doing it himself, but do not tell me to put a leash on him as I do not treat him like a slave like you must your own! Every man in this this nation has a right to say what they want! Do not make our brothers look like scum! We can blame that on the Romans!
*sits back down flustered*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
The Senator of Adrumeto Humbly Stands
I apologize for referring to Mago as Shophet. But in my defence Governor Hanno's words offended me so deeply that I lost my head so hereby I edited my speech. Do not think that I want the power of our entire empire to go to only one man. That would defeat the purpose of this republic and make us like the Greeks who falsely claim they want freedom as an excuse to conquer their neighbors. The so called Delian League of Athens showed us true Greek character. I hereby apologize deeply to the council for my words of rage. But I do not apologize to Governor Hanno. You have the nerve to relate me a FREE man of the Republic to a Slave!!!! Hah! I agree with Governor Bomilcar! May your Serpents tongue that is full of Venom be plucked out by Baal Himself! Men who accuse other Men of such base things really do it because it is of true of themselves! So for you to say a numidian has no soul is really to say you Lack a Soul! So since you are nothing more then a brute beast I say you are the one in need of a leash! The Senator of Adrumeto sits back down clearly agitated
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*pezhetairoi stands up to address the Council*
It would seem in the course of the speeches I have noticed a shift of focus towards my own city. My own governor, foremost of us, has himself made his plans, detailed as usual, incorporating the somewhat disjointed proposals we have made. It would be poor conduct for me to disagree with him, especially when, put so systematically, we may see a logical procedure in it. Hence I agree with Gisgo son of Mago wholeheartedly. If the resources of Africa will be concentrated upon Ippone to subdue the Numidian miscreants, I wholeheartedly agree! I had only advised the defensive before being unsure if the Council was willing to concentrate all its forces for one blow, divided as it was.
My dear Shophet, have we a charge in Council similar to the Roman maiestas? Have we a Tarpeian Rock from which we may hurl the guilty, or must we simply drown them in the harbour? I know of someone undeserving of the dignity of a Councillor and governor, whose acts would have brought him over the brink of the Tarpeian in the blink of an eye had he been Roman. Who has heard of such unseemly behaviour in the Senate? Yet here we have people treating the Safot Softim as if its individual provinces were their personal fiefdoms, and insults fellow citizens as slaves!
He who spoke of keeping our backyard clean and tidy before we could dare to look abroad speaks truth. We must be strong and united at home before we may turn our eyes to Spain or Sicily. Hence!
Proposal 1.27 I move that a vote of censure be taken against the rebellious Hanno, that he may know the displeasure of the Council and curb his behaviour.
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*bounces up shaking his fist at senator Pezhetairoi*
What!?! You seek to cencure us? The council? Are we not here so we can speak freely, and while we may not agree then at least we can agree to disagree.
But if you seek to cencure and single out Senators and Govenors, where does that lead us? Should I next time around shut my bloody mouth instead of calling you blubbering fools to bring attention to Ippone? Should I next time around speak my mind or serve the council honeyed lies just so I won't get punished. We are free men, free to make our decicions and speak our mind freely
But people should also bear in mind that civility costs nothing and gains you much.
*seems to have let off his steam and sits down*
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
Dear senators, I forgive myself since other important maters forced my absence,
Much is said already and many humors have changed, may I remember that we are all Karthaginians?
Alalia, Karalis and Lilibeo are in the best position to became important markets of Mediterain. Though some of you do not consider our friendship with Rome do you recognize we will keep such friendship for some time. Alalia with a port, a fair trade center, and some agricultural encouragement will certainly profit much more than any mine in Iberia.
Together , the three cities will be able to allow us trade with Greeks, Gauls, Celts, Iberians, and all Italiotes! The chance for profit in matter of years if not months is undeniable.
Those three cities will also boost the economics of Karthadast, Adrumento, Atique and even Lepki or Bocchoris. Where is gold there can be founded power!
If we make the construction of economy of this three cities our primary concern never more will our general have to rely in militias, nor will our Admirals become fleet less.
So I come to a change in my initial proposals, instead of a narrow order of building ports, let us issue a general guidance comand and in proposal 1.6 we should read building those ports followed by the Construction priority to the economical growth of Karalis, Alalia and Lilibeo, by building trade centers, farms, and esecially mines in Karalis as soon as possible since it is better to have mines a day distant than three a month away in Iberia, not to mention the pirating problem of the transportation, there is our renown difficulties to deal with corruption in that far colonies.
As for military reinforcements, well, war is in Sicily as most here have said, sending expensive armies to Iberia while we recognize that Ippone is at very risk of being attacked by thieves and plunderers within an year time would not be the action of wise man such us, please I shall leave the details to the governors and their military staff, but wall must be build in Ippone and a fortification must be placed in Zeugitana frontier to allow an army to quickly move to hel the city in case of siege.
If it happens, this will be the time to punish the desert lords of Kirtan by taking their small and yet not profitable city.
As for the heat debate among senators and governors I ask (in loud voice) “Am I the e only one concerned more in discussing effective proposals then in exchanging aggressions?” (in calm voice) I think not!
Many of you will see many of the proposals are indeed the same ones differing only in implementation, what our governors needs is the general guidance of the Senate, they know how to implement the day to day affairs!
Soon we will have to decide for a new Sophet, only one has been second in his self nomination, only one is not involved in near affairs and has the freedom from the intentions clash we have seen the last hours, it is Mago and I urge you, fellow senators, to accept his nomination as Sophet!
As for censure, well, tough we may not like one or another comment we need to encourage the independence of thought necessary to bravely stand your point of view! What better censure is there, than our vote?
Please, take the next hours to analyze and decide who deserves your vote and which direction will our proposals take us, War, Peace, Trade, Farming, because this direction can not be changed before much effort is lost!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
My friendly Senator from Palmyra, you are joyfully welcomed in defending my cause here.
Yet, it is clear to me in this council, that since I have at least the bare attention, and meager reinforcement of the speech of some here, I should be willing to allow leniency in return.
It is not greedy bartering that I either encourage or allow myself here, by my negotiation with Mago - which he is yet to speak in terms of!
As tribune of my province, I am obliged thoroughly to advise to the Senate their foremost wishes, and what would please the people of Lepki primarily.
In offering my support to Mago, I simply provided a means both of him finding the power he rightfully deserves in our Senate, and a way of obtaining great favour and friendship within the people of Lepki.
If he were to seek the assistance of the province of Attiqa, or their vote, he would do no less for them what I ask for my own city!
The great, towering power that I seemingly possess does not belong truly to me!
I am bestowed with it by the wilfull promise of Lepki, I am caught between two magnificent influences that awe me, the Senate, and the city from which I am come.
And so it is never the man here who does plead and assist here, Hanno, but the thousands strong that either rage or demand in my name!
Though they may be the force that drives the offensive wants of their own city and province, I am the weakened joint through which the criticisms and violent threats reply.
Consider, all of you, my position, which does stress my body to it's zenith as I attempt to hold Lepki to Carthage and Carthage to Lepki, before you do dishonour me with decrees and slander!
Very few of you know the nature of Hanno, and the justice he seeks truly is overshadowed and undernourished beneath the beck and call of Lepki!
Censure me not, and do not either allow me pity, but greet my speeches as those of a hungry and desperate province!
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*rises gracefully from his seat*
Well spoken Govenor Hanno, glory of the empire is our cause and we may disagree the means to an end, but we do not disagree in the End and that is the rise of Karth-Hadast.
It seems that Mago has heard my plea to keep Ippone...and his son Gisgo safe from the Numidians so it seems that my vote and wise council shall be his for this term.
As this council soon comes to a close, I think I will ponder the strategic proposals and decide my votes on them even though I believe they should only be guidelines for our next Shophet as the future is not set in stone.
Though I shudder to return to Bocchoris as the journey will be treachorous and more so treachorous if we disband our navies, but one plea I have for the new Shophet, whoever might receive the post, and that is the funding for a simple drainage in Bocchoris 'cause frankly, right now the place stinks
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Re: The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game
*pezhetairoi rises and addresses nightstar*
Oh Nightstar, you misunderstand my motion, moved to censure Hanno for his declaration to withhold his troops from the good of the Empire. I do not move to censure Hanno for his words, for his mouth is his to do as he wishes. But to hold back his troops, that is danger to the empire! It is treasonous. And that is what I censure. Do you deny that Councillors sometimes require to be kept within the bounds of dignified conduct befitting a leader of the empire?
That aside, I thank you for your consideration of Ippone. I feel for your town on Baleares. I have heard it is a beautiful place, and to spoil it with midden heaps would be, quite frankly, very pathetic. I shall be sure to vote on it if the motion is moved after our foreign threats are removed.
And now, I shall await the voting process and the building of the long-awaited walls around my Ippone.
