Fanatic’s First Cohort/Phalanx/Elephant/Chariot minimod

The Phalanx/Aquilifer Mod Patch 1.2 Compatible

My Christmas gift to the EB Community.

In case you are wondering why elephants and chariots are mentioned in the title, this is because they used to be bugged. They were fixed in 1.1 though and so I have minimized the area of modification to the phalanx units. There is also an Aquilifer mod if you want Aquilifers for your first cohorts.

I will give the download links immediately for those of you who don’t want to bother trudging through all that text. Both are savegame compatible.

Download the Phalanx Mod here:
http://files.filefront.com/Phalanx+M.../fileinfo.html

Download the Aquilifer Mod here:
http://files.filefront.com/Eagle+bea.../fileinfo.html

To install the Phalanx Mod, simply extract into the folder you have installed EB into (it is probably called Rome: Total War unless you have changed it). DO NOT extract into your EB mod folder (which is contained inside your Rome: Total War folder). Directions on how to install the Aquilifer Mod are included at the bottom of this post. You may want to back up your export_descr_unit files in case you decide you want to revert back to vanilla. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm here to help.

To avoid confusion, here is a brief overview of terms I use:
Macedonian phalanx - Any unit with the “phalanx” special ability uses what I term the Macedonian phalanx.
Classical or Hoplite phalanx - Any unit that fights in the hoplite-style phalanx. These units are easily recognizable by name or description. The hoplite phalanx is a tightly packed formation with overlapping shields and spears protruding from above, an impenetrable wall of bronze, iron and oak, an implacable force made seemingly not of individuals but a single inexorable contraption, an…OK you get the idea, I’ll stop.

NOTE: Despite that last comment, I am not a phalanx fan boy. Phalanx units—particularly Macedonian phalanxes—are not necessarily improved with this mod. And I like the Celtic factions best if that means anything…

NOTE # 2: Guard mode is no longer necessary! You do not need it. You fight better without it and can still keep a cohesive formation. Also, you no longer need to stand still and receive a charge. Hoplites now deliver a crushing charge and will maintain formation while (and after) doing so. Thanks to Barrabas for pointing this out.

Here is a brief overview of the changes made in the Phalanx Mod (Scroll down to see the Aquilifer and how to install it.):

-to Macedonian phalanxes: -.03 spear lethality, -1 sword attack, -2 armor, + 2 defense skill; given spear attribute (light_spear attribute removed).
What this means: Although Macedonian phalanxes maintain their attack ratings, decreased lethality causes their hits to knock opponents down more frequently (rather than kill). The decrease in armor is made up for in head on contests (when unit is in phalanx) by the increase in skill, which effects melee defense from the front and left (shield) sides; armor effects missile and melee defense from all sides. Thus, Macedonian phalanxes are now more vulnerable to missiles fired from any direction, but particularly at their exposed rear and flanks. They are also more vulnerable to flanking attacks. The spear attribute makes them push more and harder (something phalanxes were very good at). The downside to this attribute is that it can make units push so hard that their formation loses cohesion.

-to Classical (Hoplite) phalanxes: -.02 spear lethality, -2 armor, + 2 shield defense, +3 charge bonus; given short_pike attribute; given spear attribute (light_spear attribute removed).
What this means: See Macedonian phalanxes. The changes are similar except that hoplites receive an increase in shield defense rather than defense skill. This is because hoplite phalanxes in EB do not use phalanx, and thus are not nearly as resistant to missiles from the front and left side as are the Macedonian variety, whose shield defense is doubled when in phalanx.
Hoplites too get a reduction in lethality so as to better reflect hoplite warfare. Casualties were generally few until one formation or another broke from the extreme force of the pressing phalanx--that was when the real killing began. The spear attribute makes them push more and harder (something hoplites were very good at). The downside to this attribute is that it can make units push so hard that they break formation. In combination with a cohesive formation trait such as the short_pike attribute, however, they maintain formation and the ability to push hard.
The biggest change here is indeed the short_pike attribute. This does a number of things. First, it shrinks their spears from approximately twelve feet in length to nine. Twelve feet is simply inaccurately long for classical hoplites or Spartiates.
The other effects I will show below with screen shots.

BEFORE:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/...ds/before1.jpg
They march with the tops of their spears magically dragging beneath the ground and their butt spikes in the air.
AFTER:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/...ids/after1.jpg
They march with spears held level and pointed forward.

BEFORE:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/...ds/before2.jpg
They break formation and charge like unorganized rabble.
AFTER:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/...ids/after2.jpg
They stay in a tight, orderly formation and slam into the enemy as one - an invincible, unstoppable phalanx.

BEFORE:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/...ds/before3.jpg
They fight like barbarians, individuals fighting for personal glory with no resemblance of a formation.
AFTER:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/...ids/after3.jpg
They fight like, well, a phalanx! A single, implacable body pushing the enemy backwards with great force until they finally break and run.

Here is the Aquilifer. Screenshot taken by hooahguy.
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/...aqulaifier.jpg

Here is a “How To” guide on installation:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is for those of you who want to have eagle bearers in your first cohorts.

First things first, remember to work in your RTW/EB/Data folder, not your RTW/Data folder. RTW/Data has vanilla RTW's files in it, RTW/EB/Data has EB's files in it.

For those of you who play on ALEX.exe, you may not have to remove a unit in order to add this Aquilifer (but I don't know for sure, I don't have it myself). The rest of you probably have to. So the first step is to entirely remove the unit of your choice from your game. I chose praetorian cavalry since they are heavily bugged in my game and make black lines flash all over my screen (some people have this problem, you may not). To do this, you must remove all text entries related to that unit from all of the following files:
export_descr_unit, export_descr_buildings, export_text, descr_model_battle, and descr_strat. There will only be text for this unit in the descr_strat file if the unit is there at the start of the campaign, because (as you modders know) the descr_strat file deals only with the campaign. So, for example, there are entries for hastati in descr_strat, but there are not entries for praetorian cavalry (the latter doesn't appear until the Augustan reforms).

How do you remove text? It's quite simple. You will find a block of text for that particular unit with a blank line before it and a blank line after it. Simply delete this block of text. The exceptions are the descr_model_battle and descr_strat files, which have single lines for a unit (often repeated over and over again). You will need to use cntrl+f in order to search for the particular unit you want to remove.

Once that's finished, it's time to add the Aquilifer. Here's how:

First, place the CAS file provided into your models_unit folder. Then, place the TGA and DDS files your textures folder, which is located inside of your models_unit folder.

Now, open your descr_model_battle file. Copy and paste this follow block of text anywhere in the file, but be sure to leave a line before and after it so it is clearly separated from the other entries.

type roman_eagle
skeleton fs_standard_bearer
indiv_range 40
texture seleucid, eb/data/models_unit/textures/SPQR_OFFICER_JULII_STANDARD_AQUILIFIER_LATE.TGA
model_flexi_m eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, 8
model_flexi_m eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, 15
model_flexi_m eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, 30
model_flexi_m eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, 40
model_flexi eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, max
model_sprite seleucid, 60.0, eb/data/sprites/officers/ebsprite_officer_all.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5

I highly recommended installing my phalanx mod (if you want it) prior to doing this next step. If you wait till after doing this next step to install it, then your files will be overwritten and your work made obsolete.

Lastly, open your export_descr_unit file. Press cntrl-f and search for your first cohort units. The dictionary entries are "roman infantry first legionary cohort i" and "roman infantry first legionary cohort ii". The former is for the post-marian first cohort, the latter for the imperial first cohort.

You will see that each unit has two officers, a centurion and a standard bearer. Below all the other officers, copy and paste the below line of text on its own line:

officer roman_eagle

It should look like this (you can just copy and paste these over your own entries if you want):

;524
type roman infantry first legionary cohort i
dictionary roman_infantry_legionary_first_cohort_i ; First Cohort
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_cohorsreformata, 50, 0, 1.2
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
officer roman_eagle
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, command, legionary_name
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 4, pilum, 36.8, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 10, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 15, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1914, 479, 100, 160, 1914
ownership seleucid


;242
type roman infantry legionary cohort ii
dictionary roman_infantry_legionary_cohort_ii ; Cohortes Imperatoria
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_cohorsimperatoria_evocata, 50, 0, 1.18
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_standard
officer roman_eagle
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 4, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 8, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 14, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1790, 448, 100, 160, 1790
ownership seleucid, slave

;525
type roman infantry first legionary cohort ii
dictionary roman_infantry_legionary_first_cohort_ii ; Cohortes Imperatoria
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_cohorsimperatoria_evocata, 50, 0, 1.2
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_standard
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, command, legionary_name
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 4, pilum, 36.8, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 10, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 15, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1914, 479, 100, 160, 1914
ownership Seleucid

Remember to make these changes to both your multiplayer and singleplayer export_descr_unit files!

Credit for this beautiful Aquilifer goes to lt1956, creator of the SPQR mod!

Thanks a lot, I'll try it out the 'chocolate' straight away!

so after 30 days should we uninstall or send in money to get the activaton code?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

im such a nerd

btw im doin chocolate fo sho

Hi!

I think I found a bug. After installing chocolate, I loaded up the custom_edu for some custom battle aquilifier action. However, as I load the battle the game crashes. I get the following info:

model database failed to load model eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas

Looking through the folder, there is no such .cas file. I think you might have forgotten to ad the .cas file to the 'eb/data/models_unit/' folder in the installer.

Or maybe I fucked something up when installing.... :)

im also getting an error when i try to start a new campaign with KH, it says in descr_regions.txt at line 23 column 67
unrecognized: 'city' as a region resource class

im just gonna dl MAA city mod from his thread and replace that regions file

Thanks! I presume it's not save-game compatible? Will I have to drop my 231BC Romani campaign to play this?

It should be save game compatible unless you currently have praetorian cavalry in your campaign. I know it's working with my campaign.

@Barrabas: Woah! Very sorry, I forgot to include the model file. I'll fix this then upload the fixed version ASAP. You can just extract the fixed version over the old, bugged version.

EDIT: Done!

@madmatg: I didn't touch the descr_regions file. Any problems there should have nothing to do with this mod.

Be careful with the short pike phalanx, in my tests I found it too vulnerable to frontal cavalry charges, almost as if infantry had no mass.

Great, they are working fine now.

Very nice aquilifier! Impressive details (like face, for example).

Oh, I almost forgot. Are the First Cohorts 'nameable' in campaign, as MarcusAureliusAntoninus's are (I'm referring to his AAR). And if so, how do you rename them? Just like you would a city?

Quote:

---

Be careful with the short pike phalanx, in my tests I found it too vulnerable to frontal cavalry charges, almost as if infantry had no mass.

---

Hmm, in my tests hoplites were almost invulnerable from the front to everything except for Macedonian phalanxes (which are still superior to hoplites head-on), other hoplites and a few, highly elite units. Perhaps this is because of the raised shield defense.

Quote:

---

Great, they are working fine now.

Very nice aquilifier! Impressive details (like face, for example).

Oh, I almost forgot. Are the First Cohorts 'nameable' in campaign, as MarcusAureliusAntoninus's are (I'm referring to his AAR). And if so, how do you rename them? Just like you would a city?

---

They are not, because unfortunately I do not know how to make them nameable. I will scavenge the scriptorium for tutorials when I get home from work. Hopefully I'll learn how.

thank ya sir, i'll have to figure out what the problem is with that

Hmm... Nice! I'll try it out then. Thanks!

I have a problem with the hoplites...I've downloaded and installed chocolate version, but the hoplites still use the old method of holding their spears. I don't see the difference between how they hold their spears...am I suppose to change a certain aspect of the edu?

Look at before and after screen shots. Are your hoplites marching and fighting like those in the after screen shots? If so, the mod is working. And there is no reason it shouldn't...

Please note, however, that Massilian hoplites cannot use the short_pike attribute because they have two weapons (spear and longsword).

Hey fanatic, I have trouble installing the files. When I try extracting the data folder i get this message;

! C:\Documents and Settings\Johnny Sum\Local Settings\Temp\Rar$DI28.735\'Chocolate' First Cohort, Phalanx, Elephant and Chariot minimod.zip: Cannot open C:\Documents and Settings\Johnny Sum\Local Settings\Temp\Rar$DI28.735\'Chocolate' First Cohort, Phalanx, Elephant and Chariot minimod.zip
! The system cannot find the file specified.


I'm a novice here, do you mind giving a step by step guide to installin this?









EDIT: Another thing, when I extract the folder nothing gets replaced.

So, wait is the "short pike" Phalanxes "Phalanxes"(RTW wise) or do they just look like it?


And if they're not phalanxes why add the spear attribute?

I heard that severely messes up stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

Look at before and after screen shots. Are your hoplites marching and fighting like those in the after screen shots? If so, the mod is working. And there is no reason it shouldn't...

Please note, however, that Massilian hoplites cannot use the short_pike attribute because they have two weapons (spear and longsword).

---

Yeh, I've installed the chocolate full mods and the hoplites still fight like an unorganized rabble. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

Look at before and after screen shots. Are your hoplites marching and fighting like those in the after screen shots? If so, the mod is working. And there is no reason it shouldn't...

Please note, however, that Massilian hoplites cannot use the short_pike attribute because they have two weapons (spear and longsword).

---

short_pike can be added as an attribute to the spear. shouldnt make a difference if there is a sword as well...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olaf The Great

So, wait is the "short pike" Phalanxes "Phalanxes"(RTW wise) or do they just look like it?


And if they're not phalanxes why add the spear attribute?

I heard that severely messes up stats.

---

short_pike does not add the phalanx formation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Durian

Hey fanatic, I have trouble installing the files. When I try extracting the data folder i get this message;

! C:\Documents and Settings\Johnny Sum\Local Settings\Temp\Rar$DI28.735\'Chocolate' First Cohort, Phalanx, Elephant and Chariot minimod.zip: Cannot open C:\Documents and Settings\Johnny Sum\Local Settings\Temp\Rar$DI28.735\'Chocolate' First Cohort, Phalanx, Elephant and Chariot minimod.zip
! The system cannot find the file specified.


I'm a novice here, do you mind giving a step by step guide to installin this?


EDIT: Another thing, when I extract the folder nothing gets replaced.

---

:inquisitive:
That's very odd. I'll edit the topic post and insert a brief installation tutorial for those who need it.

EDIT: done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mcantu

short_pike can be added as an attribute to the spear. shouldnt make a difference if there is a sword as well...

---

Try it yourself. Trust me, it doesn't work - I spent an hour trying to make it work and failed.:smash:

Quote:

---

Yeh, I've installed the chocolate full mods and the hoplites still fight like an unorganized rabble. :/

---

Read the installation tutorial and re-install. You must have done something wrong.

Quote:

---

So, wait is the "short pike" Phalanxes "Phalanxes"(RTW wise) or do they just look like it?


And if they're not phalanxes why add the spear attribute?

I heard that severely messes up stats.

---

See the AFTER pictures. They fight in a similar manner as before (no Macedonian phalanx, overhand spears) except that they keep a cohesive formation and have a lot more push. The stats have also been changed, see the changes mentioned for hoplites in the title post. The spear attribute gives them far more push. And no, it does not mess up their stats.

Please read the title post. All I did above was basically restate what was already said there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

:inquisitive:


Read the installation tutorial and re-install. You must have done something wrong.

.

---

I just extracted the zipped file, got an EB folder, and just transfered the chocolate version into my main EB folder... :/

I pretty sure I installed everything correctly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

I just extracted the zipped file, got an EB folder, and just transfered the chocolate version into my main EB folder... :/

I pretty sure I installed everything correctly

---

And it still doesn't work? If so, I don't know what to say...other than that the problem is at your end. :shrug:

EDIT: Test with a few different hoplite units...there is a possibility that I could have skipped over one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

And it still doesn't work? If so, I don't know what to say...other than that the problem is at your end. :shrug:

---

Well, I'm using the Camillan Roman Triaris, could that be a reason? (they don't have the short pike attribute?)

or is it because I installed BI & v1.6 but am playing on regular?

Intranetusa:
Are you using the defend/guard (D-button) mode on your units?

Also, I have learned something about naming legions.
Apparently BI allows for a new unit attribute in the EDU, 'legionary_name'. Then you have to edit some other files too, Zaknafien describes it briefly here (post #44):
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...t=94117&page=2

I haven't tried it myself yet, but it seems doable. I looked in the original first cohort mod, and there are some clues as to what to change. I think Zaknafien has done a more advanced version of it though.

I know nothing about BI, I don't even own it. But Camilan Triarii do have the short_pike attribute. They fight like any other hoplites.

Quote:

---

Intranetusa:
Are you using the defend/guard (D-button) mode on your units?

---

Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, you no longer need guard mode (you should turn itoff). You may also charge your hoplites like any other unit.

Quote:

---

Also, I have learned something about naming legions.
Apparently BI allows for a new unit attribute in the EDU, 'legionary_name'. Then you have to edit some other files too, Zaknafien describes it briefly here (post #44):
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...t=94117&page=2

I haven't tried it myself yet, but it seems doable. I looked in the original first cohort mod, and there are some clues as to what to change. I think Zaknafien has done a more advanced version of it though.

---

Ty, good find. I'll look into this when I get home from work.:2thumbsup:

Check these pages out:
-http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...cohorts&page=2
-http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=First+cohorts
I tried to find how to do it like Cunctator did: numbering the legions I to infinity. Unfortunately, at the point where I am now, all I get is "Legion".
Maybe actually asking them might yield more results?
Anyway, fantastic mod!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

I know nothing about BI, I don't even own it. But Camilan Triarii do have the short_pike attribute. They fight like any other hoplites.


Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, you no longer need guard mode (you should turn itoff). You may also charge your hoplites like any other unit.


Ty, good find. I'll look into this when I get home from work.:2thumbsup:

---

Ok, thanks a lot. Fixed the problem :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

I know nothing about BI, I don't even own it.

---

Could this be the reason why the mod wont install, because I have BI installed?

You need to extract 'Chocolate' archive, and copy 'EB' folder from it to your RTW main folder (with exe).

Charge has sent me Imperial First Cohort unit cards (thank you!). If you downloaded this mod prior to 00:30 GMT November second, you did not get it. You can download it in the title post as a seperate download (so it's quick).

Quote:

---

Ok, thanks a lot. Fixed the problem :)

---

Great!

Is this compatable w/the city mod? I assume it would be, but I'm just double checking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icydawgfish

Is this compatable w/the city mod? I assume it would be, but I'm just double checking.

---

No, because both have different EDB files. I suppose it would be simple enough to edit that file then upload it though...
Atm, the city mod's download link is broken. When it's fixed, I'll download it, edit it, then upload a second EDB file for people who want to use both the city mod and this mod.

As for the "naming legions" ability, I'll try to make that work as soon as I get my home computer (which has all my gaming stuff on it) back from the shop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

Great!

---

Crap, I was looking at a sarrissa phalanx and not the classical phalanx...I still have that problem with hoplites even with defend turned off...>.<

I'm very sorry, but there's nothing I can do. This mod is working for me and everyone else, so I can only assume that you made some mistake during the installation. I hope you can fix it, but if not, perhaps you could just uninstall. Good luck!

@Intranetusa
Check EDU entry for that unit and ensure it have
stat_pri_attr ........... light_spear, short_pike
attribute. If not -> files not overwriten..

camillan triarii

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear, short_pike
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 11, 9, 7, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid, slave

before:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 9, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charge

@Intranetusa
Check EDU entry for that unit and ensure it have
stat_pri_attr ........... light_spear, short_pike
attribute. If not -> files not overwriten..

camillan triarii

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear, short_pike
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 11, 9, 7, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid, slave

before:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 9, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid

---

Yeh, that's exactly what I have...weird. Maybe I need to start a new game :/


No problem TWfanatic, I'll work it out somehow.

I just realized I named my EB folder incorrectly and have been playing with another version of EB copied into my vanilla RTW folder...silly me.

Problem fixed, thxs ppl

Yay!:beam:

So, is everyone enjoying this mod? Anything that needs to be improved upon? Elephants or chariots too weak or powerful?

I have downloaded it and played an while:
The new hoplite formation is so cool!!!!
And now AI elephants and chariots arent useless anymore while still being beatable even with i'm playing with them. Balance :thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
And I still have to try teh 1st coorts and the aquilifer and play more.

Thanks TWF and everyone that helped in this mod!!!!!!! :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

Very nice mini mod:yes: and i hope you will make it compatable with city mod

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

Yay!:beam:

So, is everyone enjoying this mod? Anything that needs to be improved upon? Elephants or chariots too weak or powerful?

---

Hey thanks for the mod. Its working for me now and its fantastic. I love how the hoplites fight in compact tight formation
https://img401.imageshack.us/img401/...cianxu0.th.jpg

But I also noticed (but this could be just me) the result is they are a bit over strengthened. Have they been given severe penalties when flanked. I realized they are still deadly even when sandwiched by several units, which makes me think that since they are now more tightly formed it would be difficult to use those long spears when flanked.

Another thing I noticed is that some of them attack with their spears pointing in the sky but thats not really important.

Cheers for the mod :2thumbsup:

Seeing as I'm so lazy and don't want to wait for a version compatible with the City Mod, I take it just copying the Roman MIC section from the First Cohort edb over the Roman MIC section in the City Mod edb would make them compatible?

you would lose the entire take away pop growth from some buildings and add law boni to others and such.

but sure.


@TWFanatic, your mod looks interesting now that ive seen that SS That mr.durian posted, I might try it once u get a citymod compatible version.

You mean Roman MICs give population growth and law bonuses?

@Admetos
Find any First cohorts' recruitment lines in it's edb and past in the same places in city mod's. All should be working..

Quote:

---

recruit "roman infantry legionary first cohort i" 0 requires factions { seleucid, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8

---

EDIT: eh, also praetorian cavalry entry should be removed..

Quote:

---

But I also noticed (but this could be just me) the result is they are a bit over strengthened. Have they been given severe penalties when flanked. I realized they are still deadly even when sandwiched by several units, which makes me think that since they are now more tightly formed it would be difficult to use those long spears when flanked.

---

Head on, they are slightly better now thanks to shield stat (but this bonus is kept in check by lower armor and attack). When flanked (particularly by cavalry), they fight slightly worse than before. They are also slightly more vulnerable to missiles in the rear. These are my conclusions, taken from many tests.

Quote:

---

Another thing I noticed is that some of them attack with their spears pointing in the sky but that’s not really important.

---

Yes, the rear ranks now point their spears upwards rather than stabbing their mates in the back. The occasional odd hoplite attacking with his spear in that manner is the price you must pay for the short_pike attribute. There is nothing I can do about it. Fortunately, they rarely do this unless flanked (and the rear ranks turn around to fight).

EDB file for those with city mod has been uploaded - check first post.

And thanks for helping Charge. :)

I made the mistake of uploading the City Mod Compatible EDB file without testing it first. I forgot to remove praetorian cavalry entery, as Charge mentions. But it's fixed now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Well, I'm using the Camillan Roman Triaris, could that be a reason? (they don't have the short pike attribute?)

or is it because I installed BI & v1.6 but am playing on regular?

---

If you installed 1.6 and BI but aren't playing with BI, that could be your problem...

Hey, TWFanatic!
I've made a quick recheck of Your mod (well, set Roman Reforms to happen muuuch quicker :D ) and noticed that Imperial First Cohort is recruitable ONLY in Rome (just like Praetorian Cohort). Is that intentional or there's something wrong with EDU file?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darth Stalin

Hey, TWFanatic!
I've made a quick recheck of Your mod (well, set Roman Reforms to happen muuuch quicker :D ) and noticed that Imperial First Cohort is recruitable ONLY in Rome (just like Praetorian Cohort). Is that intentional or there's something wrong with EDU file?

---

It is intentional. It's been that way with vanilla RTW and every single mod I've ever seen (including Cucnator's first cohort mod, so I assume it'll be like that in the next EB patch when they add first cohorts). The Eagles are made in Rome.

Were any changes made to the Triarii?? both camillian and polybian

Thanks

Camillan Triarii have received the same changes as all hoplites. Polybian Triarii haven't been touched.

Been enjoying this mod :-)


I have two questions:

1. Are the Massilan Hoplites suppose to be in the hoplite formation? They have the word hoplite in their name but they don't have the short pike attribute.

2. How strong does the +3 shield bonus make the hoplites?
I just defeated 2 units of uber elite Gastarne naked infantry with 2 units of Camillian Triari Hoplites + 1 unit of principes.

Does this mean the hoplites' +3 shield bonus make them uber powerful? XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Been enjoying this mod :-)


I have two questions:

1. Are the Massilan Hoplites suppose to be in the hoplite formation? They have the word hoplite in their name but they don't have the short pike attribute.

2. How strong does the +3 shield bonus make the hoplites?
I just defeated 2 units of uber elite Gastarne naked infantry with 2 units of Camillian Triari Hoplites + 1 unit of principes.

Does this mean the hoplites' +3 shield bonus make them uber powerful? XD

---

1. Giving the short_pike attribute to units with two weapons (such as Massilian Hoplites) simply doesn't work. Try it to see why.:clown:

2. Quite strong - from the front in particular because of the shield bonus and new, tighter formation. Remember, though, they have a lower attack and armor rating. This means that they'll kill slower, though they are now even better "shock troops," and the best hoplites can break enemies with their charge (though this usually only happens against weaker militia or thin formations). But if you can stop their momentum and hold them, they're quite vulnerable to flanking. Spartans might fight even if they're surrounded and their formation is broken, but most hoplites will flee under these conditions. This is my experience, at least.

I almost forgot one more thing: Remember that the Gaestae have had their armor lowered from 5 to 3. So if you use the triarii to hold them and principes to go around to the rear and launch pila up their *ss, they have no chance (as long as they don't rout the triarii on the charge - they're excellent shock troops and heavy javelins can disorder formations).

I can't download this mod for some reason... can you plz upload the minimod again and the EDB file for city mod? on another site if you can?

Thank you, TWFanatic. One of the biggest troubles with hoplites before was their lack of tactical organization, especially out of guard mode.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leviathan DarklyCute

I can't download this mod for some reason... can you plz upload the minimod again and the EDB file for city mod? on another site if you can?

---

That'd odd...I just tried the links and they are not dead. I'll upload second links though ASAP. EDIT: Done.

And ty for the kind words Basileos!

that works! thanks:2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TWFanatic

1. Giving the short_pike attribute to units with two weapons (such as Massilian Hoplites) simply doesn't work. Try it to see why.:clown:

2. Quite strong - from the front in particular because of the shield bonus and new, tighter formation. Remember, though, they have a lower attack and armor rating. This means that they'll kill slower, though they are now even better "shock troops," and the best hoplites can break enemies with their charge (though this usually only happens against weaker militia or thin formations). But if you can stop their momentum and hold them, they're quite vulnerable to flanking. Spartans might fight even if they're surrounded and their formation is broken, but most hoplites will flee under these conditions. This is my experience, at least.

I almost forgot one more thing: Remember that the Gaestae have had their armor lowered from 5 to 3. So if you use the triarii to hold them and principes to go around to the rear and launch pila up their *ss, they have no chance (as long as they don't rout the triarii on the charge - they're excellent shock troops and heavy javelins can disorder formations).

---

Aight thanks...but my 2 triaris and principes defeated the Gastae head on without flanking (it was a narrow street-cty battle) XD

Super non-Sarrissa Hoplites FTW!!!

Are the permanent and optional Eb-Fixes already included in this mod?

Well, the Gaesatae now are a little more "normal", and even pila have some effect on them; yet my triarii seem to be real butchers - I first fought with some 90 Samnite light inf agains ~180 Ligurian light inf, took some casualties and withdrew; then came the Triarii (162 fresh guys) and Ligurians (some 150, maybe a little bit weary) attacked them head-on... triarii lost 2 men while killing the Ligurians to the last man, AFAIK...

Phalanxes, due to shield bonuses, rarely take many casualties if fighting only at the front. They do, however, kill slower thanks to lower attack. As a result, you have more time to flank them. And they are more vulnerable to flanking now as well.

*bump*

hi TWFan
Will It be a part of EB1.1? Any chances?
Very interesting improvements IMHO.

Indeed I will assuredly make similar adjustments to 1.1 (and post them here).

I get the following error with EB 1.0

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4127/errorew5.jpg
Ive never seen a Praetorian cavalry as I havent fought Rome yet.

However I am using the Custom Edu Switcher thing , with this, your mod works in custom mode but not in campaign mode
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ght=custom+edu

Sorry Im a n00b to this stuff but appreciate the time and expertise of people like you.

... For the record my Drapanai falxmen smashed pretty much any Macedonian or Greek Phalanx but against Hoplitai with their shorter spears it was close.

Just like pre-mod the falxmen, Goidilic hammer guys, Cluddargos etc get gradually impaled on engagement and when they have lost about 20-50% of their men the phalanx lifts its spears and gets consequently owned in quick time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mykingdomforanos

I get the following error with EB 1.0

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4127/errorew5.jpg
Ive never seen a Praetorian cavalry as I havent fought Rome yet.

However I am using the Custom Edu Switcher thing , with this, your mod works in custom mode but not in campaign mode
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ght=custom+edu

---

This is odd because praetorian cavalry were removed. It shouldn't be asking for the DMB entery unless there was an EDU entery for the unit, which there isn't...unless you are accidentally using the old EDU. That is the only explination I can come up with.

Quote:

---

Sorry Im a n00b to this stuff but appreciate the time and expertise of people like you.

---

We all were once. Thanks for the kind words

Quote:

---

... For the record my Drapanai falxmen smashed pretty much any Macedonian or Greek Phalanx but against Hoplitai with their shorter spears it was close.

Just like pre-mod the falxmen, Goidilic hammer guys, Cluddargos etc get gradually impaled on engagement and when they have lost about 20-50% of their men the phalanx lifts its spears and gets consequently owned in quick time.

---

All two handed units are for flanking phalanxes. They are also good shock troops. In general, two handed units will give you serious casualties if they can get in close combat with your pikemen or break through the shield wall of your hoplites. They're the ultimate heavy infantry killers...but usually vulnerable to missiles do to their lack of shield. For that reason, I direct my missile fire on this strong but vulnerable units and attack them with light infantry.

@TWFanatic:
why the Praetorian cavalry was removed? (I suppose instead of that unit the First Cohort was added?)

Is there a free space to add the Praetorian Cav again? And how to do that? (what entries should be added/changed? I presume in both EDU and EDBuildings?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darth Stalin

@TWFanatic:
why the Praetorian cavalry was removed? (I suppose instead of that unit the First Cohort was added?)

Is there a free space to add the Praetorian Cav again? And how to do that? (what entries should be added/changed? I presume in both EDU and EDBuildings?)

---

1. They were highly bugged.
2. To make space for the aquilifers.

If you want them back, you must eliminate the aquilifers.

Taken from the first post:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by me

I have added MiniMe's Temporary Pre-1.1 EDB alteration to the chocolate version (vanilla still just has the changes mentioned for the Romans) and will continue to update the download every time MM makes a new release of his mod. In addition, I have fixed a small mistake I made in the EDU...let's just say that your hoplites will now have a lot more PUSH.

---

So you'll want to download my mod again. The chocolate version has the latest version of MM's mod.

Cheers to MM for being cooperative.

I can't seem to download the file, it tells me there's an error in connection etc, but I have no problems with downloading other stuff. Is there any alternative site I can get it from? Them Hoplites are sexy, and I want 'em.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

I can't seem to download the file, it tells me there's an error in connection etc, but I have no problems with downloading other stuff. Is there any alternative site I can get it from? Them Hoplites are sexy, and I want 'em.

---

I will upload them to a new mirror ASAP.

I had the same problem as Mykingdomforanos, apparently it happened to me after installing the apeleutheroi (sp?) fix. I got over it by installing the first cohort mod again.

Do the hoplite changes apply to Carthage's Liby-Phoenician Infantry? They appear almost identical on the unit cards (1 point worse in snow). They're described as "phalanx soldiers" on the unit card, and their unmodded versions act like just the unmodded classical hoplites on the battlefield.

But I have zero historical knowledge here, I'm just figuring that they're meant to be hoplites with different armour cosmetics and a warmer native climate based on what's in the game.

great job TWFanatic! i just downloaded and tested this minimod, and all i can say is, I LOVE IT!
i really like the new aquilifers!
(for those who havent seen them yet- here it is!
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/...aqulaifier.jpg
(now whys my captain turned backwards?)

and here is the new hoplites, which i must say, fight much better!
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/...formations.jpg

all in all, YOU DID AN AMAZING JOB! :applause:
kudos and a balloon :balloon2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morte66

Do the hoplite changes apply to Carthage's Liby-Phoenician Infantry? They appear almost identical on the unit cards (1 point worse in snow). They're described as "phalanx soldiers" on the unit card, and their unmodded versions act like just the unmoved classical hoplites on the battlefield.

But I have zero historical knowledge here, I'm just figuring that they're meant to be hoplites with different armour cosmetics and a warmer native climate based on what's in the game.

---

Those aspects are in no way modified. See the first post to see the changes made to hoplites. In summary,
1. They fight in a tight, cohesive formation (phalanx) instead of spreading out in a mob.
2. They have more push (as hoplites historically did).
3. The spears are slightly shorter (approx. 8 feet now which is a more accurate length).
4. Stat changes make them harder to break from the front but more vulnerable from the rear and flanks. They also kill slower. Again this done to better represent aspects of hoplite warfare.

@hooahguy:
Glad you like it!

So, TWfanatic, when I DL the latest available version of TW First Cohort Mod and install all the files there, I'll be able to continue my Romani campaign without any problems?
I installed FC mod and I'm currently playing with that mod, so I presume there will be no problem about save game compatibility?
Can anything happen if I DL and install the latest package of the FC Mod and then add to it the "FC compatible MM's EDB file"?

BTW: TWFanatic, did You add the MM's EDB to the latest FCMod download package?
In the FCMod package available from the link in the first post of the FC thread (the "EB_First_Cohort_Phalanx_Ed.zip") I can see in the "chocolate" version the EDB file with it's size of 12932740 bytes; however, the file with MM's EDB compatible with FC Mod (package named as "EDB_compatible_with_Fanatd.zip") has the size of 12847725 bytes.
Which file is correct one?

And is the "compatible file" intended to be used in "chocolate" or "vanilla" version of the FC Mod?

And BTW: does anybody know, whether the EB 1.1 will be save game compatible? And what will be changed?
I've played some 20 years of my fine Roman campaign and I'm wondering if there's sense to continue play it in case the new EB will be non-save game compatible; though there are some things that should be corrected, like the case of joining fleets together (now I can't do that...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darth Stalin

So, TWfanatic, when I DL the latest available version of TW First Cohort Mod and install all the files there, I'll be able to continue my Romani campaign without any problems?
I installed FC mod and I'm currently playing with that mod, so I presume there will be no problem about save game compatibility?
Can anything happen if I DL and install the latest package of the FC Mod and then add to it the "FC compatible MM's EDB file"?

BTW: TWFanatic, did You add the MM's EDB to the latest FCMod download package?
In the FCMod package available from the link in the first post of the FC thread (the "EB_First_Cohort_Phalanx_Ed.zip") I can see in the "chocolate" version the EDB file with it's size of 12932740 bytes; however, the file with MM's EDB compatible with FC Mod (package named as "EDB_compatible_with_Fanatd.zip") has the size of 12847725 bytes.
Which file is correct one?

And is the "compatible file" intended to be used in "chocolate" or "vanilla" version of the FC Mod?

And BTW: does anybody know, whether the EB 1.1 will be save game compatible? And what will be changed?
I've played some 20 years of my fine Roman campaign and I'm wondering if there's sense to continue play it in case the new EB will be non-save game compatible; though there are some things that should be corrected, like the case of joining fleets together (now I can't do that...)

---

Just download and re-install the chocolate version, you'll want to anyways since I fixed a few bugs.

The EDB I posted in MM's thread which is compatible with this mod works with both versions. If you want to have the vanilla version with MM's mod, install the vanilla version then install the EDB I posted in MM's thread. So the compatible file is intended to be used in either chocolate or vanilla, but if you want chocolate, just re-download and re-install since I've included the compatible file in it and fixed some bugs.

And yes, this mod should be compatible with any campaign so long as you don't have praetorian cavalry in it. EB 1.1 will post likely not be compatible with your current campaign, as AFAIK no previous patch has been. You'd have to ask an EB member though to be sure. And regarding the fleets, that's hardcoded and there's nothing you can do about it.

Hope that helps.

This is just a quick Q., and I apologize in advance because it's a noob question, but here it is anyway: I never did try out the Karthadastim with this mod, but I know that it affects the Liby-Phoenician Infantry. What about the Libyan inf. and Poeni Citizen militia? Do the changes affect them too or are they exempt?

And yes, I AM having to re-install the mod. It's a long story but it involves a crashed computer and a re-installation of EB as well. Not a happy story to tell. :wall:

Thanks!
Well, I installed the Chocolate version and then started my current campaign. So I can reinstall Your mod, add MM's EDB and continue my campaign - huurah!r