Great Northern War. Battle of Poltava. Three Parts:
Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/v/24gQKRF9aJ0&rel=1
Part 2 https://youtube.com/watch?v=esMhRIpxhSQ
Part 3 https://www.youtube.com/v/3j5X432TESM&rel=1
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Great Northern War. Battle of Poltava. Three Parts:
Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/v/24gQKRF9aJ0&rel=1
Part 2 https://youtube.com/watch?v=esMhRIpxhSQ
Part 3 https://www.youtube.com/v/3j5X432TESM&rel=1
Ah, nationalist cinema. You really have to love the way the Swedes are portrayed as completly incompetent, while guy (main character, I assume?) is a swashbuckling hero who stood on top of battlements and had sword fights with Swedish officers while musket fire flew all around him. Not to mention both the Frenchmen speak Russian, at a period when Peter was having all his armies commands issued in French ;)
Much like in American civil war movies, you'll note, the Swedes MARCH, rather well I might add, whereas the Russians walk into battle. Hence, the Swedes are a sort of huge and evil hivemind, whereas those brave Ruskies are individual humans. You also get the menacing 'STOMP STOMP STOMP' effect when the Swedish army is marching.
And, in every engagement, the Swedes ALWAYS shoot first. The Russians, stalwart lads that they are, dont even try to get in a shot until the Swedes have let off their first cannon/musket volleys. I also saw at least two occasions of a Swede stabbing a Russian in the back (and one act of 'Grab him from behind by the neck and slit his throat, as if that'd happen during a battle), whereas the Russians always engage from the front ;)
It seems that Swedes scream loudly when they die, whereas Russians just sort of keel over.
Russian musket fire also seems decidedly more effective than the Swedes. Damn those crooked musket balls!
Also, I note that there seem to be more Swedes than Russians in the video. Wiki says that the Russians outnumbered the Swedes by about 20,000 men.
And finally, the main French character bears a strong resemblance to the historical depictions of Peter the Great.
It looks pretty nice though, but in the end its basically the Russian equivalent of the Patriot, although without Mel Gibson, which is nice.
check out BLUE WOLF re Life of Genghis Khan. For one thing, i didn't know that Mongolians speak Japanese :lipsrsealed2: , another is that the eldest son Jochi is the least favoured of all four heirs. Also Subedai's role as Temujin's advisor are minimal. Plus that an army can win battles by simply charging headlong into the fray.
nevertheless, it is an interesting movie. Go Ara is actually quite hot, plus some stuff are actually accurate (they remembered to use ponies instead of stallions). but overall, no Hollywood/Tokyowood/Bollywood movie for the mass audiences should be consider as material for history class.
Sorry to go off topic, but why does the film use the same sounds from Total Annhilation, there VERY different time periods
I didn’t even watch all of the first one to know that this is just video trip. The only thing I saw that was correct was that Charles XII is on a litter, but the litter was slung between two horses and not carried by footmen.
The assault started before dawn and the Swedes crawled into position during the night. Russian numbers as well as masses of cannon turned the tide aided by Swedish tactical errors and confusion on the part of some of the key commanders.
For what ever reasons the Swedish Army had a disdain for artillery which in the end cost them their empire.
The order of battle was:
Russia: 30,000 Infantry, 9,ooo Cavalry, 3,000 Cossacks, and more than 100 cannon.
Swedes: aprox. 9,500 Infantry, nearly 13,000 Cavalry, 5,000 Cossacks, and 32 cannon.
For the Swedes the best thing to have done was call off the attack because of too many troops being lost in the dark. Also the plan called for bypassing the redoubts and not to assault them…which they ended up doing and it cost them surprise and bogged them down subjecting them to intense cannon fire and pretty much cost them the battle.
Since the movie is presumably targeted at Russian adolescents, that's hardly surprising. From what I see from the trailer, the new Bryan Singer film Valkyrie shows that the conspirators to kill Hitler apparently all spoke English all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheogorath
Or, you know, I could just take that with a grain of salt and remember that it's a movie, not a documentary. ;)
I figure'd I'd include that on the basis that everything else was wrong, so I might as well mention language too :PQuote:
Originally Posted by derfinsterling
Although I do have to say, they had the Swedes speaking Swedish and not hooting like monkeys.
try the movie 300,or brave heart
Hard to make a decent historical film. I want to see a "Life of Cyrus" made in Old Persian. Still at least they're giving it a go.
I think the Swedes maybe de-emphasised artillery as slow and went for aggressive mobility?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherking
I think their Russian and Polish enemies had proved susceptible to the Swedes superior discipline and aggression earlier in the Northern war (and for a while before that too).
I hadn't realised there was 13,000 Swedish cav at the battle, I had thought it was about 1200.
Peter took stock of his foe: Charles was a better soldier, with better troops and better mobility but fewer numbers and fewer guns.
Peter sensibly gave him a maze of hard targets to attack (something Charles would find hard to resist), where mobility wasn't an issue and the Swedes would be exposed to prolonged artillery fire.
I think Peter deserves credit for a sensible strategy maximising his strengths (which were few) in the face of a reputedly invincible foe.
I thought that too. My source could have had that extra 0 as a type-O.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
All you said is quite true.
How do you think they find conspirators? They listen to their language of course! :idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by derfinsterling
Considering what's going on in Russia, it's hardly surprising there's a lot of nationalist propaganda movies currently...
If you want to see a great battle film on youtube, go and look up Sergei Bandarchuk's classic War and Peace (Voinya i Mir). The depiction of Borodino is just amazing.
Better yet, here is a link to one of the clips. They can be hard to find on youtube if you do not know Russian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYql...eature=related
The main reason why the Swedish army seldom relied on artillery is; Sweden had and has a very small population = a small number of soldiers. Any opponent will allmost always have more men, more horses, more artillery, more muskets = more firepower. In a stand of firefight the swedish army would invariably have the worst of it. The only chance was mobility. To get into hand-to-hand combat as fast as possible, so the firepower superiority of the enemy would be useless. You didn´t need to engage all enemy units, only to overcome some with shock-and-awe, so they started to panic. The panic would spread to other units, and the rest was, so to say, a mopping up operation for the pursuing cavalry.
A feverish king and two, by themselves, excellent generals who couldn´t cooperate, as stand-ins, was a recipy for disaster. Bungled orders made a fourth of the infantry attack the russian redoubts in earnest, instead for as the original intention was, make a diversional attack so the bulk of the army
could pass.
First the cavalry got lost during the darkness, then had a separate battle with the russian cavary. It didn´t show up for the real show until it was to late.
So contrary to military sense and tactics of the swedish army, the bulk of the same army stood in plain view and range of the russian artillery of 77 cannons, and tens of thousands muskets and waited for the remainder of the army and the missing cavalry to show up for the party, and got their behinds pounded royally, before, finally ordered to advance. Unfortunatly, no-one had told the Russians that they were supposed to panic and run...
By the way - eighteen known ancestors of my fell in that debacle and are buried somwhere under a derelict factory in Poltava.
I recall several records mentioning various European commanders being infuriated by the Russian's tendancy to not surrender. Call it what you will, but I've always been amused by the accounts of Russians making bayonette charges on cavalry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arngrim
Teh link, she is dead. May I have another?Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriVII
But thats the very reason why bayonets were invented! :beam: Not for melee fighting with other infantry, were rapier is much more handy. On the rare occasion were melee fighting took place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheogorath
But its generally regarded as a DEFENCE against cavalry, not an offensive weapon (with regard to cavalry, anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by Arngrim
I mean, you dont normally think of people charging AGAINST cavalry, even if it did happen.
You are absolutely right, but imagine a failed cavary charge who has lost momentum or broken down into a melee in the immediate vicinity af a infantry unit - it would be a golden opportunity to finish of the enemy cavalry unit, whose riders would be next to defensless against being skewered by bayonets.
Of course, i do not know what incidents you refer to. It would propable not be the brightest idea of the day to mount a frontal assault against charging cavalry.:wall: :help: :oops:
Several units during the Napoleonic Wars Russian regiments would launch attacks on French cavalry. The Pavlovsk Grenadiers were particularly famous for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arngrim
Are the Swedes speaking German? It sounds like the officer in the beginning yells "Vorwärts"...
This is supposedly a pretty crappy movie from what I've heard (and very nationalist, as has already been mentioned), but it's fun to feast in 18th century military uniforms nonetheless.
1612 looks as :daisy: as rest. Happy Russians didn't even mention about battle of Kłuszyn and Diwilno casefire :)
"When the battle opened, Charles had about 14,000 men, while Peter commanded about 45,000."
That movie must be about different battle.
But I laughed a lot so this might make nice comedy series.
14 000 are enough to make it hard to calculate how many men are on the field. This way Swedes won some of the battles: they were outnumbered heavily, but russians thought that they are the ones, who are outnumbered, thus soon surrendered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian Seth
Also, even 3 times less enemy's can be frightening, when you now that they are almost unbeatable.
And the fact, that in the movie Charles calls his reinforcements near the end of the battle, is not confusing. At the start of the battle he had less troops, but he probably managed to fight russians with 500 men until that moment:laugh4:
Overall, if any of you think that this is one-sided film, then you don't really know russian cinema. This is probably the most equitable movie they have ever made. I was actually positively surprised, when I saw it, I expected that it will be total propaganda.
But of course, you can't tell much just from the few moments of the film (the battle). I have seen it whole.
good movie
To me slightly entertaining, but not impressive. I only watched the first part and got bored and later even disgusted by the quality.
What is that supposed to mean? You saying Russia is incorparated by propaganda flyers and patriotic movies? No my friend, you are misinformed.
And of the Czarist times, even. Go Putin!Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius Merobaudes
A waste of human resources :no:
I have very nice pics with 18th century Russian Army:
Russian Infantry (Peter the Great's Army)
https://img89.imageshack.us/img89/95...ntryvr6.th.jpg
Pikemen:
https://img150.imageshack.us/img150/...emenjw3.th.jpg
Drummer:
https://img180.imageshack.us/img180/...mmerzs0.th.jpg
Officer:
https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/...icerut1.th.jpg
Fusiliers:
https://img159.imageshack.us/img159/...potadi6.th.jpg
https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/...iersoj1.th.jpg
Ah... yes. I have watched that video before. Sort of like The Patriot as mentioned earlier. :yes:
That is truly impressive. I never heard of bayonet charges on cavalry before. That is extremely brave, and a lot of admiration for the Pavlovsk Grenadiers. Could you post the name of the battle when this occurred?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheogorath
Sweden lost this battle. But if Sweden won this battle Russia would be crushed. Because we won the other battles such as The Battle of Narva, the swedes was 10000 and the russians 40000 at that time. But Russians got better generals and stronger infantary. So at 1709 Sweden lost the battle of Poltava, that made Sweden weaker and weaker. But we got stronger after 80 years.
i mean, the russians got better generals after the battle of such as narva, we won 2 great victorys more, but cant remember the names:P. but after the battles the russians got better generals, so sweden was suprised and lost this battle,Quote:
Originally Posted by disamen
I was under the impression that there was nothing about the Russian army that could compete with the Swedish army. Sweden had, at the time, one of the best armies in Europe. Small, but close to invincible.Quote:
Originally Posted by disamen
The movie is an insult to Sweden. It shows Swedish soldiers raping, murdering women, burning villages, etc. Yeah, right. Im sure Sweden would have burned, and raped, and murdered, like any army, but the Russians beat us to it. Scorched earth. Destroyed their own land. Nothing of this is shown in the movie. And how come the Swedish army seems to be greater in number? Sweden had 10,000 troops against Peters 48,000. This movie is insulting. And the Swedes speak swedish very poorly with a russian accent.
:furious3:
Necro-posting in old threads is generally a no-no, especially when it wasn't really talking about the game in the first place. This thread should have been allowed to die a natural death.
Closed. :dancinglock: