MiniMe Temporary Pre-1.1 EDB alteration

Dear EB fans!
As some of you've already mentioned, current 1.0 recruitment is not complete.
Some units that did made it to custombattles/multiplayer are not recruitable in campaign.

To solve this matter I've made temporary alterations to 1.0. EDB. These alterations are savecompatible and you can continue your current campaign with them applyed.

If somebody would like to use this file for his own minimod, he (or she) is welcome to do it. And if you'll notify me on this (which is completely not required or expected) I'll will continue to provide you with my latest version for your further modifications afterwards.

Filefront link zip pack export_descr_buildings.txt http://files.filefront.com/export+de.../fileinfo.html

Attention: TW Fanatic minimod includes this EDB as base and if you have his minimod installed you don't need to download this file. We agreed to cooperate and I'm going to continue to provide him with my latest version for his further modifications.

If you know of any other recruitment issues that did not made it to 1.0. please post them in this tread and I will make additional alterations.
Please, note - this is not a modification, I'm not going to change AOR, only thing I'm going to do is give factions possibility to recruit their units in campaign in the recruitment areas they are expected to be and are recruited by other factions (poeni infantry units in sydon for carthies would be the only exeption)
Best regards
MiniMe

sunday

Carthage, AS
arabian light cavalry - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
arabian slingers - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
arabian light infantry - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopean light spearmen - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopean archers - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopean cavalry - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopian swordsmen - regional MIC level 4-5 (same AOR as the rest of ethiopeans)

Baktria
arabian light cavalry - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
arabian slingers - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
arabian light infantry - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopean light spearmen - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopean archers - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopian swordsmen - regional MIC level 4-5 (same AOR as the rest of ethiopeans)

Ptolemaioi
ethiopian swordsmen - regional MIC level 4-5 (same AOR as the rest of ethiopeans)

Saba
ethiopian swordsmen - own MIC level 4-5 (same AOR as the rest of ethiopeans)

08.12.07

Pahlavans
The Pahlava own MIC level 5 had impossible requirements to build. JMRC's fix conditions applyed

Pontus
klerouchikoi phalangitai- regional MIC level 3-5 (instead of 4-5)

Ptolemaioi, Saba
african infantry ethiopiai agemata due to thier late appearence is now recruitable only after vanilla marian reforms (thanx Cirdandharix for idea)

07.12.07

Epeiros, Makedon, Rome
syracuse hoplitai - regional MIC level 3-5 (AOR: Syracuse)

Carthage
poeni militia - own MIC level 1-5 (Sydon added to AOR)
sacred band infantry - own MIC level 5 (Sydon added to AOR)

Ptolemaioi
african infantry ethiopiai agemata - own MIC level 4-5 (AOR: Memphis and Alexandria)

Saba
african infantry ethiopiai agemata - regional MIC level 4-5 in (AOR: Memphis and Alexandria)
(sidenote: these are back due to Wolfman request, enjoy them while you can, they not gonna make it in 1.1. And, since they are Agema, therefore - personal ptolemaioi guard, I've made them recruitable in the greatest ptolemaioi cities only, not southern jungle)

KH
shortpike phalanx Iphikratous Hoplitai AOR is slightly increased and now matches AOR of shortpike phalanx Thorakitai Hoplitai


05.12.07

Epeiros
greek infantry thorakitai - own MIC level 4-5 (KH AOR as base)
greek infantry pheraspidai - own MIC level 5 (Makedon AOR as base)
greek infantry hypaspistai - own MIC level 5 (Makedon AOR as base)

Ptolemaioi
arabian light cavalry - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
arabian slingers - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
arabian light infantry - regional MIC level 1-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopean light spearmen - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopean archers - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
ethiopean cavalry - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base)
red sea hoplites - regional MIC level 3-5 (Sabean AOR as base) (though they are greeks, nevertheless they are citizens-hoplites that's why - regional)

Are you sure you want this to be in the tech help forum? It seems to me to fit better in the unofficial mods section. Not to chase you away though.

I think you're right.
Can I ask you to move this tread to the unofficial mods subforum then?

Please have mercy! :wall: 12mb non-zipped txt file!! :skull:

sorry, mate =)
first post updated: + zip package link

Lgk... :laugh4:

oh... I had my laugh :san_grin:

I remmember when I had dial-up... my god, it makes me wanna :chucks:

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Not Found
The requested URL /dl was not found on this server.

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:(

Besides txt link works fine... but not zip...

zip link is fine, please, try again

methinks it was server error...
now it worked, thanks!

great, thanks MM.
will download it tonight
:balloon2:

Sarkiss, my guess is you're playing Hayasdan or Pahlavan campaign and you are familiar with their unit roster and recruitment areas ;-)
Any gaps similar to Epeiros Pheraspidai or Ptolemaioi Ethiopeans?

If you play Baktria you can get Klerouchoi Phalangitai (Hellenic Medium Phalanx)
form your region Mic and form faction Mic but just in some region, don´t now if is bug.

Question: If I already have a level 5 MIC, do I have to tear it down and rebuild it to access Pheraspidai and Hypaspistai?

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

Sarkiss, my guess is you're playing Hayasdan or Pahlavan campaign and you are familiar with their unit roster and recruitment areas ;-)
Any gaps similar to Epeiros Pheraspidai or Ptolemaioi Ethiopeans?

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yep, there is a strange hole in recruitment at the start of the Armenian campaign when you cannot get Armenian spearmen in Armavir from the beginning, but can in Mtskheta (sp.) straight after capturing it without having to build any barracks, from the ones that already there.
that is all i remember atm. eagerly waiting for 1.1 to start Hai campaign anew:beam:
thanks

EDIT:
just to explain more clearly. it makes no sense: Armavir - Armenia Proper, Mtskheta - Khartli. if anything, it should be vice versa - Armenian spearmen available in Armavir from the start and in Kartli after baracks upgrade.

According to the recruitment viewer, Carthage can't recruit anything except for catapults and mercenary generals in their Homeland province of Phoinike. Except for Syria, the whole eastern mediterrean coast and everything down to modern Jemen has almost no units to recruit. That doesn't seem right for a faction with lvl1 and lvl2 government there.

As far as I have seen in custom battles, all Ethiopean and Arabian units should also be accesible by the Seleucids/Pontus/Armenia/well, everybody.
The Red-Sea hoplites could also be available to the Seleucids, they are greeks after all. But I can't remember if the AS have them in their custom battles roster...

Wow, thanx to everybody for raising these questions
I'm going to answer them all a bit later today (dinner time)

all but one most urgent

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Originally Posted by Elphir

Question: If I already have a level 5 MIC, do I have to tear it down and rebuild it to access Pheraspidai and Hypaspistai?

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No

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Originally Posted by Kepper

If you play Baktria you can get Klerouchoi Phalangitai (Hellenic Medium Phalanx)
form your region Mic and form faction Mic but just in some region, don´t now if is bug.

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Klerouchikoi Phalangitai AOR of different factions is one the biggest 1.0 mysteries. Greys and Yellows can recruit them as far as in western Spain an northern France. Blue can recruit them in their own MICs and regional MICs in their own provinces and Middle East respectively. And glorious kingdom of Pontus is not able to recruit them at all, though according to EDU they own them also.
Other mystery is the relation between AOR of Pezhetairoi and KH phalangitai. for some reasons Epeiros is not able to recruit middleclass longpikemen citizens in Taras, and in the same time KH can do that. Why?.. I don't know.
I will pay serious attention to this matter but only after 1.1. is out and make one AOR for Klerouchikoi Phalangitai for all factions and limit it to eastern hemishere (egypt and aravia included) only. For Greek/makedon middleclass citizen phalanx combined AOR there will be. And many more thoughts about the rest of the phalanx I have but all of them for 1.1 I keep =)

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Originally Posted by Sarkiss

yep, there is a strange hole in recruitment at the start of the Armenian campaign when you cannot get Armenian spearmen in Armavir from the beginning, but can in Mtskheta (sp.) straight after capturing it without having to build any barracks, from the ones that already there.
that is all i remember atm. eagerly waiting for 1.1 to start Hai campaign anew:beam:
thanks
just to explain more clearly. it makes no sense: Armavir - Armenia Proper, Mtskheta - Khartli. if anything, it should be vice versa - Armenian spearmen available in Armavir from the start and in Kartli after baracks upgrade.

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Sarkiss, I have to ask you: do you actually understand, how many armenians live in Tbiliso? :clown:
Ok, jokes aside. We could solve this problem
either 1. removing Kartli from Armenian spearmen AOR at all;
or 2. downgrading Mtskheta MIC;
or 3. upgrading Armavir.
Making the choice is up to you.

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Originally Posted by Meothar

According to the recruitment viewer, Carthage can't recruit anything except for catapults and mercenary generals in their Homeland province of Phoinike. Except for Syria, the whole eastern mediterrean coast and everything down to modern Jemen has almost no units to recruit. That doesn't seem right for a faction with lvl1 and lvl2 government there.

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Meothar, I completely agree with you on this matter. However, the problem is: Carthies don't own any of current Phoinike inhabitants that consist of Pantodapoi, Ioudai Taxeis and Klerouchoi Phalangitai. Well, the only way out of this is to give Carthies possibility to recruit in Phoinike their units of poeni blood - Poeni Citizen militia and... Sacred Band Infantry (why not, after all this was their motherland). Adding also Poeni Citizen and Sacred Band Cavalry will be too much, I'm afraid, cause Phoinike is not a "cavalry" province IMO.

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Originally Posted by Basileus Seleukeia

As far as I have seen in custom battles, all Ethiopean and Arabian units should also be accesible by the Seleucids/Pontus/Armenia/well, everybody.

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Yep, looks like we accidentally discovered not a Minor Ptolemaioi recruitment gap but a Major Everybody Arabian/Ethiopean recruitmant gap. I'll deal with it

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The Red-Sea hoplites could also be available to the Seleucids, they are greeks after all. But I can't remember if the AS have them in their custom battles roster...

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No they are not, according to EDU AS don't own them.

En suma:
Till this saturday I wiil add to EDB following alterations:
1. Poeni Citizen militia and Sacred Band Infantry for Carthies own MIC in Phoinike;
2. Arabian/ethiopean units for all factions;
...and last but not the least...
3. Syracuse Hoplite for Epeiros, Makedon and Roman regional MICs in Syracuse

If you happen to find any other recruitment matters to discuss, please post them here.
Best regards
MiniMe.

For clarity, does this "mod" include JMRC's optional Pahlava MIC 5 fix as discussed in the 1.0 fixes thread? If not, can you produce a version including that change to the EDB for those of us who fear the wall of text? :beam: Many thanks for undertaking this work.

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

2. Arabian/ethiopean units for all factions;

If you happen to find any other recruitment matters to discuss, please post them here

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Please fix that unrecruitable (forgotten by EB team) "ethiopian swordsmen" unit as well. Methinks it can use exactly the same "recruit" strings in EDB as "ethiopian cavalry" ones (except the name itself, of course).

Sarkiss, I have to ask you: do you actually understand, how many armenians live in Tbiliso?
Ok, jokes aside. We could solve this problem
either 1. removing Kartli from Armenian spearmen AOR at all;
or 2. downgrading Mtskheta MIC;
or 3. upgrading Armavir.
Making the choice is up to you

yeah, there is a big Community in Vrastan:)
i think it is the best to upgrade Armavir.
thanks

There are several regions where KH can recruit the (elite) Thorakitai Phalanx but not it's basic version (Iphikratians). The other way round would be understandable, but because the Thorakitai are not a reform unit, I don't see a reason why they are more common than the respective citizens' phalanx.

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Originally Posted by Sarkiss

i think it is the best to upgrade Armavir.

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I've just understood that to change that I have to mess with another file, not EDB. Since I'd like my work to be useful to all those who edit defferent files (Konny as one of them for example) I'm not going to add descr_strat to my pack.
sorry mate :shame:

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Originally Posted by konny

There are several regions where KH can recruit the (elite) Thorakitai Phalanx but not it's basic version (Iphikratians). The other way round would be understandable, but because the Thorakitai are not a reform unit, I don't see a reason why they are more common than the respective citizens' phalanx.

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Yep.
Would you like me to
1. increase Iphikratians AOR
or
2. decrease Thorakitai Phalanx AOR?

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

Would you like me to
1. increase Iphikratians AOR
or
2. decrease Thorakitai Phalanx AOR?

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Increase Iphikratians please.

no problem

More alterations made, first post link and description update.
more (of what we've been discussing) to follow. sooner or later
Best regards
MiniMe

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

I've just understood that to change that I have to mess with another file, not EDB. Since I'd like my work to be useful to all those who edit defferent files (Konny as one of them for example) I'm not going to add descr_strat to my pack.
sorry mate :shame:

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oh, i see.
hopefully it will be addressed in 1.1 which is again, hopefully, not far away.

Perhaps you could also solve the Seleucid Elephantes Indiokoi AOR problem.
The Armored version is accesible through AS's Factional MIC in all sensible regions: Syria,Baktria and India. But the unarmored version is only available through teh factional MIC of Syria, but in all other regions they can only be recruited via regional baracks
Edit: And btw, Pontos can recruit kleruchoi phalangitai, they need a level 4 regional barrack in the provinces that are marked in the recruitment viewer.

How do I combine this file with TW Fanatic's phalanx/cohort/elephant minimod? :/

Minime, could you please upload the file on filefront? Uploaded.com is having problems with my browser.

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Originally Posted by Basileus Seleukeia

Perhaps you could also solve the Seleucid Elephantes Indiokoi AOR problem.
The Armored version is accesible through AS's Factional MIC in all sensible regions: Syria,Baktria and India. But the unarmored version is only available through teh factional MIC of Syria, but in all other regions they can only be recruited via regional baracks

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that may be a misplacement or may be intentional. I'll have to check what kind of government is available for greys in india
EDIT LATER
Greys can't build level 2 Government in India, it was intentional

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Edit: And btw, Pontos can recruit kleruchoi phalangitai, they need a level 4 regional barrack in the provinces that are marked in the recruitment viewer.

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Oh! thanx for the tip, very intresting. I wonder if this was intentional. Must be...

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Minime, could you please upload the file on filefront? Uploaded.com is having problems with my browser.

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EDIT LATER: DONE

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

How do I combine this file with TW Fanatic's phalanx/cohort/elephant minimod? :/

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TW Fanatic's minimod uses his own EDB. I'll ask him to upload it for me and see what can I do

MiniMe I just installed your mod and when I clicked the EB shortcut the Loading screen appeared for a few seconds then crashed with this error message.

Script Error in EB/Data/EDB/ line 9517 column61 unknown unit type specified roman calvary eqvites praetoriani.

I believe you have TW Fanatic's minimod preinstalled, right?
TWF removed pretorian cavalry from his minimod at all, while in my EDB they still exist.
Currently my EDB and TW Fanatic's minimod are incompatible, I'll contact him, and see what we can do.
Before that you can either play with my EDB either with his minimod
sorry mate :shame:

BTW: I'm running my campaigns with my EDB for hours. Nothing crashes, that's why I'm so sure.

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

More alterations made, first post link and description update.
more (of what we've been discussing) to follow. sooner or later
Best regards
MiniMe

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Thank you very much! Looking foreward to my next KH campaign without classical Hoplites as the core unit

Oh, sooner or later you'll see that classical Hoplites are indispensable (before you'll get your hands on shining longpikes). Very good unit these classics are.
BTW, have you seen the incredible KH adventures in your "win_conditions" topic? Dudes are hyper-active

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

Oh, sooner or later you'll see that classical Hoplites are indispensable (before you'll get your hands on shining longpikes). Very good unit these classics are.

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Oh yes, I am hughe fan of these guys since I had a complete army of them in one of my Pontic campaigns. In KH campaigns I usually end up with the same army. But next time I will try to use a more historical army and don't want to take on the battleflieds of the 3rd Century with an army of 5th Century.

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BTW, have you seen the incredible KH adventures in your "win_conditions" topic? Dudes are hyper-active

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Ups that's new, will take a look.

Ahhh! Yes I have TWfanatics mod installed. Well let me uninstall it.

More alterations made, first post link and description update.
more (of what we've been discussing) to follow. sooner or later
Best regards
MiniMe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

I believe you have TW Fanatic's minimod preinstalled, right?
TWF removed pretorian cavalry from his minimod at all, while in my EDB they still exist.
Currently my EDB and TW Fanatic's minimod are incompatible, I'll contact him, and see what we can do.
Before that you can either play with my EDB either with his minimod
sorry mate :shame:

BTW: I'm running my campaigns with my EDB for hours. Nothing crashes, that's why I'm so sure.

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Well, I haven't hit Marian yet so maybe it'll still be ok? lol

Looking forward to this mod.

Here you are lads!

http://files.filefront.com/EDB+compa.../fileinfo.html

This is compatible with my mod. I hope MM can forgive me for modifying and releasing his intellectual property.

It looks great btw, I'll be sure to try it out.~:thumb:

Whaaat? Another revision of ethiopian agema, but no ethiopian swordsmen still?!

MiniMe, did you ever noticed my previous post? Pay attention, pls! ;)

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Originally Posted by TWFanatic

Here you are lads!
http://files.filefront.com/EDB+compa.../fileinfo.html
This is compatible with my mod. I hope MM can forgive me for modifying and releasing his intellectual property.

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Hey, you did exactly what I was hoping you would =)

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Originally Posted by Lgk

Whaaat? Another revision of ethiopian agema, but no ethiopian swordsmen still?!

MiniMe, did you ever noticed my previous post? Pay attention, pls! ;)

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Sorry, Lgk, I did noticed your previous post and I agree with you that these swordsmen need to be added, I just had no time left, Greys were sieging my cities constantly. This would be the top priority, but tomorrow ;-)
Best regards
MiniMe.

Minime, the problem with the elephants is that, as it is now, the Greys can't recruit armoured elephants in India, and can't recruit unarmoured ones in Baktria if having anything better than a type 3 government.
And did you contact the team about the pontic kleruchoi phalangitai? I don't think it is an oversight that they need a type 3 government for them.

Today I am going to finish with ethiopian and aravian units for east greeks and saba. Noone else actually needs those and my job on ethiopian-aravian gap will be over.

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Originally Posted by Basileus Seleukeia

Minime, the problem with the elephants is that, as it is now, the Greys can't recruit armoured elephants in India, and can't recruit unarmoured ones in Baktria if having anything better than a type 3 government.

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Elephant recruitment will be my next priority, but don't expext me to apply radical changes.

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And did you contact the team about the pontic kleruchoi phalangitai? I don't think it is an oversight that they need a type 3 government for them.

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About Pontus... Never played them, had no idea of their recruitment and was very surprised to see that half their greek units is recruited through own MIC and the other half is recruited through regional MIC. Does not seem to be right. Have to seriously think about it. My first thought is to move all greek units to regonal MIC cause I see Pontus as Baktria mirror image (easterlings heavy influenced by greeks versus greeks heavy influenced by easterlings).
BTW, is it Ok say "easterlings"? I don't see anything bad in this word, do you?
And: I don't like situations, when level 4 unit is available only from level 5 MIC (example: unarmored eles for Epeiros) or level 3 unit is available only from level 4 MIC.
Let's put it this way: I would like to see the whole recruitment system based on common rules and principles. I understand that there have to be some exeptions but not too many.
About contacts with EB team: due to my poor English knowledge, emotional way of expressing myself and tactlessness every time I am trying to start or continue a conversation on some arguable issue I always manage to hurt someones feelings. That why I'm not going to do it anymore.
Best regards
MiniMe.

More alterations made, first post link and description update.
more (of what we've been discussing) to follow. sooner or later
Best regards
MiniMe

P.S.: Very intrested in your opinion on Pontos specific recruitment of greek units (see post above)

Pontos is made a very "Persian" by the recruitement system. It is up to the players roleplaying the faction to judge if that is right or if it is not right. IMHO she is more a Hellenic faction, especially because her homelands are all lands with a large Greek population. The problem is basicly the very strict way the building tree handles Pontic MIC building. You have either completly stick to locals or to factionals, there is no 'Golden Middle', like for other factions when a Level II Governement still allows for a Level III local MIC and a level IV factional MIC.

I would prefer to have the Successor units in the factional MICs and some of the Persian units, in particular those that are not be had in Asia Minor, in the local MICs to make it more a "Pergamon-Thrakian" faction than a "Armenia-Parthian" one. But I am sure other players also have good arguments why it should be the way it is now.

Minime, could you please also update the version that is compatible to TWF's mod and then host it? Just made a total fresh reinstall of EB and now I want to play some Epeiros with Thorakitai and Hypaspistai!:2thumbsup:

Unfortunately, I've lost TWF file and his link so I can't while he's absent.
I suggest you keep playing his old minimod version for now, after he's back on forum, he'll add my newest to his minimod and you would be able to continue your campaign

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Originally Posted by Basileus Seleukeia

[...]pontic kleruchoi phalangitai? I don't think it is an oversight that they need a type 3 government for them.

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ISTM they are a creation of the Daidochi governments, given land grants in return for service, and the men are mostly ethnically hellenic. They are inherent to their location and they have a bond to the specific government that imported them. For Pontos to recruit them (at least straight away) would be taking over a local institution. So I see a good reason for making them regional.

As for the regional MIC being level 4, I don't buy that in itself -- why should Pontos need 67% more buildings to train pikemen than the AS do? But a level 4 MIC requires a level 3 or 4 government, i.e accomodation of the local way of life, and I do buy that as a cultural requirement for Pontos to take over this semi-feudal relationship with the troops. So level 4 makes an indirect sort of sense to me.

Now for the tricky bit... I see no reason Pontos shouldn't eventually have created their own Klereuchoi Phalangitai from level 3 factional MICs, if they'd got big and decided to copy the "land for pike duties system" for themselves. It seems especially plausible if they conquered the recruiting areas, which they didn't do in history but might do in the game. But that would need some sort of reform trigger, or a new recruiting principle that permits change over time.

At the end of the day though, this seems like a judgement call and a question of your goals. Do you want the mod to be historical, i.e. to reflect what actually happened? Or should it be realistic, i.e. what might reasonably have happened if things had played out differently after 272? The EB team are hardcore historical, but not all the players are.

Me, I'd make 'em level 3 regional but include a note about it. Let players decide whether to build them out of govt 2 + R-MIC 3 or voluntarily restrict themselves to govt 3 + R-MIC 4. Me, I'd play govt 3 + R-MIC 3.

[I think Pontos aren't going to conquer any of their recruiting zones under AI control, so there's no worry about facing them when you shouldn't.]

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Originally Posted by TWFanatic

Here you are lads!

http://files.filefront.com/EDB+compa.../fileinfo.html

This is compatible with my mod. I hope MM can forgive me for modifying and releasing his intellectual property.

It looks great btw, I'll be sure to try it out.~:thumb:

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What aspects are changed? Since your version doesn't have Praetorian cavalry and his does have Praetorian cavalry. (I hope this is save game compatible with pre-Marian Roman campaigns)

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Originally Posted by Morte66

Now for the tricky bit... I see no reason Pontos shouldn't eventually have created their own Klereuchoi Phalangitai from level 3 factional MICs, if they'd got big and decided to copy the "land for pike duties system" for themselves. It seems especially plausible if they conquered the recruiting areas, which they didn't do in history but might do in the game. But that would need some sort of reform trigger, or a new recruiting principle that permits change over time.

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On the other hand, in EB Pontos can recruit levy Phalanxes and the elite version. Only the medium one is missing. So, if we say that Pontos cannot recruit the Klereuchoi because that requires a Successor kind of governement/military constitution, we can very well assume that Pontos would be able to field her own version of a medium phalanx.

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Originally Posted by konny

...more a "Pergamon-Thrakian" faction than a "Armenia-Parthian" one...

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very good point, Konny. Actually, exactly these words are what stops me from converting Pontos to be an eastern faction...
On the other hand, we have as much as six greek factions in the game already...
Not that I'm wiling to create a weak armenian clone...
perhaps the best would be to leave it as it is? At least, for now...

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

What aspects are changed? Since your version doesn't have Praetorian cavalry and his does have Praetorian cavalry. (I hope this is save game compatible with pre-Marian Roman campaigns)

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He only edits the EDB. All I've done is add the first cohort units to the recruitment list and remove the praetorian cavalry.

Taken from my First Cohort/Phalanx/Elephant/Chariot minimod thread:

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Originally Posted by me

I have added MiniMe's Temporary Pre-1.1 EDB alteration to the chocolate version (vanilla still just has the changes mentioned for the Romans) and will continue to update the download every time MM makes a new release of his mod. In addition, I have fixed a small mistake I made in the EDU...let's just say that your hoplites will now have a lot more PUSH.

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So you'll want to download my mod again. It has the latest version of MM's mod.

Cheers to MM for being cooperative.

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

very good point, Konny. Actually, exactly these words are what stops me from converting Pontos to be an eastern faction...
On the other hand, we have as much as six greek factions in the game already...

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That is right. On the other hand, the starting position of Pontos doesn't allow for much more than becoming Hegemon of the Asian and Black Sea Greeks. Everything else would mean to "Alexander" the Seleucids, with the starting army of Pontos in EB(!), and head into Mesopotamia. That is nigh impossible. So, most of the times the player will start marching along the Southern Black Sea, taking Nikaia, Byzantion, Pergamon, Sinope, Trapezunt and will build up his little empire before messing up with the big dogs. Therefore it could be good if the Greek units are also a part of the Pontic factional line up.

I think I found another unit that has recruitment problems in Eb 1.0, the Indo-Iranian light cavalry: In custom battles nearly every faction has them, but according to the recruitment viewer only Baktria and Pahlava can recruit them.
And I'm not sure if you already added the Red-Sea light infantry to the eastern factions, in custom battles they are widely available.

Thanx for spotting this out, Basileus Seleukeia.
I will deal with these AS problems in a couple of days
Best regards
MiniMe

As Makedonia, in western Asia Minor - Halikarnassos, Sardis etc, I can recruit Silver Shields but not Pezhetaroi (exactly the same as the KH recruitment of elite pike phalanx, but not the basic ones). I realise there is probably a good historical reason for this i.e. what social class the troop types came from etc, but it does seem a little odd.
I can also recruit the levy phalanx but that seems pretty much ok, though it should really peter out and native phalanx should come in fairly soon after getting past the Mak borders.

Makedonians don't have Pantodapoi Phalangitai, they share their modell with the deuteroi. Stupid hardcode-problem.

So, TWfanatic and MM, when I DL the latest available version of TW First Cohort Mod and install all the files there, I'll be able to continue my Romani campaign without any problems?
I installed FC mod and I'm currently playing with that mod, so I presume there will be no problem about save game compatibility?
Can anything happen if I DL and install the latest package of the FC Mod and then add to it the "FC compatible MM's EDB file"?

BTW: TWFanatic, did You add the MM's EDB to the latest FCMod download package?
In the FCMod package available from the link in the first post of the FC thread (the "EB_First_Cohort_Phalanx_Ed.zip") I can see in the "chocolate" version the EDB file with it's size of 12932740 bytes; however, the file with MM's EDB compatible with FC Mod (package named as "EDB_compatible_with_Fanatd.zip") has the size of 12847725 bytes.
Which file is correct one?

And is the "compatible file" intended to be used in "chocolate" or "vanilla" version of the FC Mod?

EDIT

:laugh4:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

:laugh4:

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right. grammar :laugh4:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

That is right. On the other hand, the starting position of Pontos doesn't allow for much more than becoming Hegemon of the Asian and Black Sea Greeks. Everything else would mean to "Alexander" the Seleucids, with the starting army of Pontos in EB(!), and head into Mesopotamia. That is nigh impossible. So, most of the times the player will start marching along the Southern Black Sea, taking Nikaia, Byzantion, Pergamon, Sinope, Trapezunt and will build up his little empire before messing up with the big dogs. Therefore it could be good if the Greek units are also a part of the Pontic factional line up.

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For this very reason I wish the Pontics used the eastern greek UI rather than the Eastern one.

Ok, that's it for now.
I suspend further alterations before 1.1 is out (catholic christmas, I assume)
The main questions (heavy infantry for epeiros and southeastern recruitment gap for Carthage and Eastern greeks) plus little extra (syracusans of Syracuse, poenis of Phoinike,...) were solved.
After 1.1. I'm back to examine the issues of:
1. longpikemen recruitment areas;
2. pontus dualistic recruitment of greeks (I guess, we need to remove all left greeks from foreign MIC and move them to own MIC, need to know your opinion/approval/disapproval on that, please);
3. elephants;
4. close southeastern recruitment gap for the rest of the factions even though they don't really need it
Best regards
MiniMe

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FileFront returns error. Will you upload to zshare.net please? :help:
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No problem
http://www.zshare.net/download/55620458ad9a48/
However, filefront link is fine.

Best regards
MiniMe

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I suspect it's a network/pipeline problem on this side of the globe.

Thanks! :bow:
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On Pontos again.

I think to better display a faction that payed large effords in keeping a good balance between "Greeks" and "Persians", and taking into account that their heartlands are in central Asia Minor, I would propose the following changes to their recruitement pool:

Units that are now factional but should be regional:

Asabaran-i Hauravatish (Arachosian Skirmisher Cav)
Gund-i Nizagan (Parthian Spearmen)
Kardaka Arteshtar (Persian Hoplites)
Khuveshavagan (Kinsmen)
Nizagan-i Eranshahr (Archer-Spearmen)
Shivatir-i Pahlavanig (Parthian HA)
Thanvare Payahdag (Persian Archers)

Some of them are only recruitable on the other side of the AS Empire and certainly don't have any meaning for a Kappadokian faction.

Units that are now regional but should be factional:

Hoplitai Haploi
Akontistai
Toxotai
Sphendonetai
Peltastai
Hoplitai
Lonchophoroi Hippeis
Klerouchoi Phalangitai

The Greek line up. The Klerouchoi are certainly not the best sollution I can think of, but Pontos should at least have partial access to a medium Phalanx by factional MICs.

Katpatuka Zanteush (Kappadokian Hillmen)

There is no reason why the (Kappadokian) Pontics can recruite Kappadokian cavalry but not the local infantry.

Asiatikoi Hippakontistai
Asiatikoi Hippeis

Debatable. They are not pure Anatolian units, but I think these together with the Pantodapoi Phalangitai are the perfect symbiosis between Greek and Asian military - typical Pontic, if you like.

Anatolikoi Phyletai

When we have an "Anatolian" faction than it is Pontos. On the other hand, changing the EDB entries for these guys is not worth the efford because they are about the same as the Katpatuka Zanteush - only weaker.


Comments, if you please?

If you decide to change Persian hoplites and Kinsmen into regionals you'd have to build a Philhellenic satrapy there, which honestley doesn't make much sense. A Persian Satrapy, as you need it now to get them, would be much more suitable. You also have to regard that the Kings of Pontos were strongly hellenised, but still saw themselves as Persians open to hellenic culture. So they would also have liked to appease their Persian/Native subjects, perhaps with a slight intention of hellenising them. If you keep this in mind, then you'll see that the Pontics would have tried to support at least the Kinsmen, to please their old, traditionalistic Persian subjects. If that should also be the case for the Persian hoplites is debatable.
Edit: And regarding the Kleruchoi Phalangitai: If not even the Makedones and Eperioteans can recruit them in their factional MIC, why should Pontos? I think it is enough to make them available at a level 3 local MIC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Basileus Seleukeia

If you decide to change Persian hoplites and Kinsmen into regionals you'd have to build a Philhellenic satrapy there, which honestley doesn't make much sense. A Persian Satrapy, as you need it now to get them, would be much more suitable.

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Laying aside the naming of the governemental buildings, the problem is that Pontos can not recruite any factional units above Level 1 under a governement lesser Level II. The recruitement pool does not match with the homeland zones. For example in neighbouring Bithynia (homeland) Pontos is only able to raise three units out of their factional pool, everything else has to be regional.

Quote:

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You also have to regard that the Kings of Pontos were strongly hellenised, but still saw themselves as Persians open to hellenic culture. So they would also have liked to appease their Persian/Native subjects, perhaps with a slight intention of hellenising them. If you keep this in mind, then you'll see that the Pontics would have tried to support at least the Kinsmen, to please their old, traditionalistic Persian subjects. If that should also be the case for the Persian hoplites is debatable.

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Both units (or the people that fought in that manner) live far outside the Pontic heartlands. Appart from the Thureophoroi (strange decision: Peltastai - no, Thureophoroi - yes), the Chalkaspidai and the Pantodapoi Phalangitai the faction is nearly 100% "Persian" by units and in no way a mixture of both cultures. That is certainly not correct.

Quote:

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Edit: And regarding the Kleruchoi Phalangitai: If not even the Makedones and Eperioteans can recruit them in their factional MIC, why should Pontos? I think it is enough to make them available at a level 3 local MIC.

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because

a) Makedonia and Epeiros are Western Greek and have nothing to do with the Klerouchoi.
b) Pontos has a levy Phalanx (Panto) and an elite Phalanx (Chalkas). A faction that has her military so far Hellenized that it uses levy Phalanxes on a large scale and has her elite fight in a Phalanx should also be able to field a medium Phalanx as backbone of her army.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

The Greek line up.

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So, greeks and natives of Asia Minor - own,
Parhians and the rest of easterlings - native.
...
Agree with you on all but one - classic hoplites.
To my understanding chaps like Thureophoroi and Kleruchoi Phalangitai are state soldiers, while classic hoplites are good old-fashioned self-organised local militia, and you can't recruit both kinds from same barracks. At least that's how it goes with all eastern greeks, and we here finally begin to understand that is is precisely eastern greeks that have most common with Pontos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

Agree with you on all but one - classic hoplites.
To my understanding chaps like Thureophoroi and Kleruchoi Phalangitai are state soldiers, while classic hoplites are good old-fashioned self-organised local militia, and you can't recruit both kinds from same barracks

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Yes, very good. That should also go for the Haploi who represent the same militia force from a poorer class (according to the description). In this case Pontos has to stick to Pantodapoi for militia.

That would make for the Hellenistic part of the army of Pontos:

Hippakontistai
Pantodapoi
Akontistai
Toxotai
Sphendonetai
Peltastai
Thureophoroi
Pantodapoi Phalangitai
Lonchophoroi Hippeis
Klerouchoi Phalangitai
Chalkaspides

That should do for a Asian faction that ended as "the last defender of Greece".

Agreed
When exactly is Catholic Cristmas?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

When exactly is Catholic Cristmas?

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December 25

The Caetrannan (Lusotani light unit) has a different skin from which it shows on the unit card, in the battle field is one, in the campaing map is another
a guy told me the skin in the battle field is the one that is wrong, and need to be fixed, to let the image on the unit card identical to the one in the battle field


PLEASE DON'T FORGET TO FIX THIS EB TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:help: :help: :help: :help:

Sorry mate, but you post in the wrong place.
This subforum is "Unofficial modding projects" we here are nothing but amauters (and BTW, in this tread we deal with compeletely different file)
you need to post you bug report here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=127

2Callicles: thanx :yes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

Sorry mate, but you post in the wrong place.
This subforum is "Unofficial modding projects" we here are nothing but amauters (and BTW, in this tread we deal with compeletely different file)
you need to post you bug report here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=127

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lol mate
i'm sorry, i'm just desperate to fix this
real sorry
:oops:

Not sure what units are affected, but it is impossible to build the Pahlava "Settled Aristocracy" structure, and probably because of that, you can't build the #6 main city structure, which makes it hard to make better troups in Pahlava. Any way you could fix that?

@spitherd: I'm not very familiar with Pahlavan building tree, what is "#6 main city structure"?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

@spitherd: I'm not very familiar with Pahlavan building tree, what is "#6 main city structure"?

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Sorry- the building that you can't build is Hupadikhshayih-i Pahlavanig. That building is necessary to build most of the later improvements for Pahlava (better sewars, better markets, better troops, etc). It's #6 on the building tree guide. The reason you can't build it is that one of it's prerequisites is "Settled Aristocracy"- which I can't seem to build, even though I've built everything possible and switched government types multiple times. No idea why you can't build that strucutre, and I was hoping someone with expertise could take a look at the code and see what is going on.