my compilation of useful to know stuff

contents (use control + f to find)

morale
mines
trade resource value
valour bonus
bridges
stat ratings
rebellious provences
What do my cavalry units dismount into?
effects of desert on armoured units
generals hitpoints
location of new king
loyalty buildings
combat modifiers
reappearing factions

morale
Impetuous: 10 and above
Steady: 2 to 14
Uncertain: -5 to 5
Wavering: -14 to -6
Routing:

*** Positive Morale Factors ****

+2 Morale for every point of valor
+2 Morale for the Generals unit (automatic)
+1 Morale for being within 50 meters of your General (for every command point the General has)
+1 Morale if further than 50 meters from your General (for every TWO command points the General has)
+4 Morale for outnumbering enemy troops
+4 Morale for having a units flank protected
+2 Morale for being uphill of enemy units
+4 Morale bonus to units charging on their own because they are impetuous
+6 Morale if a unit is "winning"
+4 Morale to nearby units if there is a 3:1 advantage in local superiority
+8 Morale when two or more enemy units are routed
+8 Morale to any units fighting where there is no escape (ie Castle defense, or surrounded by enemy provinces)
+4 Morale for routing units with no enemy nearby
+8 Morale for routing units that rally


*** Negative Morale Modifiers ***

-2 Morale to units in "Loose" or a disordered formation
-3 Morale for units being "Very Tired"
-6 Morale for units being "Exhausted"
-8 Morale for units being "Completely Exhausted"
-2 Morale for being shot at by Missles
-4 Morale if those Missiles "Cause Fear" (ie Cannon)
-4 Morale is outnumbered by the enemy at 2:1
-12 Morale maximum if outnumbered by the enemy 10:1 (could be less)
-2 Morale if a flank is threatened
-6 Morale if both flanks or a flank and the rear is threatened
-4 Morale if charged on a flank
-6 Morale additional if infantry is charged on a flank by Cavalry
-8 Morale if charged on a flank by a hidden unit
-2 Morale if unit takes 10% casualties
-8 Morale if unit takes 50% casualties
-12 Morale if unit takes 80% casualties
-8 Morale maximum if unit is "Losing" (could be less)
-6 Morale additional to infantry "Losing" against Cavalry
-12 Morale maximum if two or more friendly units rout (could be less, depending on type)
-8 Morale immediately following General's death (temporary)
-2 Morale permanently following General's death (does not impact Elite or Disciplined units)
-6 Morale to skirmishers running out of ammunition
-6 Morale to skirmishers being pursued long distances (not sure just how long)

SP Campaign Game settings:

+4 Morale to your troops on Easy
+4 Morale to AI faction troops on Expert
+12 Morale to ALL units if Morale is turned off in realism settings

mines
mines take 12 years to pay off complexes take 22

trade resource value (trading post 100% merchant 120% guold 140% master 160%
glassware 40, wood 20, furs 40, wine 40, wool 30, silk 40, cotton 30, linen 30, wax 20, honey 40, salt 20, hides 30, butter 20, pottery 30, fish 20, spices 50, gems 50, sugar 40, dyes 50, ivory 40, olive oil 30, grain 30. #This tells you why Antioch, with its gems, spices and silks, is so profitable


valour bonus
Highland Clansman-------Scotland
Genoese Sailors-------Genoa
Trebizond Archers-------Trebizond
Bulgarian Brigands-------Bulgaria
Janissary Bows-------Georgia
Nizari-------Syria
Turcoman Foot-------Anatolia
Longbows-------Wales
Turcopoles-------Antioch
Berber Camels-------Morocco, Algeria
Mamluk HA-------Sinai
Turcoman Horse-------Tripoli
Hospitaller Foot-------Rhodes
Urban Militia-------Tuscany
JHI-------Bulgaria
Billmen-------Mercia
All viking units-------Norway
Ottoman Inf-------Rum
Chiv Foot-------Ile-de-France
Gothic Knights-------Saxony
AUM-------Granada
Gallowglass-------Ireland
Peasants-------Provence
Pikemen-------Tyrolia
Swiss Pikemen-------Switzerland
Saharan Cav-------Cyrenacia
Mamluk Cav-------Egypt
AHC-------Armenia
Ghulam Cav-------Lesser Armenia
Pronoiai Allagion-------Nicaea
Kataphraktoi-------Constantinople
Ottoman Sipahi-------Edessa, Rum
Knights Hospitaller-------Malta
Knights Santiago-------Leon
Knights Templar-------Jerusalem
Teutonic Knights-------Prussia
Chiv Knights-------Toulouse
Gothic Foot-------Brandenburg
Sipahi of the Porte-------Tripoli
Woodsmen-------Lithuania
Dhow-------Tunisia
Longboat-------Denmark
Galley-------Venice
Caravel-------Portugal
Cog-------Wessex
Gun Gallery-------Aragon
Assassin-------Syria (+2)
Inquisitor-------Castile
Grand Inquisitor-------Castile

bridges

1. The first list will be borders in which you'll find a bridge battle going BOTH WAYS:
Cordoba/Valencia
Aragon/Valencia
Mercia/Wessex
Ile de France/Burgundy
Toulouse/Provence
Saxony/Brandenburg
Franconia/Bavaria
Bohemia/Bavaria
Silesia/Poland
Carpathia/Poland
Bulgaria/Wallachia
Bulgaria/Moldavia
Kiev/Crimea
Kiev/Khazar
Khazar/Chernigov
Khazar/Ryazan
Muscovy/Volga-Bulgaria

2. This list contains the ONE WAY bridge battles.
ATTACKING FROM--INTO
Toulouse----------Burgundy
Anjou-------------Burgundy
Flanders----------Normandy
Flanders----------Ile de France
Friesland----------Lorraine
Lorraine-----------Franconia
Denmark----------Saxony
Pomerania---------Brandenburg
Austria------------Hungary
Serbia-------------Hungary
Lithuania----------Kiev
Chernigov---------Kiev


stat ratings

---
above 5
Charge : Irresistible
ATK/DEF : Excellent
Armour : Very Heavily Armoured
Morale : Excellent
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4 to 5
Charge : Very Strong
ATK/DEF : Very Good
Armour : Heavily Armoured
Morale : Good (same as below)
---
3 to 4
Charge : Strong
ATK/DEF : Good
Armour : Armoured
Morale : Good
---
1 to 2
(won't be written in unit descriptions)
---
-1 to 1
(Charge won't be written)
ATK/DEF : weak
Armour : vulnerable to missiles
Morale : poor
---
below -1
(charge won't be written)
ATK/DEF : very weak
Armour/morale : same as above

rebellious provences
Rebellious degree 0-4

4/4 Portugal, Livonia

3/4 Lithuania

2/4 Prussia, Scotland

1/4 Ireland, Khazar, Pomerania, Serbia

0/4 All other


What do my cavalry units dismount into?
Alan Mercenary Cavalry -> Archers
Steppe Cavalry -> Spearmen
Turcopole -> Archers
Berber Camel -> Desert Archers (yes)
Mamluk Horse Archers -> Desert Archers
Turcoman Horse -> Turcoman Foot
Horse Archers -> Archers
Golden Horde Horse Archers -> Golden Horde Warriors (yes)
Byzantine Cavalry -> Trebizond Archers
Golden Horde Heavy Cavalry -> Golden Horde Warriors (yes)
Gothic Knights -> Gothic Foot Knights (yes)
Saharan Cavalry -> Murabitin Infantry
Mamluk Cavalry -> Saracen Infantry
Armenian Heavy Cavalry -> Feudal Sergeants
Bedouin Camel Warriors -> Muslim Peasants (yes)
Hobilars -> Feudal Sergeants
Ghulam Cavalry -> Saracen Infantry
Khwarazmian Cavalry Saracen Infantry
Pronoiai Allagion -> Byzantine Infantry
Kataphraktoi -> Byzantine Infantry
Ottoman Sipahi -> Turcoman Foot
Feudal Knights -> Feudal Foot Knights
Teutonic Sergeants -> Order Foot Soldiers
Knights Hospitaller -> Hospitaller Foot Knights (yes)
Knights Santiago -> Chivalric Foot Knights (yes)
Knights Templar -> Chivalric Foot Knights (yes)
Teutonic Knights -> Chivalric Foot Knights (yes)
Lancers -> Chivalric Foot Knights
Chivalric Knights -> Chivalric Foot Knights (yes)
Gendarmes -> Chivalric Man-at-Arms (yes)
Early Royal Knights ->Feudal Foot Knights
High Royal Knights -> Chivalric Foot Knights (yes)
Late Royal Knights -> Chivalric Foot Knights (yes)
Early Royal Ghulam Knights -> Saracen Infantry
High Royal Ghulam Knights -> Saracen Infantry
Late Royal Ghulam Knights -> Saracen Infantry
Spanish Jinetes -> Feudal Sergeants
Sipahi of the Porte -> Janissary Infantry
Boyar -> Feudal Man-at-Arms
Lithuanian Cavalry -> Archers (yes)
Polish Retainer -> Feudal Sergeants
Mounted Crossbows -> Crossbows
Mounted Sergeants -> Feudal Sergeants
Avar Nobles -> Armoured Spearmen
Byzantine Lancers -> Armoured Spearmen
Druzhina Cavalry -> Feudal Foot Knights (yes)
Faris -> Dismounted Faris
Khazar Royal Cavalry -> Armoured Spearmen
Medium Cavalry -> Round Shield Spearmen
Pictish Cavalry -> Celtic Warriors
Dark Age Royal Knights -> Early Royal Foot Knights
Dark Age Knights -> Early Foot Knights
Steppe Heavy Cavalry -> Armoured Spearmen
Szekely -> Slav Warriors
Viking Raider Cavalry -> Viking Carls (yes)

The units that can dismount in any battle have been marked with a "(yes)." If there is no "(yes)," then the units may only dismount in castle assaults.

effects of desert on armoured units

Cavalry Armour Level 2&3 (depletion 50%/recovery 50%)
Cavalry Armour Level 4&5 (depletion 75%/recovery 25%)
Cavalry Armour Level 6&+ (depletion 100%/recovery 0%)

Infantry Armour Level 1&2 (depletion 50%/recovery 50%)
Infantry Armour Level 3&4 (depletion 75%/recovery 25%)
Infantry Armour Level 5&+ (depletion 100%/recovery 0%)

generals hitpoints

Base hitpoints: 4
King: +6
Prince: +4
Command: Adds +1 per rank
V&V: 1/3 of Health bonus, rounding down. +5 to Health means +1 hitpoint.

So a king of Rank 6 with the Virtue Mighty Warrior (+ 10 Health) would look like this:
4
+6
+6
+(1/3 * 10 = 3)
= 19 hitpoints. Not bad at all.


location of new king
It's the province with the highest number of buildings, whatever they are. If there's a tie it's the last such region in the faction's list. (amount of buildings not upgrades)

loyalty buildings

Town Watch (+10)
Town Guard (+10)
Town Militia (+10)
County Militia (+10)
Brothel (+10/level)
College of Surgeons (+40)
Church (+20)
Mosque (+20)
Monestery (+10)
Reliquary (+30)
Cathedral (+40)
Grand Mosque (+40)
Watch Towers (+10)
Border Fort (+10)



Combat modifiers:

Formations

+3 atk, -3 def for wedge formation
-2 atk, +2 def for hold formation

Spear/pikes

+1 def per rank (up to 2 for spear, 4 for pike)
+1 atk per 2 ranks when not charging
+1 atk per rank when charging
No rank bonuses in trees

Terrain

+1 atk for camels in sandy desert
-1 atk for camels in lush or temperate
-2 atk, -2 def for cavalry or camel in trees
Bonus to atk for being uphill (amount depends on height difference)
Penalty to atk for being downhill (amount depends on height difference)

Fear of camels

+4 def for camels against horses
+2 atk for camels against horses

Positional

+5 atk for flank attack
+7 atk for rear attack
+2 atk for charging into flank/rear
+6 atk on the following combat cycle after 'pushing back' the enemy
+5 atk when target squeezed too tight (example: bridge or castle gate)

Exhaustion

-2 atk when quite tired
-3 atk, -1 def very tired
-4 atk, -2 def exhausted
-6 atk, -3 def totally exhausted

Routing

+4 atk against routing enemies
-8 def if routing

Armor Piercing

atk bonus = (target armor - 1)/2
(remove the contribution of the shield and horse to target's armor before making this calculation)

Shield

If striker hits target from the rear:
+2 atk if target is footman with large shield
+1 atk if target is mounted or footman with small shield

reappearing factions
- the pope can always re-emerge, regardless of loyalty
- the game tracks underage heirs of eliminated factions(after 60 years the factions completely dead if they havent reappeared)
- re-emergences only happen along with a regular rebellion (i.e. less than 100% loyalty) and only in a province they held for at least one turn. Once the game determines a re-emergence has occured, ANY province that faction once held that is below 120% can also see loyalist troops appear.
- rebellions cause neighboring provinces to suffer lower loyalty.
- large empires suffer a provincial happiness penalty.



im adding more as i find it so feel free to add to it :yes:

freakin great guide~:thumb:

so even pesants can be viable combat troops if they flank? I didn't know that. They can also help bolster Morale just by being there to provide a numeric advantage.

keep it up, I'm really intrigued to see what else you've discovered!

Interesting lists Pred.

I've wondered if the org should have a "numerology" section for these kinds of stats and info like the .com does.

A minor correction to loyalty bonuses for buildings- according to the Prod file for MTW VI:

Watch Towers +20
Town Watch +10 - the rest of the militia buildings don't add any bonus
Brothels - in case it wasn't clear, they add +10 for each of the first 3 levels.

thanks for the corrections sharp ill edit them in later

yes heidrik with enough morale and a rear charge peasents can be formidible hence the reason i include a few of those cheap upkeep units in my army (peasents first few turns militia after)

Another question:

Do certain types of units get bonuses against other specific types? I hear somewhere that Swordsmen units get +1 Atk/Def against Spears, and that Cavalry get a bonus on open ground (I assume this means not uphill or in trees?)

Swords do get a +1 attack against spearmen. As I recall, this was one of the changes made in the MTW v1.1 patch.

Cavalry get penalized -4 points in trees, so they are better on open ground. I'm not aware of any bonus for cavalry on open ground.

Camels get a bonus in the desert and another against horses, but you probably knew that one already.

Very interesting, just to add I think going from Denmark to Saxony/Hanover produces a bridge battle. I luv bridge battles:2thumbsup:

ok will check that some time then edit it in if true

im not aware of any sword bonuses you got any links to where its proven?

anyway there is a combat modifiers section there

Combat modifiers:

Formations

+3 atk, -3 def for wedge formation
-2 atk, +2 def for hold formation

Spear/pikes

+1 def per rank (up to 2 for spear, 4 for pike)
+1 atk per 2 ranks when not charging
+1 atk per rank when charging
No rank bonuses in trees

Terrain

+1 atk for camels in sandy desert
-1 atk for camels in lush or temperate
-2 atk, -2 def for cavalry or camel in trees
Bonus to atk for being uphill (amount depends on height difference)
Penalty to atk for being downhill (amount depends on height difference)

read it all and make sure you dont skip any before commenting please :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by predaturd

im not aware of any sword bonuses you got any links to where its proven?

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Spear changes in v1.1 patch

Longjohn2 Nov-09-2002

In general I made it much easier to push spearmen back in combat. They were a bit too much of a brick wall before. They now depend on having rear rank support to have good stopping power. Keeping them well formed, and avoiding turning just before going into combat is important now, especially for pikes.

Secondly I gave a 1 factor bonus to non spear infantry fighting spears/pikes with supporting ranks, unless they were charging. ie you get the bonus after the initial impact.

Thirdly I made some changes to make pikes better against spears, and to make them better at pushing back when they have supporting ranks.

I make some changes to how men form up in combat, which ought to help spears/pike keep closed up and supporting each other.

I made spear units more expensive.
I made all the expensive units cheaper.

Puzz, don't spearmen & pikemen suffer a mild penalty when fighting in woods as well (albeit not as severe a penalty as cavalry)? I seem to recall this penalty is applied due to trees breaking up their ranks somewhat.

In fact (come to think of it), I've long been under the impression that sword/polearm infantry are pretty much the only units that *don't* suffer some sort of penalty when fighting in & amongst trees. I seem to recall that just about all other unit types -- cavalry, missiles, gunpowder, etc. -- suffer from at least partially reduced effectiveness in woods for one reason or another. :book:

Well you're right.
Axes/swords/polearms don't suffer penalties in the woods because these units can fight individually.
Cav suffers a severe penalty because supposedly horses can't move as good in the woods.
Spears and pikes lose some of there rank bonuses because trees disrupt the formation. If you ask me, pike should've got the same penalty as cav because I imagine pikes not being very handy to maneuver in the woods.
Lastly missiles and firearms suffer a penalty when firing from or into woods. It is assumed that at least some of the missiles or balls are absorbed by the trees. These units don't suffer a penalty in the woods when it comes to melee fighting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martok

Puzz, don't spearmen & pikemen suffer a mild penalty when fighting in woods as well (albeit not as severe a penalty as cavalry)? I seem to recall this penalty is applied due to trees breaking up their ranks somewhat.

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The rationale is that the trees break up the formation which they actually do, but I think the rank bonus is completely eliminated in trees regardless of that. There is no additional combat penalty as far as I know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martok

In fact (come to think of it), I've long been under the impression that sword/polearm infantry are pretty much the only units that *don't* suffer some sort of penalty when fighting in & amongst trees. I seem to recall that just about all other unit types -- cavalry, missiles, gunpowder, etc. -- suffer from at least partially reduced effectiveness in woods for one reason or another. :book:

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Trees hamper maneuver and disrupt units when moving (-2 morale), so in that sense all units are adversely affected by trees. Cavalry and camels, in addition to the combat penalty, are hampered the most when trying to maneuver in trees because they are physically larger objects and therefore collide with the trees more often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

Secondly I gave a 1 factor bonus to non spear infantry fighting spears/pikes with supporting ranks, unless they were charging. ie you get the bonus after the initial impact.

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So does this mean swords and axes get the bonus? I knew swords got it, but was never sure about axes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drone

So does this mean swords and axes get the bonus? I knew swords got it, but was never sure about axes.

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I recall another post that specified only swords get the bonus, but I haven't been able to find the post. The MTW v1.1 patch readme might have this info, but I haven't been able to find a copy of that either.

No, nothing in the 1.1 patch readme about swords getting a bonus.

Any chance we can get this thread stickied?

Hey Mods, can we sticky this thread please - it's a wealth of info!!

Regarding pikes/spears in woods; I'm pretty sure the units retain their bonuses as long as their formation is uninterrupted. And if a unit has it's formation partially interrupted the part of the unit that still is in formation the individual soldiers still keep their rank bonus. You kan see this by watching the fighting animation for the individual soldiers; soldiers in both the second and third rank should have the fighting animation to aid the first rank. So I don't think spears/pikes get a flat penalty in woods, but the trees disrupt the formation and make the bonus apply unevenly within the unit.

I've had spears perform excellently in woods on the defense both against cavalry and infantry. Spears will absolutely slaughter cavalry in woods anyways.

I believe that's correct, as that pretty much reflects what Puzz3D has said about spears/pikes in woods.

The other thing to keep in mind is that *all* units receive a -2 morale penalty when moving in woods, so you need to somewhat careful with your lower-morale troops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martok

The other thing to keep in mind is that *all* units receive a -2 morale penalty when moving in woods,

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Do they get a -2 morale for woods in addition to the -2 for disrupted formation?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggus Diccus

Do they get a -2 morale for woods in addition to the -2 for disrupted formation?

---

Read Puzz's earlier post in this thread (post #13). ~:)

Few useful tips regarding v&v. None of this is referred to in the manual and it's just the result of what I gathered after a few years playing the game. Hope that I have not forgotten anything but whatever:

- if you want your general not to get any random v&v just don't put them as commander of a stack of two units or more but leave their unit on its own. You will get the v&v triggered your action (builder, steward, scant mercy, good runnern, etc) but no any good or bad random vice;
- likewise if one of your general got a bad vice (pride, strange, chinless wonder), do not let his unit in command of a stack or the vice will get worse with time (lazy, cracked-brained, odd number of toes, etc.). Note that by doing so you also lose the possibility that your good v&v improves (educated to well educated, famously brave to brave beyond belief, etc) or to get a new positive v&v compensating the effect of the bad one.
- princes can get the V&V strange, chinless wonder and pride when they first appear but I have never seen them getting it afterwards even if after they had become a royal or standard general.
- your King's V&V shall not improve or get worse after he has been crowned (for instance he will remain strange until his death without turning into an unhinged loon) nor will your king get new random v&v.
- if I am not mistaken the description of "secret pride" does not exactly match its effects (IIRC the descriptionn says command -1 while the effect is -2)
- if one of you generals looses stars as a result of a v&v, he will still need to win the number of battle necessary to increase his command rating before the v&v kicked in. For instance, a two star commander who loses those as a result of "odd number of toes" still needs to win the amount of battles necessary to go from two to three stars and not just one. On the other hand, I do think - but cannot 100% postive - that if you general gets additional stars as result of a v&v (well educated) or thanks to a title, the amount of battles necessary to gain an additional star depends on the modified number of stars so that it might sometimes be worth postponing the improvement of the v&v (from educated to well educated) or the attribution of the title until you have won the necessary battles to get to the next level. I wonder if a general with chinless wonder can without title get to 9 stars or if the cap for him will at all time be eight (the max less one for the v&v). Normally should be eight but I never had the opportunity to test that.
- successful crusades increase your ruler's piety (not sure if it applies to all crusades or only to crusades to the holy land);
- apart from one Egyptian general, nobody gets the v&v "fine leader". Never seen anyone with the "legendary leader" v&v.
- apart from William II and an rebel general appearing in Greece or Serbia from time to time, no one gets the V&v autocrat and/or tyrant. I have read somewhere that someone would try to see if framing loads of general for trahison and/or re-allocating titles every turn would do the trick but can't fin the thread anymore :dizzy2:

Hope it helps. If anyone disagree:thumbsdown: , please feel free to voice you opinion :furious3:.
Bye for now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jxrc

- if I am not mistaken the description of "secret pride" does not exactly match its effects (IIRC the descriptionn says command -1 while the effect is -2)

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I believe there is a bug that swaps the effects of 'pride' and 'secret pride'. I am not 100% sure though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jxrc

- if you want your general not to get any random v&v just don't put them as commander of a stack of two units or more but leave their unit on its own. You will get the v&v triggered your action (builder, steward, scant mercy, good runnern, etc) but no any good or bad random vice

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Not sure about this one. I am pretty sure I have seen generals/heirs on top of stacks getting random v&v's (both bad and good). But my experience is that there is a maximum number of traits a general can have before he stops getting new random ones (still getting traits from actions). So if you have a heir that is really good, and you don't want to risk him getting any random bad vices you can let him execute some prisoners, have him lead a stack of governors and give him builder/farmer etc. Heirs usually have 1-3 traits to start with and with 4-5 traits they are safe from getting new random ones.

Still a good collection of tips regarding v&v's. I have a rough guide on the subject somewhere that I could reformat and post if there is enough interest.

Is this applicable to VI only? Because I am playing MTW 1.1 and assassins trained in Syria come out as 0 valour as the English and Inquisitors come out at 0 valour as the Spanish at Castille.

On a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know why support costs for the same ship at the same admiral command level are often different? I can't seem to make out what is causing this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

On a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know why support costs for the same ship at the same admiral command level are often different? I can't seem to make out what is causing this.

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It has something to do with the distance between your ship and your harbour. The greater the distance the higher the maintenance cost. When I say "distance between your ship and your harbour", I think that the relevant distance is not the one with the closest harbour but with the one where the ship was built. Not 100% sure unfortunately.

Ah, that's quite annoying. So I shouldn't be building all my ships for the same harbor eh.

Any idea on the other problem?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Ah, that's quite annoying. So I shouldn't be building all my ships for the same harbor eh.?

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I would not say that you have to even if I am correct regarding what is the relevant port to calculate the distance. In any event, provided that you get some trade going you will rake enough florins every year.

What I usually based on my perhaps uncorrect assumption is build enough ships to have one in every sea as soon as possible and not to apy much attention to the maintenance cost. Once the sea is fully covered (or about to be so), I try to use one or serveral of my most faraway province (preferably recently acquired) to build additional ships and double the number of ships in all seas. For instance if I am playing as England, as you apparently are, I build all ships in Northemburia (one of the province that does not give any valor bonus) and cover the entire see. Once that it is done, I try to get myself a few provinces in the middle east (through crusades) or a few islands (Rhodes, Crete and Cyprus usually if the Byz are not too powerful) and dedicate those to shipbuilding. Each time I have produced three additional ships there, I leave to ship sitting and move the remaining two westward so that all the ships initially built in Northemburia get progressivly closer to their native harbour. When doing that, I try to mix my fleets so as to avoid as to have two 0-star commanders in the same stack while other staks would be entirely composed of fleets commanded by admirals with 1 star or more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Any idea on the other problem?

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Been playing with VI for quite a while I am sure that I get the valour +2 bonus in Syria even when playing as a catholic faction so that you must be correct. If you cannot get VI, I am pretty sure that someone with any modding capacity (not me :whip: :whip: ) can help you out since I understand that's valour bonus are one of the easiest things to modify ... Since I am still playing with provinces granting a silly bonus for foot knights, I am not really able to help ... For inquisitor the +1 valour bonus does not really matter IMHO since all you have to do is find a 0-piety general to fry ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jxrc

It has something to do with the distance between your ship and your harbour. The greater the distance the higher the maintenance cost. When I say "distance between your ship and your harbour", I think that the relevant distance is not the one with the closest harbour but with the one where the ship was built. Not 100% sure unfortunately.

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I'm pretty sure it is the closest harbour, not the harbour where your ship was built. And there is a max maintenance distance as well, moving fleets longer away than this will not increase the maintenance.

biggus you care to post the vnv tips then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggus Diccus

I'm pretty sure it is the closest harbour, not the harbour where your ship was built. And there is a max maintenance distance as well, moving fleets longer away than this will not increase the maintenance.

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Correct. It's your ships' distance to the closest friendly port (owned by you) that determines its support costs. (It's one reason why Sicily is such an attractive target for Mediterranean naval powers. :yes: ) I want to say the support costs cap out at 80 florins per ship/year, but you probably shouldn't quote me on that as it's been a while since I checked.

I'm not sure what's going on with your other issue, Faction Heir. I don't think I've played vanilla MTW since VI came out back in 2003, so I can't really remember whether or not the agent bonuses in 1.1 work in those two provinces.

Now that said, the Inquisitors don't really need a valour bonus -- believe me, I know. ~D However, it's indeed unfortunate that you're unable to get Syria to turn out those lovely v1 assassins, as they can be very useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martok

However, it's indeed unfortunate that you're unable to get Syria to turn out those lovely v1 assassins, as they can be very useful.

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Isn't the bonus +2 ? I think that last time I had a fortress built in Syria asap just for the fun of spamming valour-5 assassins. Maybe I ma getting too old ... :dizzy2: :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Jxrc

Isn't the bonus +2 ? I think that last time I had a fortress built in Syria asap just for the fun of spamming valour-5 assassins. Maybe I ma getting too old ... :dizzy2: :dizzy2:

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Hmm. I didn't think so, but now you've got me wondering as well. And unfortunately, I can't really check myself since I'm playing the Pocket Mod, which redoes a lot of the valour bonuses.

I still think it's only a base +1 bonus in Syria, but I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Martok

I can't really check myself

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I can't either ... still at the office .... working hard as you can see ....:yes: :laugh4:

Yeah, its difficult for inquisitors though. Grand inquisitors are quite easy to level up.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Yeah, its difficult for inquisitors though. Grand inquisitors are quite easy to level up.

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If you've not already done so, I recommend using Inquisitors on your own generals as well, particularly the lower-level ones. It's a good way to valour them up -- and of course unlike assassins, they don't die if they fail in their mission. Better yet, a general that survives a heresy trial won't suffer a drop in loyalty (as opposed to a general who's survived a treason trial and/or assassination attempt).

Ah, interesting to know. I guess I won't have to convert a population to 100/100 and then start trials then :grin:

Side question: How do you raise a spy's valour? Always seems to stay on 0 even if they succeed in missions.

best way is to try your own generals for treason. pick a junk unit with low loyalty and have your spies continuously try him for treason. either that, or "prune" various low loyalty troops until their commander has a decent set of stats

As your spy sucessfuly frames people he will get more stars.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Ah, interesting to know. I guess I won't have to convert a population to 100/100 and then start trials then :grin:

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Correct. Having high zeal in the province where you're trying a general for heresy certainly improves an inquisitor's chances of success, but it's not necessary.

You'll probably never get a province's zeal to 100%, by the way. I believe it tops out around 80% or so, as the citizenry's religious enthusiasm tends to peak by then -- they can stomach only so many people burning at the stake. ~D

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Side question: How do you raise a spy's valour? Always seems to stay on 0 even if they succeed in missions.

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In addition to Heidrek's suggestion -- which I do recommend as well -- spies can valour up in a couple other ways:

1.) Catching enemy assassins. You just need to have a spy in a province, and he'll automatically have a chance to capture any assassins lurking about. The more assassins he captures, the more valour stars he will gain.

Note: If an assassin is caught in a province with a Border Fort, the spy will *not* get credit for the capture. (In other words, you'll need to either dismantle the border fort, or just not build it in the first place.)

2.) Starting revolts in enemy provinces. You place a spy in another faction's province (preferably one where loyalty isn't that great to begin with). Given enough time, the province's loyalty will eventually drop below 100%, with an increasing chance of rebellion every passing year. If a rebel army does appear in that province, then your spy gets a star!

Note: You'll probably want to use several spies in the enemy province to pull this one off, as otherwise the process usually takes too long. If you do use a "mob" of spies to spark a rebellion, only the spy with the highest valour gets a star -- the rest of the spies helping him do *not* receive a star.

Hmmm in my current campaign, I had taken a few hints from the forum regarding having a spy in each province, but I didn't know that had to be a province without a border fort..... I think I'll keep the forts though as they massively boost happiness, which is hard to come by on default unit size (as opposed to small unit size which I ran my first campaign under).

I used to think spying for vnvs would raise valour, so this is not the case? Opening gates neither....

Say if I have a mob of valour 0 spies, which gets the point if the province goes rebel?

Oh, and I had several zeal 100 provinces....well, actually they AI did, because that's where I parked my inquisitors last game.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Hmmm in my current campaign, I had taken a few hints from the forum regarding having a spy in each province, but I didn't know that had to be a province without a border fort..... I think I'll keep the forts though as they massively boost happiness, which is hard to come by on default unit size (as opposed to small unit size which I ran my first campaign under).

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Fair enough. Of course, having spies in your provinces boosts their loyalty as well, although I don't know how their loyalty-increasing abilities compare to that of the border fort.

By the way, one thing I forgot to point out was that placing spies in your port provinces is the most effective way to catch enemy assassins. So it may still be worth your while to dismantle the border forts in at least some of your coastal provinces, particularly if you notice it's a territory that has a lot of emissaries & princesses passing through it. (Assassins love to go after those!)

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

I used to think spying for vnvs would raise valour, so this is not the case? Opening gates neither....

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Gah! I forgot about opening gates. :oops: Yes, that should boost a spy's valour as well.

I can't remember now if they gain valour for exposing vices or not.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Say if I have a mob of valour 0 spies, which gets the point if the province goes rebel?

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In that case, it would be determined randomly.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Oh, and I had several zeal 100 provinces....well, actually they AI did, because that's where I parked my inquisitors last game.

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100% zeal?? Holy crap. ~:eek: Well I must've been doing something wrong in my campaigns all these years then, because I don't think I've ever seen that before. :sweatdrop:

100% zeal actually seems rather easy to get too, if you can spare two inquisitors for a province and leave them there. Most of the time they don't start an inquisition either.

Opening gates successfully twice with a valour 0 spy still resulted in a valour 0 spy...

Do spies really boost province loyalty? I had a spy in distant Prussia and the loyalty would still stay the same as if he had never been there over a 20 turn period with the same king.

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Originally Posted by Martok

100% zeal?? Holy crap. ~:eek: Well I must've been doing something wrong in my campaigns all these years then, because I don't think I've ever seen that before. :sweatdrop:

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Busy inquisitors doesn't burn the population.

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Originally Posted by Jxrc

- apart from one Egyptian general, nobody gets the v&v "fine leader". Never seen anyone with the "legendary leader" v&v.

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False. I've seen my king getting natural leader upgraded once. I was sending him out to gain v&v or die (as his son was better), so he was in the frontline all the time.

Should I guess you'll either need to kill the first enemy in battle with the general unit or take the first loss in multiple battles (in a row?) to gain this.

im 99.99% sure that revealing vices increases a spys valour
i tend to do a lot of pure diplomacy games and i always seem to have 4-5 valour spys when they go on a revealing spree (-5 loyalty in one year ftw)

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Originally Posted by Martok

Correct. It's your ships' distance to the closest friendly port (owned by you) that determines its support costs. (It's one reason why Sicily is such an attractive target for Mediterranean naval powers. :yes: ) I want to say the support costs cap out at 80 florins per ship/year, but you probably shouldn't quote me on that as it's been a while since I checked.

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I've noticed that, while some ships cap out at 80 florins, others cap out at 60. Take Sicily for example (hehe...snap :laugh4:), with Galleys and Dromons. Galleys are 20 florins per turn base, and they cap out at 80 - while Dromons, at 15 florins per turn base, cap out at 60. I believe, based on this, the maximum cap is four times the base cost. Haven't checked out Longboats or other ships with different base costs, though. If anyone can correct me, or add anything else, feel free to do so *readies Inquisition just in case anyone does that :eyebrows:*.

It should be pointed out that not all ships have the same upkeep costs, and as such, their 'caps' for support vary. For example, gungalley's have a support cost of 50, which means their 'cap' for support would be much, much higher than longboats, which have a support cost of a measly 7 in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

False. I've seen my king getting natural leader upgraded once. I was sending him out to gain v&v or die (as his son was better), so he was in the frontline all the time.

Should I guess you'll either need to kill the first enemy in battle with the general unit or take the first loss in multiple battles (in a row?) to gain this.

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Have you been able to trigger it again ? Honestly I've been playing MTW since it came out and have never seen that happen (and I never auto-calc). But fair enough, will put my next king in a province and trigger peasants revolts to check that out (start with the Danes Early, invade sweden make it revolt three times in a row and see what happens). Will not be able to play for at least two weeks so if someone want to have a go before just let me know.