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gandalf the double agent
argument: gandalf was actually a double agent and a servant of sauron.
proof:
when gandalf finds out that bilbo has the ring, he realizes that he needs to get it to his master sauron, but gandalf knows he cannot take the ring personally, because it drives you nuts. he's seen it in golem and he is seeing it in bilbo. gandalf doesn't want to go nuts so he needs a patsy, a mule, a carrier piegeon. so he casts a spell on bilbo and uses all of his magical willpower to force bilbo to give the ring to frodo. and he sets up sam as an alternate. hobbits are great for being ring bearers because they're plumb and unambitious and ignorant of the world outside. if he gives the ring to someone powerful like boromir, saruman or aragon, then they could actually have the power to wield and and to defeat his master sauron which would not be good. now gandalf also needs to keep the ring away from the other servants of sauron because he wants to be the one to give the ring to sauron since sauron fosters divisions and mistrust among his servants. good old divide and rule see. so gandalf reckons he can guide the hobbits to mordor, when they get to the volcano, he can just smack em around take the ring and give it to sauron. when the ringwraiths find out about hobbiton, gandalf sends aragon to go keep the hobbits away from the ringwraiths. it works brilliantly. in facts it works too well because apparently one of the side effects of being ressurected is that you cannot swim and get an irrational fear of open water, and the ringwraiths drown in an aberrant seasonal river flooding. but now gandalf reckons sauron must be pissed because he has lost all track of the ring once it reaches rivendell. to make sure his master knows he's still on his side, what does gandalf do? he utters the black speech to draw the evil eye there while they are having their council meeting and gives some lame excuse as to why. he uses his magical powers of persuasion to keep the council from adopting a sensible plan, like sending an army to the volcano, or sending some giant eagles to drop the ring in the volcano, or sending a strike team of expert camoflagers, knowers of geography and goody two shoes like elves and rangers. no, gandalf pushes for them to send the same ignorant unambitous hobbits [with protection so the other agents of sauron don't take the ring] to morder where they can just get picked up by border patrol and gandalf wins. unfortunately for gandalf, when he goes to collude with saruman, he realized that the wizard has betrayed their evil overlord and is working for himself. so after gandalf escapes, he knows he now also needs to keep isengard in check. unfortunately for gandalf, he dies in moria, and when sauron ressurects him, he is also given a mission of getting the armies of the west in one place so sauron can just beat them in one battle instead of having to chase them all around. a secondary more personal objective for gandalf is that now he must avoid oceans and big rivers and water if he can, because as a resurrectee he can't swim and has an irrational fear of open water. though he hides it well. so gandy goes to the horse people's king, breaks the spell saruman has on him and secretly casts his own spell on him to get his own army [which is designed to fight on open plains] to hole up in some castle and draw saurman's forces there and keep them in check. gandolf can't rejoin the hobbits, since they are now across the big river and he's got river phobia. he then goes to gondor and has them all gather in the big fortress city as per instructions from sauron. surprisingly, the good guys win the battle for gondor and gandalf decides to destroy the armies of the west once and for all by leading them all on a suicide mission to attack mordor itself. at the climax of the battle, he plans on turning on his army and openly declaring for sauron and demoralizing the western forces. just as he is about to do this, he realizes the ewoks actually managed to get past border patrol and succeeded in the impossible quest he give them, and his master sauron is dead. gandalf adroitly and clandestinely swithces back to the other side and eventually gets a ship's fare to the western lands of the elves where hopefully he'll get to spread more mischief.
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Well, that made no sense at all. Funny though
Although I have often wondered why they didn't just send the eagles to mordor to drop the ring in the volcano, but I just figured that would make for an uninteresting story ~:wink:
:balloon2:
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch_guy
Well, that made no sense at all. Funny though
Although I have often wondered why they didn't just send the eagles to mordor to drop the ring in the volcano, but I just figured that would make for an uninteresting story ~:wink:
:balloon2:
Maybe the nazgul anti-air capabilities prevented a solely airborne operation, so they needed a combined arms approach, with a stealth infiltration mission to wipe out the air defenses to open for such a strike. As it turned out, the air cover defeated itself later by going too close to Minas Tirith's anti-air missile cover, and the downed air admiral became helpless and easily taken out by a little hobbit, causing a rout of the remaining air force, subsequently opening for the planned air extraction for the stealth mission, which by then happened to have completed its objectives.
:idea2:
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And here ends the story of LOTF, Lord of the Finks, where old guys turn out to be evil.
(Language - Beirut)
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Interesting premise nokhor.
A couple of counter-points:
1) Gandalf did cross the River Anduin from Minas Tirith to the Black Gate to fight in the final battle there.
2) The Ring Wraiths were crossing the river when they were unhorsed by the flood, regardless of whether it was natural or created by Elrond.
3) Helms Deep was a place of refuge for Rohan in the past, so going there wasn't out of the question. Besides, Sauruman defeated a large body of Rohirrim twice out in the open at the Fords of Isen - the first of which resulted in the death of Theoden's son. So, fighting Sauruman in the open wasn't going to work.
4) Regarding the ploy to get all his enemies on one place to defeat them in one battle, that doesn't work either. In the time around the whole Minas Tirith business, Sauron was fighting elsewhere too. He made three attacks on Lorien and was repelled all three times by Galadriel and the elves. There was also a major battle fought north in Dale. Sauron won this battle, killing King Brand and King Dain Ironfoot ~:mecry: and besieging the surviving men and dwaves in Erebor. Sauron's forces were also defeated in Mirkwood by Thranduil (Legolas' father). In fact the second assault on Lorien and the battle in Mirkwood took place on the same day as the battle of Pelennor. See Appendix B, "The Tale of Years" in The Return of the King.
5) Boromir would have become a slave to the Ring had Gandalf chosen him to carry it. Just look what it did to him being on close proximity to it. Hobbits were the only people that seemed to show some manner of resistence to its seductive powers.
6) Gandalf had the elven ring Narya which would have been quite a feather in his cap just returning that to Sauron.
7) This is more speculation than the others above, but regarding the eagles, the Ring was forged in the Cracks of Doom which was inside Mt. Doom. Simply dropping the ring in crater at the top probably wouldn't have sufficed. Also, the eagles flying would have drawn the attention of Sauron and apart from the Nazgul, we know little of Sauron's air defenses, physically or magically. He had no known dragons or balrogs (assuming they could fly).
That's enough for now. Thanks for the though exercise nokhor. :bow:
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^:laugh4:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoshi
Interesting premise nokhor.
A couple of counter-points:
1) Gandalf did cross the River Anduin from Minas Tirith to the Black Gate to fight in the final battle there.
2) The Ring Wraiths were crossing the river when they were unhorsed by the flood, regardless of whether it was natural or created by Elrond.
3) Helms Deep was a place of refuge for Rohan in the past, so going there wasn't out of the question. Besides, Sauruman defeated a large body of Rohirrim twice out in the open at the Fords of Isen - the first of which resulted in the death of Theoden's son. So, fighting Sauruman in the open wasn't going to work.
4) Regarding the ploy to get all his enemies on one place to defeat them in one battle, that doesn't work either. In the time around the whole Minas Tirith business, Sauron was fighting elsewhere too. He made three attacks on Lorien and was repelled all three times by Galadriel and the elves. There was also a major battle fought north in Dale. Sauron won this battle, killing King Brand and King Dain Ironfoot and besieging the surviving men and dwaves in Erebor. Sauron's forces were also defeated in Mirkwood by Thranduil (Legolas' father). In fact the second assault on Lorien and the battle in Mirkwood took place on the same day as the battle of Pelennor. See Appendix B, "The Tale of Years" in The Return of the King.
5) Boromir would have become a slave to the Ring had Gandalf chosen him to carry it. Just look what it did to him being on close proximity to it. Hobbits were the only people that seemed to show some manner of resistence to its seductive powers.
6) Gandalf had the elven ring Narya which would have been quite a feather in his cap just returning that to Sauron.
7) This is more speculation than the others above, but regarding the eagles, the Ring was forged in the Cracks of Doom which was inside Mt. Doom. Simply dropping the ring in crater at the top probably wouldn't have sufficed. Also, the eagles flying would have drawn the attention of Sauron and apart from the Nazgul, we know little of Sauron's air defenses, physically or magically. He had no known dragons or balrogs (assuming they could fly).
That's enough for now. Thanks for the though exercise nokhor.
Reading the books FTW! But on #6, that could simply have been Gandalfs ace in the hole. You know in case Sauron ever turned on him. The Macheavellian schemer that is nokhor's Gandalf would have an exit strategy.
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Nokhor's right!!!1!!
Boromir just KNEW that Gandalf's plan was ludicrous! Unfortunately, he had Boromir killed in a trap before Boromir worked out that it was Gandalf all this time. :shame:
https://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6012/mortoreq1.gif
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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
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:laugh4:
Nice thread.
:laugh4:
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Got a couple more of the infamous Boromir:
A Catapult??:inquisitive:
https://i109.photobucket.com/albums/.../ACatapult.gif
An Imaginary...Phone?:inquisitive:?
https://i109.photobucket.com/albums/...inaryPhone.gif
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Hehe, I like shocking theories like this on popular movies/books/series. Nice work, nokhor!
I must say, I still believe in Gandalf's innocence, tough. ~;)
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Quote:
Originally Posted by nokhor
argument: gandalf was actually a double agent and a servant of sauron.
proof:
... when the ringwraiths find out about hobbiton, gandalf sends aragon to go keep the hobbits away from the ringwraiths. it works brilliantly. in facts it works too well because apparently one of the side effects of being ressurected is that you cannot swim and get an irrational fear of open water, and the ringwraiths drown in an aberrant seasonal river flooding.
...
unfortunately for gandalf, he dies in moria, and when sauron ressurects him,
...
a secondary more personal objective for gandalf is that now he must avoid oceans and big rivers and water if he can, because as a resurrectee he can't swim and has an irrational fear of open water. though he hides it well.
...
gandalf adroitly and clandestinely swithces back to the other side and eventually gets a ship's fare to the western lands of the elves where hopefully he'll get to spread more mischief.
It has already been pointed out that rivers aren't always such a problem for resurected beings like the ringwraights and alledgedly Gandalf. But how would you explain an irrational fear of open water and then crossing an Ocean at the end of the movie like Gandalf did.
No it seems to me that Frodo himself was the mastermind behind the whole quest. He insisted to carry the ring to Mordor at the counsel of Elron. He isolated Boromir and then fled when the Saurons' minions attacked. He would've staged a coup to dispose of Sauron and take his place by using the power of the ring in the place of it's origin. If it wasn't for Golem, he would even have succeded.
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Hey! I have one of those too!
https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/...omir_funny.gif
(Sorry if the inappropriate material here is against the rules.)
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So while Louis, Decker and Fahad correctly displayed the beginning of the LOTR, and the underlying tensions, I present to you the ending:
Also, this may strain the forum rules a bit too much, hence the spoilers. Remove if necessary.
:balloon2:
(Consider it removed - Beirut)
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Where do you get those things? They're hilarious.
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch_guy
So while Louis, Decker and Fahad correctly displayed the beginning of the LOTR, and the underlying tensions, I present to you the ending:
Hope it's not too much of a strain on the eyes.
:balloon2:
ROFL!
:applause:
Now THAT'S how it should have ended.
(Quoted text edited - Beirut)
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Made me laugh for 10 min straight...
Awesome stuff!!:2thumbsup:
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Lol that was hilarious!!!
I got a few more for ya:
Not sure about this one:
https://i109.photobucket.com/albums/...ironAcid-1.gif
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Gentlemen,
Discretion, please.
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peasant Phill
If it wasn't for Golem, he would even have succeded.
Golem? I'm confused
http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/...ages/golem.gif
Wasn't the creature for lotr named 'Gollem'?
btw, Fahad: lol... 'wanna blow the horn of gondor'... lol.. :laugh4:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drisos
Well you didn't think a little mutant hobbit had stopped the ring-bearer, did you?
No wonder such a creature would be hard to spot in the mines of Moria, it would blend in perfectly. Spied on the Fellowship for a little while and then isolated Frodo...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch_guy
Although I have often wondered why they didn't just send the eagles to mordor to drop the ring in the volcano, but I just figured that would make for an uninteresting story ~:wink:
:balloon2:
You're forgeting about Sauron's Zapdos...
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I present to you a parody of the Boromir Catapult Idea Parody
And these two are my favorites...Star Wars and LOTR.
https://i225.photobucket.com/albums/...kesback1of.gif
This one has one bad word and two bad word euphenisms.
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Gandalf probably is a double agent. He became disillusioned with the Elves three thousand years earlier, in a freak accident...
https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/...aaaayq6pc2.gif
...involving being kicked into a pit full of Persians.
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:laugh4:
I'll say it again, this is a truly awesome thread. :2thumbsup:
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Now finally after reading your post... I must say this:
"Wait What?? :inquisitive:
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Gollum is the sneaky little dude. Golem is a Jewish mythological creature, and apparently a pokemon creature or something :laugh4:
You have actually read the books and not just seen the movies, right? :wink:
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Peasent Phill you asked
It has already been pointed out that rivers aren't always such a problem for resurected beings like the ringwraights and alledgedly Gandalf. But how would you explain an irrational fear of open water and then crossing an Ocean at the end of the movie like Gandalf did.
the anwser to that is very simple my friend. gandalf obviously underwent counseling sometime clandestinely, during one of numerous trips when he was running around all over the place getting peoples and states involved in the big war.
Gregoshi, pal-y, here is my rebuttal to your counterpoints
1) gandalf did cross the river anduin, or at least that's what he wants us to think, but did we actually see it? i think not.
2) see my answer to the last point
3) see my answer to the last point
4) see my answer to the last point
5) gandalf wants you to think that boro.., bora... bore... what's his face would have succumbed to the ring but i think borumeer would have created a new era of peace and tranquility where everyone knew their place and there would be no troublemakers, is that so bad?
6) see my answer to the last point
7) last point. all this talk about dragons and the ring narnia, and fords of isen and kind dale is making my head hurt. i will inform you that all that stuff is just some prequel literature stuff written by some british guy as part of the expanded universe, but if you don't see it in the movie by the new zealand guy, then it isn't canon and just didn't really happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoshi
Interesting premise nokhor.
A couple of counter-points:
1) Gandalf did cross the River Anduin from Minas Tirith to the Black Gate to fight in the final battle there.
2) The Ring Wraiths were crossing the river when they were unhorsed by the flood, regardless of whether it was natural or created by Elrond.
3) Helms Deep was a place of refuge for Rohan in the past, so going there wasn't out of the question. Besides, Sauruman defeated a large body of Rohirrim twice out in the open at the Fords of Isen - the first of which resulted in the death of Theoden's son. So, fighting Sauruman in the open wasn't going to work.
4) Regarding the ploy to get all his enemies on one place to defeat them in one battle, that doesn't work either. In the time around the whole Minas Tirith business, Sauron was fighting elsewhere too. He made three attacks on Lorien and was repelled all three times by Galadriel and the elves. There was also a major battle fought north in Dale. Sauron won this battle, killing King Brand and King Dain Ironfoot ~:mecry: and besieging the surviving men and dwaves in Erebor. Sauron's forces were also defeated in Mirkwood by Thranduil (Legolas' father). In fact the second assault on Lorien and the battle in Mirkwood took place on the same day as the battle of Pelennor. See Appendix B, "The Tale of Years" in The Return of the King.
5) Boromir would have become a slave to the Ring had Gandalf chosen him to carry it. Just look what it did to him being on close proximity to it. Hobbits were the only people that seemed to show some manner of resistence to its seductive powers.
6) Gandalf had the elven ring Narya which would have been quite a feather in his cap just returning that to Sauron.
7) This is more speculation than the others above, but regarding the eagles, the Ring was forged in the Cracks of Doom which was inside Mt. Doom. Simply dropping the ring in crater at the top probably wouldn't have sufficed. Also, the eagles flying would have drawn the attention of Sauron and apart from the Nazgul, we know little of Sauron's air defenses, physically or magically. He had no known dragons or balrogs (assuming they could fly).
That's enough for now. Thanks for the though exercise nokhor. :bow:
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Quote:
7) last point. all this talk about dragons and the ring narnia, and fords of isen and kind dale is making my head hurt. i will inform you that all that stuff is just some prequel literature stuff written by some british guy as part of the expanded universe, but if you don't see it in the movie by the new zealand guy, then it isn't canon and just didn't really happen.
:laugh4:
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Quote:
Originally Posted by nokhor
...but if you don't see it in the movie by the new zealand guy, then it isn't canon and just didn't really happen.
There was no canon in the movie...
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It's a shame Boromir died so quickly, had he lived, Osgiliath would have never fallen and there wouldn't be a siege of....that Gondor castle, however it's spelled.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahad I
It's a shame Boromir died so quickly, had he lived, Osgiliath would have never fallen and there wouldn't be a siege of....that Gondor castle, however it's spelled.
Would he really have made that much of a difference at Osgiliath ?
:laugh4: thread
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
Would he really have made that much of a difference at Osgiliath ?
:laugh4: thread
Faramir said that Boromir would have held Osgiliath, since he was a better captain of men.
Assuming we are using arguments from the books, not just the movie. :bow:
While we are at it, Boromir was not killed by the Uruk-hai arrows. There was a second shooter from behind the grassy knoll. I think he had a grey hat on.
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoshi
There was no canon in the movie...
weren't there cannons when the bad guys fleet were trying to blockade the good guys, and the good guys were shooting that ion cannon to escape? wait, no, that was empire strikes back. i always get these two movies mixed up.
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Re: gandalf the double agent
Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
While we are at it, Boromir was not killed by the Uruk-hai arrows. There was a second shooter from behind the grassy knoll. I think he had a grey hat on.
Gnoll's are from D&D which is a knock-off of Lord of the Rings. They (TSR/D&D) have already got in enough copyright problems with Hobbits er Halflings, no need to muddy the waters with Gnoll's. And as we all know from Red Dwarf Kennedy was the shooter behind the grassy knoll. :dizzy2:
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They don't make Fell Beasts like they used to...
I'll finish it off with one of my personal favourites...
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[img=https://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9237/326ce83cwa4.th.jpg]
!?
Isn't that the horse Gandalf rode on his way to Gondor? He uses it to scare halflings!
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Welcome to the Crappy Photoshop Hour...
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That ain't photoshop, Boromir took it himself before he could return it to the fellowship but he was killed by the gray-hatted double agent!
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This Boromir love-fest got me thinking about how Jackson really screwed him over in the movies. On film, Boromir is taken down with a mere three arrows. In the book, Boromir is described as being pierced by "many" arrows. I wonder why the difference. Is "many arrows" too unrealistic in a set of movies in which Legolas skateboards down a staircase on shield or kills on oliphant single-handedly then gracefully slides down its trunk (standing up!) as the beast dies?
I'm makiing up a t-shirt to wear: "Boromir got the shaft...3 of them!"
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Re: gandalf the double agent
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Originally Posted by Papewaio
Gnoll's are from D&D which is a knock-off of Lord of the Rings. They (TSR/D&D) have already got in enough copyright problems with Hobbits er Halflings, no need to muddy the waters with Gnoll's. And as we all know from Red Dwarf Kennedy was the shooter behind the grassy knoll. :dizzy2:
funny thing that you mentioned The Usual Suspects. now i know that you are circuitous but you're trying to be circumlocutory, so if i understand you correctly then gandalf is kaiser soze? that makes complete sense now, yes?
