Why Epirus instead of Illyria?

Why was Epirus included in EB instead of Illyria? It seems to me that Illyria was greater in power, and of greater size, than Epirus. Not to mention the fact that the Illyrian culture would have brung a more intresting acpect to the game; the Epiran culture is too hellenic and non unique. EB does already have plenty of hellenic factions.

If only for the fact that Epeiros in 272 BC was actually one political entity as opposed to the independent and in-fighting Illyrians?

And actually Epeiros is pretty unique insofar as that it is the Westernmost 'true' Western Greeks - relatively tribal compared to the other Greek factions, a different dialect from the lingua-franca that Attic had just about become, and most notable - those Illyrians you speak of a partly just Epeirotai by 272 BC, members of the league.

Finally at 272 BC Epeiros was the big guy of Hellas: bigger than Makedonia, and far bigger than any of the Leagues. Illyria would never become as significant during the game's timeframe as Epeiros was right at the start.

EDIT: You may want to keep in mind the various Illyrian ethnicities for Epeiros also; and note the existence of the Syrakosios and similar ones as well.

Epeiros was the dominant power in that region at our startdate. Also, Illyria would be poorly represented if it was all as one faction, when in fact it was a grouping of many different tribes. Representing it as one tribe would make it far less powerful and far less worthy of inclusion.

Foot

I was under the impression a few of the factions represented different tribes, like the Aedui, Arverni and Getai to name but three. How would representing the Illyrians in this way be any different? Not arguing with you by the way, it's a genuine query.

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

I was under the impression a few of the factions represented different tribes, like the Aedui, Arverni and Getai to name but three. How would representing the Illyrians in this way be any different? Not arguing with you by the way, it's a genuine query.

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AFAIK those tribes you just mentioned were far more powerfull than any Illyrian tribe in 272 bc

The Getai were tribes but as you see they start off with 1 town and you have "to unite the tribes" and excluding getai from the game leaved a Big gap cause they had their influences over eastern europe and the balkans:beam:

When the Illyrians were briefly more-or-less united they had the potential to become respectable imperialists but that's some forty years after EB's start, and even if the start date was moved including them as an R:TW faction would be impossible since they had a female regent and a minor de jure ruler, neither of which the engine would allow as the faction leader. So no Illyria for you:smash:

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

I was under the impression a few of the factions represented different tribes, like the Aedui, Arverni and Getai to name but three. How would representing the Illyrians in this way be any different? Not arguing with you by the way, it's a genuine query.

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Note that the Aedui, Arverni do not represent one tribe or just some tribes. They represent a historic confederation. (Just like the sweboz for that matter).

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Originally Posted by Brynjolfr

Why was Epirus included in EB instead of Illyria? It seems to me that Illyria was greater in power, and of greater size, than Epirus. Not to mention the fact that the Illyrian culture would have brung a more intresting acpect to the game; the Epiran culture is too hellenic and non unique. EB does already have plenty of hellenic factions.

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Can I ask you a question as well? Do you happen to be an albanian? I'm not being a racist my friend, just that every time I see a post like that the guy seems to be abanian 99% (now why would that be?:beam: ). Anyway, be well my friend and I can reccomend you many mods that include Illyria if yu are interested:yes:

I think the Epirote are FAR more interesting. Actually their inclusion, as well as the addition of the greater parts of the map, are my two favourite things about EB.
The Illyrians ALMOST became a 'faction' before Rome destroyed them. The Epirote were kinda cool for much longer, and existed Just long enough to be a serious force to be reckoned with. I'm so thrilled they're in the game, and even in their prime, Illyrians werent that much stronger than what can be represented by Eleutheroi so they're not even in the top 5 of factions I miss
(the only serious one here being Syracusans - I'm thinking of doing a version of Catos "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam" and then end ALL my posts in here, no matter the subject, with "Btw I think EB needs a Syracusan faction" ;P )

One name: Pyhrus.

You can't make him a rebel, just to have some tribes that became a force only as pirates and were defeated by the Romans.

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Originally Posted by Vorian

One name: Pyhrus.

You can't make him a rebel, just to have some tribes that became a force only as pirates and were defeated by the Romans.

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The illyrians became quite strong.... Stronger than Epeiros after Pyrhuss death.
And who wasn't defeated by the romans?:laugh4:

But they never actually did much did they ? Or even were really in much of a position to try to, right ? Pyrrhus could have and tried to - he just failed and got killed, which more or less spelled the curtains for the Epirotes.

For the sake of comparision, Alexander came quite literally to within an inch of losing his life at the Granicus; very little indeed would have been needed for him to have become yet another young hothead killed by his rash overconfidence, and some rather major periods of history would have worked out quite different indeed...

I've said it before and I'll say it again, since I hope the idea is workable. Many possible factions of smaller beginnings, such as Sweboz and the Lusitanians, in EB1 would greatly benefit from a similar system to that of Hayasdan: a representation of unification and consolidation. It'd be great to see a similar system for such possible factions as an Illyrian or Numidian tribe in EB2.

Another idea I hope is possible is the use of permanent forts to represent smaller towns or tribes in the region. In the case of a larger such as Rome, most of these permanent forts would either be empty or garrisoned by friendly troops, with the odd rebels popping up every now and then in the heartlands and more elsewhere. For smaller factions, the majority of surrounding forts would be filled with rebels, representing other tribes. If this could be combined with the proposed system of using a system of trade items and spawning invisible merchants to simulate additional income from owning a permanent fort I see a lot of potential for slowing down gameplay significantly while still keeping it active.

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Originally Posted by anubis88

The illyrians became quite strong.... Stronger than Epeiros after Pyrhuss death.
And who wasn't defeated by the romans?:laugh4:

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...The Sweboz? *cough*Teutobergerwald*cough*

They had a bit of a draw with the Parthians too.

And they hadn't really conquered any of them Steppe boys either. And they never defeated the KH !

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

And they never defeated the KH !

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That lot got taken home in a bag by the Macs, though... "I saw it first!" ~;p

I think Illyria wasn't a faction for a couple reasons.

1) At the time that EB starts, Illyria didn't have a whole lot going for it.

2)That general area is already crowded. It was a smart move to instead do the Getai, or the Sweboz or the Lusitanians, those areas needed to be filled with some competition.

3) Epirus was at a crossroads at this point. Still powerful, but facing trouble. EB gives the player the chance to stand at these same crossroads

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And they never defeated the KH !

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How could they? The KH had the greatest, most fool proof self destruction system ever made. :clown:
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Which would be an alliance between Athens and Sparta. Yup, that's a self destruct alright.

As for Illyria: I personally doubt it was ever unified (Livy talks about a king and then a Queen regent of the Illyrians, but then the hill tribes later revolt separately. And where does Demetrios fit into that?)

And since the Epirotes have access to Illyrian units, have Illyrian tribe ethnicites and were historically overrun during the brief ascendancy of the Illyrians (and in game tend to expand into Illyria themselves), why not consider latter day Epirotes as Illyrians?

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Valentine

Can I ask you a question as well? Do you happen to be an albanian? I'm not being a racist my friend, just that every time I see a post like that the guy seems to be abanian 99% (now why would that be?:beam: ). Anyway, be well my friend and I can reccomend you many mods that include Illyria if yu are interested:yes:

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i went to greece once and everybody spoke like this. It's like they were trying to sell me all this crap and they kept assuring me it's a bargain.

Extended Realism mod to RTR features BOTH Epeiros and Illyria...:viking: :charge:

Ad Geoffrey S - Excellent ideas! I prey to see them implemented eventually!:2thumbsup:

Epeiros has long been underrated, much as its greatest king Pyrrhos, even if it was one of the bastions against Romani, both in offense as well as in defense with the Molossians allying with the Makedones of Perseus against the Romani. The defeat of 168 BCE meant that its fate was forfeit. All 70 molossian towns were sacked and 150.000 Molossians, now slaves, were taken to Italia, never to be seen again. Thesprotoi and Chaones were left alone as they were Romani allies.

Another reason is that Epeirotes were fairly late into the "scene". Until 360 they were dwelling in villages, most were illiterate, herders who would go up in the summer and down in the winter on Pindos mountains, following their goat herds. It is post 360 BCE that larger towns began to emerge, and most of those were "synoikismoi" or banding together of villages. The easternmost territories of Epeiros, which would be the westernmost areas of Makedonia were very often in contest, with Elimeia, Orestis and Lynkestis often changing hands. Elimeia was Mollosian before Phillipos B', father of Megas Alexandros brought it back into the Makedonian kingdom. King Pyrrhos of the Molossoi was the first to be crowned "King of Epeiros" as he was the first one to bring ALL of the lands that Epeirotes dwelled in under one crown. Prior kings would be called "Leader of the alliance of Apeirotan" (as Epeirotes would call themselves in their version of dorian greek).

It is no doubt that Pyrrhos gets a very bad treatment. In all honesty he was just another "Do wonders or die trying" Hellenistic monarch. I can't really blame them as everyone tried to be "Megas Alexandros". In his time he was considered one of the best generals. In all honesty, he won most of his battles in his campaigns, but he did suck in overall strategy.

However, he is now considered a fop. I have no problem admitting that I used to believe the same :shame: , so I don't really blame anyone who has called him as such.

The reason is fairly obvious. He fought Roma. All those who did have been doomed as the objects of bad jokes, and worse propaganda which has been passed down upon us as "history". It is only now, after the work of Historians of the calliber of Hammond that the truth is finally known. It is only now that Celts and Greeks have been shown to be a much better "people" than were originally considered.

I hope, as the new FC of Epeiros, to try and show the Epeirotes of what they were, a small version of Makedones, but with different elements all to themselves, such as the council of "Damiourgoi" (loosely translated as "senior public servants") which would serve as advisory board to the king (many steles are found mentioning them), and NONE of which were Molossian.

So far as the relation with the Illyrians is concerned. It was friendly, most of the time. There were syncretic deities that both peoples worshipped, which did have a different name from Epeiros to Illyria. Pyrrhos himself was raised in Illyrian court, prior to fighting in Ipsos in 301 BCE on the Antigonid side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ipsus

Then he found refuge in Ptolemaic court, with Ptolemaios I considering him a son. In their literature, passed down to us one would start his letters as "Dear Father" the other would respond as "Dear Son".

It is all those things that people don't know about Pyrrhos, and just consider him a loose cannon,fop, unable to grasp victory, etc. Just as Perseus, the last king of Makedonia is considered to be a megalomaniac, hubris ridden figure, who started good but ended up doing terrible things...

...whereas the Romani were destined by "divine justice" to rule the world. If you take this into account it is no wonder that some mistakes are made, such as Plutarch calling Epeirote tribes Illyrians or what not. Plutarchos, while a greek in birth, is basically Roman. As such, he deffinitely considered all enemies of Roma, past and present as mortal enemies of his civilisation to be forever disgraced, and diminished. It is very important, when reading Romani history to remember that all history written in them, is basically the world as seen by Romani eyes. Winners write history and all that. A lot of very important stuff is there, and we should be grateful that they exist at all, but a thinking person needs to clear the chaff from the wheat.

At least Qin were more gratuitous. They just burned books which wrote bad things about them.

Not to forget, Pyrrhos was considered the second greatest general in history (until then, that is) by no one less than Hannibal.

I like the Epirotes, although they seem a little overpowered. Given a choice between another tribal confederacy, and Epiros, I support the epirotes. Still, I hope that an Illyrian faction (even an unplayable one) makes it into EB2. The Tribal factions make the game interesting for me when I am playing a "civilized faction". Generally speaking, the more the merrier, and I hope the Illyrians get added later, but not at the expense of the hard fighting Epirotes (who are busy conquering Italy in my current game, The Romans have lost Rome!).

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

Not to forget, Pyrrhos was considered the second greatest general in history (until then, that is) by no one less than Hannibal.

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Well, I have a feeling (as do most historians) that that little blurb in Livy is apocryphal, but the point stands.

The same could be said for many military leaders and having a better understanding of history and its main characters is certainly the goal of EB. Now, if I could just get my historical battles functioning you guys could read the descriptions and learn even more.

Celebrating the release of Vol. 1.1 and the inclusion of the battle of Asklo/Ausculum, here are 70 fully attested Epirotan names and their meaning...

Also from now on... "Apeirotai" was what they were calling themselves and this is how we should be calling them. Epirotan=(Of epiros) for other uses.

Call them what you will, but now you know how they should be called.

1. ALEXANDROS (Αλέξανδρος) m Ancient Greek (ALEXANDER Latinized)Pronounced: al-eg-ZAN-durFrom the Greek name Alexandros, which meant ‘defending men’ from Greek alexein ‘to defend, protect, help’ and aner ‘man’ (genitive andros). Alexander the Great, King of Macedon, is the most famous bearer of this name. The name was found also in Epirus, Thessaly, Corinth.

2. PYRRHOS (Πύρρος) m Ancient Greek (PYRRHUS Latinized)

Most famous bearers of this name are the Son of Achilles and Dieidameia and also Pyrrhos the Epirotan king, one of the best tacticians in ancient world. The name derives from the greek adj. Pyrrhos (= blond).

3. ALKETAS (Αλκέτας) m Ancient Greek (ALCAEUS Latinized)

Pronounced: al-SEE-usDerived from Greek Αλκη meaning ‘strength’. This was the name of a 7th-century BC lyric poet from the island of Lesbos.

4. ARRYBAS (Αρ[ρ]ύβας) m Ancient Greek

King of the Molossians. He was uncle of Olympias and Alexander of Epirus.It derives from the greek verb ρύομαι (= protect) + βαίνω (= go). Its full meaning is “go to protect”.


5. ALKON (Άλκων) m Ancient Greek

Possibly a king of Molossians. His name exists in the list of the “best of Greeks” attended to the court of the tyrant Cleisthenes of Sicyon in order to contest about his daughter’s hand. His name derives from Άλκη (=strenght)


6. NEOPTOLEMOS (Νεοπτόλεμος) m Ancient Greek

Son of Achilles. Also the same name bore kings of Molossia. Means ‘new war’, derived from Greek neos ‘new’ and polemos ‘war’.
7. ADMETOS (Άδμητος) m Ancient Greek

It was the name of the Molossian king at the time Themistocles fled to the court of Molossians. Derives from the word a+damaw(damazw) and mean tameless,obstreperous.Damazw mean chasten, prevail


8. AEACIDES (Αιακίδης) m Ancient Greek

King of Epirus, father of Pyrrhos. His name means the descedant of Aeacos.


9. POLYXENA (Πολυξένη) f ancient Greek

The original name of Olympias, mother of Alexander the great, as a child. (W. Heckel) It derives from the greek adj. Πολύξενος (= very hospitable).


10. OLYMPIAS (Oλυμπιάδα) f Ancient Greek

Mother of Alexander the Great. She took this name after her husband’s success in Olympic games. It means “the one related with Olympus/Olympics”


11. ANDROCLES (Ανδροκλής) m Ancient Greek

One of the two Molossians who saved the infant Pyrrhos. It derives from the greek noun “ανήρ” (= man (genitive andros)) + Kleos (glory).


12. ARISTOMACHOS (Aριστόμαχος) m Ancient Greek

Aristomachos was from Omfalos. His name was found in a inscription of Dodona in 343-331a. (SGDI II 1334 — Cabanes, L’Épire (1976) 540,4)Derived from the Greek adj aristos (=best) + Mache (=war). Its full meaning is “best on war”.


13. MENEDAMOS (Μενέδαμος) m Ancient Greek

Menedamos was from Omfalos.His name was found in a inscription of Dodona in 343-331a. (SGDI II 1334 — Cabanes, L’Épire (1976) 540,4). His name derives from from Greek meno (=to last, to withstand) + damos (doric of demos “people”) Its full meaning is “the one who withstands people”


14. AMYNANDROS (Αμύνανδρος) m Ancient Greek

Amynandros was son of Eryxis. His name was found on Molossian decrees. It derives from the greek verb αμύνω (=defend) + aner (=‘man’ (genitive andros)). Its full meaning is ” to defend men”


15. DOKIMOS (Δόκιμος) m Ancient Greek

Ηε was son of Eryxis αnd brother of Amynandros. His name was found on Molossian decrees. It derives from greek adj. Δόκιμος (=superb)


16. TROAS(Τρωάς) f ancient Greek

Sister of Olympias and wife of her uncle Arrybas. Her name means “The one from Troy”. According to the legend the Molossian royal house had an ancestry also from Troy.


17. AGATHON (Αγάθων) M Ancient Greek

Agathon was son of Echephylos. His name is found on the Molossian decrees.His name derives from greek noun “αγαθά”(=wealth) meaning the “one who has wealth”.


18. BEROE (Bερώη) f Ancient Greek

Daughter of king Arrybas and wife of the Illyrian king Glaukos. She brought up Pyrrhos when he was a child. Her name derives from the greek verb “φέρω” (=bring ie in north-west greek dialect f becomes b)


19. MEGAS (Mέγας) m Ancient Greek

Megas was an Epirotan, son of Sinon. His name was found on the Molossian decrees. His name derives from the greek adj “μέγας” (=great).


20. PHILOXENOS (Φιλόξενος) m Ancient Greek

He was an Epirotan from Dodone. His name was found on the Molossian decrees. Meaning ‘friend of strangers’ derived from Greek philos meaning friend and xenos meaning ‘stranger, foreigner’.


21. KLEOMACHOS (Κλεόμαχος) m Ancient Greek

Kleomachos was an Atintanian. His name was found on the molossian decrees. It derives from Greek kleos (=glory) + Mache (=war)

22. EUALKOS (Eύαλκος) m Ancient Greek

He was a Molossian. His name was found on c. 232-168a. ( Epigrafia romana in area Adriatica (1998) 29, 1 ) It derives from greek adj Ευαλκής (=strong, powerful)


23. LYKIDAS (Λυκίδας) m Ancient Greek

He was a chaonian. His name was found on c. 232-168a. ( Epigrafia romana in area Adriatica (1998) 29, 1). It derives from Λύκη (=bright) + the greek ending -das. It means “the bright”.


24. AISCHRION (Αισχρίων) m Ancient Greek

His name was found in an inscription of Dodona (c. 300a. — JHS 74 (1954) 56-58) It derives from the greek adj. Αισχρός (=shameful). + greek ending -ion. it means the descedant of Aischros.


25. HELLINOS (Ελληνος) m Ancient Greek

A Chaonian, father of Lykidas and His name was found on c. 232-168a. ( Epigrafia romana in area Adriatica (1998) 29, 1). His name derives from Hellene (=Greek).


26. AGESANDROS (Αγήσανδρος) m Ancient Greek

Son of Lamiskos from Bouthrotion, (Epeiros — Bouthrotos (Butrint) — c. 232-168a. — Epigrafia romana in area Adriatica (1998) 29, 1 )His name derives from the greek verb Άγω (=lead) + Ανδρός (= men, dotic of aner). Its full meaning is “the one who leads men”.


27. APOLLODOROS m Ancient Greek

Means ‘gift of Apollo’ from the name of the god Apollo combined with Greek doron ‘gift’. The patronymic of an epirotan found on Bouthrotos (Epeiros — Bouthrotos (Butrint) — c. 232-168a. — Epigrafia romana in area Adriatica (1998) 29, 1)


28.NIKANOR (Nικάνωρ) m ancient Greek

It means “victor” - from Nike (Νικη) meaning “victory”.Nicanor was a common name in Epirus as it was found on many inscriptions.(Epigr. tou Oropou 136 c. 240-180a )


29. ARCHEDAMOS (Αρχέδαμος) m ancient Greek

Arcedamos was an epirotan from Bouthrotos. (Bouthrotos (Butrint) — c. 232-168a. — Epigrafia romana in area Adriatica (1998) 29, 1 ) His name derive from greek verb Άρχω (=head or be in command) + Δαμός (= people, doric of demos).


30.ANTIGONE f ancient Greek

Usage: Greek Mythology Pronounced: an-TIG-o-neeMeans ‘against birth’ from Greek anti ‘against’ and gone ‘birth’. In Greek legend Antigone was the daughter of Oedipus and Jocasta. She was the name of a Molossian woman. (IG II² 9972 Attica )

31. HEKATAIOS m Ancient Greek

He was a Molossian. (Amyzon 59 Fragment of list of stephanephoroi, including [Chion]is Chionidos, on block of white marble; II2/I; found at Amyzon: Robert, Amyzon no. 52 (PH); BE 1984:429. ) It means the “one who belongs to the goddess Hecate)


32. KALLIPHON (Καλλιφών) m Ancient Greek

Kalliphon was a Molossian and his name was found in an inscription. (Magnesia 49 Decree of boule and demos of Paros accepting invitation of Magnesia Mai. to Leukophryena) It derives from Kallos (=beauty) + φωνή (=voice). It means the “one who has beautiful voice”


33. LEON (Λέων) m Ancient Greek

Α Molossian. His name was found in an inscription (Olymos 57 Caria). It derives from ‘Leon’ = ‘lion’


34. ARTEMIDOROS (Αρτεμίδωρος) m Ancient Greek

He was a Molossian. (Aphrodisias 32 Caria)His name derives from the name Artemis and δώρο (=gift). Its full meaning is “gift from Artemis”.


35. DIODOROS (Διόδωρος) m Ancient Greek

He was a Molossian. (Aphrodisias 306 Caria) His name derives from the name Διας and δώρο (=gift). Its full meaning is “gift from Dias/Zeus”.

36. ANTIPATROS (Αντίπατρος) m Ancient Greek (ANTIPATER Latinized)

Pronounced: an-TI-pa-turFrom the Greek name Antipatros, which meant ‘like the father’ from Greek anti ‘like’ and pater ‘father’. This was the name of an Epirote found in an inscription. (ID 298 Delos — 240 a)


37. ASKLΑPIOS (Ασκληπιός) m Ancient Greek

He was a Chaonian and son of Andronikos (Bouthrotos (Butrint) — c. 220-170/160a.) His name is taken from the god Asklepios.


38. ARISTOKLEIA (Αριστόκλεια) f ancient Greek

She was daughter of Aristoteles. (IG II² 8532 attica )Derived from the Greek elements aristos ‘best’ and kleos ‘glory’.


39. ARISTOTELES (Αριστοτέλης) m Ancient Greek (ARISTOTLE Latinized)

Pronounced: AR-is-taw-tulFrom the Greek name Aristoteles which meant ‘the best purpose’, derived from aristos ‘best’ and telos ‘purpose, aim’. This was the name also of an important Greek philosopher who made contributions to logic, metaphysics, ethics and biology among many other fields.


40. KALLIAS (Καλλίας) m Ancient Greek

An Epirotan.(IG II² 8546 Attica) His name derives from the greek adj. Kallias (=peaceful)


41. PHILIPPOS (Φίλιππος) m Ancient Greek (PHILIP Latinized)

Pronounced: FIL-ipFrom the Greek name Philippos which means ‘friend of horses’, composed of the elements philos ‘friend’ and hippos ‘horse’. The name was borne by five kings of Macedon, including Philip II the father of Alexander the Great and also by Thessalians and Epirotans (IG XI,4 635 Delos — med III a)


42. BERENIKE (Βερενίκη) f Ancient Greek (BERENICE Latinized)

Pronounced: ber-e-NIE-seeMeans ‘bringing victory’ from pherein ‘to bring’ and nike ‘victory’. This name was common among the Ptolemy ruling family of Egypt as well into Epirus and Macedonia. (Agora 17 456 Attica)


43. FILON (Φιλων) m Ancient Greek

An Epirotan. (IG XII,8 594 Thasos) His name derives from Filos (=friend)


44. ARISTOKLES (Αριστοκλής) m Ancient Greek

A Molossian, son of Artemidoros. (Aphrodisias 32 Caria) His name derives from Ariston (=best) + Kleos (=glory).


45. STRATONIKE (Στρατονίκη) f Ancient Greek (STRATONICE Latinized)

Means ‘victorious army’ from stratos ‘army’ and nike ‘victory’. According to W. Heckel, one of the names of Olympias.


46. GLAUKOS (Γλαύκος) m Ancient Greek

An Epirotan. (IG II² 8533 Attica) It derives from the greek adj. “Γλαυκός” (= brilliant).


47. FALAKRION (Φαλακρίων) m Ancient Greek

He was a Thesprotian. (IG IV²,1 99,II Epidauria). It derives from the greek noun “Falakros” and has the meaning of “bald”. Its full meaning is “the descendant of Falakros.


48. ANTIOCHOS (Αντίοχος) m Ancient Greek

An Epirotan, son of Nikanor. (I.Kourion 60 Kypros — Kourion — c. 250a.)


49. DEINON (Δείνων) m Ancient Greek

An Epirotan. (IG XI,4 635 Delos — med III a). His name derives from ‘deinow’ = ‘to make terrible’.


50. EYTYCHIS (Ευτυχίς) f Ancient Greek

Epirotan woman, daughter of Neoptolemos (IG II² 8535 Attica)Her namer derives from the greek noun Ευτυχία (=Happiness)

51. LEONTIS (Λεωντίς) f Ancient Greek

Epirotan, daughter of Nikados (IG II² 8539 Attica). It derives from Greek noun Leon (=Lion)


52. NIKADOS (Νίκαδος) m Ancient Greek

An epirotan. (IG II² 8539 Attica). It means “the descedant of Nikon”.


53. PATROKLOS (Πάτροκλος) m Ancient Greek

An Epirotan. (Epigr. tou Oropou 586) A Mythological name. It derives from the greek πάτηρ (=father) + kleos (=glory).


54. FANIAS (Φανίας) m Ancient Greek

A Molossian. (Aphrodisias 306 Caria) One of the most common Greek names, specially found in Athens.

55. RODIOS (Ρόδιος) m Ancient Greek

An Epirotan, son of Rodippos. (IG II² 8544 Attica). It derives from the noun ρόδη(=rose)

56. LYSIAS (Λυσίας) m Ancient GreekAn Epirotan. (IG XII,Suppl 631 Euboia — Eretria — IIIa.) It derives from the greek adj. Lysios (=the one who liberates)


57. RODIPPOS (Ρόδιππος) m Ancient Greek

An Epirotan (IG II² 8544 Attica). It derives from the It derives from the adj ρόδης(=too handsome) + ίππος (=horse). Its full meaning is “too beautiful horse”

58. FILOTEIA (Φιλωτεία) f ancient Greek

An Epirotan woman. (SEG 46:791 Poteidaia-Kassandreia) Her name derives from filos (=friendly) + ending -teia. Its full meaning is “Too friendly”


59. STEPHANOS (Στέφανος) m ancient Greek

An Epirotan. (IG II² 8545 attica). His name derives from greek noun στέφανος (= wreath)


60. GLAUKETAS (Γλαυκέτας) m ancient Greek

An Epirotan. (IG II² 8534 Attica) It derives from the greek adj. “Γλαυκός” (= brilliant) + ending -etas.


61. PARMENISKOS (Παρμενίσκος) m ancient Greek

An Epirotan, son of Alexandros (Thess. Mnemeia 232,46). It means “the little Parmenon”


62. ZOPYROS (Ζώπυρος) m ancient Greek

A Molossian. (Olymos 54 Caria) It derives from the greek adj. Zopyros (=the one who is inflamed)

63. DAIPPOS (Δάιππος) m ancient Greek

An Epirotan proxenos of the Oropos city, son of Nikanor (Epigr. tou Oropou 136 c. 240-180a) It derives from the greek adj. δάιος (=frightful) + ϊππος (=horse). Its full meaning is “frightful horse”.

64. DEINOMENES (Δεινομένης) m ancient Greek

A Molossian. (Lindos II 2 99a.) It derives from the greek adj. Δεινός (=wild) + μένος (= power).

65. ALKEMACHOS (Αλκήμαχος) m ancient Greek

An Epirotan, son of Haropos. He won in diaulon in Panhellenic games. (IG II² 2313 Attica 194/3) It derives from Alke (=strenght) + Mache (=war)


66. SAMIPPOS (Σάμιππος) m ancient Greek

A Molossian (Att. — Athens: Akr. — med s IV a IG II² 3827) It derives from the greek adj. Σαμός (= tall) + ίππος (=horse), meaning “tall horse”.

67. ANTANOR (Αντάνωρ) m ancient Greek

A Chaonian Proxenos, son of Euthumides. (FD III 4:409 Delphi 325-275 bc — SIG(3) 379) It derives from the greek preposition anti (=equal to) + Aner (=man). It means “equal to man”

68. EFTHIMIDES (Ευθυμίδης) m ancient Greek

A Chaonian proxenos. (FD III 4:409 Delphi proxenia Chaonian 325-275 bc — SIG(3) 379) It derives from the greek adj. Εύθυμος (=cheerful) + the greek ending -ides.

69. NIKOLAOS (Νικόλαος) m ancient Greek

An Epirotan tragodos. (IG XI,2 108 Delos — 279 bc) It derives from νικώ (=win) + λαός (=people). It means the “winner of people”

70. KALLIKRATES (Καλλικράτης) m ancient Greek

A Molossian (Aphrodisias 24 Caria). It derives from κάλλος (=nice, beauty, good) + κρατος (=law, rule). It means the “one who has good rule”.

source...
http://history-of-macedonia.com/word...pirotan-names/

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Valentine

Can I ask you a question as well? Do you happen to be an albanian? I'm not being a racist my friend, just that every time I see a post like that the guy seems to be abanian 99% (now why would that be?:beam: ). Anyway, be well my friend and I can reccomend you many mods that include Illyria if yu are interested:yes:

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Actually, what is today's Albania would be about the size and position of Epirus (speaking purely geographical terms, not ethnical or cultural). Antiquity's Illyria would be more or less Ex-Yugoslavia.
So yes, you seem kinda racist (no offense). :2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by machinor

Actually, what is today's Albania would be about the size and position of Epirus (speaking purely geographical terms, not ethnical or cultural). Antiquity's Illyria would be more or less Ex-Yugoslavia.
So yes, you seem kinda racist (no offense). :2thumbsup:

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Not really. Ancient Epirus would reach into an area even smaller than modern Greek Epirus, and Illyria would be a vast territory above it reaching undecipherable borders in the north.

a map
https://img166.imageshack.us/img166/...fe0951oph4.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by machinor

Actually, what is today's Albania would be about the size and position of Epirus (speaking purely geographical terms, not ethnical or cultural). Antiquity's Illyria would be more or less Ex-Yugoslavia.
So yes, you seem kinda racist (no offense). :2thumbsup:

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For this reason it always puzzles me that Albanians identify with the Illyrians rather than the Epirotes, to the extent that Albanian websites even have the identifier .il
Can anyone explain why this is?

Because present day Albania is where the Illyrians fled to after having their territories being taken over by mostly Slavic invaders, much later than EB timeline.

-thanks for the map Scundoo-

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Because present day Albania is where the Illyrians fled to after having their territories being taken over by mostly Slavic invaders, much later than EB timeline.

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So those Albanians saying Alexandros III was Albanian came never even near the truth?

There was a lot of inter-marrying among the Royal houses, so there was deffinitely Illyrian blood in Alexander III, as well as Thraikian. Imagine Victorian like marrying among the Royal houses of the time.

However, his father was Phillipos B of the Temenids dynasty of Makedonia with Herakles as a divine ancestor, his mother Olympias from the Aiakides dynasty of Epeiros with Neoptolemos, son of Achilles as a divine ancestor. Both were Greeks.

Alexandros III of Makedonia was educated by Aristoteles, in my opinion the single best philosopher/scientist that Hellenism produced. One of his works "of Geography" translated into Latin in 1430's has this to say... "Earth is a small place, and it is entirely possible that one can sail around it and can reach the point of origin". Christopher Colombus must have read that. Alexandros III did too.

Alexandros III was Greek, of both greek parents, greek ancestry, greek speaking, and brought greek thought on the whole of the world. His genious made Hellenistic world possible.

Albanians of today and FyroMacedonians of today can claim Alexandros all they want. They are simply wrong. I would say

stinking liars,

, but that is for any thinking person to decide. :beam:

Well, finding Epirus is easy. You just look for the gap in Philip II's empire. As to who can claim ownership of Alexander III, well no one can. He doesn't seem to have any decendants.

Maybe Egypt, given that they have Alexandria.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

He doesn't seem to have any decendants.

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That bastard Cassander :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keravnos

Alexandros III of Makedonia was educated by Aristoteles, in my opinion the single best philosopher/scientist that Hellenism produced. One of his works "of Geography" translated into Latin in 1430's has this to say... "Earth is a small place, and it is entirely possible that one can sail around it and can reach the point of origin". Christopher Colombus must have read that. Alexandros III did too.

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Columbus took the smallest possible assessment of the size of the Earth, in total contradiction to Eratosthenes and most others. He was a crank who got lucky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Well, finding Epirus is easy. You just look for the gap in Philip II's empire. As to who can claim ownership of Alexander III, well no one can. He doesn't seem to have any decendants.

Maybe Egypt, given that they have Alexandria.

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Funny you should say that. An afghan working in the office of a friend of mine has absolutely no qualms about it. Alexandros was greek, his people lived in Afghanistan for centuries, and his memory is very much alive there. He did find it insulting, however, when the Slavs in our Northern borders claimed him and asked why didn't Greek government did something about it.

Tell you what, Alexandros belongs to the Afghanis, their Iskandar, given that they have at least 5 Alexandreias on their soil.

One can be shown below, along with probable locations of IndoGreek cities founded after his time.
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...ndara_map2.gif

Personally, I would have no problem whatsoever if an Afghani were to come forth and claim Alexandros, as his wife was Afghan, and his kid had he lived would be half Afghan much like Antiochos I (son of Seleukos I) was.

The Slavic population of what is now called FYROMacedonia, however has absolutely NO RELATION WHATSOEVERto Megas Alexandros, nor his people. Back when they entered the area at 7th century CE they were Bulgars. Then they were Vardars,
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/...tampof1939.png

(a Yugoslavian stamp of 1939 depicting their country, called Vardarska). And then, when Tito the Communist leader took over, they became "Macedonia" in order to claim the spoils of the civil war (aka Greek Makedonia) that was going on between Greek government and communist guerillas.

U.S. is now helping to further the cause of Tito's failed gambit. I really don't understand how US is ACTIVELY promoting a failed communist cause. Why don't they help Castro family cement its authority, too?

They used to, remember?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keravnos

U.S. is now helping to further the cause of Tito's failed gambit. I really don't understand how US is ACTIVELY promoting a failed communist cause. Why don't they help Castro family cement its authority, too?

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:laugh4: I wouldn't put it past them.

Castro had his chance... Of he would have been a capitalist dictator he would still be in power! Oh wait....

I think the illyrians were mostly "bolossed" by the epirotes :laugh4:

I think you need to look around the fact that Epiros was bested by the romans. Epiros would have become a much bigger player in the mediterrainian had Pyrros not had to face the romans outside Tarentum. If Epiros had had the freedom to concentrate their forces elsewhere who knows how powerful they could have been? Whereas in contrast the Illyrians were a tribal pirate nation...maybe with some potential, but unlikely to ever become a world power. All in all i think epiros is included and not Illyria just because its about what they could have been, not what they were. Games are about changing history's path

Kervanos, I was going over the names, and their meanings and I found three really quickly that has the same meanings as in Armenian.

to name a few:

Greek: Agathon ( wealth) Armenian: Agah (greedy)

Greek: Beroe (bring) Armenian: ber (bring)

Greek: meno (to last) Armenian: mena (stay, stay put)

~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

Not to forget, Pyrrhos was considered the second greatest general in history (until then, that is) by no one less than Hannibal.

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Indeed. Pyrrhos was beaten by superior Roman logistics - the Romans could replace their losses more quickly than the Greeks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keravnos

a Yugoslavian stamp of 1939 depicting their country, called Vardarska.

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In Aromanian, the languages Bulgarian and Macedonian have similar forms to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keravnos

U.S. is now helping to further the cause of Tito's failed gambit. I really don't understand how US is ACTIVELY promoting a failed communist cause.

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Don't you know conflict is profitable?

Anyway there is no way to effectively represent Illyria while still keeping the game balanced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artavazd

Kervanos, I was going over the names, and their meanings and I found three really quickly that has the same meanings as in Armenian.

to name a few:

Greek: Agathon ( wealth) Armenian: Agah (greedy)

Greek: Beroe (bring) Armenian: ber (bring)

Greek: meno (to last) Armenian: mena (stay, stay put)

~:cheers:

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Hehe, let the resident Iranophile elaborate a bit more on the lingual similarities:

Wealth: Âdan/Âdanîh

Bring/Bear/Bearer: Bar/Burdâr

Stay/Linger/House/Dwelling: Mând/Mân

Here's a Jägerbomb for the three giants of the Antiquity :medievalcheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Hehe, let the resident Iranophile elaborate a bit more on the lingual similarities:

Wealth: Âdan/Âdanîh

Bring/Bear/Bearer: Bar/Burdâr

Stay/Linger/House/Dwelling: Mând/Mân

Here's a Jägerbomb for the three giants of the Antiquity :medievalcheers:

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The more I study Lingustics and the cultures of these three people the more I see a common root in them. ~:cheers:

This is generalizing it, but when I look at the lingusitics and cultures of the three people its like Armenian is the missing link between Greek and Iranian, and Phrygian (they dont culturaly exist anymore) are the missing link between Armenians and Greeks