I'll excuse myself from this debate, since I have no idea what you guys are talking about. :-)
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I'll excuse myself from this debate, since I have no idea what you guys are talking about. :-)
Hello,Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
True.
Apart from the cavalry, the Mongols do not have a speedadvantage either.
I'm not talking about an all MC army (it will be fruitless to hunt 16 skirmishing MLC on a big map), that was not the intention of MI. The army had better cavalry and worse infantry and those had to be mixed.
The Japanese footarchers can indeed beat the MLC in a static missile duel. The MLC will be destroyed and the Japanese even have some archers left to fight the rest of the Mongol army.
The only thing I fear when facing the Japanese is that my MHC impales on the spearsamurai. The MLC arrows are for the spears, or for the nodachi (they have less armour and less of them makes it easier for my infantry vs the Japanese infantry).
To avoid the spears being shot by the MLC, the Japanese foot archers have to be far out. But when they are the MLC will charge them (of course it's nice to get rid of them quickly). There are two groups of MLC on both flanks and they'll do anything to make it easier for the second wave.
Move the entire Japanese army up, keep the units together, and don't give the Mongols the whole field and time.
I recall the 105 stats Orda. Toda stats was the other name for them if I'm not mistaken?Quote:
Originally Posted by Orda Khan
http://www.mizus.com/files/files/STW_WE/stats/ both the 106 and 105 are available here. Did you ever make 107 public or did you mail them to me?
They were something I did during the time of RTW, I never made them available as a public download, not too many people are interested in the older games, especially MI. MI never was popular, even on the old EA server, most probably because of the imbalance of 1.02.
We had a few fun Mongol v Mongol battles with Mod 103, I remember.
There were very few decent games with RTW and I lost interest with MP. VI no longer worked with the GPU drivers I was using but STW and MI were fine, so I started a SP Mongol campaign using 103 stats and immediately I remembered how weak they were so I decided to have a go at balancing their stats.
Using 8000 koku as the standard, as we had in 103, I felt that making the strength differences smaller was the way to go and improved the Mongol infantry while also narrowing the deficit between Mongol and Japanese cavalry. Japanese always had the luxury of much cheaper units so the deficits could not be too narrow, obviously. Because of this, I gave MHC a speed advantage over JHC and MLC had a melee advantage over JCA still. Naginata and Korean Guardsmen were relatively similar, I do not remember if the KG may have had a slight speed advantage or not but their high cost prevented many from being fielded. Yari Samurai still had an upper hand over Korean Spearmen but not the massive advantage they had in 103. Korean Skirmishers were an important unit, if you used them well you could reduce Japanese numbers in order for your KS to become more effective. The Skirmishers still remained vulnerable in melee so they had to be protected.
Thunder Bombers were a 20 man unit again and useless if it rained. If it remained dry they were still unpredictable and could cost you the battle with indiscriminate kills.
No doubt there were a few areas that could have been tweaked and more MP tests would have highlighted them but there's not the interest. Overall, I though it played quite well.
I was only asking about the Mongol situation here because they were mentioned way back when Barocca was asking for possible units and making hero slots, I thought there may have been some progress
........Orda
From memory I believe Toda made the 105 stats and then later the 106 stats.
At the time he sent them to me for me to try them out and to give him some feedback. The 106 stats were never used but they were good.
I may have a copy of your 107 stats on my old PC Orda.
Can this mod work without the the viking invasion expansion and the VI patch 2.01?
Hello Grimmjow1982,Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimmjow1982
i'm sorry but our mod needs the advancements that the Viking expansion brings. Only with Viking Invasion it's possible to add a campaign, like we do. I highly recommend the expansion anyway, it should be cheap to get and it's worth its money.
R'as
I was reading old threads in the forums and i found plenty of talk about fatigue bug, moral circles bug, defense bug, corner bug...and other bugs in the MTW engine... so i was wondering how do u consider the MTW engine superior to STW one....?
Morale circles? IIRC one guy kept on rambling about circles but never seemed to explain what was wrong.
Only fatigue bug I'm familar with, are missile units being able to reload without causing fatigue if you put fire at will off just after they have shot, and then turn it on again when you know they are ready to shoot again. But that is really only seen slow firing units like crossbows and I dont think anyone has tested if its similar in STW (but most likely it is since its a small oversight by CA)
Not sure what defense bug is, but I know of one problem giving defense an advantage in bow/crossbow fights as there seem to be a permanent wind coming from defenders side that gives a bonus to their missile accuracy or power. In STW the wind direction/force was random while in MTW its not completely clear if the wind force is random.
That is a very annoying bug but OTOH it does not assist guns which is the mainstay missile unit in Samwars.
So why does some of us still consider MTW/VI engine to be better? Stuff like cav charge bug and red zoning is gone. Upgrades are no longer way too cheap, You no longer have a permanent -8 morale penalty after a general has been killed. Units now rout away from enemy units instead of just in a straight line back to defenders start line. There might be a few more things.
In STW it was not possible to change a simple thing like unit cost, so modding is better in MTW/VI.
So both engines have their fair share of bugs but the overall playing experience in MTW/VI IMO feels better but Im sure some prefer STW.
CBR
Those aren't bugs, and those battle mechanics are the same in STW and MTW engines. You can't go into the red zone in MTW, but you can play on larger maps so it isn't an issue. The MTW engine is better because in MP the battlefield upgrades were removed, in SP the suicide general was fixed, and in both a unit routs away from the threatening unit. You can disengage a unit in the MTW engine, and the morale system is more complex especially the outnumbering penalty which takes into account the number of men in a unit and their quality. In STW, only the large flags were counted for outnumbering purposes, and it didn't matter if there was 60 men or only 1 man in the unit. There are 3 different quality levels of units for morale purposes, and units under ranged fire only suffer a morale penalty when they sustain casualties. In STW, a unit was under constant morale penalty the whole time it was targeted even if it sustained no casualties from the ranged fire. In MTW, dead men take their ammo with them reducing the total killing power of the unit unlike STW where a unit would retain all of the unused ammo from the dead men in the unit and suffer no reduction in total killing power of its ranged weapon. So in MTW it's more important tactically not to loose men in a ranged unit, and the shooing phase of the battle is not prolonged. In the MTW engine you have shields, armor piercing, rank bonus for spears and artillery, although, we don't use those features in Samurai Wars. Castles are implemented better in MTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobunaga
You have more control over the unit parameters in MTW. For instance, you can control the size of the anti-cav bonus or if a unit is disciplined or undisciplined, and more importantly you can have completely separate unit stats (except for projectile parameters) and separate unit sets in SP and MP. This is important because the optimal morale level for the units is not the same in SP and MP, and neither are the unit costs. In replays which are easy to save, you can see the morale and the fatigue state of each unit which helps in determining why a unit routed when watching a replay.
The only deficiencies I see in the MTW engine compared to the STW engine is a bug in the single player computer AI. Occasionally the AI will overlap multiple units which are under ranged attack. This can happen when the human's forces are stronger than the compuiter's army and the AI chooses not to advance on the human's army. Also, you cannot cross water in MTW, and trees are less dense. However, trees still have a strong influence on tactics (they are larger in diameter), so I don't really see that as a deficiency. It does create a visualization problem where a unit at the edge of the trees looks like it is beyond the trees but is in fact still inside the tree line.
Units rotate more slowly in MTW which some players consider a deficiency. If you look at STW they rotate too fast in my opinion. The optimal rotation speed is probably something in between the two games. The slow rotation speed in MTW means that unit formation is more important when moving a unit in some direction other than straight ahead. Wide formations are cumbersome to reposition, so using wedge or square for moving is more important.
There is bug in STW v1.12 with charge bonus and I don't know to what extent it affects STW/MI v1.02. In the older game the charge bonus doesn't work when cav charges any kind on infantry. ShingenKrypta and I discovered this when were were testing STW v1.12 during the development of Samurai Wars. This is why players used to call cavalry "mounted infantry" in STW. If you look at the charge bonuses in STW/MI v1.02 you'll see that we had to make them huge to have an effect. We had to cut these charge bonuses way back in Samurai Wars because the charge works much better in the MTW engine. Cav can push back infantry even if they are carrying a spear in MTW, but in STW spears were never pushed back by cav.
That was Kocmoc and he thought the morale circles were too large. Maybe that had some validity on small maps and low morale battles, but on large maps with morale optimized the size of those circles (75 meters) seems fine to me. In any case, those circles are the same size in both the STW and MTW engines.Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR
i guess that fatigue rates are the same in both engines but the bigger maps + higher armor make a difference in VI.
btw did anyone find a way to run MTW/VI on newer VGA cards?
That's why the gameplay is faster paced in Samurai Wars than in MTW/VI. In particular, the skirmish phase of the battle is much shorter than was typical in MTW/VI, and unit speeds were returned to STW speeds which also helps. Teppo move much faster than pav xbows, and they only have 7 minutes of ammo. The walking speed of the naginata was also increased for that reason, although, we left the running speed the same as in STW. Unit armor is on average less than in MTW/VI with the heaviest armor = 5 (naginata, heavy cav and hatamoto), 10 units in the range of 1 to 3 and naginata cav with armor = 4. Melee combat is also generally faster than in MTW/VI, although, naginata will usually hold for a long time. A Samurai Wars team battle on a large map will typically take 20 to 30 minutes unless the players are hesitant to engage. In the SP campaign game all battles take place on small maps as was the case in STW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobunaga
Rate of fatigue for running cavalry is actually 10% less than in STW to compensate for the larger maps. Infantry rate of fatigue is unchanged.
I wonder about that too Nobunaga. It's still no luck on the GF8 series afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobunaga
i also recall the route bug in STW/MI.
hmmmm, In MI the speed was higher than that in STW/MTW/VI, thus the high fatigue rates were not a problem.
Have anyone tried to reduce fatigue rates in VI? I think this can be done thru modifying the exe file. I can dig into this (once my finals finish in 31). Reducing the fatigue rates will make this mod the ultimate TW experience. CA shouldn't mind since this game is over 5 years old. Hell ID release their old source code whenever they release a new game.
i have a quick question about the mod, which version should i dl? verion 5? or version 8?
Hi gorilla325
i see you found your way here. :yes:
If you want to play MP (online) you need to download Beta 5+Add on+Mappack 1-3Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla325
If you want to play SP you need to download Beta 8
Look at the Links in Puzz3D's signature as I explained to you when we were in the multiplayer Foyer. :o)
Actually, infantry speeds in STW v1.12 were 20% faster than in STW/MI v1.02. The cavalry charge faster in STW/MI v1.02, the cavalry archer has faster run speed and the naginata walk faster, but that it. Samurai Warlords returns unit walk and run speeds to STW v1.12 speeds, except for naginata which walk faster, and increases the charge speeds to 20% higher than run speed. The minimum walk speed used in Samurai Warlords is speed = 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobunaga
In STW v1.12 the run speed and charge speeds were the same, but Samurai Warlords makes charge speed 20% faster than run speed. In the MTW/VI engine, cavalry has 10% less fatigue rate than it did in STW which helps it range over the large maps more effectively. Unit turning speed is much faster in STW and STW/MI than in MTW. We tried to increase the turning speed somewhat in Samurai Warlords, but found no parameter that had any noticeable effect on it.
Unit speeds (walk, run, charge):
STW v1.12
Naginata.............4, 8, 8
SamuraiArchers... 6, 10, 10
YariSamurai.........6, 10, 10
YariAshigaru........7, 12, 12
Nodachi..............7, 12, 12
WarriorMonk........7, 12, 12
Arquebusier.........7, 12, 12
Musketeer...........7, 12, 12
CavalryArchers.....8, 20, 20
HeavyCavalry.......8, 20, 20
YariCavalry.........10, 24, 24
STW/MI v1.02
Naginata.............5, 8, 8
SamuraiArchers....5, 9.2, 11
YariSamurai.........5, 8, 9.5
YariAshigaru........5, 10, 12
Nodachi..............5, 10, 12
WarriorMonk........5, 10, 12
Arquebusier.........5, 7.5, 9
Musketeer...........5, 8.4, 10
CavalryArchers.....8, 23, 27.6
HeavyCavalry.......8, 20, 24
YariCavalry..........8, 24, 28.8
Samurai Warlords
Naginata.............6, 8, 10
SamuraiArchers... 6, 10, 12
YariSamurai.........6, 10, 12
YariAshigaru........7, 12, 14
Nodachi..............7, 12, 14
WarriorMonk........7, 12, 14
Arquebusier.........7, 12, 12
Musketeer...........7, 12, 12
CavalryArchers.....8, 20, 22
HeavyCavalry.......8, 20, 22
YariCavalry.........10, 24, 26
Modifying the exe wouldn't be allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobunaga
Would you guys consider making a mod for MTW2? That would be awesome!
Unlikely (If I share similar feeling with those who made SamWars mod).
The M2:TW engine (which is descendant of R:TW engine) is considered "broken" for multiplayers. To cite a few:
- Instability. M:TW/vi engine is rock solid, M2:TW engine is proned to drops (guessing: M2:TW is still hooked to Gamespy server for some reason after game started, while M:TW engine disengaged from Gamespy.)
- Since S:TW, we could play 4x4, at 16x60 men per army. That's about 7500 to 8000 men on the battle field. R:TW, R:TW/BI, M2:TW, M2:TW/K would choke on such scale. Lags come from various sources, but in M2:TW engine, a big component of lag is the animation (which in theory should not affect multiplayer in such extend). Thus multiplayers in the later engine is limited to either setting the unit to small, or limit the number of units (playing lower florins), or having only 2x2 or 3x3. This reduces the feel of clashing of armies.
- Hidden bonus/penalty, hidden stats (or at least the perception of a hidden code somewhere). This wouldn't be an obstacle since you could come up with your new stats in the new mod. However, it makes balancing a guess work.
Annie
ps.: looks like I could be very wrong about the porting...
when r u guys playing?
Hi Nobunaga
Sunday evenings from 19.00 hours GMT onwards for about five hours playing time.
Depends on how long people have time to play.
So, on a whim I decided I was going to further my knowledge on Date Masamune for a forum-based sim RPG that I participate in. Down in his Masamune in Popular Culture section, this mod was mentioned, and history (as far as my computer harddrive is concerned) was made :2thumbsup:
I love you guys for making this for me. I realize that you might have thought you were doing it for fun, but really, it was only for my personal enjoyment, and you're awesome for thinking of me :-P Playing as one of the non-main clans has been one of the most fun challenges I've had in a while.
I've got some techie questions, though, that I haven't quite figured out. Like, why does it crash semi-randomly? I've figured out that I can't load autosaves or else it'll crash, and I have to go to the main Escape menu to Resume Game (i.e. if I press Resume Game from the Save Game menu, it also crashes). Occasionally, though, it'll just CTD on me for apparently no reason. Hardware-wise, I'm fine. Not sure if it's just Vista being a prick (90% probability), or I just have some settings not properly adjusted :embarassed: Either way, it doesn't happen exceptionally often, so thus far it's alright.
I'm still getting Spare Hero Slots as generals. Mind you, they're usually pretty good generals, lol, but still. Is there any way I can edit those out somehow without screwing up the game?
I've also noticed from time to time, and seemingly at random, a name will be replaced by some sort of error message? It's odd, and I haven't gotten enough of them to tell what might be doing it yet, so I'm at a loss.
Aside from those incredibly minor quibbles, I love this mod, and therefore vicariously all who participated in its creation. :beam:
Oh, on a side note, I found installation an absolute breeze :beam:
Alright, found out what the error was that I remembered seeing. It was on the Infamous Teahouse, and it was regarding the Geisha. The error read this:
( !!! STW_Geisha_Plural !!! ) Could Not Translate..
Also, had a question about generals? I realize that the names are just randomly assigned when the unit is produced (I've got two Date Masamune's running around, and three Honda Tadakatsu's, one of whom is actually a three-star admiral, which is pretty slick :-D ), but it seems that when a general dies of old age, all of his stats get transferred to his second-in-command? Why is that?
I think the large number of clans does add to the replayability. So far I've played Takeda, Oda, Ashikaga and Shimazu campaigns on normal difficulty. They were all very interesting. I think I only won one of them. I use the modified province incomes for better campaign playbalance. The kensai is working better with the reduced combat stats I suggested. Perhaps the anti-cav bonus of spears should be reduced in SP back to original STW levels. I don't think we can do that in MP, but the AI isn't as good as a human player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal Kong
It's most likely a video driver issue related to Vista, although, we know that Nvidia GF8000 series cards don't work with MTW/VI. I use Windows XP SP2 with an ATI Raedon 9800 Pro and older Catalyst 4.6 video driver. The game doesn't crash, and I've played it a lot. Autosaves work for me. There is a know problem with reloading saves that were made between battles at the reenforcement screen. That feature doesn't always work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal Kong
Those are names that haven't been filled in yet. Barocca works on that. If you have any suggestions for historical names you could post them for barocca.Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal Kong
That may be because the geisha was removed from the game. It's an overpowering strategic unit. Again, I would let barocca take care of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal Kong
I'm glad you like it. I'm still working on improving the playbalance of castle battles. The AI is a lot less adept at attacking a castle than is a human player, so this makes playbalancing castle battles in SP problematic. I found something tonight which will make the castles work better. Also, the gate is weaker than the walls which the human player knows, but the AI doesn't know. The AI is at a disadvantage because it tries to break the walls while the player gets an advantage by going for the gate. To balance this, I'm going to have to make the gate and walls have the same strength. I'm also going to have to change the castle interiors because the AI pathfinding is really poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal Kong
That's because you don't have the -green_generals switch in your shortcut. Right click the shortcut to the game and select "properties". On the target line, these are the arguments I use:Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal Kong
"C:\Program Files\Total War\Samurai 8\Medieval_TW.EXE" -strictserver -green_generals -ian -loyalty:180
Does this mod have new units or just STW units?
Hi Xehh II,Quote:
Originally Posted by Xehh II
this mod has all the Shogun units, no Mongols yet.
The only additional unit is the Hatamoto. You couldn't build those in STW, you got them automatically as bodyguard for your daimyo.
We have thought about adding additional units and the Mongol campaign, but we didn't have enough time yet. There's also the problem of playbalance which makes introducing new units difficult. Then there's the historical limit, the main weapons and unit types are already being used in the game. We don't want to use any fantasy units.
Here's more info on the units:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=69084
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73970
Here's the discussion on additional units:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=83517
R'as
Cool, I love and still regularly play Shogun so I'm going to give this mod a try.