Quote:
Originally Posted by Angadil
Heh, I think I like Parni/Aparni. Pahlav is a close second, though, my doubts about it arising exactly from the same facts you mentioned: its not strictly Parthian by its association with Sassanid Persia.
Well the association of Sassanid Persia is of a later age when Parthian accomplishments were celebrated in disguise by Ferdowsi. The term 'Pahlavi' is a linguistic term and the Parthians called themselves
pahlavans or `heroes'. The term 'Pahlav' or 'Pahlava' is one I wouldn't mind.
Parni or Aparni is IMO a very poor description of the faction. They are far more than a nomadic tribe and I think that 'Pahlav' or 'Pahlava' best suggests this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wizard
IIRC, Pahlavi was the official tongue of the late Parthian court after the Persian revival of the later 1st to the 3rd century AD, and of the Sassanids, where it also became the language of the people of the heartland of Sassanid Persia.
But didn't the Parthians speak another language at first, other than Skythian? Methinks it was Avestan...
Also, since Pahlavi was the courtly language, we need to choose the name in regard of either the people or the rulers of the empire. That is a hard choice, and I personally haven't decided yet. I'll think about it
~Wiz
Avestan is likely the origin of the Northwestern dialect that Parthian was a part of.
The Parni/Aparnin were members of the Dahae Scyth confederacy and likely spoke the Scythian language or a variant of it. Scythian is a Northeastern dialect of East Iranian as are Bactrian, Sogdian and Sarmatian.
Parthian is a Northwestern dialect of West Iranian most closely related to the Kurdish dialects Sorani, and Kurmanjii and according to Dr. Kaveh Farrokh Mazandarani and Gilani are variations of Pahalvi.
I do not think we need to choose between the people and rulers as they are all Iranian languages and the Parthian language itself is related to Median, Kurd, Mazanderani, Parsi and the Balochi languages. These are all of the Northwestern branch of west Iranian.
The Southwestern or Persid group was spoken by the Sassanid Persians and called Pahlavi. This is descended from Old Persian. The word originally refered to the language spoken by the Parthians (Northwestern) , and later came to be applied to the script used to write Middle Persian (Southwestern).
The Middle Persian Pahlavi script was derived from Aramaic but is not the same as Parthian or Arsacid Pahlavi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Hmm.
For Parthians I'd have to go with Parni, or Aparni. I don't really like the idea of them using a Persian term, since they were never really considered Persians.
Really? Cause even though they might have spoken Persian, they certaintly get along with the Persian people. That said, you all know more about the language more than I do. It's just that I really don't want them to be Persian wanna bes like in Vanilla, and by using Persian would suggest they were a far more direct descendent of the Arachemids than they actually were.
Pahlavi was a Parthian term
stolen by the Sassanids.
BTW neither the Parthians NOR the Sassanids were descendentsof the Achaemenid Persians. The Sassanids were heavily influenced by the Aramaic cultures of mesopotamia. The Parthians were more influenced by the north Iranian and nomadic groups.
Pahlava!