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I can well imagine so given that, after the initial flurry of excitement following the discovery of those text files, so many brick walls were encountered. Pity the latest so-called 'patch' (more an 'in-crowd' mod) didn't address any of the many requests from the Editing and SP fraternity...
Hmmm how can l put this. Shogun is a very hard game to mod on. This is not quake or unreal. Anyway there is only a map designer so you cna only have new maps. There are some mods out.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html
We need someone smart to do it with lots of time on their hands. Any voluntiers?
Well, looks like now may be a good time introduce myself.
This forum was recommended to me based on some posts I made in the totalwar.com forums. I came here and looked around, but it seemed people were only interested in map editing, so I kept a quiet.
If people are looking for some more in-depth mods, I would like to work on them. I am great with file-formats, etc... but not a very good idea man with this stuff. I will vounteer my skills if I can get some suggestions. For instance, the post in the totalwar.com forum was actually just about creating your own banners.
For any graphics mods, It would be helpful to have someone with artistic abilities help me out. I can do the techie stuff, but I can barely draw a stick figure.
So...pipe up with some wishes and I will look into them.
Scott McDonnell
Konnichiwa,
I don't agree. Many files in STW WE/MI are simple open txt files, to some extent this was aslso true for the original STW (Custom Historical Battles, I strongly recommend you to try out Kasins Sekigahara, http://www.totalwar.org/maps/demoedit.shtml).
In WE/MI also other files are open for edit: TroopStats.txt, Projectiles.txt (describes Unitbehavior, http://www.totalwar.org/maps/xmods.shtml), campmap/startpos allows Custom Full campaigns, try Zen-Blades Nobunagas Dilemma, Terazawas GempeiWar http://www.totalwar.org/maps/xmods.shtml, Historical Campaigns (none made yet), edit the behavior of AI (Anti-units.txt, unit-choice.txt etc), it seems Doc is working on this.
It isn't really documented, but it's very nice to figure things out yourselves, Full Campaigns can be easily made by Hecoses easy to use Tool CampaignEditor (2nd version)http://www.totalwar.org/maps/xmods.shtml, Baroccas campaign offers a very nice custom menu which can be reused for your own campaign (thank you very much TNG).
RSW has made a bifreader, so we can finally view those BIF files, someone of the skilled programmers at the Dojo is working on a BIF editor.
But I also agree, the number of tools and documentation shipped with the game is a bit limited. There are for example LBM files that become unusable when edited in a straight paintapp (I tried some rare ones, but none could save it in the proper format).
We can't edit unitcosts, or any of the special bonusses given to units on the field, we can't add our own bonusses.
I really hope MTW will offer more editors/possibilities and documentation to change the visuals and behavior of units, armies and AI.
STW:TW was the first (in this size) of it's genre. It is a good game. I think the developers have done their very best to add modding options to this game and even more to its successor, I think the initial design just didn't allow to add (much) more. We can cry about what we don't have, or use those things we do have (there's much more than just mapmaking).
The custom files we do have, are really worth a try, and the org has enough space available to host many more.
A good way to start (ihmo) is by making a custom Historical battle. Battle/Batinit/Historical Battles. Study how the default battles are made, and implement your own ideas in a new one (there are also Guides available for this http://www.totalwar.org/maps/demoedit.shtml kawanaka.zip). Fully fictional battles are fine. Or download Hecoses CampaignEditor and make your own campaign.
Have fun
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
well done scott , u found your way up here. i think ur a bit late for shog1 and mi but plz return with enuf time for twm
we have graph designers amongst us so i hope we see u by then. dont forget us http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Konnichiwa ScottMcDonnell san,
You are certainly not too late for MI. Please forgive me for forgetting to wish you welcome.
There's still work to be done. The LBM files for example can't be edited, they are in a special slimmed down format. In the folder textures/men is a file called Fog.LBM. The 'pictures' in this file are used to compose the cards you see when you are in the battlefield. Many people feel the New Naginata is less than the old. We would love to change these pictures, unfortunately no paintapplication seems to be able to save the file in the proper LBM format.
It would also be very nice to change the graphics used for the animations of the different units (located in the same directory in subfolders).
And the BIFeditor is not ready yet.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Hmmm..so you are right. I just assumed they were regular ol' LBMs. No worries...this'll be my first project : )
The LBM files in Total War are PackBits compressed. This was the original compression format used by Deluxe Paint by Electronic Arts. The IFF/LBM format changed somewhat when it ported over to windows, however a version of DeluxePaint was made for DOS (Trying to find a link for download.)
Paintshop Pro uses Run-Length-Encoded compression instead of the PackBits.
Anyways...the quickie good news is that I found 1 program which does edit the LBM files properly....[Drum Roll Please...] http://w3.ensil.unilim.fr/~maritaud/sunset/grafx2.html
I tested it only on the Fog.lbm so far, just a quicktest by turning the yin-yang from black&white to Red&Black. Seemed to work flawlessly! : ) If anyone else tries this program and it doesn't work, please let us know.
I am currently looking into what's involved in making a paintshop pro plugin, since that is the most popular image editing program among modders.
Scott McDonnell - out
Domo arigato gozaimasu, I've downloaded it and will try it out.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Just a note. I think GFX2 saves only as IFF. IFF and LBM are the same thing. The IFF extension is used to indicate many different types of data (sound, etc...) and an LBM is an InterLeaved BitMap, which is the raster format stored in IFF.
In other words, when it saves out the IFF, just rename the extension to LBM.
I've downloaded the Adobe Photoshop plugin SDK and will be looking at it soon to attempt to make a plugin. My C++ skills are not great, but I might be able to handle it. Paintshop Pro works with photoshop plugins, so I can kill two birds here!
Scott
Konnichiwa,
GFX2 indeed saves the file in the proper LBM format. I made some 'changes' to the naginata unit, and it works. Thanks again ScottMcDonnell. I'm looking forward to your plugin.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
That's great. I wanted to find a program which would work for now, while I work on the plugin. Looks like I found it. If I find a link to deluxe paint, I will post that too (it's abandonware now).
The Plugin SDK has sample code for an import/export plugin called "simple format" so I think I will have most of the structure in place to snap my code into (when and IF I can write it.) That makes the learning curve a little slimmer, which gives me a bit more confidence...wish me luck. In the meantime, I will be looking into unit costs and training seasons (What's the consensus on this? Would it be considered cheating?) Expect the answers to that puzzle within the week.
The BIF format...ick...looks pretty ugly. I'll take a long hard look at them and see if I can get a bulb burning. Does anyone already know some parts of it to give me a head-start?
I looked at some of the files that I thought were 3D models. I have some pretty good thoughts on those, but I will save them until I research it better (I hate looking like a fool http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif)
Scott McDonnell
I've started work on deciphering the animations files. We now have a program to edit the graphics, but there are certain guidelines we must follow when editing or creating sprites. Each sprite map has a text file to go along with it. This text file defines the location and properties of each sprite in the sprite map.
Go to http://simstoolbox.home.attbi.com/shogun/animations.htm
to view my preliminary discoveries of this format. I don't have it all solved yet, and am interested in having others take a crack at it and see what they can come up with.
I am going to be putting a site together soon since all this information can get pretty big and pictures, etc. will be needed. So the above link is only temporary.
Scott
Konnichiwa,
If it means that in online games one pays 1 koku for a H9 Wmonk and the other pays the normal 550 koku for a H2 Wmonk: yes that is cheating. If it means that we can edit it and use it offline, or only online when all players get the same benefits/handicaps: it's not cheating.
RSW made a BIFREADER (http://www.totalwar.org/maps tools section). The BIFFiles used are not 'regular' BIFfiles (20/20 can't open it). The sourcecode in Delphi is also available (not for download yet). The Reader has very simple editcapabilities (not enough to make really new images).
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
glad ya showed up, scott. you've already discerned more about the sprites and .lbm's than anyone previously in here.
one conjecture on my part about the .bif's i've stated elsewhere but will state it again briefly here, is that i suspect they are how each sprite gets modded for each player's color and so on. the .lbm's are the base images upon which the .bif's then alter when you've picked which clan you're going to play. the bif's then alter the .lbms accordingly... at least, that's what i suspect. i'll be very interested to know if the bif's are using any header info or if they are just raw data files.
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Wow! Aren't we lucky to have someone like Scott around! So much progress is only a couple of days. Jeeze. Poor Matt, being away, tortured in Venezuela while all this interesting mod stuff is going on. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2
Before people take my page to be the defacto standard....If you look at other spritemap/text files you will see that they don't always follow the same pattern, and the text files aren't always in the same formatted lines. Hmmm...there must be something more to go along with this. Seems like it would have saved them a lot of work to standardize this stuff. But, then, maybe there is a method to the madness. Still working on it. Once we can figure out the standard we will see about making some sort of editor for them.
The text files for the weapons seem to store an offset (from the origin of the soldier model) and then perhaps rotation coordinates. This would allow the spears or swords, etc. to spin around while the soldier is carrying them. Still looking into this.
Tosa san...you keep referring to the xmods.html page, which does not exist. Am I missing something? I would really like to look at the BIFreader to see what's going on. Are we 100% sure that the BIFs are actually images?
The soldiers are most likely 3D cubes or 2 sided planes that are re-used for all soldiers on the playing field. So, the game is probably using a primitive command right in DirectX to create these models. Then they just pop the sprites onto them.
I mentioned that I would be putting a little site together soon. It will be found at http://netsamurai.home.attbi.com (nothing there right now, except a standard welcome page.)
Konnichiwa,
Last week I remade the filessection. All files are in the Files section now, also the Tools which can be used to submit your own files/work to Totalwar.org.
http://www.totalwar.org/maps
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
My Khans states that this ScottMagDonnell http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif)
deserves his own icon already... so who volunteers to make an appropiate icon?
Thanks, MagyarKhans!
I wanted to let you guys (or girls) know that I haven't given up on the hunt. I've just been working the last few days in the Real World. Will be back at it this weekend.
Scott McDonnell
Bump
Been spending the day learning the Delphi programming language, since the BIF reader source is in that language. Seems pretty easy to learn. Playing around with modifications to the program, like making it animate (page flipping) through the frames. Nothing real serious. I think I like Delphi enough to learn it well and write my own programs with it. I've just been looking for an excuse to learn it.
Anyways, no real progress. Just wondering if anyone else has made any...
Good tidings,
Scott
Sorry about my silence up to this point. I started working on a bif reader several months ago in c and got it semi-working before RSW showed me up by posting his fully working app. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I contacted him and we discussed his code and the bif format and I decided to modify his code to give the ability to change individual pixels (something he hadn't done originally due to memory considerations). That was also several months ago and before the pressures of real life (missed work deadlines, deaths in the family, and etc.) kept me from looking into it further.
Only a couple days ago I finished up the last of my old work projects and have started on the next ones. This transition period gives me a little flexibility in my schedule and I've spent the last couple of evenings tinkering with the bifreader source again. Besides RSW, CA, and some of the daimyo's sources I guess I would be the one to ask if you have any specific questions concerning the bif file format.
It sounds like you've got the source already but if you're interested, I can provide the same source with a few extra comments I've added as I've worked out RSW's layout over the past few days.
Tm
Any help whatsoever would be nice.
Is there any documentation on the format itself? Something listing the structures and such? I have been trying to gleen this RSW's source code, but being new to Delphi I don't fully understand the Mstream method. Having a nice document explaining what to look for would allow many people with different language experience to write editors.
I planned to put this document together myself once I have it cracked.
The format I would be looking for would be something like:
Header
Int16 //size of file
Int32 //number of colors
etc...
places where I can find offsets to tell me where the different pieces of data begin...
I think you know what I mean.
Quote Originally posted by ScottMcDonnell:
The LBM files in Total War are PackBits compressed. This was the original compression format used by Deluxe Paint by Electronic Arts. The IFF/LBM format changed somewhat when it ported over to windows, however a version of DeluxePaint was made for DOS (Trying to find a link for download.)
Paintshop Pro uses Run-Length-Encoded compression instead of the PackBits.
Anyways...the quickie good news is that I found 1 program which does edit the LBM files properly....[Drum Roll Please...] http://w3.ensil.unilim.fr/~maritaud/sunset/grafx2.html
I tested it only on the Fog.lbm so far, just a quicktest by turning the yin-yang from black&white to Red&Black. Seemed to work flawlessly! : ) If anyone else tries this program and it doesn't work, please let us know.
I am currently looking into what's involved in making a paintshop pro plugin, since that is the most popular image editing program among modders.
Scott McDonnell - out[/QUOTE]
1st off I would like to say all the links on this post are dead lol ...
2nd im looking to mod anything i can as far as multiplayer goes to help me I allready edited the sounds can be found here
** NEW BATTLE SOUNDS **
yes get your new battle sounds !
* changed the wavs for each movement attack/advance/run/charge
* uppped the volume of the sounds in table.cfg
* edited charge advance openfire and run ! in table.cfg
* and edited the range @ where you hear them from 4 to 90 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif in table.cfg
* you can hear the enemy attack/move/run/charge from really far away
http://shogunnewbie.tripod.com
3rd I was looking @ the files in shogun there a lot of " fog " files can I edtied to be clear transperaent I allready did this but it did not work just wanting to know is there anything but unit sprite and sounds i can edit
has real life stopped this oh-so-promising attempt in its tracks or is there still hope?