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Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
Hello people,
I was wondering if there were interested people that want to take place in a (hopefully) near time debate. I was looking at the social groups of teh org and I saw a Communist/Socialist group and a "Orgah Capitalist Lounge". It would bve agood idea for me if both grups got more people and they discussed how great yer ideology is. The Group owner should post in the Debate thread, and the other discusses and replies and so on.
Do you support the idea?
Caius
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
A debate would be interesting, although I think few people would identify with the purest forms of either ideology. Usually a combination is best, depending upon the specific circumstances of the country or region.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
Rhyfelwyr
A debate would be interesting, although I think few people would identify with the purest forms of either ideology. Usually a combination is best, depending upon the specific circumstances of the country or region.
that's technically true, since modern economies are quite different from the laissez-faire spirit of the 19th century. Modern socialists (they continue to exist for some reason) still call them capitalist though.
And according to most of them, the Soviet Union etc. weren't really socialist either. I suppose that socialism really is a utopia, existing only in the minds of people who post on the internet.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
Kralizec
that's technically true, since modern economies are quite different from the laissez-faire spirit of the 19th century. Modern socialists (they continue to exist for some reason) still call them capitalist though.
And according to most of them, the Soviet Union etc. weren't really socialist either. I suppose that socialism really is a utopia, existing only in the minds of people who post on the internet.
Actually, socialism was supposed to be transitory state, because real communism was supposed to be an utopia, kinda like Star Trek 23th century earth - there's no money and there's everything in abundance. All "communist" countries thought of themselves socialist (Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) because there was still a long way to go to reach that utopia that was pure communism...
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Actually, socialism was supposed to be transitory state
In Marx' theory about socialism, yes. Marx' vision of a communist society was more or less the same as that of anarchists - the key difference being that anarchists didn't see the need for a transitionary state.
Most self-described socialists in western Europe are just rebels without a clue though, who view Marx as something of an icon.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
If you could get any team of people to agree on a definition of their own ideology, then sure.. but otherwise...
I mean, some of the discussions we were having in the Socialist/Communist group were getting pretty heated because we could not agree on Authoritarian Socialism.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
Hooahguy
אני לא יודע
English only in the Backroom, please.
This is not, as Louis would contend, cultural fascism, but because moderators can't ensure that you are following the rules.
For example, I can try a translator which will tell me the above means "I don't know". But maybe the translator doesn't know? More to the point, why am I wasting my Sunday morning trying to figure out what you meant? :wink:
Thank you kindly
:bow:
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
CountArach
I mean, some of the discussions we were having in the Socialist/Communist group were getting pretty heated because we could not agree on Authoritarian Socialism.
I don't think they got heated (example?), and if you are reffering to my comments on imperialism being useful, I regret those.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
I don't like discussing how "great my ideology is".
I much prefer to discuss of much yours stink ~;)
Besides, my ideology is my own. It's not shared with anyone else. It's not written down in any book, and changes almost constantly. I'm a socialist, but since socialism isn't a religion set in stone, trying to agree with others what socialism really is, is futile.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
Someone PM Jag. That's one team dealt with. :thumbsup:
~:smoking:
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
rory_20_uk
Someone PM Jag. That's one team dealt with. :thumbsup:
~:smoking:
And GawainOfOrkney in opposition. We could replay 2005 & 2006, LOL.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
Banquo's Ghost
English only in the Backroom, please.
This is not, as Louis would contend, cultural fascism, but because moderators can't ensure that you are following the rules.
For example, I can try a translator which will tell me the above means "I don't know". But maybe the translator doesn't know? More to the point, why am I wasting my Sunday morning trying to figure out what you meant? :wink:
Thank you kindly
:bow:
oops. sorry. forgot i was typing in hebrew.
(on an israeli forum right before i posted here. :embarassed:)
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
I'd take either side in this debate.
Whichever team wants me can have me.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
Sarmatian
Actually, socialism was supposed to be transitory state, because real communism was supposed to be an utopia, kinda like Star Trek 23th century earth - there's no money and there's everything in abundance. All "communist" countries thought of themselves socialist (Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) because there was still a long way to go to reach that utopia that was pure communism...
But communism also had all that stuff about abolishing the state. Something Star Trek has in abundance.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
Askthepizzaguy
I'd take either side in this debate.
Whichever team wants me can have me.
Follow your ideas and ideals.
I suggest people who want to take place that join the groups that will participate.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
Arguing for the capitalism side will be tougher, methinks. I'll do my best.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
What exactly is the debate topic? Traditionally there is usually a proposition or statement that needs to be argued over, right?
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
You won't be alone, everyone should help eachother to give the best ideas evar to make a good statement.
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What exactly is the debate topic? Traditionally there is usually a proposition or statement that needs to be argued over, right?
There could be a question that opens the debate. Both sides give an opening statement about what is the main idea regarding the question. That is the way it could start.
The topic should focus every aspect of the ideologies. Of course, there won't be "pure ideologies", there are different oppinions about one ideology.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
It would be too easy and tempting to argue for communism at this point. Capitalism is getting a bad rap.
I think it would be a challenge for me to argue the capitalism side, knowing it's pitfalls myself. However, I like a challenge!
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
Ok, first of all, let me just say that if there were such a debate, there would first need to be an agreement on terminology, or it would go nowhere. Second of all, it would need to be kept down to a small number of participants so as not to get too hectic and impossible to navigate or reply too. If other members wanted to make comments, they could PM participants about it. Thirdly let me say that if you are willing to wait a month or so till I am back in the states, I would be willing to participate in such a debate. ~;) In the meantime though, I think the argument should be kept out of the social groups. Sorry for taking so long Caius, I was on holiday to Pecs over the weekend. (went to some good wine tastings :yes:)
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
I'd suggest:
Each team has a spokesperson, and each team takes turns.
Someone should moderate it, someone who isn't very political but enjoys watching a debate and can enforce the debate rules fairly.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Each team has a spokesperson, and each team takes turns.
I thought I said that, but I didn't express the idea well.
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Sorry for taking so long Caius
The idea started yesterday.
BTW, I proposed the social group ideas because there you can post and others can see it, it is way better than the PM system because if one replies and forget one, there will be a huge disorganization, and therefore, the spokesman will have to take a lot of time to get all the replies. Maybe creating other Social group?
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
we could do this over skype, and record it maybe?
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
Che Roriniho
we could do this over skype, and record it maybe?
That would not reflect on the issues so much as the debater's oratory skills. It would be better to have a format where people could spend time researching and structuring their arguments and considering and debunking their opponents. It would be a lot fuller.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
Just Vuk Again
That would not reflect on the issues so much as the debater's oratory skills. It would be better to have a format where people could spend time researching and structuring their arguments and considering and debunking their opponents. It would be a lot fuller.
No debate should ever take place outside the written form, preferably with an editor.
TV debates are a nightmare. I'm proud to say that I haven't watched a single one of them since the early autumn of 2005.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Originally Posted by
HoreTore
No debate should ever take place outside the written form, preferably with an editor.
TV debates are a nightmare. I'm proud to say that I haven't watched a single one of them since the early autumn of 2005.
Oh heck yeah.
A debate, if it is to contain thoughts, must be more than shouting and grandstanding and listening to oneself talk.
Written only! It's the only way to get things done.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Someone PM Jag. That's one team dealt with.
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Originally Posted by
KukriKhan
And GawainOfOrkney in opposition. We could replay 2005 & 2006, LOL.
HA, those were the times, me and Gawain pretty much turned every thread into a capitalism vs communism debate! :) I miss that guy, hope he is all good.
Anyway, you would have to define what exactly the 'teams' were arguing about.
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Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate
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Anyway, you would have to define what exactly the 'teams' were arguing about.
I'd suggest the economy and social aspects of both ideologies, but you guys can choose one also ;)