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Thread: Circassians

  1. #31

    Default Re: Circassians

    For more images:

    http://www.kafkasya.net/portal/index...galid=9&area=1

    just click on the small pictures on the left.

  2. #32
    Earl Of Warwick/Wannabe Tuareg Member beauchamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Circassians

    Toll! He looks like a Boyar!


    Ya Misr!

  3. #33

    Default Re: Circassians

    Quote Originally Posted by beauchamp
    Toll! He looks like a Boyar!
    Ahm yes thats what I ment of course!


  4. #34
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Circassians

    Good images, but could you choose the most realistic to use ?

  5. #35

    Default Re: Circassians

    Okay give me a second... Home work and stuff. I know I slowed down but dont worry I am still happy to help out just getting more busy lately!

  6. #36

    Default Re: Circassians









    I find these acceptable as realistic (1600-1700)

    Circassian Armor was quite famous across Russia and Middle East, many Circassian master smiths were invited by Russian Czar and princes to make their personal Armors.

    Note: Mostly applies to Noble Circassians though.

    I am thinking of adding maybe something like Circassian Noble Cavalry...
    Noble Class was higher in number than I expected.

    Salutes More working coming...


    too bad that there are so few info for 1480s-1500s .

  7. #37
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Circassians

    .
    Hey there Mouzafphaerre -Victorian- ? Quite hard to spell that.
    Victorious. Yeah, a bastardized spelling indeed.
    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  8. #38

    Default Re: Circassians

    And for Inal the Great the I think he should be already a young man at 1580.

    Earlier



    --------------------------------------
    Prince Temriuk:

    Birth Date: 1530 (?)

    He was a very powerful prince who united almost all of Circassia under his rule with the assistance of Russia (and doing so also set the stage for Russo-Circassian war centuries after his death). He was aware of the need for Unity in Circassia and waged for against under Circassian Princes during 1560s and with the assistance from Russia he manage to win.

    He was not as succesful as Inal (his grandfather ?). But still can be considered a good leader in 1570 he lost a battle against Tatar Khan: Shah-Abbas-Girai. The defeat damaged Circassians temporary and some of them were forced to convert to Islam and south of the Kuban river.

    command 3
    piety 1
    acumen 4
    loyalty 6
    dread 1

    No portrait sorry. (Its hard to find)

  9. #39
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Circassians

    For now Circassia will be added in late ( after 1648) only, so if you can add something for this period - heroes and especially office titles - I will be greateful.

    In MTW 2 release of PMTW CIrcassians will replace Georgians.

    The heroes you presented for now will be added as rebel leaders in the main Circassian province - I mean MTW edition.
    They should make the province rather hard to conquer.

    Regards Cegorach

  10. #40

    Default Re: Circassians

    Prince Idar

    Birth Year: 1500 (?)

    After the short civil war that began soon after Inal the Great's death, he became the ruler prince of Circassia. Though he was perhaps not a great organizer since there was quite a bit of Chaos in Circassian during his rule.


    command 3
    piety 1
    acumen 2
    loyalty 7
    dread 1

    Again for now no portrait...

  11. #41

    Default Re: Circassians

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach1
    For now Circassia will be added in late ( after 1648) only, so if you can add something for this period - heroes and especially office titles - I will be greateful.

    In MTW 2 release of PMTW CIrcassians will replace Georgians.

    The heroes you presented for now will be added as rebel leaders in the main Circassian province - I mean MTW edition.
    They should make the province rather hard to conquer.

    Regards Cegorach
    Sorry ignore the last post! Did not see this!

  12. #42

    Default Re: Circassians

    Alright Alright 1648-1700 hmm...

    I have dedicated my next 48 hours to reading, helping this project, playing football and cleaning up my room.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Circassians

    Ok I think I will need a serious Russian or Circassian historian's help on this, (I am going to try to e-mail a few.

    So far there seems to be a century gap in History jumps straight: 1500s-1700.

    Please be patient :P doing my best

  14. #44

    Default Re: Circassians

    Okay found 2 leaders but both start to exist very late in the game.


    Jabağı:
    Born in 1684!! But Circassians were fighting by age 13-14 still historically active only for a few years in the game (1696-1700).


    Kazanuko Jabağı Might be too late or maybe we can change the birth year sacrificing realism for the sake of gameplay.


    The other leader was born in 1670s or maybe even 1660s.


    Kaytouko Aslan Beg
    -1685-1700-

    Looking for more infos on these two and for at least 5-6 more Circassian leaders.

    Thank you for your patience :)

  15. #45

    Default Re: Circassians

    Aslan Girey for info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatuqwai but I am just going to write names here for now infos and stats coming soon...

  16. #46

    Default Re: Circassians

    Aslan Girey

    Probably born in 1600s or 1590s but still active by 1648.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Circassians

    Kazanuko Aslan Jabagh or just Kazanuko Jabagh (Eng. Alpahabet):

    He was more of a thinker than a warrior he try to create a more united Circassia.
    As far a I learned merciful, and very smart.

    Birth year 1680: If you can make it other wise 1684.

    Acumen 6
    Piety 2
    Command 2 (not a great general I am guessing.)
    loyalty 7
    dread 0 (I can put 0 right?)

    There is a book writen on him but unfortunetly I cant get my hands on it!


    -----------

    Kaytouko Aslan Beg

    A powerfull leader:

    Hmm this guy was definetly somewhat warlike he waged war against any Circassian tribe who did not gave him tribute and in his time the peace treaty (alliance?) was canceled with Russia.

    Acumen 3
    Piety 1
    Command 6 (undefeated)
    Loyalty 7 (He was also thinking about Circassia though)
    dread 5


    Birth Year 1660s

  18. #48

    Default Re: Circassians

    Sorry no edit: Kazanuko Aslan Beg should have a better command I was mistaken, but he stayed in the back gorund.

    Make it -Command: 4- pls.

    Pshi Kurghoko (Means Prince Kurghoko)

    He was the supperior commander of Kaytuko Aslan Beg, his greatest challenge was a battle against a huge tatar army which he did not thought he can win but after Kaytuko Beg encouraged him to fight and they made a plan together and crushed the Tatar army.

    He was peaceful and wise, not so energic I think.

    Command 4
    Acument 5
    Piety 1
    Loyalty 6
    Dread 0 not very scarry

    he died after this victory though.

    Birth year 1630s (?)

    ----------

    Pshi Bekmırza

    This guy is quite lame.
    I am thinking stats should be around:

    Command 2
    Acument 1
    Piety 1
    Loyalty 1
    Dread 0

    He was at first ranked at the same level with his younger brother Kazanuko but soon his lamentations caused him to lose respect and sempathy along his common people and important individuals. He tried to make Tatars attack Caucasus again but failed. Later he died at a very early age. (total idiot!)

    some time
    late 1670- early 1680 I think (?)
    -----Birth year

  19. #49

    Default Re: Circassians

    CORECTION ------


    Actually Bekmirza seems like the brother of the father of Kazanuko with the same name!!!!


    So he must have born in 1650s-1660s.

    Historicaly I dont think you can find the exact years.

    Plus I am not even looking for portraits its just imposible to find.

    So

    Here is Pshi Kazanuko father of Kazanuko Aslan Beg

    Acumen: 6 (only drawback he got is not very energetic)
    Command: 3
    Piety: 1
    Dread 1
    Loyalty: 6

  20. #50

    Default Re: Circassians

    PROGRESS REPORT


    Hey Guys

    Alright finaly Note for now I think enough leaders next I am going to concentrate on Offices like you asked me to.

    I AM GOING TO PUT ALL THE LEADERS AND STATS IN ONE POST SOON!

    Sorry about it there is no edit and I realized I keep making mistakes I just have t o gather them all in one page...

    Thank you...

  21. #51
    Member Member Radier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Circassians

    Glad that you help this mod Inal.
    Keep this up...

    Cheers!
    I support the Pike and Musket:Total War



    Also Europa Barbarorum supporter!

  22. #52

    Default Re: Circassians

    Thank you!!

    I am very glad to be here:
    Finally some real interest to my ideas in a mod project!

    (Before I was helping with " Victoria:An Empire Under the Sun " but later stopped as there was no real interest)

    Anyway to be continued...

  23. #53

    Default Re: Circassians

    Just so you guys know my computer is hacked thats why I will be away for a while in the mean time:

    Office Title: Thamade (Mean Elder but had a special meanin for Circassians)

    I will get back at this as quick as posible I am posibly thing of adding around 4 - 5 titles.

    As Infantry I think Abreks always fought mounted so it should be Peasant warriors (Going to post Circassian name) not Abreks sorry about it but like I said I am going to organize this as soon as my pc is mentally stable again!!

    Cya guys!






    This is from a library pc on my university btw ...

  24. #54

    Default Re: Circassians

    Okay I am installing the Medieval again hopefully today I will post a one long page and for a while I will be done...

    YES I FIXED MY PC!!! DOWN WITH SERVICE CENTERS!!

  25. #55
    Earl Of Warwick/Wannabe Tuareg Member beauchamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Circassians

    What sites did you use for the circassian units? I was doing some reasearch on Safavid military and I read that many of the Gulams were of Circassian origin. Their might be a similiary or something of relation between the two.


    Ya Misr!

  26. #56

    Default Re: Circassians

    Well actually it was also the case in Ottoman Sultans or Mamluks (which finally they became the ruling class). But as far as I know almost always most of the Circassian traditions are lost, only a few things left remains, on looks Circassians are really pale compared to other soldiers they fought with. (no racism intended)

    Watch Lawrence of Arabia:

    Turkish Pasha to Lawrence: "Your skin is so pale are you a Circassian?"

    Weapons and armors are also usually local, for a good reasons... But hey since you asked I will do a small research on Safavid Circassians wont take long I have a friend for Iran next door! :)

  27. #57

    Default Re: Circassians

    Okay basicly there were Circassians slave warriors in Safavid Empire but they were not as numerous as in Mamluks, as I guest their equipment is local of the country they are serving in.

    I think:
    -=-=-=--
    You should just search for Ghulams they were totaly different than Circassians in
    homeland.
    -=-=-=--=-


    They are from Circassian slave caste, but are also carefully chosen from a group that has already lived very hard lives.

    Because of the Martial family relations they more easily accept separation and adapt to their new environment. Which means when they arrived they quickly became loyal soldiers.

    They must have been elite units (no nationalism is intended: )

    Russia: Circassian Cossack cavalry similiar to Polish system.

    Turkey: Special Circassian Cavalry units (my great grandfather was one :D) +Circassian heavy Cavalry from Mamluk earlier.

    Poland : Cossack Cavalry divisions made of Circassians and lead by Circassian Princes.
    Egypt: Circassian Mamluks
    ...

    Though there were also rare cases when they were cheap irregular fighting men: Russo-Turkish war of 1877-78 but its quite irrelevant.

  28. #58

    Default Re: Circassians

    Circassia


    Units


    Adiga Dzhigit: Regular Circassian cavalry, usually good quality.
    Armed with bow, some armour, small shield (in melee fights), and a Sword.

    Abrek Dzhigit: Elite cavalry unit of top quality.
    Similar equipment with Adiga Dzhigit but better armour and arrow.

    Werq Dzhigit: Again similar Equipment but late in the game they should have firearms.
    Better quality equipment in general.

    Tiley: Young warriors who are of superb skill. Usually individual warriors though.
    Always dressed in red, no ranged weapons or shield but good armour.


    Lhxwqwel Zevako:
    Peasant warriors, infantry class, poor quality but should not be as bad as regular peasants and should have a poor morale.
    Equipment similar but no horses; Bows, shields, poor quality armour.




    Office Tittles


    Shupashe: Means Cavalry Commander.
    Thamade: Respected old person, elder.
    Efendi: Religious leader who studied Islam in Ottoman or Tatar lands.
    Pschishxwe: “Princes of Princes”, “Great Prince”. Similar to “King”.


    Stats:

    Shupashe: +2 Command when commanding all horse armies.
    Activation building: Stable

    Thamade: +2 Acumen and + 1 Command

    Efendi: +2 Piety
    Activation Building: Mosque

    Pschishxwe: +2 Command +1 Acumen +1 Dread

    Leaders

    Kaytuko Aslan Beg: Warlike and Powerful. Does not show much mercy to his enemies.

    Acumen 4
    Piety 1
    Command 6 (undefeated)
    Loyalty 7 (Waged war for a stronger and more united Circassia)
    dread 5


    Birth Year 1670s


    Pshi Bekmirza:

    This guy is quite lame…
    I am thinking stats should be around:

    Command 2
    Acumen 1
    Piety 1
    Loyalty 1
    Dread 0

    He had as much respect as his brother Pshi Kaytuko, but soon his lamentations and bad attitude lost him popularity among his people. Many influential Circassians left him alone. He than went to Tatars and tried to make them invade Circassia but he failed even in this and soon after he died at an early age.

    Birth Year: 1650s


    Pshi Kurghoko

    He was the superior commander of Pshi Kaytuko, his greatest challenge was a battle against a huge Tatar army which he did not thought he couldn’t win but after Pshi Kaytuko encouraged him to fight and they made a plan together and crushed the Tatar army.
    He was peaceful and wise, not so energetic I think.

    Command 4
    Acumen 5
    Piety 1
    Loyalty 6
    Dread 1

    He died after this victory though.

    Birth year: 1630s

    Pshi Kaytuko
    Father of Kaytuko Aslan Beg. As a leader he was also quite successful.

    Acumen: 6
    Command: 5 (also undefeated like his son but he made the plans more than the leading)
    Piety: 2
    Dread 2
    Loyalty: 7

    Birth Year: 1640s


    Circassia Region


    Please look at the map I posted earlier; in 1648 Abkhazia is under Ottoman control. Russian invasions and raids are mostly unsuccessful during this time. Tatars threat is somewhat under control.

    Chantgir” is the capital in central Circassia.
    Another major city is “Sochi” in south Circassian coast.

    The rest are small villages or towns usually…

    Landscape:
    A lot of forest, hills, rivers and mountains… Great for defence!


    Diplomacy:


    Neutral with all

  29. #59
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Circassians

    Very good descriptions. Thanks to you Circassia will be in the mod at all and will be well prepared as well. I will process the data and will tell you if I need more.

    Regards Cegorach

  30. #60
    Member Member Radier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Circassians

    Well done job Inal.
    I support the Pike and Musket:Total War



    Also Europa Barbarorum supporter!

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