Mafia IV: Night of the Living Mafia [Concluded]

[Silver Rusher]

Congrats on the 1,100 GH.

As for my dead-activity, I will refrain from posting my suspicions until I have had a chance to observe the behavior of the players in the game. But I will say one thing, and that is that Sasaki has made very good reasoning in his last post.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Here's one for you, poopy-heads, now that I have been removed for the game in the FIRST ROUND I will be sooo, sooo mad that I will be dead-posting even more cunningly than ever.

That's fine and dandy, but realize none of us are foolproof.

And it seems that Silver's killer didn't want his death to be professional - just to beat the crap out of Silver before killing him.

So far I agree with Sasaki about Drisos- though I am wary of following his lead.

CR

[Ignoramus]

Sasaki does make valid points; Drisos is following the pattern that we have seen in all of the mafia games.

Vote: Drisos

[King Henry V]

There does seem to be something fishy with Drisos, though knowing the villager's luck it won't be him.
Vote: Drisos.

[Avicenna]

Congrats on the 1,100 GH.

and on taking number 2 of the 2006'ers. You won't overtake me though! {evil cackle}

on the seeing of mafiosi: my point exactly. a mafioso slip-up, which hints as to the mafioso's identity. not experienced with writing own kills, and thus prone to making a mistake when doing the first one? or, a creative, sloppy artist type? These don't seem to common though, so I'll stick with the amateur mafia theory for now. Someone who's just 'made his bones' recently

[Byzantine Mercenary]

You make a good point Sasaki Kojiro

I vote for Drisos

[Ice]

Vote:Disco

It's on now disco.

[discovery1]

Vote: Ice


Our gods clearly favor the Chief with our recent victory over Michigan state, in football no less. Let us ensure that this is still the case later on with a sacrifice. And the gods love nothing better then the blood of our enermies.

[Myrddraal]

Hello all.

I'm not sure that Sasaki's analysis is entirely relevant. All the examples he posted were of people refering to game characters when they were that character, but the key thing here is that all of those characters (with the exception of GH) were villager team characters.

I'm not sure it's incriminating to mention the mafia, or else we're all guilty?

As for GH's comment, I really didn't see anything in that either (though apparently he did?) The rules were posted at the top of that thread, and I would certainly have suggested the possibility of a mafioso getting his pm in late (or purposefully not killing). I'd certainly be pissed if I was lynched for exploring all the possibilities.

I think the question is whether Drisos is likely to use such a bluff were he the mafia. Since I have no experience of previous games I'm not one to judge, but let's judge him on that basis rather than the simple fact that he posted about what the mafia might be doing

My 2 pence

However, atm I've got nothing better to go on, and each turn is one less turn in which we can lynch, so Vote:Drisos

[Sir Moody]

Then the villager pounced. He looped a chain of pure, ultra-dense osmium around Tib's neck, and pushed him into the pound. Tiberius desperately tried to get back on dry ground, but the osmium weighed him down so much that it was stupid to try. Still struggling, Tib managed to get a glimpse of his killer grinning evilly before the inky depths of the duck pond claimed him forever.

hmmm osmium is an odd choice here - yes its considered the heaviest metal which would lead us to believe we are looking for someone who knows chemistry except i found that out with a quick google so maybe we are looking for someone who from the first kill is trying to mislead us and make us look at people who fit a different profile

Now since i have only one kill to go by and this is my first time im probable wrong but this kind of mind set is VERY Machiavellian and in the last few mafias
Sasaki Kojiro has been very good at that kind of thing so ill go with him this round

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Abstain.

[Ignoramus]

You'll get Wrath of GH if you're not careful.

[GeneralHankerchief]

You'll get Wrath of GH if you're not careful.

If he posts, he's safe.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

While I believe Drisos is our best bet, and certainly that's the best (possibly only) evidence brought against someone on round one, I'm not liking the "I agree with Sasaki vote drisos" responses. Now obviously I think you should agree with me and we should lynch Drisos, but posting so little:

A. Is not in the towns benefit in the long term, we need more substance
B. Makes me look suspicious :p since this is what happened in the Godfather

This is what we need more of:

Hello all.

I'm not sure that Sasaki's analysis is entirely relevant. All the examples he posted were of people refering to game characters when they were that character, but the key thing here is that all of those characters (with the exception of GH) were villager team characters.

I'm not sure it's incriminating to mention the mafia, or else we're all guilty?

As for GH's comment, I really didn't see anything in that either (though apparently he did?) The rules were posted at the top of that thread, and I would certainly have suggested the possibility of a mafioso getting his pm in late (or purposefully not killing). I'd certainly be pissed if I was lynched for exploring all the possibilities.

I think the question is whether Drisos is likely to use such a bluff were he the mafia. Since I have no experience of previous games I'm not one to judge, but let's judge him on that basis rather than the simple fact that he posted about what the mafia might be doing

My 2 pence

However, atm I've got nothing better to go on, and each turn is one less turn in which we can lynch, so Vote:Drisos

I don't believe it makes a difference whether the character is town or mafia. The Dutch Guy, Ignoramus, and Reenk Roink examples show that characters who have extra knowledge of the game leave clues of that knowledge. Dutch guy is the doctor and suggests the possibility of a doctor etc. Thus, Drisos, knowing that his partner was late with the pm, might have been tempted to share this with the town (there is precedent as it were). The General Hankerchief quote is the mainstay of my case, as it is the same situation as the current one. Mafioso is annoyed at tardiness of fellow mafioso, suggests that one of the mafia was tardy with pm. That's enough to warrant suspicion.

In my experience the mafia don't bluff. It's too risky. Who are you more suspicious of, Drisos or Sir Moody? That should answer your question.

I'm not sure what you mean by "each turn is one less turn in which we can lynch". Yes, we have a finite number of lynch chances, and this is one. Therefore we wouldn't want to waste this lynch. This doesn't jive with your vote for Drisos, who you don't seem to think is guilty. Surely in that case we should search for an alternative?

Just to clarify: Never base your accusations on the fact that somebody was online and/or PMing before the kills were posted. There are a few reasons for this. One, I could have just got on and seen the PM. Two, they could have been PMing someone else. Three, I could have already received the PM, but at a time where it would be hard for me to post the kills so I put it off. Four, I could have received the PMs but purposely not posted the kills right away to throw you off (I have done this many times). Five, keep in mind that it takes me anywhere from 20-40 minutes to actually write the kills and post them. So if you see someone PMing right before the kills are posted, it’s actually a safe bet that they didn’t do it.

Yes I know. But you didn't post this at the beginning of this game or the last, and I believe you may have been anxious to get the game started and thus posted as soon as you got the kill from Masy. There was enough time in between.

It is weak, but that was the first suspicion to come to my mind, before I noticed Drisos's post. I'd like to see how Masy responds to this. Can you show that you didn't pm GeneralH, Masy?

[Csargo]

My vote goes with Sasaki he seems to be trying a little hard to put this on someone else which is suspicious to me.

[Myrddraal]

Surely in that case we should search for an alternative?

I agree, but on what basis? I can't think of any. The first few rounds of lynching are bound to be fairly random, and I'm unfortunately quite resigned to that having no past mafia experience to help me here.

I think it does make a difference on who's side the character is on. Those who have villager helpful roles may wish to hint at their role to imform their fellow villagers, but try to be as subtle as possible so as not to get killed immediately. The mafia know who the other mafia are and the thing at the top of their mind will be to prevent the others finding out.

At least Sir Moody is (pretending to/genuinely is?) trying to contribute. Having said that, for someone to try to exploit the villagers in such depth would be quite arrogant I think and quite unlikely. The same goes for the comments about Aggony Duck and Duck ponds and this being evidence for a framing of AD. Quite tenuous.

The ironic thing (stating the obvious) is that Sir Moody, Sasaki or even myself () could simply be trying to divert attention from something that's been said. Reminds me of the first blood test in the novelleta about the monsters.

Time to re-read the posts, I'll see if I can come up with something better

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Edited out

Hehhhhhh, that's interesting.

Why did you edit out your vote for me? Did you realize that would draw my attention to you and you might be exposed?

Also, why are you using invisible mode? I don't remember you using that in the past.

[Csargo]

Hehhhhhh, that's interesting.

Why did you edit out your vote for me? Did you realize that would draw my attention to you and you might be exposed?

Also, why are you using invisible mode? I don't remember you using that in the past.

I wanted to wait a little longer before I voiced my suspicions but obviously it's a little late now.

And as for the invisible mode I did that a couple of days ago for the fun of it. Pretty stupid on my part but I did it anyway. I'll put it back if you really want me too. :D

[Myrddraal]

Also, why are you using invisible mode? I don't remember you using that in the past.

I really don't think we should use mod privileges here (at least not publicly )

BTW, for the info of the general public, Sasaki is currently using invisible mode.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I agree, but on what basis? I can't think of any. The first few rounds of lynching are bound to be fairly random, and I'm unfortunately quite resigned to that having no past mafia experience to help me here.

I think it does make a difference on who's side the character is on. Those who have villager helpful roles may wish to hint at their role to imform their fellow villagers, but try to be as subtle as possible so as not to get killed immediately. The mafia know who the other mafia are and the thing at the top of their mind will be to prevent the others finding out.

At least Sir Moody is (pretending to/genuinely is?) trying to contribute. Having said that, for someone to try to exploit the villagers in such depth would be quite arrogant I think and quite unlikely. The same goes for the comments about Aggony Duck and Duck ponds and this being evidence for a framing of AD. Quite tenuous.

The ironic thing (stating the obvious) is that Sir Moody, Sasaki or even myself () could simply be trying to divert attention from something that's been said. Reminds me of the first blood test in the novelleta about the monsters.

Time to re-read the posts, I'll see if I can come up with something better

Haha, I mentioned Sir Moody as an example because he hadn't posted when I began to write my response. I meant, Drisos as mafia wouldn't bluff because he becomes suspect more than [insert name of player who hasn't posted at all].

I still think you're mistaken on the difference of town/mafia. The last thing either of them wants is to reveal their role. As soon as Ignoramus revealed himself he got killed. Same for the other detectives. The mafia are trying to eliminate all pro-town power roles. The only time a pro town player is likely to reveal themselves is when they are about to be lynched.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I really don't think we should use mod privileges here (at least not publicly )

BTW, for the info of the general public, Sasaki is currently using invisible mode.

oh I'm totally going to use mod privilages. Although you can tell anyway because they are posting even though the list says they aren't online :p

I'm in invisible mode because I had to have it on when hosting games otherwise I'd reveal info. Also, I don't want to pm GH asking him a question and have someone post here saying "AAAhhh, Sasaki was PM'ing GH he's Mafiaaaa!!11". :)



edit: and btw Csar, your "he's posting too much/being to defensive" logic hasn't served you well in the past, has it?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: Ice


Our gods clearly favor the Chief with our recent victory over Michigan state, in football no less. Let us ensure that this is still the case later on with a sacrifice. And the gods love nothing better then the blood of our enermies.

Vote:Disco

It's on now disco.

A goofy feud would be perfect cover for the mafia. Just sayin. I'd vote for you on that if you'd been chosen by a godfather, but the odds of you two coming up randomly are slim.

[Csargo]

oh I'm totally going to use mod privilages. Although you can tell anyway because they are posting even though the list says they aren't online :p

I'm in invisible mode because I had to have it on when hosting games otherwise I'd reveal info. Also, I don't want to pm GH asking him a question and have someone post here saying "AAAhhh, Sasaki was PM'ing GH he's Mafiaaaa!!11". :)



edit: and btw Csar, your "he's posting too much/being to defensive" logic hasn't served you well in the past, has it?

Interesting. True

Misunderstood what you said Sasaki.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Unless mods can see better, user profiles only say "Private Messaging."

But that said, it's totally unfair if you get to see who people are PMing.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Unless mods can see better, user profiles only say "Private Messaging."

But that said, it's totally unfair if you get to see who people are PMing.

Nope, the usually do say "private messaging" or "creating private message". They do however show "viewing private message:Sasaki" or "replying private message:Sasaki" (depending on how you do it). Doesn't everyone see that?

Obviously there's no way for the system to know who you are messaging if you typed the name in manually. I've never been able to tell who was who from this, I'd have to be checking who's online at just the right moment.

Also, I plan to push the postcount for this thread past 1,000.

We're already a quarter the size of the Godfather thread and it's only round 1. Woo!

[Myrddraal]

I still think you're mistaken on the difference of town/mafia. The last thing either of them wants is to reveal their role. As soon as Ignoramus revealed himself he got killed. Same for the other detectives. The mafia are trying to eliminate all pro-town power roles. The only time a pro town player is likely to reveal themselves is when they are about to be lynched.

Yers that true. However I'm just trying to think what I'd do with a villager helping role, what power does one vote carry. You can't persuade people of your oppinion by simply saying "I happen to know" or you'll be dead next turn. Dropping a couple of hints may lend weight to your oppinion, without you being killed till you've done the damage.

Anyway you have more experience of what actually happens, so I to you on this point.

Some questions to those of you who were involved in passed games:
What is this a reference to:

I'm the hottest mafia target aside from disco.

Not that it means anything since Tib is dead, just curious.

Hmm there are a couple of things I'd like to say about mafia posting behavior, but I'll wait a couple of rounds till we've got some more examples to analyse.

The choice of osmium does seem a little obvious...


EDIT: Mods can see who's using invisible mode. That's what I was refering to.

[Csargo]

Also, I plan to push the postcount for this thread past 1,000.

We're already a quarter the size of the Godfather thread and it's only round 1. Woo!

Sounds like fun I'm in.

[GeneralHankerchief]

All us mortals see is "Private Messaging."

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yers that true. However I'm just trying to think what I'd do with a villager helping role, what power does one vote carry. You can't persuade people of your oppinion by simply saying "I happen to know" or you'll be dead next turn. Dropping a couple of hints may lend weight to your oppinion, without you being killed till you've done the damage.

Anyway you have more experience of what actually happens, so I to you on this point.

Well with the doctor, it does neither you nor the village any good to know your role. With the detective hinting might be tempting, but it's a far smarter play to try and come up with an argument to protect or condemn someone without revealing yourself (though a clever mafia may notice even this).

Some questions to those of you who were involved in passed games:
What is this a reference to:

Not that it means anything since Tib is dead, just curious.

Hmm there are a couple of things I'd like to say about mafia posting behavior, but I'll wait a couple of rounds till we've got some more examples to analyse.

The choice of osmium does seem a little obvious...

I'm not sure what he meant by it myself. I suspect he was killed because of it...it's never a good idea to give the mafia a reason to kill you that can't possible point to anyone in particular.

Do we have any know Chemists?

Sounds like fun I'm in.

Not by spamming!



What I think we need to discuss is why the mafia chose to kill Silver and Tiberius? I have an explanation for tiberius but I can't think of one for Silver Rusher. Perhaps they questioned the randomness of GH's detective selection process and considered a kind of patronage?

Even if we can't learn much from this, questioning this each round will make the mafia think carefully about who they kill...and then perhaps even that can give us clues. The more the better.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

All us mortals see is "Private Messaging."

Ahhh, I didn't know that. I'll try to avoid the who's online feature then. Although I know sometimes I only see "viewing private message". Perhaps I only get the name if you follow the javascript? We should test it.