Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Vote: Abstain.

Don't have time to read all these shenanigans.

[Sarathos]

Oh, by the way, I kept Woad&Fangs Doctor Group PM - it is the same as Pevergreen posted, but he had deleted the names inside the message.

Woad&Fangs notified all recipients that the others were;

Beefy
Makanyane
Glenn
Sarathos
taka


Did any of these people agree to join with woad?

Whether we all did or none of us did is really no consellation because your still going to be lynched. And the whole 'get others before you die' isnt really working. For one Beefy got attacked so I think thats him out, and two you said it was a pm about a doctor group. Now as far as role changes go we would probably all have to be town to agree. Unless you want to get some town lynched I don't know why this is of any significance, other than two your mafia buddies.

Your downfall is at hand Glenn, pleading your way out will only harshen the punishment.

[PershsNhpios]

Really? I'm sorry - I didn't realise.. I thought there must be a great number because I was expecting upwards of 6 killings, 12 if everyone started butchering.

There were many protections occurring then.. or everyone was very tired!

Why do you think I'm pleading Sarathos?

I've spent an hour or so today reading my name over and over again, I know I'm lynched - that doesn't mean you can't pay attention to what I say.

.. What do you mean harshen the punishment? Are you going to kill me in another Mafia game too? Or just twice in this one?

------------------------------------------------

Who else here despises the group of people who are abstaining because they can't be bothered to pay attention and play the game?
You may as well be inactive.

Even worse are the ones who won't read any of the arguments of anyone, yet still think they have sufficient evidence to kill someone.

[Makanyane]

Oh, by the way, I kept Woad&Fangs Doctor Group PM - it is the same as Pevergreen posted, but he had deleted the names inside the message.

Woad&Fangs notified all recipients that the others were;

Beefy
Makanyane
Glenn
Sarathos
taka


Did any of these people agree to join with woad?

not me, not convinced by story yet I'm afraid, though at least that confirmed that list was same as on the pm I got sent (I'd wondered about point of putting it there and if the list might actually have been different according to who it was sent to). I'm not voting on lynch till later today to see if any more info comes out of the thread. Though I do think Glenn probably needs to go, but also .....


FoS: pevergreen - sorry but an admitted wise guy going all out to recruit a bunch of separate groups who you'd like to trust you completely and operate in the dark from each other, hmmmm.

FoS: woad&fangs - that whole first pm smells so badly of a deliberate ploy. Unless every one else thinks he's such a bad player as to indulge his grudge by making it public to those he pm'd and later in thread. All he's actually done is make it least likely that pevergreen would be attacked by vigilantes (no valid game reason given - when he could easily have tried to make up something he 'knew' about pever's role) and he also handed pevergreen the perfect excuse to get a protection group guarding him on a plate....

So is w&f that bad a player? Or is the grudge between them really so bad it would overrule the desire to win if chance put them in same family - its so perfect cover.....?
.....only trouble is now I think I suspect everybody, GAH!


a couple of people have hinted at the idea of getting multiple lynches by getting a tied vote, does anyone think that is worth going for, when we seem to have quite a few dubious characters around who may have protection from vigilante action at night? It would put the final decision down to the director who could decide to let both / all off, which could be a draw back if he's a wrongun, but that would also force him to show his hand..........

[Drisos]

Hey, I ought to do an apology. Hadn't properly read the rules, have looked more into the 'dead' stuff now, and seems what I posted was inappropriate at that stage after my death. Sorry! Should've read the rules properly beforehand :(

[pevergreen]

@everyone who is accusing me of not revealing names to others linked through me.

Everyone who turned up now has a full list of everyone that I co-ordinated last night.

[JimBob]

Can you people not see a bandwagon when it shows up? There are a lot of special roles that we know nothing about. Maybe Glenn has a special ability that gives him a better chance to survive. Maybe a doctor protected him. Why would that doctor come out? They'd only be a target for the mafia.

Let's not have the town go around doing the mob's work. When we kill people let's do it with firm knowledge. Let us not crown some Don king of Fatlington.

[pevergreen]

Glenn 34
The Stranger 32
Sasaki Kojiro 27
Ichigo 26
Andres 21
pevergreen 20
Pannonian 19
Moros 17
Sigurd Fafnesbane 16
Drisos 15
GeneralHankerchief 14
CountArach 14
norwegian nerd 12
Seamus Fermanagh 10
Omanes Alexandrapolites 8
Kagemusha 8
scottishranger 7
Husar 7
KukriKhan 6
Sarathos 6
Zorg 6
Craterus 6
Louis VI the Fat 6
Chimpyang 5
Tiberius of the Drake 5
RoadKill 5
Big King Sanctaphrax 5
woad&fangs 5
TinCow 4
Dutch_guy 4
Twilightblade 4
Myrddraal 4
Rythmic 4
TruePraetorian 4
kamikhaan 4
Brave_Sir_Robin 4
Xdeathfire 3
Xehh II 3
Elite Ferret 3
Joe Monks 3
Charge 3
Hannibalbarc 3
LittleGrizzly 3
Proletariat 3
Kommodus 2
Draco Leman 2
Northnovas 2
Makanyane 2
shlin28 2
Lt. Pinard 2
Crazed Rabbit 2
Tran 2
ajaxfetish 2
Alexander the Pretty Good 2
Xiahou 2
Evil_Maniac From Mars 2
Leet Eriksson 1
johnhughthom 1
Hiji 1
Warmaster Horus 1
gibsonsg91921 1
Motep 1
Caeser The III 1
taka 1
Cowhead418 1
Warluster 1
FactionHeir 1
Beefy187 1
Lord Winter 1
Caius 1


Caius, CR, Shin are not posting enough. 1 or 2 posts each. Normally they have mid range.

Glenn 34
The Stranger 32
Sasaki Kojiro 27
Ichigo 26
Andres 21
pevergreen 20

Nothing that odd in the top range. Im just not winning yet!

[pevergreen]

The dead may post, but not vote/select nor carry out any night actions. Dead players may not reveal their roles publicly or privately until that role has been revealed as per section V and may not reveal their “familiy” or role particulars even after that time. Dead players may not quote from a PM unless that PM has been posted in the public thread by a living player. Dead players may not reveal, recount or allude to their previous night actions (or results thereof in the case of investigations) publicly or privately – even to confirm a previously made public or private reveal. Remember, even if dead you can still score well provided your “side” achieves victory. Your participation must be circumspect, but your continued participation IS encouraged.

Rules for the dead.

[Zorg]

Wow, just wow.... That took me more than an hour to read through. Finnally done though.

Alot has been said, and being out of timezone as usual I guess the best thing for me to do is give my oppinions on who looks guilty. One of the advantages of this is I read it all in one sitting and thus see the trends developing a little more clearly.

In my mind at the moment there is a lot of very scummy behaviour out there, and quite a few lynchable targets. I'll go through who I think looks suspicious:

Norwegian - I don't buy that post, it didn't sound legitamate to me, and he still hasn't revealed. That said however, I think lynching him now isn't really the best idea as there are more obvious and cunning players who I belive to be more dangerous. I will be keeping my eye on him though.

W&f - Just placing him here because my suspicion from before lasts. He hasn't done anything to relieve it and seems to me to just be waiting for his name to be forgotten.

Pevergreen - I still don't trust him at all. I find his actions very suspicious and his posts never seem to be of any great use to the game other than to defend himself. I have yet to see any good arguments out of him, esspecialy for an self acclaimed townie leader.

Glenn - I'm not sure whether it was a luca or a doctor, I don't think we can tell. His recent bursts of information I will be going over in my head and keeping in mind, with a grain of salt of couse, but it is obvious that he will be lynched today unless something amazingly shocking comes to light, so any speculations I might make (and really I can't think of anything which hasn't already been said) would be moot.

The Stranger - I was suspicious of him before, but the information we are hearing about him now in my mind seems to confirm his guilt (although I await what extra information we can gain). His attempts to recruit a group just seem to condem him more.

Sigrud - I'm really not sure. My gut instinct is that he is innocent, but I wouldn't dismiss the information on him either. I would suggest gathering more information on him before lynching him (not that we won't have that time anyway, since Glenn is almost certainly todays first lynch).

With all that in mind, I believe my vote truely dosn't matter, Glenn is dead. However I would like to use my vote as a mark of suspicion on who I think our next lynch should be. I am torn between Pevergreen and The Stranger. Imagining however that both we guilty, Pevergreen would be a lot more dangerous than The Stranger, thanks to the position he has placed himself in. So I:

Vote: Pevergreen

[Sarathos]

Glenn is pretty much just scrambling to defend himself. Everyone else is just coming up with more resons to lynch him, the evidence could be better but there are facts. Not all mafia can survive Glenn.

[PershsNhpios]

I sure am scrambling boyo;

Vote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: Glenn

[JimBob]

Other points:
Who hasn't participated yet?

Vote: Abstain

We don't know enough yet, and I don't want dead Townies



OOC: Seamus, can we get the post number at the top of each section in the summary thread.

[JimBob]

Glenn is pretty much just scrambling to defend himself. Everyone else is just coming up with more resons to lynch him, the evidence could be better but there are facts. Not all mafia can survive Glenn.

What scrambling? He's singing Bette Midler lyrics and voting for himself. What kind of mafia play is that?

This is a bandwagon, plain and simple. Some mafioso decided to start the train to Glenn's death. Let's step back and think about this.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

norwegian nerd's post doesn't ease my mind totally, but at least he's talked anyhow:

Unvote: norwegian nerd

Glenn is a player I'm in a little doubt about after last night's attack. There was only one protector (was this a Luca or a Surgeon?), although he did seem fairly surprised at the save, possibly indicating that he had no idea quite what was going on. I do think a Luca may have told his boss a little more if he were to be trying to rescue him from an attack. I'm not quite sure of what logic Seamus uses when writing the kills though, so this may not be the case.

He's behaving how he's behaved in Fimbulwinter, my game, but of course, I can't really reveal his role since the game is still in progress. He may be a little eccentric and slightly paranoid, although his behaviour does so far seem to be the norm for him regardless.

I'm now looking more to GH, who hasn't really posted much since last night, and has also completely slipped under the radar in the meantime. He still hasn't explained his aggressive and somehow obsessive method of him defending a player and himself. When I last saw him exhibit this sort of behaviour, he was Lycan, a serial killer, in pevergreen's Fantasy Mafia. He certainly needs to be looked into.

Vote: GH

[Pannonian]

I asked Pannonian in a letter to tell me what was going on between him and Pevergreen or else he would attract my distrust.

He never responded.

Well, it seems a bit odd to out and out lie so early in the game, but here's the PM exchange between me and Glenn.

I think you had better tell me in the most faithful form, what is going on between you and Pevergreen.
This scares me, and if I don't find out damned fast what operation the two of you have, my suspicion could be damaging.

Now, you tell me without reason that Pevergreen must be protected.

Then Pevergreen votes for you as director.

Then Pevergreen PMs me with an attitude that suggests he knows everything being said between the two of us, and tells me that Woad&Fangs plan to kill him, "Will not last".

Lastly, Woad&Fangs is very suspicious of even myself now.

I'm not spouting anything into the public eye, nor does anyone else know - as of yet.

You tell me everything necessary for me to trust you, or we simply part discussion.

As for pever's past connections to me. Capo 1 was his first Mafia game, in which he was a Don and I was a townie. I led the charge to lynch him, and suspecting he'd been betrayed by someone, he PMed some screenshots around, which got him a reprimand from Seamus, then posted something, which I saw. The substance of that post spoiled the game for me, and I quit the game (committed suicide) to avoid spoiling it for anyone else, but not before scolding him and warning him to keep away for the rest of the game. In our next game together (Mafia VI), he once again posted a screenshot, against the explicit rules, so I called on GH to modkill him. You can see the history of this in the rules forbidding screenshots and too-revealing PMs and quotes, and this was what pever was referring to when he mentioned the suicide.

Perhaps that doesn't count as a response in Glenn's book, but it certainly looks like one to my eyes.

[PershsNhpios]

There was a PM following this.. And everyone should note that the beginning and end of that response is; "As for pever's past connections to me".

[Xehh II]

What does FoS mean?

[pevergreen]

Oh no. I had forgotten the second screenshot.

Now I feel terrible again.

[PershsNhpios]

You are terrible. But I doubt you feel terrible.
I could believe you often feel a little corruptive and rotten, like asbestos.

[pevergreen]

Finger of Suspicion: Informs the public of suspected guilt, but not enough or not the most guilty to place a vote upon.

[johnhughthom]

Vote:Abstain

I've never played anything like this before and it's all going over my head, hopefully I survive long enough to understand what the hell is going on.

[PershsNhpios]

I don't want my information fading out of the minds who can't be bothered to read two pages back.

--

Here is the information, I simply glued the two posts together.
It won't save me, but it will point the finger at the right people.

---------------
It is my second, my first was Fimbulwinter, which started 3 days ago..

Generally, everyone attempts self preservation in a Mafia game - you can't be part of a victory if you are dead.

So that is a terrible excuse for lynching someone.

Next, the main excuse is that I was either protected by a Luca, or a Doctor, and seeing as a Doctor still doesn't prove my innocence, but a Luca would prove my guilt.

How is that rational if you don't know who protected me in any case?

--------------------------------------------

In response to 10 votes, I only have a limited time to play this game, and if I can spend the very first few turns exposing a Mafia family, then I've succeeded in my own part.

I am glad TruePraetorian came forward, he was very suspicious of me when I sent both him and Dutch_Guy PMs to ensure I wasn't being fooled.

As for Pevergreen, there was strong evidence that he, Pannonian and Beefy187 were connected.

When Woad&Fangs sent out his letter asking for a protection group, he sent it to Beefy187, but not to Pannonian or Pevergreen of course.

Beefy187 refused. Makayane can confirm who the letter was sent to.

Beefy then suggested to me it would be a good idea to infiltrate Pevergreen's group to find out what was occuring, and volunteered himself very quickly.
I did not trust this, I asked Pannonian in a letter to tell me what was going on between him and Pevergreen or else he would attract my distrust.

He never responded.

Pevergreen responded by posting my PM, which shows how he intended to kill W&F first - note how he has subtly tried to lynch him.

I think both Woad&Fangs are innocent, however I think they both have at least tried to recruit a large amount of people, for themselves or for the Mafia.

---------------------------------------------

Notice also how Sigurd first dismissed complaints against himself and Stranger, then began pushing against both Stranger and Louis VI when I mentioned the latter.

------------------

Hope to god someone takes this seriously and acts on it, publicly or not..

I've done a lot of studying in the background during my Day 1, Night 1 silence..

I believe Sasaki is innocent.
************************************************** ***********************************

What do I have to lose?

The possibility of gaining more information, and having a more productive role in the game - in other words, life!

I am unsure of some things, but I know names that can come forward and set things perfectly.

Protection Group Alpha, recruited by Stranger.
Glenn, Dutch_Guy, TruePraetorian

Protection Group Beta, recruited by - Stranger?
Drisos, Moros, Andres

Alpha protected Louis VI the Fat.

Beta protected Sigurd Fafnesbane.

Step forward, protectees, what was the reason for being recruited into this?
Considering I received my recruitment PM about one hour after game start, this all seemed too organised to be township.

You all must of realised also, if we can all give some evidence on this we can put this little Mafia away - and only one of us will die, myself. How romantic.

I have to go, this is a busy day for me, (Actually), so this is a quick reply.
For that reason I can't add this PM in a quote - but what difference does that make? The difference is wether you believe me or not.

A PM from Stranger recently:

for a person with so much info... you know awefully little... tell me something you know and I don't before ill be putting a bit of pressure on you...

I did not handle by sigurd... hes not my boss... but if you do not start telling me stuff you end up dead... you might as well tell me stuff that can save you so i can vouch for your innocense... this is not the way you to end CDTC... not this early

************************************************** **********************************************

[Zorg]

What does FoS mean?

Finger of Suspicion, basicly its just saying your suspicious of someone beyond normal paranoia but not enough to vote them.

EDIT: Already answered

[Pannonian]

There was a PM following this.. And everyone should note that the beginning and end of that response is; "As for pever's past connections to me".

You mean this PM by you?

What evidence have you that WF is mafia?

I have many players to attend here,
so I will say this;
I am willing - I want to participate in a well-intentioned townie group.
But the chances are far greater that people are mafiosi or special this time round - townies are a minority.

So really - there is good and evil..

And which are we?

Good and evil are perspectives, we simply wish to know if we are on the same side here.
So if you want me to join in your ideas, then I want you to abandon defense of Pevergreen on the coming night phase.

I know I am the one who suggested any contact between us at all, but given what I have witnessed, you cannot blame me for suspecting.

I don't trust Pevergreen at all.

Glenn

I had originally tried to lock w&f, Glenn and I into a protection group for pevergreen, the player w&f said he was groupkilling, because I have a strong aversion to townkills and I wanted to guarantee w&f would not be taking part in anysuch. Capo 1 players, or any players for that matter who can read the rules and think them through, will know why. And for players who are neither, here's the explanation, as provided to Glenn in another PM.

I have no idea where pever got the information from, but the reason why I'd rather the mafia kill W&F than he should kill pever for them is because of the cover that a teamkill can provide for a mafioso. Mafiosi who kill people as per their role will get a guilty reading sooner or later when investigated by detectives, but they can get cover for themselves by taking part in a teamkill, then claiming that the guilty reading was the result of a townie group-killing earlier in the game. This tactic is known in Capo, and I was the one who sussed it in Capo 1, hence my very strong prejudice against W&F killing pever (or anyone, for that matter, for the reason given above).

I did eventually manage to cajole w&f out of attempting a kill on pevergreen (or anyone else), so there was little else to be discussed on that matter.

[CountArach]

Anything more than those two posts Glenn?

[pevergreen]

Greetings.

CDTC is a large game, with many of you fumbling around to organize groups and so forth.

I offer a beacon of townie gathering. Pro town need only respond with their intention and preferred method (killing, protecting) of helping the town.

Im putting my own life out there for it.

P,

How many people do you have? Call them off Glenn. There are 22 hours until voting ends. Saving Glenn is critical for the town. He and I are part of an organization that is dedicated to destroying the mob.
I'm putting my ass on the line here, no Luca saved Glenn. If you choose to lynch Glenn you will find yourself having wasted time in two days.

We can do a lot of damage to the mob if you let us.

Our group can help, please let us.
Jim

That isnt substantial enough information to call it off Glenn.

I need roles, how he was saved and who is in your group.

You know the rules. The whole role sheet was in red. I can tell you there are three of us. Glenn is one, we're looking for the other. We're like a pre-built vigilante group. We have a special life saving ability. These are the facts. Losing Glenn will only hurt the town.

The entire Role PM was in red.

Does it allude to what happens if one of you is killed?

We lose our most potent ability.

Jimbob is saying you two are looking for a third.

Convince me I should save you from being lynched.

How can I convince you of anything, when the two of us have been suspicious of each other for so long?

I don't want to die, no, but at the moment I see no other alternative, so I have a carefree attitude.

You aren't guilty, you may of been trying something with the Mafia, but you aren't born guilty into this.

I don't think you can be a third.. how many are in your retinue?

Well I dont know what to do.

I find it 80% likely its made up, but I cant help but feel it may be true.
I know I did that type of thing when I was hosting, I just dont see Seamus making a 2/3 pre-arranged group with extra powers...

[CountArach]

The most suspicious thing is that they are first part of a group, and then JimBob claims that they would like to create a group. I don't know about letting the two of them knowing each other AND giving them special doctoring powers. It seems strange. Perhaps only one of them has a special thing. I am also interested as to what these special powers would do, because as far as I know 3 townies together won't fail.

[Andres]

Glenn, if you are pro-town, the least you can do is reveal your role...

I don't think anything else you'll say will matter now.

Two questions remain unanswered:

- who protected Glenn? alot of people have been focusing on this question...
- who attacked Glenn?

I would have thought Sasaki and his group did so, but he claims that they have been protecting Pannonian.

And to be fair: it was my idea to protect Sigurd last night. I played quite a few games with Sigurd on my townie-side and he never failed to impress me.

Sigurd, I think you made a mistake quoting Drisos' unallowed after dead reveal.

Wasn't it in CDTC I that the Don's knew each other's identity? So maybe Drisos was a detective, maybe he was scum, but I don't see no reason to doubt the accusation.

Unvote: pevergreen; Vote : Don Sigurd.

If only we could create a tie between Glenn and Sigurd and lynch them both...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

JimBob's pm protestations look made up to me.

-Seamus wouldn't add a 3 person special role with a critical ability. Also, vigilantes don't save lives.
-There's no reason for glenn not to have claimed it earlier. Given the huge amount of effort he's gone into, reposting all the information that he summarized, I find it unbelievable that there isn't even a hint of a special role.
-ergo JimBob is most likely Glenn's scumbuddy trying to save his don.

Wasn't it in CDTC I that the Don's knew each other's identity? So maybe Drisos was a detective, maybe he was scum, but I don't see no reason to doubt the accusation.

Unvote: pevergreen; Vote : Don Sigurd.

If only we could create a tie between Glenn and Sigurd and lynch them both...

Scummy post. There's no reason to be so sure Sigurd is guilty. Drisos's accusation is not very significant at all. Reason to watch sigurd at most.