Another HRE-Rush

[Csargo]

I tried this last night and I did pretty decent for a guy who knows nothing about blitzing. I had around 10 provinces with 2-3 cities about to be assaulted at turn 4 but was excom. by the pope and decided I probably wouldn't fair well after that.

[Ignoramus]

That's amazing. You deserve an Org Award for that. I'd give it a crack at beating it, but I MTWII won't run on my computer at the moment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I tried this last night and I did pretty decent for a guy who knows nothing about blitzing. I had around 10 provinces with 2-3 cities about to be assaulted at turn 4 but was excom. by the pope and decided I probably wouldn't fair well after that.

HINT:

If you need to do something that could get you excommunicated, here is how you avoid it.

1. Don't get warned. If you accomplish what you want in a single turn, you can't even get warned.

2. If you need two turns, MAKE SURE RELATIONS WITH THE POPE ARE PERFECT FIRST, so your warning is just a warning, not a threat.

3. Ballista/catapults can take cities in a single turn... this means you can wipe out empires (FRANCE) in the blink of an eye. No warnings.

4. If you have completed a crusade or have been wiping out factions, your glory and fear bonuses OFFSET excommunication public order penalties.

It's as if you never got excommunicated, and you can act with impunity.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's amazing. You deserve an Org Award for that. I'd give it a crack at beating it, but I MTWII won't run on my computer at the moment.

Perhaps. However, we are currently doing hall of fame for 2007, and by the time hall of fame for 2008 rolls around, will anyone even remember this thread?

[SirRethcir]

I tried this last night and I did pretty decent for a guy who knows nothing about blitzing. I had around 10 provinces with 2-3 cities about to be assaulted at turn 4 but was excom. by the pope and decided I probably wouldn't fair well after that.

I had 20 or so. ;)


Ok, askthepizzaguy, take this:





Wuhuuu!!!


I was heading for a 10 turn victory, so the last turn was a bit tricky. ;)





Conclusion:
So, one can make it in 8 turns.
In my 8th turn I had 42 Provinces. With two intelligent fought battles I could have captured two more cities, but I had totally forgotten to prepare the assault on Rome (e.g. to build a siege weapon), so I had to wait another turn.
(Sh.. happens! )

[Csargo]

Well my problem was I didn't have enough troops to continue to go on. I used a lot of mercenaries but that seemed to put a damper on my treasury. I could get a little cash from diplomacy and sacking but not really enough to continue my war machine.

[SirRethcir]

Well my problem was I didn't have enough troops to continue to go on. I used a lot of mercenaries but that seemed to put a damper on my treasury. I could get a little cash from diplomacy and sacking but not really enough to continue my war machine.

The money is not the problem, the shortage of troops is.
.. But 'crusades' is the magic word. ;)

PS: Added a picture and an animated GIF.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Certainly impressive.

I will endeavor to meet or beat that record. Busy now with my massive new Blitz thread for the blitz all challenge.

Congratulations, SirRethcir, I have since removed the title from my Sig. It is yours now.

[SirRethcir]

Certainly impressive.

I will endeavor to meet or beat that record. Busy now with my massive new Blitz thread for the blitz all challenge.

Congratulations, SirRethcir, I have since removed the title from my Sig. It is yours now.

Thanks!
I'm certain you reclaim the title sooner or later.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hail, mein Kasier.

I probably would have done better if it weren't for my options before turn 8... I simply loaded from my Blitz All Campaign and went from turn 8.

Those first 8 turns were spent trying to move into position for a 106 province victory, not merely a 45 province victory.

With adjustments to the strategy, I feel confident we will at least be sharing that title.

But as I said, you deserve the award. It's not a simple matter to beat these new records. The old ones stood for a while.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I managed to get near 45 provinces on turn 8, but I wasn't even close to taking Rome at the time.

My strategy was flawed thusly: I used every available general as a crusader unit. Apparently it will be more useful to divide the crusaders in half... some go on the crusade, some don't. Some will join later, and some will leave the crusade to take France.

I also did not use ballista properly. I will remedy that.

In my opinion, you can't really do it in 8 turns. But I will try. There is just so little time to assemble the troops.

I should have left the crusade when I took Breslau, so I could wipe out Poland. That would have put me over the top.

I should have assaulted France straight away after I took the Belgian provinces.

I wasted turns trying to crusade into moorish territory for 4 freebie provinces.

I got three out of the four, though, with one crusade stack, plus a rebel province. You seem to have managed only two in the Iberian peninsula. I think I can beat that.

I also had a grand oppurtunity to take Hungary, which would have also improved upon what you accomplished. A simple strike with militia troops and a ballista unit will take the Hungarian capital.

I also note that you seem to have gifted Zagreb to the Pope? You can avoid that and still get a crusade going.

Sell maps, alliances, and offers to attack until you have about 4000 florins. That way you can overcome your sacking reputation hit and still get a crusade. Alternatively, do not sack for the first two turns, and all a crusade on turn 3. Aim for the Pope's diplomat north of Rome with a peasant, or take Florence turn 2, to start negotiations.

If I plan well, it will be easy to meet your record on the next attempt. However, getting 8 turn victory may not happen. We shall see...

Good show.

If I do indeed manage the Long Campaign victory in 8 turns, I still don't think that strategy will be useful at all for taking all 106 provinces. The first crusade needs to get you to the 4 corners of the map, and you can't do that and meet Long Campaign conditions by turn 8. Rome alone costs you several crusade turns.

Therefore, I remain confident that my Blitz All Challenge record will remain untouched for a while, and we will be sharing the Kaiser of Blitz crown as well.

Hail, future co-regent of the Long Campaign!

[SirRethcir]

I managed to get near 45 provinces on turn 8, but I wasn't even close to taking Rome at the time.

My strategy was flawed thusly: I used every available general as a crusader unit. Apparently it will be more useful to divide the crusaders in half... some go on the crusade, some don't. Some will join later, and some will leave the crusade to take France.

I also did not use ballista properly. I will remedy that.

I didn't have a single ballista, that was the problem. ;)
Also, I didn't use my spies to open city gates.

Concerning crusades:
Are you aware that you can attack catholic factions with a crusading army?
Thats a little flaw I discovered because of pure despair.

I also note that you seem to have gifted Zagreb to the Pope? You can avoid that and still get a crusade going.

Well a that time a had no cross. So it was absolutely necessary.
I never said it was a perfect rush.

Therefore, I remain confident that my Blitz All Challenge record will remain untouched for a while, [...]

Well I will not try this record. So, no danger from my side.

[Askthepizzaguy]

1. I didn't have a single ballista, that was the problem. ;)
Also, I didn't use my spies to open city gates.

2. Concerning crusades:
Are you aware that you can attack catholic factions with a crusading army?
Thats a little flaw I discovered because of pure despair.

3. Well a that time a had no cross. So it was absolutely necessary.
I never said it was a perfect rush.

4. Well I will not try this record. So, no danger from my side.

1. I had a whole one spy from the beginning. First, wasting time building brothels. Second, the tier one spies they churn out by mid campaign are useless. I did manage to use ballistas to take Rome, Venice, and so forth.

2. You can attack excommunicated catholics, and defend yourseld against ambushes which get them excommunicated, and you can also reinforce a stack that is being attacked with crusaders. However, it is otherwise impossible to attack with crusading armies against Catholics.

3. Nearly perfect. 8 turns would be perfect.

4. I am certain someone will try. What is the point of holding a record no one ever challenges?

[SirRethcir]

[...] and you can also reinforce a stack that is being attacked with crusaders. However, it is otherwise impossible to attack with crusading armies against Catholics.

The first sentence leads to an other possibility.
You can march with a crusading army to a city held by a not excommunicated catholic faction and than leave the crusade. Your General can now attack the city. Yet, he can not build many siege equipment and if he can not recruit mercenary infantry, he can not initate the siege battle.
Now comes the flaw/bug in to play.
Place your whole cruasding army adjacent to a city, leave the crusade, select your general and attack/besiege the settlement. Now you have the full siege points of your army and you can initate the siege battle with your crusading troops. After you captured the city join the crusade again and go on.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The first sentence leads to an other possibility.
You can march with a crusading army to a city held by a not excommunicated catholic faction and than leave the crusade. Your General can now attack the city. Yet, he can not build many siege equipment and if he can not recruit mercenary infantry, he can not initate the siege battle.
Now comes the flaw/bug in to play.
Place your whole cruasding army adjacent to a city, leave the crusade, select your general and attack/besiege the settlement. Now you have the full siege points of your army and you can initate the siege battle with your crusading troops. After you captured the city join the crusade again and go on.

What version?

As far as I know, that's not doable in my version. Believe me, I've tried.

Any time crusading troops join a 'catholic-city-seige', that seige is lifted automatically by the game.

Example: attack city with non crusaders. Then have crusaders join the stack. The crusaders cancel the seige by default on version 1.2. In the interest of fairness, all my blitzes have been on VH/VH 1.2 version. Otherwise my magic wand of unlimited chivalry and total control over all diplomacy using the infamous 'gift offers to attack you've already gifted for the same effect leading to perfect relations with AT WAR factions and despicable reputation' trick would make the game exceedingly unfair. I wouldn't even have to spend florins to make the pope my...

...'ancillary'.

The way I could conceivably do what you're suggesting in my version:

Seige the city using only the non-crusading generals, with the crusader stack reinforcing in the city ZOC, adjacent to the generals in case of relief forces attacking your general, in which case they reinforce. I think they reinforce in case of a sally as well... maybe?

Enemy sallies, and you win the battle using only your generals.

Take the city, rejoin the crusade, move to next city.

How to win using only your generals:

Have like 3 or more of them and just keep making the idiots rout. Not particularly easy if the enemy has their king in the mix.

Use the old 'chase me, chase me.... oh you left your city undefended charge back to the city square and hold it for 3 minutes because you idiots dont have horses' scam.

If you have proof of what you're suggesting on version 1.2, I'd love to see a screenshot. Thanks for the tip, I will attempt it.

[SirRethcir]

What version?

M2TW 1.3 (of course)

Any time crusading troops join a 'catholic-city-seige', that seige is lifted automatically by the game.

That's correct!

But I never said that the general should leave the army:
"Place your whole crusading army adjacent to a city, leave the crusade, select your general and attack/besiege the settlement."
You have to select the general (or any other non-crusading unit) inside the army stack.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Still having trouble accomplishing that in my version, SirRethcir.

Kudos on your win, again, as I am having great difficulty meeting the 8 turn mark.

Will try again soon.

In the meantime, let it be known to ALL that my official HRE Blitz All Provinces Battle Report thread is now fully operational (more or less)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=99026 The Ultimate Blitzkrieg (HRE)

You can now see images and captions for the ENTIRE campaign.

Please visit and comment.

Warning: 600+ images... slow connections need not apply until we have a page 2... where we can actually load the thing in less than a minute.

[SirRethcir]

Still having trouble accomplishing that in my version, SirRethcir.

Just tried it with 1.02 -> it works.
See this thread for pictures:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...62#post1835762