Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

[Craterus]

I was under the impression that WGs would appears as innocent if investigated.

Surely you'd already know?

[Myrddraal]

EDIT: nvmind, need sleep

[Hannibalbarc]

I think we need to lynch either Andres or GH today.

Why not both, Andres is both suspicious and considered criminal due to an investigation, and GH is very suspicious, if I could vote I would vote for Andres.

[ajaxfetish]

Thoughts:

Mafia Groups:

Asians/Ballet slippers
--Drisos was killed on night 1 by two individuals, one with a bad Asian accent, and had ballet slippers left on his face.
--GH was attacked night 2 by one individual with a bad Asian accent (apparently the partner failed to show, possibly missed pm deadline). No slippers since it was an unsuccessful hit.
--Pannonian was killed on night 3 after an individual dressed as a policeman pushed him in front of a trolley. The 'policeman' then placed a pair of ballet slippers on his face and vanished. No mention of Asian accents as there is no dialogue.

We have a consistent calling card in the ballet slippers, and the Asian accent to link GH's failed attack to the others. I'm thinking this is our first mafia family. Interesting that GH fails to tie the two together, noting that the Asian mafia seems to have disappeared (post 1329).

Religious Wackos/Weathermen
--Glenn was attacked night 2 by a lone assailant wielding a statue of St. Michael. Outside was a van filled with weather balloons, a fillet knife, and Deuteronomy 32:35 printed on the balloons. He was killed on night 3 by someone wielding a statue (again), accusing him of heresy, and leaving Jeremiah 48:10 and LQKI as calling cards. He was killed/disposed of by means of a weather balloon.
--Beefy was killed on night 3 after being knocked out by a flying object (religious statue, perchance?). A bible with Exodus 23:7 marked had been planted in his pocket, and his assailant made reference to the New Testament story of Saul. His body was dismembered and sent aloft with weather balloons. The number 216 was painted on one of his quarters, which JimBob noted as the product of 6 * 6 * 6, the mark of the beast noted in Revelation.
--The Stranger was killed on night 3 by assailants who painted the number 4 on his chest, cut crosses in his cheeks, and sent him aloft with a weather balloon. Both his and Glenn's attacks also seemed to involve projectile syringes with tranquilizers. If Beefy's object was not a statue, his may have as well.

These guys like religious symbolism, tranquilizers, and weather balloons. They're also the most worrisome because they managed three hits in one night, though they were already operative by night 2 (of course one failed attempt is unimpressive compared to three successful ones). I don't get the LQKI or the number 4 yet. Someone else may be able to shed light on it. Glenn has hinted at a religiously-themed role for himself and was accused of heresy. He was also the first target (night 2) for this gang. Are the religious affiliations in some way connected, or is it coincidence? GH in his first analysis links Beefy's killing to his first attack or Lord Winter's hit, though neither involved religion or weather balloons, and a lethal dose of heroin seems only distantly related to the use of tranquilizers.

Yellow Rose Group
--Zorg was killed on night 3 in a public bathroom. Amid the chaos of machine-gun fire and grenades, police found an inexplicable yellow rose.

Zorg seems to be introducing a new mafia family to us, as the unexplained presence of a 'single perfect yellow rose,' is about as clear a calling card as I can imagine, but it hadn't shown up previously that I noticed. Interestingly, GH's analysis was Vig Kill because he 'couldn't see a calling card' (post 1319).

-------------------------------------------------------------------

GH is either out of touch or dissembling. He made several errors in analyzing this night's events, and I would have expected more from as experienced a player as he is. He may just be having a rough day, but I'm still suspicious.

Andres is attacked unsuccessfully for the second night in a row, and in eerily similar circumstances. My gut instinct is don protected on night 3 by a luca. On night 2 he was saved by his directorial guard, but as Seamus originally overlooked his protection, he let slip that the hit would have been successful. A luca wouldn't have bothered protecting on night 2 since his services were unneeded, so it's consistent. However, didn't someone reveal an investigation on Andres that came out 'criminal'? I can't remember. That would make the situation muddier.

That's all I've got for now.

Ajax

edit: forgot about the 216 thing on Beefy. Added it.
edit 2: CR beat me to some of the mafia group connections. I guess that's what I get for trying to make a long post in such an active thread.

[ajaxfetish]

As of now, my vote will go to either GH or Andres, unless they can offer a convincing defense. I'd vote for whoever is currently behind, but the tally hasn't been updated and I'm too tired to hunt it down atm.

And for now, select: Woad & Fangs. After Pannonian revealed Tiberius, and Tiberius owned up to it, Pann was one of the few players I was starting to trust. He's dead now. Woad & Fangs I believe was the source of the reveal, was identified by Pann as working with him in a protection group night 2, and has already claimed to be a wise guy. While he could be recruited by mafia due to his neutral role, he seems to be working on the side of the town so far.

Ajax

[Csargo]

Surely you'd already know?

I hardly ever pay attention

[Caius]

It isnt selection time now.

[Northnovas]

When I read the bible quotes I thought of Pulp Fiction. If anyone is a movie buff to tie in any of the clues.
As for quotes they are Old Testament and a simple English version provided.

Jeremiah 48:10

Sloppy work in God's name is cursed,
and cursed all halfhearted use of the sword.

Deuteronomy 32:35

Don't you realize that I have my shelves
well stocked, locked behind iron doors?
I'm in charge of vengeance and payback,
just waiting for them to slip up;
And the day of their doom is just around the corner,
sudden and swift and sure.

Exodus 23:7

Stay clear of false accusations. Don't contribute to the death of innocent and good people. I don't let the wicked off the hook.

By ajaxfetish summary there would be three active families at the moment? If there is no "calling card" then it is not a mafia hit?

[gibsonsg91921]

Vote:Andres

How does he keep living? Who's killing him?

[ajaxfetish]

It isnt selection time now.

Ah. Sorry, still getting the hang of the rules. Forgot about the day off selecting.

And as for the other two families, I don't know if they're active or not. Perhaps it's not necessary to have a calling card, but without one being used I can't group attacks together. Perhaps they have inactive members and haven't got off the ground. Perhaps they've been busy investigating and haven't bothered with attacks. Perhaps they've attacked and Seamus hasn't included a signature modus operandi. Perhaps he has given them a calling card and I haven't identified it.

Ajax

[TinCow]

Andres is attacked unsuccessfully for the second night in a row, and in eerily similar circumstances. My gut instinct is don protected on night 3 by a luca. On night 2 he was saved by his directorial guard, but as Seamus originally overlooked his protection, he let slip that the hit would have been successful. A luca wouldn't have bothered protecting on night 2 since his services were unneeded, so it's consistent. However, didn't someone reveal an investigation on Andres that came out 'criminal'? I can't remember. That would make the situation muddier.

I agree fully.

Vote: Andres

[TruePraetorian]

I honestly don't have an opinion of Andres...but if you think about it he can't be a don if he came up criminal, he can only be a wiseguy or made. General on the other hand is, to me, more suspicious then Andres, but I still wouldn;t put them on my "blacklist" as Caius suggested earlier. Either way, I Vote:Abstain. With so many dead from last night phase, it leaves very few suspicious people besides GH and Andres, but I see no evidence to "condemn" them. And besides that, the turn ends 11 hours from now, and I am waiting for more proof before I vote. I won't hop on another bandwaggon like I did Glenn the first round. (Sorry Glenn )

So, if you can persuade me you have my vote

EDIT: Vote:GeneralHankerchief
Changed vote, for the sake of a tie, and because GH is more suspcious.

Here is the Cappotally.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Tally: post 1362

GeneralHankerchief: 3 (prole, CA, TruePraetorian)
Andres: 3 (CR, Gibsong91921, TinCow)
Abstain: 3 (XeHHII, Hiji, Ichigo)
Present: 1 (GH)

[CountArach]

CountArach- Is a wiseguy and with the large number of bible/balloon mafia members it would be wise to also root out the wiseguys in case they're trying to join.

I stayed at home. So many people who I can't trust. Its all just easier that way. Also my earlier protection group broke up.

EDIT: Typo...

[Craterus]

When does this phase end? I'd like to see an updated tally before I vote but won't be online again for ~14 hours at least.

EDIT: Thursday 0100 GMT.

K, I'll vote later.

[ajaxfetish]

vote: Generalhankerchief
I may not get another chance to log on before the day phase ends, so I'll vote for one of my two prime suspects, and since it looks like it's currently a tie, I guess it doesn't matter too much which one. GH gets my vote for today.

Ajax

--------------------------------------------------------------

Capotally as of post 1364

GeneralHankerchief: 4 (prole, CA, TruePraetorian, ajaxfetish)
Andres: 3 (CR, Gibsong91921, TinCow)
Abstain: 3 (XeHHII, Hiji, Ichigo)
Present: 1 (GH)

[Kagemusha]

It seems that in the mass of murders, people are forgetting the result of Drisos role. He was indeed detective and he identified Sigurd Fafnesbane as mafia Don. We cant afford to let Sigurd live with this knowledge. Vote: Sigurd

[PershsNhpios]

And you, Mr. Suspect, are forgetting that Drisos died before he could succeed in receiving any investigation results, as he woke up dead on the morning of Day 2.

Does FactionHeir agree with you?

[Csargo]

Vote:Sigurd

No idea how he got the information, but I don't see why he'd lie.

[CountArach]

And you, Mr. Suspect, are forgetting that Drisos died before he could succeed in receiving any investigation results, as he woke up dead on the morning of Day 2.

Does FactionHeir agree with you?

Ummm... you do realise that that means that he could investigate Night 1... In fact you should know that because you claim to be able to investigate...

Should we go for the triple lynch now? Andres, GH and Sigurd?

Current Tally:
GeneralHankerchief: 4 (prole, CA, TruePraetorian, ajaxfetish)
Andres: 3 (CR, Gibsong91921, TinCow)
Sigurd: 2 (Kagemusha, Ichigo)
Abstain: 3 (XeHHII, Hiji, Ichigo)
Present: 1 (GH)

[Csargo]

Should we go for the triple lynch now? Andres, GH and Sigurd?

The more the merrier.

[Kommodus]

I have some information that might shed some light on things.

GH contacted me last night. He claimed to be a wise guy, and forwarded his PM to me. I won't quote it here, but I will say that it looked completely authentic. So unless GH could have somehow obtained someone else's wise guy PM, I'm inclined to believe him.

Of course, this doesn't make him innocent; but he did agree to join my protection group (an effort which, due to poor timing on my part, unfortunately did not come together).

Question: can anyone say what Andres has been up to during the past two nights? All I know is that he was in a protection group on night 1.

As for me,

Vote: Rythmic

His behavioral patterns, as detected by Holmes, are rather fishy...

And now it's well past my bedtime.

[Zorg]

Well damn.... that certainly puts a damper on things. As someone who is dead I don't think its apropriate for me to reveal, not that there is much TO reveal anyway. I was not a detective as such and had no investigation results. I wish the town the very best luck in beating the mafia, I'll help where I can.

Glenn and me had some very close conversations, however I would like to express to the town my suspicion of him. I think Glenn was very useful to know and get information from, but his honesty and integrity I doubt, and the possibility of him being a don is not one far from my mind. Now that I'm already dead I have no fear in saying this.

I have no idea why someone would kill me, other than the fact I was active enough to help the town but not active enough to be protected .

Anyway, good luck everyone. Lynch those mafia!

[PershsNhpios]

Well then Zorg, it appears I wasn't the one who lacked integrity and honesty!

Count Arach, Sasaki, (I think), noted somewhere else in this thread that if you investigate on the same night you are killed - then you cannot receive the results of that investigation.
Of course, this may be wrong - but it seemed logical to me - that if Drisos was killed his investigations could not possibly of been completed.


However, don't forget to cast attention on how Ichigo made the statement;

"No idea how he got the information, but I don't see why he'd lie."

Are you forgetting that this is a game of Mafia?
And that people in this game lie far more often than reveal the truth?

What do you know about Kagemusha's honesty that the public doesn't?
------------

I would also like to claim the privilege, should Rythmic be guilty, of being able to shout clearly, "I told you so", because I am the sole person who has tried to show how Mafia-like he is.

Along with Kagemusha, FactionHeir, Tran, and CrazedRabbit.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Vote: GH

I'm not sure about Andres, although I do doubt he's a Don due to the criminal result Sassaki revealed earlier on in the game. This makes him either one of those townies who appear criminal but aren't, a Luca, a Made or a Wise Guy. Due to the low numbers of townies which are supposed to turn out guilty, I would be willing to suspect that he's either a Luca, Wise Guy or Made rather than somebody on the more innocent side of the spectrum.

What I didn't like about Andres was his defence here - I thought it was a little scummy in the way it voiced an overt level of frustration at having the FoS pointing in his direction.

This could be dismissed as him having a "bad day" as he said, although I'm not sure what to believe of that - it was early on in the morning in the Netherlands (GMT+1) when he posted, so I doubt he had had enough time to actually have had a bad day. Due to this, I am lead to believe that there could be something a little more sinister behind it.

For now though I would prefer to go after GH for reasons previously specified - the evidence against him is much larger than Andres'. Although he has a wise guy PM, I wouldn't expect it to be too hard for any mafioso to get one from one of their fresh recruits.

[Andres]

a) I came up "criminal" after investigation ergo I cannot be a Don. Those voting me arguing that I'm probably a Don protected by a Luca are making a mistake.
b) Last night, I got contacted by TS who asked me to join a protection group. I asked him who we were going to protect. He didn't know yet. Heard nothing after that, so I slept.
c) N1 : I was in a protection group with Moros, TSand Drisos, protecting Sigurd : N1 results:

Protect Sigurd Fafnesbane = inconclusive

N2: I was in a protection group with The Stranger, Dutch_Guy and Myrddraal, protecting Glenn. Results:

Protect: Glenn = failure

Insufficient orders coordination for success; no solo risk to participants.

d) I came up criminal, because I'm a Wiseguy.

Here's my role pm :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

WiseGuy


Victory Conditions.

You can chart your own course to victory. You can join a mafia family and work for that family’s victory. You can join a mafia family, try to supplant the Don and become Capo de Tutti Capi yourself. You can form your own Criminal family and try to dominate the others. You can even put crime behind you, change roles, and work for the victory of the town over the mafia. What route you choose is up to you.


Powers and Limitations

A. General

1. You are the raw material for expanding a crime family. Remember that if they are unable to recruit you to their cause, you probably become very “expendable” in their eyes.

2. *Red text *

B. Day Actions

1. You may vote/select as any other townie.

C. Night Actions

1. Combine with 3 townies you can attempt to kill one target per night (after two successful kills, one of them will become a “Wise Guy” and can progress from there). Such kills only count as “half-credit” for your ascension to Made Gangster (unaffiliated).

2. Combine with 2 townies you can attempt to protect one target per night (after two successful protections, one of you may become a “Doctor “ and can progress from there; if you do you’ll cease being a Wise Guy.

3. If following two successful protections you are selected as Doctor and refuse, you can choose to become a regular townie. Two further successful protections will result in your promotion to Detective – but in your case you will become a Rogue Detective similar to that occurring in Capo-I.

4. One advantage you have over a townie, while participating in such townie groups, is that should you end up as a “solo” on a save or kill attempt, it is unlikely to get you killed – though there is a chance your identity would be revealed.

5. Combine with 2 other Wise Guys you can attempt to kill one target per night (after three successful kills, one of you (random) will become a “Made Gangster (Unaffiliated)” and can progress from there).

6. Combine with 1 other Wise Guy or Made under the aegis of a Family and you can perform one killing per night (after three successful kills, and with the permission of the family Don, you will become a “Made Gangster” and can progress from there).

D. Investigations

It is probable that, if investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will be discovered as “criminal,” though about one in five Wise Guys will register as “Unclear.” You will only register as “guilty” if you have participated in a non-family-sanctioned killing or a family-sanctioned killing on the night of that killing.


Role Changing

As noted above, you have many options for a role change and can progress readily in that new role. Remember, once you have chosen a path by moving forward into a new role, however, you cannot reconsider and revert.

[Csargo]

Are you forgetting that this is a game of Mafia?
And that people in this game lie far more often than reveal the truth?

No, I'm not. Maybe mafia do.

"I have to reveal now that I've known Drisos' identity all along, though my team researched everything just to be sure," said Commissioner Fermanagh. "Drisos was a Fatlington detective, and a damned good one. I don't know how those mafia scum found out about him, but I hope you send every last one of them to Hell."

Your point is moot in my opinion. He didn't lie about being a detective, so I don't see why he'd try to get the town to go astray. That doesn't make sense. I have no idea how he got the information, but the one thing I do know is that he's the only person who has been proven innocent in this game and is a person who I can trust.

Andres PM looks exactly like mine. I'm a Wise Guy as well.

[Sigurd]

It seems that in the mass of murders, people are forgetting the result of Drisos role. He was indeed detective and he identified Sigurd Fafnesbane as mafia Don. We cant afford to let Sigurd live with this knowledge. Vote: Sigurd

A very scummy post there Kage...

You blatantly ignore the discussion we have had on this subject. Drisos was a detective. This has been revealed.
But he was killed on night 1 and would not have been able to do any investigations in this game. And he also claimed that he was in a protection group, protecting me or Louis. You can't do both investigations and protection on the same night. Finally he claims I am a Don, which when investigated, will come up as innocent and would be inconclusive as to the fact that the person investigated is a Don or a pro-town.
A very dangerous accusation and I want Drisos to acknowledge the fact that he is just guessing and badly so.
I could be wrong about you Kagemusha and will not vote for you. But I would like to hear why you are still pushing this theory.

While I am writing, I have a question regarding the game mechanics.
If you are attacked during a night, and you are out and about doing pro-town/mafia business, will your night action be cancelled? I know this is how it worked in previous games I have played. I have yet to find any info about it in the Capo series. Anyone have experience with this?

I haven't seen Andres making a defence yet, and he was also part of the team that set fire to the accusation of me being a Don. I therefore vote:Andres

[Andres]

I haven't seen Andres making a defence yet, and he was also part of the team that set fire to the accusation of me being a Don. I therefore vote:Andres

Ahem, two posts above yours, namely here.

And for the accusation of you being a Don, that accusation was made by Drisos, who turned out to be a detective according to the autopsy...

So, the case against me:
- Andres got protected ! He must be a Don = wrong. I came up "criminal", Dons come up "innocent" after investigation.
- Andres came up "criminal", he must be mafia = wrong, I'm a wiseguy. My reveal is genuine because:

Andres PM looks exactly like mine. I'm a Wise Guy as well.

Also note : "criminal" is not = "guilty". The fact that I came up as "criminal" means I was not involved in any of the killings. A Wiseguy who was involved in murders always gets a "guilty" result when investigated.

I'd appreciate a few unvotes.

[Sigurd]

Ahem, two posts above yours, namely here.

And for the accusation of you being a Don, that accusation was made by Drisos, who turned out to be a detective according to the autopsy...

So, the case against me:
- Andres got protected ! He must be a Don = wrong. I came up "criminal", Dons come up "innocent" after investigation.
- Andres came up "criminal", he must be mafia = wrong, I'm a wiseguy. My reveal is genuine because:

As has been noted, displaying a wise-guy role pm says squat about you beeing actually a wise-guy. We have noted that the balloon mafia has more than one kill this night. This means they have wise-guys in their ranks and it would be easy to fish a role pm from one of them. That you haven't realised this is incriminating.

To the criminal result, I bet as a Don you can join groups as any other player. And I bet if you joined one of the vigilante teams (there were at least two on night 1), you would come up as criminal or guilty that night. The way to check this is to get one innocent read on you from this point on and during the rest of the game.

[Andres]

As has been noted, displaying a wise-guy role pm says squat about you beeing actually a wise-guy. We have noted that the balloon mafia has more than one kill this night. This means they have wise-guys in their ranks and it would be easy to fish a role pm from one of them. That you haven't realised this is incriminating.

Oh come on. I might as well say that your paranoia is typical behaviour of a mafioso who wants the focus on a clear innocent.

To the criminal result, I bet as a Don you can join groups as any other player. And I bet if you joined one of the vigilante teams (there were at least two on night 1), you would come up as criminal or guilty that night. The way to check this is to get one innocent read on you from this point on and during the rest of the game.

Read the rules, read my role pm. If involved in murder, you come up as "guilty". Criminal means I wasn't involved in murders.

So again: I was not involved in any killings whatsoever. So this means that I'm a Wiseguy who has not worked yet for the mafia.

I think there are better suspects to lynch, but feel free to keep focusing on Wiseguy #14 who has no ties to any of the mafia families.