Tabletop Wargaming.

[YAKOBU]

Hi everyone

Not sure if this is the best place for this so moderators feel free to move.


I have lost interest in M2TW and Kingdoms recently and yearned for a return to the ancient era. I still have RTW but the strategy map was always slow with my mouse (tried lots of fixes).

Anyway back to the point. I received an Osprey brochure in the post today which had wargaming books advertised. I searched the web and found my home town of Leeds has a wargaming club. They have a meeting tomorrow but unfortunately I am on a date.

Now I am a little older and financially stable the expense of buying an army (probably Roman) is not an issue. Can you please let me know of your own experiences of wargaming, particularly ancient.

I have an 8 year old son who likes seeing the Total War games on my computer. It would be nice for us to enjoy a simplified version of wargaming.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

[Horseman]

Hmmm well I've been table top wagaming for quite some years. I 1st started out around the age of 8 so I wouldn't say your son is too young but it would need to be quite basic (The 1st games I played were very simple affairs!)

These days you are spoiled for choice with ancient wargames rules, a quick internet search will bring up many options (plus lots of figure manufactures)

From the top of my head I'd recommend either;

DBA - this is a "quick play" set of ancient rules, it is very old and was written by the wargames research group (WRG) It requires only modest initial outlay to see if you like it. Each army is made up of 12 bases of troops. Each base is typically 3/4 Infantry or 2/3 cavalry. If this does strike your interest once going WRG also produce a set of rules called DBM. The basic mechanics remain the same but are expanded (Each class of troop is further broken down into superior, ordinary, inferior or special types for example) and is designed with much larger battles in mind.

My other recommendation would be Warhammer ancient battles. Whilst some might baulk at the affiliation with Games-Workshop the rules are simple enough to learn (they are based on fantasy battle) and actually IMHO provide good enjoyable games (A major factor when playing any sort of game!)

As for clubs. Well in my time I have attended 2 clubs. 1 was very "clicky" and I never really felt welcome, 1 was very friendly and welcoming and I stayed with them for some time. So my advice would be to go along and see what its like with the added bonus is if they are of the 2nd type then they'll probably help you learn some rules and give advice on getting started.

Eek sorry about the essay - hope that was some of what you were looking for

[mrdun]

So is this like little figures on a tabletop created terrain?

[YAKOBU]

Yes it is.

[mrdun]

I remember doing something like that qith LotR characters. Pretty sweet but I did not have the patience.

[Northnovas]

Wow! It's been awhile but I think what is said in post #2 is what you need to know. Finding the rules that you can work with and make the game fun is easy. Finding the group to play with so you can enjoy your army is the hard part.
Hopefully the group you are looking at will work for the both of you.
Though I always found the other fun half of the hobby is building the army and painting them up. In this case creating you Legion. Having a little partner to help makes it all the better. Enjoy!

[Papewaio]

The Arena sometimes covers tabletop wargamming...

[King Kurt]

My tabletop wargaming was about 20 years ago when it was quite an active hobby. I really enjoyed it and for many years it was probably my principle hobby - I certainly spent a lot of money on it!! You can wargame all periods but ancients is one of the most popular. DBA is a good system - the rules are simple and a game can be played to a conclusion in an hour or so. The armies do not require a lot of figures, so it would be easy to build several. You can play DBA online - see - http://www.dbaol.com/ You can download the system and play yourself - or somebody else using the same computor (it is called a hot seat battle) It would be a good way to get an introduction to the hobby as well as trying out a few armies to see which one you like. It would also be a gentle introduction to the game for your 8 year old.
I would recomend going along to the club meetings - you will be able to see what is actually involved and maybe have a go before you start spending serious cash.
Finally be warned - this hobby can take over your life!! - when I was at most active I went to 2 club meetings a week, probably had 10- 15 weekends away gaming all over the country and most days usually had some sort of activity painting figures, reading rules, doing historical research etc. My wargaming came to an end when I meet up with my wife - opened up a whole new collections of things to spend time and money on!! ironically my attraction to MTW has been that it is the closest PC game to tabletop gaming I have come across - with no painting and a brilliant campaign system.Also you can game straight away - no set up required.
So have a browse around the web - there is loads about the hobby in all sorts of places

[econ21]

My other recommendation would be Warhammer ancient battles. Whilst some might baulk at the affiliation with Games-Workshop the rules are simple enough to learn (they are based on fantasy battle) and actually IMHO provide good enjoyable games (A major factor when playing any sort of game!)

Yes, you might even consider Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Originally, I wanted to get into historical wargaming with my son but we settled on WFB as it caught his imaginaton and also met my need for a tabletop wargame (which WFB is). Kids like it because there is a vast range of miniatures and they are all on display in the high street. The rules are rather solid, IMO (although not as good as Total War), and aesthetically the models are superb. Probably the most important aspect of the hobby for us so far has been the collecting and painting/modelling. I would only get into it if you appreciate those elements - if it is just gameplay you want, then stick to computers. Maybe the gaming will become more important as my son matures.

[macsen rufus]

Please don't feel I'm trying to divert you from the tabletops, but can I shamelessly suggest a certain mod for MTW It covers late bronze to early iron age, 1280BC to 700BC, on a modified whole-Europe map, now with two added campaigns for Punic Wars and the conquests of Alexander. Follow the links in the sig if it takes your fancy I have to admit, a lot of the DBA/DBM websites have come in very handy for research and ideas for the mod...

I was never really disciplined enough for tabletop games with my hordes of Airfix figures as a youngster, but I recall certainly half the amusement to be had was in the painting of them. I had all sorts - Napoleonic (real fun to paint...), WW1, WW2, ancient Britons, even 7th cavalry. I'm sure the appeal remains for 8yr olds today as it did back then

[William Waller]

I have wargamed with figures since I was 12 years old. I am now 49!

I first started Napoleonics using Airfix figures and then moved onto the English Civil War my favourite period. I still have a 15mm New Model Army.
I also have a Norman and saxon Army.

However I now live in a small cottage in Norfolk England with my wife, my Gundog and my wifes Lurcher dog (For Lurcher read "I run like a lunatic on my walk then become a professional couch potato for the remaining 22 hours")

Therefore I really have no room for a wargames table that can be set up and left. Thats why I love the Total War series. I can game in my favourite periods with campaigns thrown in!!

Can I suggest that you also look at "Field of Strategy". This is a free downloadable wargame that covers Medieval, 18th Century, Napoleonic, WW2 and modern era. It is both strategic and tactical. Napoleonic and War2 have campaigns.
As I say it is free. The graphics are not going to set the world on fire but the game play is superb. It can also be played "Hotseat" against the computer or via internet. Well worth looking at. Search the title on a search engine and you will find it.

As to the War Hammer Rules I use the War Hammer English Civil War rules and they are very good. Although I have drawn up a system of my own which I use.

[YAKOBU]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your comments.

I e-mailed the wargaming club but no reply. They have a meeting tonight so I will turn up and check it out.

I'm not very artistic so wouldn't really have an interest in painting my own figures.

I hadn't played Total War in a while but a friend has got me playing a Goth's Mod 2-player PBM for BI. That may revive my interest in the game.

[Kekvit Irae]

Personally, for table-top (strategy) gaming, nothing beats a game of Mordheim. It's Warhammer Fantasy in a much smaller squad-level scale. Simple enough to get newcomers interested and for veterans to transition to WHF or WH40k. Plus I've been working (on and off) on a WWII conversion ruleset for the game, since the ruined cities would be perfect for a squad-level Stalingrad battle.
As far as historical games go, DBA is fun, but there's really no variety in units. A unit of Hundred Years War Blades is the exact same as a unit of Early Roman Republic Blades. Still, it's really the only game my father plays frequently, so it's all good.

[YAKOBU]

Just an update.

I went along to the wargaming club Wednesday but wasn't totally impressed. 6 guys were having a gladiatorial battle which didn't interest me. 2 others were having a WW2 battle which was a little better. Aside from that not much happened.

I have looked into DBA which may be ok for my son but it is too simplified for me. DBM looks a little better but the armies get more expensive. It does seem to cover differences in quality of troops though.

I received a DBM book I ordered today and the Roman army list changes every 100 years nearly!! That restricts the period you can use that army for.

I have checked out the Essex Miniatures site which looks good. You can get a DBA army painted and based for about £120. That may be a starting point.

[CountArach]

Yes, you might even consider Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Originally, I wanted to get into historical wargaming with my son but we settled on WFB as it caught his imaginaton and also met my need for a tabletop wargame (which WFB is). Kids like it because there is a vast range of miniatures and they are all on display in the high street. The rules are rather solid, IMO (although not as good as Total War), and aesthetically the models are superb. Probably the most important aspect of the hobby for us so far has been the collecting and painting/modelling. I would only get into it if you appreciate those elements - if it is just gameplay you want, then stick to computers. Maybe the gaming will become more important as my son matures.

I second this. WFB is great - I have been an active player for the last 5-6 years and have had some great times with it. There are a lot of gamers out there, and a lot of tournaments where you can go to play the game competitively with fellow hobbyists, some of the most fun experiences I have ever had.

Recently I have start 25mm Napoleonics, using the Shako rule set, which is also a lot of fun. I'm still getting used to it though.

[Horseman]

As i mentioned in my previous post in this thread, some clubs are better than others!

Might be worth doing a search on the net for any other active clubs in your area.

As for the DBA/DBM thing, as DBA is basically a simplified version of DBM (well the other way round really as DBA was here 1st!) once you have your 1st 2 armies for DBA (1 for you and 1 for your son) you can start playing and then expand them from there to create DBM armies.

With the added bonus that it breaks your son in gently at 1st and then the DBM rules aren't that much more compex.

And I second the Mordheim idea, it really is a great game, though as mentioned to me it is a skirmish game rather than a war game.

[puklo]

Hi. I'm new here. (Nice to find out you're also here, MrDun.) Yes, I've seen a few magazines featuring wargaming figures. Nice paintjobs some of them, others are good bases to express one's art, modifying them, painting them, maintaining a pet army of figures, and other stuff. Unfortunately, there is no wargaming club anywhere near our place--the nearest thing to it were a few teenage people playing Magic the Gathering (you know, the one with the cards and stuff) and pushing some metal or plastic fantasy figures on the tabletop after some draw of cards, measuring the advance or retreat meticulously by the millimeter. But my point is, isn't playing Total War (maybe yours is RTW or M2TW, mine is MTW) just like wargaming? With a plus factor that you don't need to memorize rules nor require an umpire or arbiter (the PC automatically does the referee-job) as you battle? Nice for you to introduce your 8 year-old kid to the pretend-battles (on the PC or the wargaming table). That should teach him (her?) a sense of history. Me, as I do Total War, I'm learning a lot of history, and getting thirsty for a lot more. But I'm sorry I have no chance to experience what fun and thrills you enjoy with wargaming on the table.
Bye-bye, all you good people.

[Horseman]

Dont let the lack of a local club distract you, the best "club" I have been a "member" of is the 1 that me and lke minded friends formed.

Its not really a club just a group of friends who get together now and again for a game (as well as other things of course) so all you need to do is convince one of your friends to take up the hobby

[Garnier]

I have done some tabletop wargaming with miniatures, but I found the rules very poorly done and gameplay was not streamlined or realistic. When a game takes a lot of tedious time to play but the results are not realistic, I dislike the game.

I play boardgames, the two greatest boardgames of all time (IMO) are the Charge the Guns variant of Napoleon in Europe, and the Enhanced variant of Axis and Allies Revised.

[YAKOBU]

Hi everyone

Just an update on the tabletop front.

Huddersfield which is a local town to me has a wargaming club but it is not open to new members at present due to lack of space. They did have a one-off event yesterday which I went along to. It was for DBMM and I got to look after 1 command. My commander-in-chief threw the dice and I always ended up with low pips. They seemed a good crowd and I did enjoy the game so I will try and meet up with them again.

I have signed up to Ebay in the last few weeks and it is a good source for tabletop armies. I have 1 lady buying and painting a 12 element DBA Early Imperial Roman army for me for around £50. I also managed to buy two 12 element Early Imperial Roman infantry commands for £20 each which have arrived and the painting is good. I am looking out for other additions to my Early Imperial Roman army as well as hoping to get some opponents for them.

I tried out DBA Online but it didn't have the same scope and size as what I experienced yesterday. I also only got 3 bounds before my mentor stopped responding and the internet site has little traffic.

If people don't mind I will continue to come on the forum and update this thread on how things work out.

[Horseman]

I certainly dont mind

Good job finding a friendly club, I'll keep my fingers crossed that they get an opening for you soon.

Glad to see a knew convert to table top wargaming, it is fun

[King Kurt]

With DBA online, I found the best thing was to do the hot seat battles where you play both sides - even better if you want to play with somebody else. I used it a lot about 3 or 4 years ago. A game only takes about 20 minutes. It is good for trying other armies and practicing the rules/ tactics. I must admit I never took out a subscription but I enjoyed while I was playing hot seat battles

[Rhyfelwyr]

I've had a look at the DBA online site, and it looks great. I've always wanted to try a wargame, but with this I can do it on my PC.

Unfortunately, the DBA programme doesn't work for me. Downloaded the main version (1.11 with new maps), but when I load it on my PC I cannot click on anything when the screen comes up asking me to enter my details. Then I just have to restart my PC.

Using Vista with a GeForce 8800 graphics card. Any ideas?

[Tran]

Anyone here play WW3 simulation board game?

The Next War by SPI simulates Warsaw Pact invasion of Western Europe in late 1970's and it has several smaller scenarios if you want to fight on a smaller board/scale. Air, naval, amphibious operations are available. Terrific, in my opinion. Another interesting one is Warsaw Pact which offers three different year scenarios (I think it's late 1960's, 1973 and 1981) and the area covered is larger. However, on top of all WW3 board game, the Third World War series made by GDW is probably the most massive since the board virtually cover the area from the edge of northern Norway down to Turkish strait, with all countries visible on the board playable. Very addictive and enjoyable. The picture below explains for itself:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Viewer discretion is advised

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Linky

If you prefer computer over ol' big board, Flashpoint Germany is worth trying, its single player AI knows how to do the job well and can be quite frustrating, although there is also multiplayer mode if you want to fight against real human. Tiller's North German Plain '85 is also pretty good, however its AI is tad clumsy when compared to Flashpoint. You might also want to try Fulda Gap '85, or even Korea '85 if you are interested for WW3 fighting in the Far East.

And finally of course, if you want instant action within this board you can click the picture on my signature below and start playing as either NATO or Warsaw Pact player

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Shameless advertising, no?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Has anyone had a look at the Osprey 'Field of Glory' rulebook?

I've never tried a wargame before but this thread has got me quite interested...